Incels Discover Veganism: Celibacy and Ideology. @Wheat Waffles

we are in this video talking about sexual identity we are talking about the meaning of life how to have a meaningful life and how to have a meaningful life in which you're not living in a cave and bittered alone self-hating how to have a meaningful life as a member of society even if it's a society you despise even if it's a society that despises you and for a lot of us if we're really being honest sure a huge component of that is your sexual status it is your sexual life it may just be the one person you sit down and marry with it maybe your plan was to have just one person sit up down and marry with and you end up divorced you end up a widow life's full of uh surprises but sure you know who it is you love and who loves you who it is you respect and who loves you how you fit into any particular society one of the most tangible aspects one of the most important aspects one of the most painful aspects has to do with sexual identity sexual status and if any of you are having difficulty visualizing what i mean how would you feel if you had to migrate to pakistan right now and live in pakistan permanently for rest of your life there were people who were born and raised in pakistan watching this video who will nevertheless know exactly what i'm talking about your status in pakistani society right it's going to have everything to do with who you're married to like if you're a woman married to a man or a man whoever you are watching this video male or female right away you can visualize okay i get married into this family these are my in this is my extended family in pakistan right everything when you go to the market to buy vegetables when you go to the dentist right it's like it's not just about sex it's not just about the difference between getting laid and not getting laid having a social circle of friends and being forever alone or feeling like an insider and feeling like an outcast right your sexuality sadly tragically right it it both reflects you know how you fit into society as a whole and it also is how you fit into society as a whole now pakistan is is one thing i've i've been to university i am a university graduate i have also been back to university i i could go back again i'm not planning to right i've i've gone back some of you know it's a lot like pakistan like like you can understand my situation in this university how i fit into the microcosm the tiny miniature society of the university quite quickly and easily by discussing my sexuality right who loves me who respects me how do people treat me and who are the people i actually live my life with and know for some other guy that might have everything to do with getting drunk and hanging out at a bar and being in a dorm room or something and for me right it might have to do with going to the library you know for real real thought you know it's not one answer it's not one simple pattern that explains how you fit in the site or how you fail the fitness how you reject it but yeah what i'm hinting at here is no matter how relentlessly shallow the discourse about in seldom and the alternatives to in zelda are on the internet no matter how shallow the discourse about the black pill the red pill and the white pill may be i don't regard this as shallow and i'm not going to talk about it in a shallow way well say this even if you think it's a shallow problem the solutions we get into are really quite profound i'm going to play you a clip of a uh another youtuber youtuber very different guy for myself very different perspective on life very different philosophy a guy called wheat waffles why he chose that name i i can't tell you and notice what wheat waffles is doing here in my response to this i'm going to talk about sexuality but i'm also going to talk about atheism i'm also going to talk about nihilism i'm going to talk about the negation of the prevalent and defining beliefs in your sight the definitive beliefs in your society how we how we live with that um before i play this clip so just so that you're thinking of this as you as you hear it for the first time let me just say let if you have a friend who's a complete redneck a complete bumpkin and he says to you honestly so you become friends at work you work at a gas station together or something he's just getting to know you and he says to you look he grew up in the okapanoki swamp he grew up in the back woods or something you know he says look you know i've never really met an atheist before i've never really messed you know like can you tell me what life's over he says to you i can't even imagine like what your life is like because he's grown up totally in the church and surrounded by church people and so on that's that's been his life i've i've never really had that conversation off i've actually seen it on camera thanks to youtube i've seen some people having like well-intentioned conversations that where the the people who are really religious are saying they can't really imagine what life would be like religion well probably the easiest and laziest way for you to express what your life is like is to describe the world as if the religious experience is life in its totality and then within that subset right to describe the things that you negate so you could say to someone who's a devout christian out of the backwoods out of the out of the okapenong oh okapanoki swamp right you can say to this dude from the swamp well you know my life is a lot like yours except i'm not homophobic like i'm cool with gay people um i'm not gay myself but wouldn't be a big deal if i gave it a try sometime at a swingers party like whatever you can say whatever you want to say about that my life is a lot like yours except i'm not afraid of going to hell after i die you know you can you can negate some particular things you know my life's like yours i don't feel guilty about looking at porn or masturbating like these are the differences between between me like i'm taking your life as you know it this subset of what's really possible and what's really meaningful in life the life you're already living and then i'm just negating things within it right that's the easy way that's the lazy way to get across to someone who's christian someone who's muslim or someone who's like an orthodox jew what your life is like as an atheist and consciousness the greater challenge is to get them to realize hey this is the life you're living and this is what life can be and this is what it really is that actually my life as an atheist or my life as a nihilist right you're living in a very narrow you know your whole life takes place in this kind of narrow slice this tiny subset of what's possible what's thinkable what's meaningful what's actual for someone like me the reality is you're living a life where you're negating all the time all the things that i am open-minded to the things that i embrace the things that i experience the things that are thinkable for me but are unthinkable for you things that are imaginable for me that are imaginable for you that actually what's wonderful about my life as an atheist or as a nihilist is something you as a true believer can't imagine yet it's a very different kind of negation it's much harder to get across it's much harder to deal with face to face and we're assuming you like this guy we're assuming this guy's your co-worker at the gas station or whatever i know maybe you guys are in the in the paratrooper unit in the army or something together some reason why you guys get along and he's trying to understand your your perspective okay so i'm setting you up for it this way and now you can start to imagine if you want to contrast your view of the world to someone who has the in-cell mentality right are you going to work within their view of the world just negate things within that subset or are you going to try to give them that broader view and again i realize the term open minded in english it almost suggests a kind of stupid unsophisticated naivete right but we're talking about open-mindedness here in a sense uh frankly i don't have the words for i don't have the idiom for english language in fact in relation to this last one identity beliefs i have a great example from my own experiences showing this a couple years ago i used to work at this vegan restaurant and there was an extremely attractive girl who worked there soon enough i found out she was currently dating one of the male employees who also worked there this was to my utmost surprise because no disrespect but this man was at least 2-3 points less attractive than her they weren't even close to being on the same level at first i tried to rationalize in my head how this could be possible then suddenly i remembered a conversation i've had previously with another girl who was also vegan in this conversation i recall her saying never in a million years would she ever date a man who isn't vegan so back to the restaurant i figured this must be an identical case at hand later i did some research and found vegan women out to number men three to one so based on this ratio if we assume the majority of vegans only want to date others who share the same beliefs as them they'll inevitably be an imbalance working in men's favor an attractive woman may have no choice but to date a lower smv man if she finds all her looks matches are already taken anyway that's point three and now i've got these out the way now is a good time to press the like button and leave any thoughts you have in the comments below [Music] [Laughter] so a number of different things to respond to here i'm gonna i'm gonna get rid of the shallow ones first actually before i get into the more more profound critique so this guy's whole approach you will notice depends on an assumption of a um presumed to be objectively real scale from one to ten you know for how attractive people are and it is somewhat hilarious to me if you've watched any of his videos he gives examples of people like who we consider it's his own judgment who is a seven eight nine and ten i was like what are you talking about that woman you have is a seven she's a she's a ted she's better looking than the woman you have like where does this come from how do you think this is an objectively real judgment like all the time just for me and that in that moment you responded away so this is already one warning is how you know how is it you create in your mind these utterly self-serving subjective judgments and then and try to scientize them right try to render them into a kind of pseudo-scientific belief or fiction this is a significant danger in life obviously it's not just in this province we talk about this all the time so many people convince themselves that they have a biochemical imbalance in their brain that their subjective feelings from moment to moment they feel slightly depressed they feel slightly cranky they feel slightly anxious and oh no you know it's it's not just that they're lazy it's not just that they're depressed they're miserable they're inaudible you know there's a million reasons to feel this way it's not just that you had a fight with your mom this morning or you spent eight hours playing video games yesterday maybe you feel like crap today because you spent all day playing video games yesterday no no no it's uh it's a disease you can take a pill for and my point is people buy into uh pseudoscientific totally sweet generous subjective notions based on feeling right and they start to believe these things are objectively real and quantifiable so this guy he's completely committed to the idea that he can judge the difference between someone who's a seven eight kind of both both women and men he believes in his own judgment this way now on a pragmatic level my my argument against this is you say no everyone is either a 0 or a 10. now i think you can come up with other criteria but the grass sharing and the criteria i think matters to you the most how you live your life is am i willing to risk my dignity to go over and ask this person to have a cup of coffee with me am i willing to do that for whatever combination of reasons and it can be completely intellectual it can be you meet someone and you think they're intelligent you think they're interesting and you're like wow i want to ask them out for a cup of coffee obviously it could just be physical attraction it could be something else very often it's a combination of cultural factors you perceive this as a sophisticated person as an interesting person but you are willing to risk [ __ ] up your own life to ask this person to go to coffee with you yes no it's a binary right if the answer is yes you're going to put on the line you're going to risk the humiliation and there are many ways people can humiliate you today they can you can ask someone at the coffee and then they can immediately go on twitter and say can you believe this guy just asked me out the cop different consequences uh this could address some trivial some some not so true feel you know sorry like i used to we already mentioned the example of a university campus what if this person makes a complaint to you like oh my god this guy was hitting on me and asked me to go and no matter how reasonable you were someone else can give an unreasonable description of what happened and now you're sitting in the principal's office now you're dealing with you know you could be dealing with a restraining order bill got horrible consequences from taking this risk but sure the most common thing you're risking is just your own embarrassment just your own loss of dignity just feeling bad about yourself because you get rejected or the person is just perplexed they just don't get it like you know there's different ways they can respond uh negatively or disappoint that and here say something something i have more experience with because i i don't have a lot of experience injection what i've experienced with is you ask the person out to coffee and then the minute you're sitting down and drink coffee with them you're like oh i regret this where the person does go on a date with you and you're like oh my god you're really stupid you're a really horrible person that different kinds of regret so i'm just saying for your own sanity in your own life i think you've got to live by this credo that everyone is either a uh a zero or a ten now getting into the deeper aspect of this and you see this is a way to refute the incel worldview from within okay within your narrow view of the world which is really you know closing the door on this much broader range of meaningful experiences in life the things you can experience things you can do there are all kinds of things that are unthinkable to you that are thinkable to me there are there are possibilities and things you can do in your life you can't imagine and that i can i can imagine them and then i can also go and do them you can't right because of this in-cell view you're committed to but if i just want to take the lazy route and i want to refute your view from within okay so you have admitted that there are beautiful women who will be interested in me as a man because they're committed to the ethos of veganism veganism you know as a world view whatever because of this ideological commitment in plain english would you say it's a political commitment right so what you're saying is what people believe in what people are interested in what they care about who they are intellectually and ethically matters more than physical appearance hmm so you have just completely refuted the black pill view of the world you have just completely refuted the red pill view of the world without even realizing that's what you've done you've only admitted that it's true for vegans and the only other example he gives doesn't go into he actually gives a christian cross he just suggests this will be true for religious people okay guess what it's true for everybody all right everybody is committed to something right it may be much more despicable than veganism i knew a woman you got if you've been watching my channel long enough you know exactly who i'm talking about i knew a woman who was 110 mormon like she wasn't just an average mormon she was one of the people who took the time out of her out of her life to go on vacation and visit the different places the mormon prophet had like go and visit the holy sites she was like 110 true believer enthusiastic mormon she made youtube videos talking about the fact that there were several men who wanted to marry her and she rejected them because they weren't mormon enough they weren't pious enough they didn't believe what she believed she had better options and she went with this schlemiel instead and guess what she later lost her faith i'm saying the guy's a schlemiel because she she said some things in the internet publicly um they i forget if they actually got legally divorced but they split up for quite some time and she let us all know she wasn't happy with their religion anymore she wasn't happy with the man anymore that she that she'd settled down with sad story sad story right okay not everyone is vegan not everyone is mormon right but everybody is something including most pathetically of all you guys who are video game addicts right like you know think about it what do you spend more hours of the day doing playing video games or me being vegan like how many hours a day does being vegan take out of my life compared to you playing the elder scrolls or or rainbow seven or or counter-strike stop whatever this game is you're playing right how many hours does that take out of your life compared to my commitment to veganism or even someone who's really a religious mormon how much time and effort do you think they're putting into prayer they're putting into the work of being a mormon like it's might be a couple minutes out of the day might be a couple hours out of the day but like your commitment to playing video games as a video game is huge so i was having a conversation with melissa just yesterday that reminded me of this girl i'd forgotten about this girl we were talking about something totally different so i'm saying girl said she was like 21 young woman you know but i remember there was this young woman in my classes at university and she was she was attractive and she was nice we had some conversations and she'd come to class wearing this really nerdy video game addict merchandise you know and i was saying was i can't even remember what video games there were it was really nerdy stuff it was like pokemon you know she'd have a like 21 year old woman and she'd have like the backpack where the whole backpack is pikachu and again i don't even recognize all the video game characters right but like really nerdy really dorky video game like a button and the mur like the the shirt the sweatshirt and the reason i mentioned melissa was i remember how negatively i reacted to that right and like it's not a big deal like normally i'd be sitting there reading my book or doing like i'm sitting there taking notes from like i'm busy and i just kind of look up and notice her she's sitting down next to me or coming into the room saying oh but still in that half second i think you are a loser like what the [ __ ] is wrong that's our reactor like in that second right and what was saying to melissa yesterday was there must be so many women who react that way to men like the men don't even realize it like you know and again sorry that girl like i liked her she was a nice person like i just liked talking to her we talked about miss miscellaneous stuff right like i have reasons to be positively inclined towards her but still like oh my god like in that moment you're like what is wrong it's just the sense of like disgust and revulsion right now look it's that's the genders being what they are with me being male and her being female to a much greater extent right women are going to be reacting to negatively men who are video games but of course there are some women who are going to react to you negatively because they see that you're a bible thumping christian like they were sophisticated urban uh agnostic or atheist kind of woman and they see you there with your with your bible or where you may be wearing a t-shirt or something that identifies the christianity that way they some women are going to react negatively to being vegan some women would react negatively to you being muslim or hindu or some other religion too right like whichever category you're in whichever camp you've signed up to women can respond negatively and reject you for that reason but sure the video game thing most of all and the reason why i'm giving this example is right how many guys at that university when they saw that that girl because she was attractive she was good looking how many guys were like desperate to seduce her and responded really positively because they're like here's the one girl who will accept me because i'm a video game addict too right how many guys like came up like hey wow is that a pokemon sapphire backpack that's that's really great you know hey i'm on level 75 of pokemon sapphire what what are you like you know there must have been guys like who outnumber me like there must be like a hundred guys at the university who see that she's a good looking and just a nice person generally there's just nothing wrong with her um like you know she was some women like you can be really mean or cruel or something this nice person have a conversation with how many guys are gonna see this is my one chance at love with someone who will accept me in the same way that like you're mormon and meeting someone else who's also mormon like they're compatible with me with my beliefs right so let's let's fill it out here they're compatible with who i am intellectually they're compatible with who i am ethically right that that really matters and this dude who identifies wheat waffles he identifies as the most cynical black pill extremist where he's saying all that matters is your appearance how handsome your face is how good your body is for both men and women that's what it all comes down to right but he's inserted this exception for vegans and in this sense we're all vegans everyone's a vegan he says vegans will lower their standards like a vegan woman will be able to be with a relative relatively ugly guy because he's vegan also because ethically because intellectually right because in terms of interests they're on the same page and what i'm saying to you is in this sense everyone's a vegan even if you don't know it yet you're committed to something you're interested in something and that matters to you more than these differences in cells obsess over like the exact shape of your brow ridge the exact shape of your nose the exact shape of your chin um you're willing to fall in love with someone whose nose is twice as big or whose nose is half as big whose jaw is slightly less appealing or more appealing right if you just turn around and think about it inversely you'll know how true that is if i present you with the most beautiful woman in pakistan but she's a conservative muslim and in order to be with her you have to get along with her and her whole extended family like you're going to have to become a conservative muslim too you're going to have to join in that whole social circle and adopt her values and she's going to raise your kids with her set of beliefs principles right all of a sudden you start getting real sensitive to the incompatibilities between you no matter how how attractive she is right so that's refuting the in-cell mentality black mentality red pill mentality from within and it's already hard enough but i'm saying that's the easy way that's the easy road okay don't melissa do you wanna i can i can read comments in the audience none of you have hit thumbs up because you're cowards you're afraid to hit thumbs up with a video that has in-cell in the title you've got 30 35 people in the audience approx and only eight thumbs up because you're terrified of where this conversation is going to go next oh if you guys have something intelligent to say now's the time to type it out and say cause i'll pay attention but this is not gonna be a long live stream gonna wrap it up melissa you anything you wanna you wanna add on the mic no it's just i i totally relate to the topic right of course if you and i were not together i would i would be uh hard-pressed to find another vegan that you know i'd be interested in so this this relationship is an example too now okay um just to briefly digress again the one to ten scale it's a totally self-serving function you want to say i'm not saying nowhere in the world but i'm just saying like oh yeah finding a vegan man the struggle is real oh of course of course doubt um okay there are people who write to me as if i'm a two out of ten and melissa is a 10 out of 10. there are people who are like no seriously like there were some people who perceive us that we're like geez man like you're old and ugly and how did you get with this hot chick like there were people that's how they perceive us but trust me there are people who write to me and see it the other way around like as if melissa is a two out of ten and i'm a ten out of ten there have always been people writing into the channel men and women who are like dude you have options like why do you gotta be with this chick you could be with and you know what i don't even have to fill in all the blanks you have all these other options right now my point here is not to say one side or the other is right it's to emphasize how subjective those judgments are okay but let me tell you so whether or not you think i'm a catch doesn't matter it's really subjective to some women i am a 10 out of 10 and that's how that's what my experience has been in life like when you look at the criteria these guys use for what it means to be an eight out of ten what it means to be attentive down like the criteria they use are like like if you're an eight women will cold approach you out of the blue and like if you're a 10 women will cold approach you even when they're already married to someone else like risking their marriage and [ __ ] up their whole they'll take risks like to ruin their life to try to try to be so well that's been my experience my whole life now i'm not saying all women treat me that way but like all my life teenager 20s 30s 40s like they're of like the criteria these guys are using right i've had that experience all my life and like to me this is all meaningless at the same time how many million or billion women are there who find me totally unattractive but to some women i'm a ten that's my point is that it's really subjective right um and those women too right like it's the same thing so we're just talking about really briefly but like i can sympathize with the position they're in there are these women okay let's say it's a woman who's vegan and an intellectual and all her life she's want to be with a guy who's a vegan intellectual let's say also cares about politics like that's what she wants just hypothetical right and she's married to a guy who watches football on tv every night for two and a half hours he watches football and then he watches the football news espn sports center and she's sitting there every day thinking this is not what i wanted my life to be like this guy eats meat in front of me he drinks alcohol in front of me and watches the sport like she's just sitting there every day thinking this isn't what i went to college for like like you know and maybe the guy's hot maybe he's a great like maybe that's why she chose him maybe he's really attractive guy and every day she's ringing her hands thinking wishing she could get with a guy like me like it's tragic it's horrible and that that's just a woman who's perceiving me for it i am because i am i'm vegan i'm intellectual i care about that's true but you have to realize women also fantasize like there are women who will look at me and whatever their three criteria are they will imagine that i i satisfy the crutch and like it ain't me babe it's just made up in their own head so that that's the other thing is whatever actual redeeming qualities you have as a man if a woman likes you or is interested in you she can just totally make up in our own mind what what so that's you know my view of it is i don't think the zero to ten scale or the one to ten scale i don't think it's real i don't think i don't think it exists um but look suppose someone asked the question we're gonna ask both ways someone asked the question how is it possible for me to get with a woman who's so much more attractive than i am like someone who perceives it like i'm a two a two out of ten melissa's a ten out of ten so it's okay so how did you pull this off like how did i seduce her how did i make her fall in love okay legit question unless someone else simultaneously again i've had people say this kind of stuff someone asked questions okay well how did how did melissa seduce you how did this girl who's only a two out of ten seduced guys okay so both both perspectives exist and both are totally subjective and kind of unreal though both both perspectives they'll reflect something about the person making the judgment you know like that's that's what it's going to reflect um okay i can tell you right now the way melissa seduced me is that she read my [ __ ] essays she read my written work period so like there were so many hot chicks at my university including women in their 30s sorry this is canada university is cheap here unlike the united states it's got generation generation x gamer in the united st you know tuition here universities are crap but your whole life would have been different if you went to a country where tuition was cheap as opposed to the united states of america where everything's fifty thousand dollars a hundred thousand dollars it's ridiculous okay but in canada because it's canada you meet people in the thirties stuff it's not all it's not all young people on campus um okay and there were there were women who hit on me the women university the women who wanted me on the university campus right did a single one of those women read my work and then come up to me and talk to me about my my written work like my publisher never now look i'm not saying now some woman's gonna watch this video and try to seduce me on some woman's oh i figured out the combination to the safe right i'm just saying that's going to get you a cup of coffee with me it doesn't mean we're going to get married or fall in love but oh okay but like think about implicitly what qualities those women were lacking because they didn't do that now each woman is a totally different story not generalizing here but yes at this university there were women who worked out at the gym probably three days a week right and they wore skin tight yoga pants to class university every day like different universities here but you were surrounded by spandex at the university of victoria at that time doesn't matter it's freezing cold spandex you know bare midriff in zero degrees that's universal victoria the girls they're there to compete so they're all these women who work on their body and wear spandex right and a lot of those women it has never occurred to them oh if you want a high quality man if you want a man who satisfies your criteria for what you're looking for you might have to read a book you might have to read his book you might have to read the essay he published and then think about how easy it would be for a woman like that to approach me woman could walk up to me like i've never noticed her she's been in class i never [ __ ] noticed her she noticed me walk up and say hey you know i read your your essay about like communism in china but the history of of comedy yeah man that's you know oh okay let's have coffee and then whatever i mean once you have coffee maybe nothing's well like but okay but this is my point the point is not okay this is the combination of safe like there are qualities melissa already had implicitly that led her to do that and that were demonstrated by that like it's not like you could just take some other girl and talk her through the technique cynically of how to seduce me and that she can then read the essay and and get into bed with me it's not like that right like who she is was demonstrated just by the fact that she read that before she talked to me and then we had a conversation about it right like there were and again we had a super high commitment relationship and put years of our work so on and so forth right now having explained it that way so much like i feel like i don't have to say a whole lot about flipping around the other way obviously like okay melissa does find me attractive we are totally sexually compatible she is attracted to me on a carnal lust shallow level as it happens if you think she's crazy write a book about it what can i tell you but she does she is one of the women not all women me trying to she is one of the women who finds me uh physically attractive okay but obviously right there's something similar there where there are qualities i have there are characteristics i have that are demonstrated i mean veganism is kind of like the smallest of them there are all kinds of guys who are vegan for the wrong reasons she would not have been interested so look you would have never been attracted to john venus john venus was vegan at the time he's a bodybuilder right he's the wrong kind of vegan right he's not an intellectual he's not smart of you you would have never been attracted to vegan gains to richard never vegan vegan for the wrong way is wrong you know what i mean no we could do a whole list like there were so many vegan youtubers like and you it's not that you could have had a crush on them right you know joey carve strong there you go right and a lot of these guys they may be they may be like objectively better looking than me like in some like they you know if you're just doing it that way right but the point is so for melissa she did read my written work but even obviously what she could see on youtube like who i am is being is being demonstrated here so yeah she knew i was exactly what she was looking for in a whole bunch of different ways you can make a long list of the characteristics right and for me just that one thing because melissa didn't have a youtube channel i couldn't watch her videos listen right and guys sorry again i'm not this is not bragging but the reality of my life for like about two years before melissa came into it there were a lot of women coming at me a lot and a lot of those women not all they they had a youtube channel or a podcast or they at least had instagram or something where you can see their life you can get to know something about them and again a lot of these women they were very attractive but you can see well this is a woman who's never going to read my written work never gonna read my book never gonna read my essay and if she does like if you drag her into it right never gonna appreciate it never understand so brief digression on that but a deep one a lot of these guys including wheat waffles himself so this video is partly a critique of we models um they speak really positively about geomaxing right they speak really positively about flying away to thailand and then trying to get married to a woman there right now it's also interesting that they primarily use thailand as an example what about malaysia what about indonesia what about saudi arabia what about pakistan but even what about japan what about communist china right what about ukraine right now right it's what about russia you know and on a deep level this fantasy that a better life is available for them by marrying a woman in in thailand it's based on the assumption that the woman is going to change everything in her life for you she's going to completely conform to who you are and that you aren't going to change your life for her now i've met all kinds of white guys who married thai women cambodian women lotion women i've known some of them known for years and stuff okay you go to thailand you learn the thai language you start getting drunk with her father and her uncle like you guys sit down and drink together you start watching different sports and listening to different music and you sit and watch tv with her mom while her mom is weaving you have dinners again with her mom or dad her brothers and you know her brother maybe an alcoholic and her brother maybe this maybe that you got to get along with her brother you are integrated into an extended family whether that's in thailand laos cambodia or whatever it changes you my dude and all kinds of things um yeah yeah yeah so gen x gamer has some experience with thailand i was wondering if you'd see me in thailand i'm going back to thailand bro i thought we thought we'd meet up there that'd be an interesting trip a video collab between uh belacio and gen x gamer in thailand but apparently it's not on your schedule he's mentioned what he's what he's doing next couple months anyway um you know okay if you think this won't change you it does including things like video games including like shallow habits that may actually mean a lot to you like your life may revolve around playing video games if you don't admit it yourself and your life may revolve around being a mormon or being a christian or you know or being a vegan and you you're making a choice there where you're actually sacrificing a lot to marry into a thai culture and i think you can repeat this for most for most uh culture around the world so yeah um [Music] that fantasy i think this speaks a really dangerous delusion that frankly leads men to just lower their standards like so again okay again not boasting the women who were trying to seduce me immediately before i got with melissa and there have been women after i got with my like there have been women more recently than that um was melissa the most attractive woman who hit on me on this like scale of one to ten no no there were there were better looking women okay but my sex life is not about sleeping with the most attractive woman possible with the best looking woman possible with the highest social market value it's not right my sex life is about my life it's about leading a meaningful life 24 hours a day seven days a week and like obviously my sex life the woman in love with the woman i'm living with is only a part of that okay i'm gonna be a little bit vague here um i don't think any of these women would mind me talking with them okay were there women who were literally models working as models yes were there women who like were more broadly something more like a a dancer uh uh an actress like who did some modeling but you know was a little yes you know uh were there women who were youtubers of course you know um but but some of the most attractive women were none of those things like they were women who had a normal job but they were as good-looking as a professional yes okay but this is the thing sex you know you can't look at it with just a single stage of analysis it's not something that happens in a mirror it's not about uh it's not about hiring a model to promote your brand of soap if i've got a new brand of soap i'm trying to sell you just hire the model the best looking person who's going to make people want to buy that brand of soap i get that i'm looking for the person i'm going to go to sleep with i'm going to talk to you before i go to sleep the night person i'm going to have a meaningful conversation with over breakfast in the morning person where i'm gonna ask what are you reading and i'm interested in the book she's reading and what she has to say about it and her perspective even if i disagree with her that we have an interesting disagreement about the book she's reading and yes there were better looking women who came at me but none of them offered me that right and the point is vice versa tons of women this is what they're looking for in a man even if they can't fully eloquent they can't fully articulate they can't explain to you what these criteria are what the red flags are and what the green flags are that you know guide their lives and their their choices this way i'm sorry i was thinking about this the other day in reference to the gym so just shout out one other in-cell uh uh youtuber this guy declined so decline is this really depressed really down bad uh youtube incel and he's been making the effort now he's saying he's going to take steroids even he's going to the gym he's trying to become muscular he's trying to become fit that's his way out of his depression his self-hating in-cell path in life and obviously a lot of viewers are just happy for him that he's now positive motivated to try to improve his life in in some way but like when you take the intellectual and ethical component out of it once you start really spending time in the gym and i could see this a lot in high school there were guys in my high school gym this is also true as a middle-aged man at the gym it's true at every gym but in high school i remember really seeing this there were guys in high school who were way more muscular than me who were much more of the chad stereotype than me and a lot of these guys were italian a lot of them were hispanic uh in my i didn't know black guys in that category just in my particular cohort or whatever i did know a lot of black guys in high school i knew black guys who watched star trek i knew some black guys who were you know the the nerd stereotype just saying not all not all people fit this kind of stare at that but you know um but like you got a good looking italian guy handsome face muscular works out of the gym plays sports watches sports on tv and i remember the girls so we're all the same age in high school they were afraid of those guys those guys were trouble and they were a lot of them were violent a lot of them were really struggling with violent issues violent tendencies you know i don't know why i don't know it's because their parents beat them as a kid i know it's because they're getting into fist fights with other guys i don't know like you know you have to know them more personally but they were guys who were unhinged violent already drinking alcohol already have problems like at that time was mostly alcohol and cigarettes you know maybe marijuana like in high school you're not yet dealing with cocaine or not at my high school you know what i mean not yet the more serious drugs but like you could really see there were women who like even if i am half as attractive oh wait sorry the other thing you said with these guys they couldn't have a conversation with you like they really spoke in sentence fragments and this is high school it does get a bit different from the middle age guys in the gym they're a little a little bit better spoken a lot of guys in high school are very inarticulate all they know how to do is play video games they watch sports on tv they lift weights they do the bare minimum on their tests at school like that's their whole life right this is the the hunk in high school that's we used to say hunk now people say chad you know but that was that and girls were afraid of them and kind of revolted by them and like a lot of women were throwing themselves at me at that time i was so young like looking for part of the story i'm still a virgin you know and i was very selective of what girls was interested in i mean part of this i'm a virgin and then then i wasn't anymore but i was not easy um yeah i saw with a very small number of women in high school and university but there are these women throwing themselves at me and like at this age the women like sir we're all not we're all young we're all naive they probably don't they haven't really thought through what they're looking for or why yet right but they just feel comfortable talking to me i would talk to them the same way i talked to a guy i wasn't hitting on them it wasn't for him they would feel safe they would feel like this is a guy who's not going to beat them up who's not going to get unhinged and fly off the handle and slap them around this guy is not going to get drunk and get out of control like like the things implicitly they're looking for so if this guy declined if you start spending more time at the gym what he's going to find is there are a lot of really good looking guys with a lot of muscle and women reject them women reject them too and those guys yes they may be able to have some one-night stands they may have this they may have that they may have other advantages in life but there are a lot of guys and i'm sorry there are i don't i don't want to even describe these guys because it'll reveal who they are because of youtube well partly partly because the way i live my life i've known quite a few male bodybuilders i've had male bodybuilders who are my friends and talk to me and dude they're i've known these male bodybuilders and their sex has been horrible it's been horrible for decades uh so one guy just came this totally anonymous but i remember him saying that for like 10 he was vegan he's a vegan bodybuilder and he was he had a very handsome face i would you know i would say he's basically a 10 whatever but you know it's it's subjective but he said the only woman who'd sleep with him would be married women just having a one-night stand with him cheating on their husband he couldn't get any kind of meaning for election these women were staying away from him and you know probably some of these other factors were there he was he was a bit of a stereotypical uh stereotypical dumb guy who have a comment from the audience quote you want to change the title of this video too in cell phone with facts and logic [Laughter] so babe do you wanna do you wanna jump in you wanna say anything now so you just have a thoughtful spurs in your face i mean welcome yeah yeah it's up to you just were you yeah we're in the middle of you're talking about this guy at the gym i'm always in the middle okay sure well yeah i was just gonna say i think what the guy at the gym doesn't realize is and what he'll start to meet face to face are other guys who are in great shape guys who are very attractive but who still have all these uh problems or more and worse here's come a little bit closer to so go your yeah yeah i guess what i've been thinking about um the last few minutes um was just a conversation that we had recently about what people think of their romantic relationships but um also friendships in terms of um what you need in your life so now you were talking about some women that were interested in you prior to us getting together um i was thinking you know what you said about my sex life being my life you know it's not just about um my sex life it's also about how does this person play into my life and how can i play a role in their lives um so i won't name names but like you know it's just how many people really can be a part of your life in that way like how many people right involved with something like in a specific location that keeps them there like you know whether it's a family issue whether it's uh their job is location specific like you know um maybe you'll find somebody maybe there'll be somebody online who like uh for all these ethical reasons like you you have things in common but like they can't leave and you can't go there um you know i just think that's that's yes those kinds of constraints yeah and um also yeah just this idea of uh what do they need and what do you need and and um how is this going to be something that's not not going to detract from both of your lives how is a relationship with this person going to add actually okay but look i want to put a human face on it so i think you could have had john venus instead of me or some other dude equivalent to john penis okay so again not just thinking about sex not just think about so you guys can see already i'm in okay shape for a middle-aged man i'm 43 uh i i do 200 push-ups a day that's the workout i recommend because i don't want to waste that much time at the gym yesterday i did 100 push-ups today i'll do 200 probably yeah how many i do from day to day varies a little bit how busy i am whatever well i'm in okay shape how many push-ups can john venas do you get you 500 like a thousand i don't know but like or her agenda in life is not to find the man who can do the maximum number of push-ups or is the max amount of of muscle mass think about what your life would actually be with jumping so john venus not an intellectual i don't i don't know if he reads any books i've never heard him mention a book but if he reads books at bed john venus believes in ufos believes in supernatural hippie spirituality and just what your life will be like every day so every day he wakes up he goes to the gym multiple times he's lifting weights he's doing bodybuilding he's shaving his chest and taking photographs of himself he's also to my knowledge his main business is coaching other people it's the other time he's on the phone or he's going to visit his work he's going and helping other people right exercise so like like even if you think john venus is more attractive to me which you don't right like so this is just think about one week of your life what your life is like with the this guy weekend without now i'm gonna have something else about jumpiness that i think is very telling it's true of a lot of the pretty boys a lot of good-looking men whether they are bodybuilders or not whether it is john venus or it is johnny depp history of addiction problems so i'm not putting words in john venus came out and spoke about this and he even spoke about just his struggle to deal with cigarette smoking and that he was still smoking cigarettes and he hid it from his wife like he would go and smoke cigarettes then he would gargle mouthwash or something but even cigarettes and alcohol whereas you don't want that no no i had enough experience right being in a long-term relationship with somebody who was basically a drug addict and lying to you about it and stuff too right and like for me if you think about the female equivalent of joint you think about some woman who's really attractive and is a full-time fitness coach or something like that but these same issues believes in in crazy hippie spirituality ufos like someone who's intellectually soft someone who has addiction problems even if it's just cigarettes alcohol marijuana or something like it's not even uh and we don't know what john venus i believe his position is he's never used steroids we don't know i mean steroids or testosterone but like my point is obviously for me also i judge a woman in that way and yeah you know look at this even if people aren't aware of it of course this is the reality of people yeah yeah no i mean and i'm trying to get to the very fundamental questions here with the um in cell discussions online and why is it obviously um a mass phenomenon that people are talking about in seldom and um not it's not even it's not even that like it's in general the topic of relationship advice and maximizing your your potential yeah self-improvement um you know how much of that is for yourself and how much of it is for other people right um you know there there's just so much on advice online and i think a lot of people are doing these things in order to um you know attract another partner and or you know attract whoever they want into their lives and um yeah and this getting to the heart of the matter um of of why it is that these people think that it's it's hopeless because of their what they were the bone structure that they were born with right like where fat deposits on their body and like how much muscle they can build um gym maxing and this kind of thing as opposed to these uh ideological um right yeah yeah no i i ideological intellectual ethical and emotional and emotional absolutely okay so the other thing is you know um for both women and men but in our culture this is more obvious with women for both women and men we struggle with a sense of powerlessness in our lives people want to lead a better life people want to lead a different life than want to make a change what can they change most of us can't go back to college like sorry for real i've heard gen x gamer say i would say this you know talk about how your life could be different it could be better if you had a different career different kind of education or whatever well most of us can't change that can you get a new job some people can some can't you know and partly it's your own psychological makeup you know okay like you work at a you work as a nurse at a hospital can you quit your job and be a construction worker can you like there's a sense in which you can like you think you can get hired but can you actually endure what it's like to work in construction when what you're used to is being a nurse you know for any for any field so like can you change um okay what can you change about your life and notice i'm saying change not improve maybe it's going to be worse but so many people are living with a sense of powerlessness hopelessness futility that wants something to change the one thing they can change is their sexual partner right and it's it's tragic more often than not right and i know that's why a lot of married women cheat on their husbands i'm just being real i think men and women have the same problem i just think with women it's more visible in our society right and yes that is partly because women expect the man to provide financially it may be a completely false expectation it may be untrue nine times out of ten right but like the reality is for me in my life so you guys know i'm divorced my first wife was in a phd program at cambridge university right so when i uh look we were de facto married from we like was high commitment when we first started dating when she became my girlfriend and became my wife everything in my life changed everything option i can say it's joy now whoever you are if you're a dude if you divorce the woman you're with now and get married to a woman with a phd in anthropology everything's going to be different in your life right well again it's more visible or more transferable more transparent it's more obvious with them because there were women who were they're women who come out and say openly they want to break up with their husband and marry a basketball player because then their whole life their women's they want to break with her husband and marry a guy who works in the stock market it's a stock broker they want to break up with their current husband and be with a medical doctor whatever the fantasy is right and again it could just be they want to break up with their husband and get with a guy who doesn't watch sports on tv who isn't a lazy drunk who spends time they want to be with a guy who's of a different intellectual caliber different ethical caliber different emotional caliber some of those qualities too like my point is it's not always just money or status or fame or something that they're that they're chasing but when it is women tend to be more open about it's more openly discussed they're saying all that stuff goes on with men all of it and in a sense it's a little bit worse with men because with men they're normally pursuing younger women whereas the women will be pursuing men of the same age or older predominantly not always but but disproportionately that's the way the age the age gap goes so yeah my point is this sometimes sex is about sex i try to be sex positive a lot of the time sex is not about sex and i've got to say face to face when women come at me sometimes i can feel that where it's you know the woman doesn't want me she wants a whole new life you know what i mean she wants the solution to all her problems she wants guidance sometimes sometimes when they want a cult leader you know what i mean like they want a new religion um well look i don't think i'm special i think that's going on for a lot of men and a lot of women and you know again it's more shameful for a man to admit that about a woman it's much harder in our society for a man to admit that he pursued a woman he married one because he wanted to be a better person himself he wanted a better life right whereas it's easy for a woman to say like she chose this man because she wanted to step up she wants so that's that's a lot of what's going on okay uh oh so charlie donated five dollars for melissa getting on camera and he adds she is absolutely beautiful and stunning you're a lucky man we get both at this channel we get we get uh we get pro-melissa people we get anti-melissa people [Laughter] um yeah it's certainly difficult to imagine how different the channel would be today if melissa had never had never come into it she's had a subtle but pervasive issue from from the first week we were together remember we did a live stream very memorable live stream right at the beginning of the relationship when you killed kim all right um so look this is my conclusion about the video um it's easy to present your argument to someone who's committed to the in-cell view of the world by saying within the narrow range of your worldview this this and this are wrong to present yourself as if hey my view of the world my life what's meaningful to me is the same as what you believe in but negating this this and this like you know okay so you have these uh kind of woman blaming attitudes you have these attitudes that all women only care about appearances and money and status you have these kinds of very reductionistic attitudes towards women's motives whatever escape so so you're saying the person i'm the same as you but i'm the same as you except and again if you have a friend who's muslim and they say hey how's your life different as an atheist oh well i'm just like you as a muslim except i don't do this i don't do this i don't believe in this after that you know my life is the same as yours but without prayer and circumcision right and for the purposes of just one conversation right the same even with being a vegan if you tell your grandmother say you have a cranky old grandmother who is not really interested in hearing your philosophy or politics or worldview say oh well gee grandma my life is just the same as yours but when i eat cereal for breakfast when i have boxed cereal like shreddies for breakfast i don't put cow milk on it i put soy milk on it you know you can give this as this kind of you're taking a narrow world view and you're making it narrower through negation and what nihilism is all about is instead making your worldview broader through negation where it's like no no no this is the meaning of life for me whereas this is the meaning of life for you this is what's possible for me it's this grander all-encompassing worldview things are thinkable to me things are imaginable for me things are possible for me things are enjoyable for me and things are rewarding in the sense of being meaningful for me that won't be for you because you have this much narrower worldview and i think the art of making progressing from frankly a teenage perspective on the world to a robust mature middle-aged view of the world is learning how to engage with people on both that higher level of analysis and in a sense that more fundamental in some ways more shallow level of communication because you don't just want to get across to someone your life would be so much better if you could understand what i understand i want you to know that your life would be so much better if you could feel what i feel you