Money in Politics: Bite Size Vegan, Go Vegan World, Mic the Vegan AND YOU.

Banas yen now look I'm gonna keep it all
the way real I'm gonna keep all the real I have said things on YouTube that directly cost me money right where I lost patreon support immediately because I kept it real and so it was real I'm glad I said what I really believe said what I really thought so I can see that is a type of conflict of interest if you're a phony piece of [ __ ] who's not gonna keep it real look okay again I'll keep it real this is partly about YouTube in general this part of the book vegan activism in general most of which has nothing to do with YouTube and it's part of the book bite size vegan this particular example but I mean there's definitely a sense in which I would probably be making more money if I was being nice een ice with people I don't really respect and people disrespected me too by the way like like Ryan at happy healthy vegan right good luck so you know look so I mean I'm not saying he's a hundred percent wrong here I think there's a subtle and pervasive way in which the profit motive through patreon donations you know does change people's behavior I'm someone who's worked in the charity sector the nonprofit sector myself and so he's been fascinated by it my whole life I mean you know like I grew up in a family that fetishized the left-wing idea of revolution that the only kind of political change was through revolution and the charity sector is really like this sobering antidote to the revolutionary pretenses of the left-wing is a here's a way to change the world here's a way to take make the world place doesn't involve burning down buildings doesn't involve murdering people doesn't involve it in stuff and also doesn't involve like dissatisfaction getting worse and worse and worse getting more more pent up before the revolutions coming you know so I've been kind of fascinated by the the charity sector my whole life as an alternative to that revolutionary left-wing for you but I don't know why does he assume that people are fundamentally in denial about the fact that donations to charity include salaries they include wages they include cost deliver why why would they not but thousands and thousands of people volunteer their time every day guys while still working at a job and would never think of asking others for their hard earned money I think it does run counter to human nature to a deep yearning from instinct that this isn't what charity should be this isn't what politics should be even this isn't what war should be this should be a more authentic spontaneous heartfelt and amateur volunteer based engagement of these things and nine times out of ten it's not Banas yen so we got a few topics to discuss here in response to my old nemesis plant eats a believ plant eats is based in Toronto Ontario Canada I believe the collab is we just looked at his apartment to it I think it's in Vancouver [ __ ] is he damn good I'm not gonna collab with him right you're right you're right you're right you're right he did actually say in the subject line a million dollars and I said yeah don't tempt me okay these in Vancouver forget it we're probably never gonna be up the guy but whatever so I got beef with plant eats going way back we're gonna talk about some some interesting stuff here they're really two topics one yes set up a bunch of comments on Twitter about the question of charities this is these are brass tacks questions of political organization money charity work etc fundament the fundamental premise of people donating money to a political cause being called into question for my needs and then the second I'm really going to talk about it the question of Education and credentials you know what education credentials does Mike the beacon have what education credentials does vegan gains have what occasion credentials did Gary Yourofsky have or any of those any of those vegan leaders you know sometimes those question matters what education credentials is Donald Trump justified States this is the era we live in though right keeping keeping all the real I know in Obama's whole career I don't think his credentials helped him oh my god he was a terrible president anyway look we're screwed I mean you know the last series of presidents the NSA's have been so bad people now look back on Bill Clinton like he was a great all right anyway so it not tuppence video I think I think we can do both in this video because it's not not that much to say so look we've had a lot of fan requests for my girlfriend to do more talking but I don't really feel it's my role as a boyfriend to force her to talk she doesn't have an opinion on something like it's cool I think doing this instead of doing as a monologue me talking at my girlfriend she can jump in at any one time but you know I think it would be way worse it was like come on Melissa this is not radio broadcasting this is YouTube so just get over at people she'll talk if she wants to talk but I'm not gonna I'm not gonna force that alright so the first topic I raised with him was his claim that donating to patreon that if you donate to support a YouTube personality or YouTube vegan activist if you donate them on patreon that that is a conflict of interest so he said this in criticising he wants to take money out of the YouTube game why well okay look so the first question I said to him was does he really know the meaning of the term conflict of interest right so cobbling the meadows I mean it's just used in newspapers very often maybe it's used so off that people forget what it really means so if I have a conflict of interest it means like I'm a judge in a court case but because I have money invested in the stock market that will be influenced by the judgment in this court case I am NOT doing my job I'm being derelict in my duty well but it's a little more specific than even just being biased because you can be biased so that I'm in conflict of interest you can be biased just because you're racist you're angry call the defenders it specifically means I'm gonna be derelict in my duties I'm not going to do my job or I'm not going to enforce the rules because of some kind of investment some kind of interest some kind of benefit some kind of other concern which we have in government all the time I mean you know it's it's it's it's a real issue but ok if I ask you to donate on patreon either for straight-up political vegan activism or you know you name it for me just coming on YouTube and talking about my life whatever it is you know there's a lot of harmless silly stuff on YouTube and there's more serious you know roll up your sleeves put it whoa how would those donations just if so factor just by that fact just by the fact that I'm asked you to make donations how would that be a conflict of interest there has to be two separate interests in conflict there has to be one duty I'm being derelict in because of what your your donations now look I'm gonna keep it all the way real I'm gonna keep a little real I have said things on YouTube that direct cost me money right where I lost patreon support immediately because I kept it real and so it was real I'm on it said what I really believe somebody really thought so I can see that is a type of conflict of interest if you're a phony piece of [ __ ] who's not gonna keep it real which I'm not right so what one example is reminded of recently when I took a stand on the phoney cure for cancer controversy I took a stance supporting a natural vegan my old nemesis a natural vegan but I took a stand saying she was right in her criticism of a a not scientifically valid cure for cancer it's actually a cure for cancer that is illegal in the United States and people who want it crossed the border New Mexico and pay for it there because it's actually you know the gallon so this gives you a sense for that stance but my saying that I had a bunch of people cancel their donations and you know enough of them wrote to me saying that was why that it was it was obvious so that taking a stand that cost me money um look it's an open question so I have I have said insulting things towards happy healthy vegan I think we're deserved I think they were entertaining but I mean there's definitely a sense in which I would probably be making more money if I was being nice a nice with people I don't really respect people who disrespected me too by the way like like Ryan at happy healthy vegan right good luck good luck so you know look so I mean I'm not saying he's a hundred percent wrong here I think there's a subtle and pervasive way in which the profit motive through patreon donations you know does change people's behavior on YouTube if you're not a man of principle if you're not hung up on this ID I have about duty and honor and doing the right thing because the right thing to do yeah easily swayed to say one thing or another because of the donations then yeah that's a even if I was doing rap album reviews you know well if I give it out one negative review you know I mean like I think I think I would not really call that a conflict of interest yeah but also in the in the case of bite size vegan I don't see how she could have something like her videos are not right something that could be so controversial that she would lose money I think her content is educational it is through you know she researches the videos like crazy yeah so I don't it's boring as hell dummy I have zero interest in her content but I mean it's all kind of aimed at that 101 level of information but I don't know I mean if if this does influence their behavior you know the look okay again I'll keep it real this is partly about YouTube in general this part of the book vegan activism in general most of which has nothing to do with YouTube and it's probably about bite size vegan its particular example and plant eats as a particular example right uh I do remember hearing an interview with bite size Emily where she talked about her own past education she was one of those people who studied a mixed bag of things in university including Sanskrit generally too and then you know later decided to go into medical sciences and she dropped out of her medical science degree to do YouTube full time and she just talked about like look you know like she feels that weight on her shoulders she's got to make him enough money out of this YouTube thinks so you know I mean there's there's some truth to that but I think what you're talking about there is the profit motive pure and simple you're not talking about conflict of interest so I'm still gonna stick by this thing I don't think that is conflict of interest even though I still think it's really worth talking about in what ways is the profit motive change people's behavior on the Internet and what ways does it change it in politics I mean just recently I was saying direct action everywhere I think they're making these [ __ ] videos and uploading them about you know so-called so-called open open rescue you know and and there's money involved there's generating money from this kind of propaganda so they're the closest thing I've asked the EXCI for years to provide me with their actual budget and they'd never have years years and years way before I met you I've been asking them for that through you know active members and they've they've never been willing to provide a budget if you think they're open rescue project is impressive which many people do on not impressed but many people do would you be more or less impressed when you know that their budget for that is approximately two hundred thousand US dollars case that's the projected budget for 2017 so their investigations budget which I believe includes open rescue open rescue is the main showpiece of that it's not worth my breaking down these categories okay so two hundred thousand US dollars if that's what it takes to rescue two pigs and get into the headlines you know appear in on The Tonight Show I'm sorry I don't know if they appeared in The Tonight Show but you know the garlic that mainstream press okay a lot of people see that they click on the YouTube video they don't pay a dumb thing oh wow that's impressive I don't I'm not so easily impressed then you say hey guess what the price tag that was two hundred thousand dollars I think we could get more bang for our buck at City Hall so you have money matters money matters but it's not conflict of interest I mean it's it's really a question the profit motive pure and simple which is worth philosophizing about worth worth reflecting on whether it's direct action everywhere a bite size vegan or probably vegan gains or something you know vegan gains gotta pay that rent he's got horses man he's got hoarseness and topics and bunny rabbits man so he's got to pay those bills but anyway uh he needs to sit opened by the way if he's not making enough money from YouTube he will go back to doing health and fitness coaching at the gym kind of thing know that kind of stuff so personal trainer tips deficit good for him you know it's obviously it's great to sign a full pocket I believe I think he probably could make a good living doing that right next point I do agree about transparency and accounting but this is a huge problem with non patreon vegan charities to for example direct action everywhere pedda etc so in many cases there's no pretense that the patreon money is being sponsored is yes in response to him saying that bite size vegan should keep the amount that she earns that she's putting towards charity and separate that from what is paying her salary I remember that from Italy okay so that that was his more specific idea was it that she should account for how much of the money is going to salary and other types of expenditures yeah okay look I mean you know where does your money go when you donate money to peda or direct action everywhere good luck finding out and I'm someone who's worked in the charity sector the nonprofit sector myself and so what has been fascinated by it my whole life I mean you know like I grew up in a family that fetishized the left-wing idea of revolution that the only kind of political change was through revolution and the charity sector is really like this sobering antidote to the revolutionary pretenses of the left-wing who's a here's a way to change the world here's a way to take make the world place doesn't involve burning down buildings doesn't involve murdering people doesn't involve it in stuff and also doesn't involve like dissatisfaction getting worse and worse and worse getting more more pent up before the revolutions come which it which is part of the classical Marxist view of the world that things get worse and worse and worse and then there's this this collapse based on the analysis of France in 1789 primarily by the way really crappy one-sided analysis of what happened in France in 1789 but nevertheless anyway you know so I've been kind of fascinated by the the charity sector my whole life as an alternative to that revolutionary left-wing for you well it's like hey look here all these people and some of them are voluntarily donating their money it's the people that need it and some of them are less of a right-wing and some of them are not you know all kinds of different people try to do all kinds of different positive things yeah I remember we just recently looked up a chart for some reason how much money Americans don't use per year and it's significant it's massive America is generally a low tax high donation society whereas Canada is a high tax low donation Society has broad brushstrokes in stereotypes but yes some some cultures are more are more giving than others um it was this comes up under under budget headings but I guess I'll just stay on top of it for the moment I'm uncharacteristically I'll stay on topic right so look his complaint is about transparency so if you donate money to Greenpeace to right action every one of those how much do you deserve to know about how much they they what what they do with the money but where the money goes I don't know I think with most youtubers and with in my case I've never had enough donations to really have to account for things like that like I currently get 160 dollars a month in donations since I guess what guys it goes into my pocket but you know nothing else to say about that but for sure if you're doing fundraisers for a particular project or if you say look I want to go one attend a certain political conference you know I can imagine you want to break down this is this is how much you're gonna spend on airplane tickets to go to the conference this is you know how much you're going to spend the hotel maybe you do have to give give particular break no sir the one that wanted to open an animal sanctuary oh god yeah right Joe vegan right right that was real in his project collapse that's big money and big risk and big responsibility sure right and my situation is zero many reserve risk but look you know the one the one exception about Imagineer is I raised six thousand five hundred dollars in less than 48 hours for this Corps case and that case there's only one item on the list of expenditures so yeah went to the law firm and that story's gonna end the way it ends I mean I don't think that's gonna really go to happy ending but sure you know that there's a question of you know what do you spend these things on can you can you give an account of them but I to know why does he assume that people are fundamentally in denial about the fact that donations to charity includes salaries they include wages they include cost deliver why why would they not he only missed towards the end the video but he says the end of you his thesis is that these people should have full-time jobs and just to charity or two why why is that your assumption that that's not the way the nonprofit sector works at all you know I mean you you know sorry when I was living in Cambodia when I was living allowance I was part of the nonprofit charity sector when I was involved First Nations I mean the assumption was my career was gonna be a profiteer or was gonna be a for-profit involved with curry in a jib way or something you know I was involved with and talking to people was when I'm in yeah so for example when I was in Laos yeah right and in all those there's always the question of how much of your salary is actually donations how much is government money how much is taxpayers money that's the other that's the other thing in the nonprofit sector sure I do think some of my salary in Laos was paid for by the taxpayers of Belgium in Europe so because we're partly a government supported charity but partly also donors like you were paying my salary right but I mean I mean if you had it if you had a philosophical statement plant eats if you began by saying that he believes in a philosophy that own the only form of legitimate charity is part-time amateur charity that would be different you know his main point is that bite size vegan hasn't made a video in seven months so he's saying you know if you're getting these donations from patreon you should be putting out content and like where are the videos but you know I made this comment to you like she has so much content and I don't know what else she could do at this point looking at like with the type of channel that she has but she I know that she has been going to different vegan festivals like and I know that she's doing speaking she currently I didn't know that family well I'd okay I haven't looked looked into it but like when I was in the States back in March there was a veg fest in Michigan and she was one of the speakers she was doing live she's doing live gigs she's appearing places in person okay cool that's what I took from that I haven't like but you know I don't know if really she couldn't do much more on YouTube and um I'm sure the people that are on patreon know what she's doing and they can you know decide to stop donating to her they don't want anymore I don't really see it as like just a criticism of bite size vegan of Emily you know I mean I think like I guess it is disturbing to people like the professionalization of the army as soon as you have a class of people who are professional soldiers who are at any given time ready to make war that's something very different from maybe the myth of a defensive war that it's you know normal farmers and tax officials and merchants you know put down their tools and pick up weapons and run out to defend the nation no you have a standing army of professional killers who do nothing but right you know the morale well the moral quality of a war is different if it's amateur or professional and sometimes one side is amateur and the other side is professional the United States bombing Laos United States incredibly professionalized Army right and the other side yet lotion farmers try to survive with all these bombs falling on you know very unequal war believe it or not Laos was not bombing the United States there was no wasn't the case that they were sending airplanes over to bomb Washington DC at the same time not at all variation that's what that is what was called asymmetrical warfare right I think in the same sense I mean we we have a little bit of a problem with professionals ation of politicians we looked up a random that we're actually looking at a list of First Nations indigenous politicians in the United States and Canada history and one of them I clicked on the guy it said you'd get a synopsis of his career he started off as a longshoreman he started off working on the steamboats as a steamboat worker right loading loading cargo on and off of a steamboat in West Virginia and then he eventually eventually was elected to the Senate I said damn you know we don't have that kind of upward mobility in today's politics we don't have what was last time you heard about [Music] anyway look anyway I'm just saying you know we do have the kind of upward mobility in our society at the moment it's not common to hear about people becoming politicians or that kind of really low-level blue-collar you know work you know maybe one in a million you know maybe I haven't once most a long while anyway so the idea the politician is someone amateur of the people in the people so this is something something like okay maybe on a deeper level what he cherishes without examining it is the idea that YouTube activists and political activists generally or amateurs that they have a day job they're a waiter or a waitress and then in their spare time they just do politics and there's spare time they do charity work and they shouldn't be doing a professional let me tell you I mean that's not plantera that's not the world we live on as soon as I mean it's it's a small but significant some she's getting three thousand dollars a month I believe in donations that is enough just barely enough for you to quit your day job if you're a waitress or something and try to try to do this kind of nonprofit charity work full-time so I if he presented that as his philosophy first and foremost I would sympathize with his position more as it is I don't sympathize with it at all you know if he said like he has some kind of athenian of democratic philosophy that these people should not be professional politicians they should not be professional activists they should not be you know NGO nonprofit charity sector employees they should have a day job and then just do this out of civic virtue in their spare time but I don't think anyone has audience believed so I think that's a very rare view of the world in the 21st century well maybe it should be and maybe that's maybe those are ancient virtues were thinking about but then I mean just think about something as simple as going to a conference going to a speaking engagement if you've got a day job that's very very hard to do if you've got a day job you know if you've got a day job and kids you're really pinned down your ability to just do something as simple as that's alright there's a legitimate open question plant eats as to whether or not there's a gap between expectations and reality and other cases we pardon me when you don't extra protection everywhere for example are you comfortable with the fact that you're paying people salaries if not what did you imagine so again we were just looking at the budget the very informal unofficial budget the only thing resembling a budget from director never was actually a blog post and it's not a full budget it doesn't give you they they get real vague they get real defensive about the issue of paying people salaries I talked to someone who asked Wayne about this so Wayne is the dictator Wayne Siong is the self-appointed dictator for life of direct action everywhere and if you ask him about salaries he does not want to talk about it face to face so you get some really vague categories here fifty seven thousand dollars in direct expenditures twenty four thousand dollars in fellowship support so one of those are both of those our salaries our money going into people's pockets that they used to buy gasoline who'd pay rent and this is my point if there's nothing shameful about that why are they ashamed of it why not straight up say we paid 12 employees 20 thousand dollars a year each like these must be really low so I don't know you know I don't know what they're getting paid they're gonna need something I mean they're getting paid like fellowship support I'm gonna support your fellowship by giving you $20,000 yeah they're they're supporting someone's fellowship with money that's not a wage that's not a that's not a salary think about that and you know again direct direct expenditures what does that really mean so it's an interesting thing obviously plant eats on this issue there is a big audience the degrees of them there are many many people including people inside direct action everywhere who are not comfortable with the fundamental concept of collecting donations and spending those donations on salaries now in a sense I don't get it in a sense I do I mean if you if you donate money to petaa we're doing them buddies going one of the biggest jokes you know is the Academy in the United States oh you guessed it it's look up their form 990 they are a charity Oh charity the Academy Awards foundation I think it's just called the Academy Foundation their legal name and you know they have to give like the list of the salaries for the ten most highly paid people in the organization of stuff god damn I mean took this to call this a charity and you know and the money sorry the money poured in by the government the taxpayer support whoa screw you taxpayer taxpayer you American taxpayers do you realize your taxpayers dollars are going to give George Clooney a five-star hotel and like a five-star dinner he doesn't need George Clooney has enough without taxpayers that it's unbelievable it's unbelievable so you know it does matter I do think that you know if you're whatever charity running you need to have a statement of principle in your constitution like none of our employees will earn more than a hundred thousand dollars a year or me you know I don't know it depends gonna cheer - you like PCRM if some of your employees are surgeons maybe UFC look none of our employees gonna make more than $200,000 a year but if you want someone who's a full-time surgeon to stop working as a surgeon and come and do you know activism human Venus maybe you do have to pay them like 150,000 $170,000 maybe you have to pay a really high seller I don't know but you know you can have transparency about salaries when I was in the city Toronto from my perspective there was a political bombshell but Canadians just don't care they Canadians are lacking in those ancient Greek civic virtues we had a law passed that every employee of the city government who are in more than a hundred thousand dollars a year it had to be stated publicly what they said was oh my god the gravy train that was revealed it was nightmare-inducing and I knew a lot of those guys from City Hall know I didn't know them deeply personal it was like that piece of crap that guy guy would like a crappy job as an advocate for a waterfront housing development so look what do you even do you just you just promote this city project owning or any huge huge sums of money taxpayers money it's it's scary so there's there's reason for discomfort there's read there's good reason for transparency but his fundamental approach here is to throw out a claim like sir what's her name it's like the bite size vegan is not entitled to a wage when she's openly saying donate money so she can avoid so this can be your full-time job so in that fundamental sense I I think I do I think I do disagree with him all right did he do to do it makes absolutely zero sense for you to say plate eats that she ought to separate her charity from her income when I lived in Cambodia and Laos working for a charity was my income that's the whole charity sector donations paid wages 99% of donors know this I continued donations made to go vegan well another interesting and strange example so we can we could pop in video from go vegan world I was showing you video of go vegan world and this is big money this is a big money charity I want to make it open call right now if anyone in the audience okay I can't say I've been looking for like one year for their budget you know like you know more than six months I've been looking for their budget I can't find anywhere on the internet from any European agency or what-have-you anybody's watching this if you have a connect to get the financial reports I want to learn from their success I'm gonna learn from their failure I wanna learn for their time but go vegan world that is big money that is a lot of money and I say here donations to go vegan world pay for one salaries two illustrations of advertising agencies and three advertising rates the direct right sold cost to put a poster in a public place how can you say that donors are unsuspecting about such basic that this is the reality of the world of non-profit charities when people are being looked when people donate money to a church do they know where the money goes I think that's a complex question you know when people donate specifically to an International Missionary Church do the network goes if you donate money in Florida and it's actually paying for a fat white man in Thailand to live on the beach drinking cocktails in the name of preaching Jesus Christ's two tera vaada Buddhists in Thailand do you know where the money goes trust me living in Southeast Asia Cambodia telling us this is like a monthly scandal the reality of of Christian charities you know missionary charities in Southeast Asia because you know you may be paying for someone to be on permanent vacation you know sure those are pretty complex but these examples these are these are pretty transparent you know I'd like to know that the numbers for going wrong I'm not saying they're a scam I don't think that at all I don't think they're a Sam scam I think they're a success story but it's amazing to me that they managed to leverage the little bit of a little bit of legitimacy they had as a sanctuary they started as Eden farm Sanctuary in Ireland that a little bit of legitimacy in public program then they managed to leverage that into what looks like a multi-million dollar campaign really look for them one time yeah yeah we look a looker yes I've been looking yeah yeah I couldn't find any of that so you know what I used the different European sirs but anyway anyone who's got info on that hooked me up all right so you say quote they never have to report how they spent their native money Oh Oh sir so the point is here he said that real charities like the ones he provides links to have to report how they spent donated money it's the law whereas someone like myself for bite size vegan well this is this is really kind of misleading because and I say to him look I think you're a phony I think you're faking here you know plant eats I don't think you've ever actually done this kind of political science research I don't think you've ever sat down and read us form 990 you've ever actually read the reports Jerry's make we just talked about this with direction everywhere you can just be vague it's very easy to be non transparent it's very easy to mask what these are doing pedda most of the expenditures are just consultancy so many million dollars consulted and you don't even know what is it for you know what what was the consults so just by creating a separate company I'm gonna be some trouble but to my knowledge this was one of the problems with the National Geographic Society National Geographic Society they had both a charity and a company right well that's real convenient because you can just say oh yeah we sent so many million to this company for what well now the company doesn't have to report so I paid so much to this consultancy firm I paid him that's all you got so if no if the if the charity doesn't make a huge effort to really be honest with its donors you can just get very vague categories that were just talking about fellowship support what is fellowship support where is your money going what does that really mean orrin tetiz case consultancy and what have you so again I think he's talking out of his hat here he just does not know what he saw he has never made this this kind of effort and look here's the other thing impact impact and what's called absorption capacity I now make like a hundred and sixty dollars on patreon if you donate $100 to Minnie it is gonna make a difference no but let's keep it all real right now I have zero capacity to do anything in vegan activism I may do a fundraiser to publish my showing story book when you know well maybe try to promote that and publish this coming but yes if someone donated $1000 $1000 is not very much money if you're someone who's they could then say to me hey look I want you to attend this conference I want you to give a lecture at this event and I would say that great you know right oh okay I mean you know within the next six months I got time on my calendar I do so if they said you know obviously I got a chordate with other things but they said hey there's this vegan event in Florida I think you should I want you to go there and deliver this message I want you to go a debate dog castration isn't vegan something want you to debate that killing cockroaches is okay for vegans whatever the issue is they want me to speak on you can donate $1,000 maybe they don't have a huge decisive influence on me and what I do and you're gonna have real-world outcomes whatever those are whether it's speaking at this conference what is it you want what's the outcome you want right that's you know direct impact and search best you donate $1,000 to peda who the [ __ ] are you your opinion doesn't count for [ __ ] you're not going to influence a pet it does in any way it's gonna disappear into a multi-million dollar budget and it's and it's not transparent it's not pedda are legally compliant they comply with the legal obligations to be transparent and nothing more if you don't believe me go ahead and do the reading anyone can down download their us form 990 from the internet which is legally required from basically you can download it and try to figure it yourself where your money goes with them so know there's a big difference there and I think that actually favors people like me and bite-size Emily I think if you give bite-size Emily a thousand dollars you can probably have an email back and forth the thorough and let her know what you want you know we don't I mean what why you donated away your expectation what your hopes are and she might read back you saying look I'm sorry I can't do it you know with patreon you can cancel your pledge before you've paid it's not really you know she might say look I'm sorry it's not you know but I think I think donating $1,000 divided sighs Emily's probably be way more rewarding and packed full and have way more directly measurable outcomes then donate $1,000 to peda and me even more so you know and I'd be honest that way too if someone was donating a thousand dollars but it was something I couldn't do or something I wouldn't do I just say look I'm sorry but you know you know I can get I can give you the money back this is what you're expecting but that's not in the cards to me so no I mean you know did this kind of small youtuber activism you can change people's lives and in some ways you can change the world and it's pretty hard to convince yourself donating to big agencies of that it's gonna change the world you know and that you know what I mean I wondered that about go vegan world too because if I had the money to donate I probably prefer to just directly myself do what they're doing directly do an ad campaign why would I donate it to that agent so that also becomes an issue right at what point you pass the point diminishing returns well I've got a million dollars to donate why would I give that to this charity instead of just directly myself doing vegan activism with that million dollars that's a real question for big donors I think that's a really meaningful question yeah so the other issue was transparency about credentials and education oh right yeah so here we have new hot off the press we have plant eats denigrating Mike the vegan who muffed integrated myself Mike Mike got back to me right so Mike replied to my video criticizing him and he basically admitted I was right oh look at this I'm slouching down so much melissa's the tall one grouchy anyway yeah I did I did I did have a little bit of a conversation with him via Facebook um yeah so what credentials does Donald Trump have what credentials this vegan gains have what role do credentials play in this year game most of my experience with this you know is is really negative I don't I don't go around expecting people to this is something that I mean you called out freely for not having any credentials and she lied about it yeah yeah she was caught lying yeah sure sure sure no it's it's significant and I mean I think my argument about freely on that was was a little bit more nuanced I mean among other things I said I thought her total lack of sympathy for the people she was giving advice to reflected a lack of any kind of clinical experience you know like she doesn't know what it's like to be coaching someone and giving them advice when they're struggling with recovering from an injury just all the real world experience yeah you know her her lack of education I thought was impacting what she was saying in many different ways you know and some of that could come out of hands-on experience if you like in formal education rather than focus but no sure her the fact that she lied about having a formal credential that mattered of course yeah and you know she also said things like she didn't need any credentials her body was her only credentials the results she got her abdomen the fact she can take photographs of him that was the only credential she needed and so on so that was definitely a debate I engaged in I think I won I mean I think I destroy the other side of that long-term with freelee and durianrider over the the significance of credentials and that is in the context of giving diet and weight loss and health advice and I was also able to provide examples where Frehley was a hundred percent scientifically wrong garlic does not contain a neurotoxin her claim that garlic is not safe for human consumption is ridiculous her philosophy of the mono meal and what is and what isn't a true food the like you shouldn't eat parsley this is her her belief yeah you know this Parsley's healthy kids yet are you shocked to hear parsley healthy not according to freely doctor freely claims in argues at length that a food like parsley cannot be eaten as a mono meal therefore it's not a true food therefore it's insanity so yeah that is that is the kind of pseudo scientific internet factoid view of the world that would be chat if she got you know formal degree and in hope you know we in any kind of nutritional science Dietetic it's mentions that Mike the vegans videos can even be dry because of all the scientific study is that he was right you know he's not just making baseless claims like freely was so right and I feel you know he was 100% wrong in the video I criticized them on I criticism on his health claims about marijuana and to me that just showed that someone can use a whole stack of peer-reviewed articles and still be a hundred percent wrong not fifty percent wrong a hundred percent wrong so you know that that happens once in a while vegan gain screws up that way I've seen a couple of things where being gains kind of dropped the ball but you know he's an amateur who's doing serious work on fuel reserves but look not all forms of expertise are credentialed in 21st century I still really am an expert on Buddhism right now I can prove that in a lot of different ways like hey that one lecture I gave at Oxford University England at the invitation of Professor Emeritus Richard gamba Gombrich gold go read the lecture the PDFs on the internet you know I mean like you can decide for yourself whether or not that lecture proves that I have potential experience I have real expertise and knowledge and Buddhism there are two sides to this one there's whether or not someone has real expertise expertise that something separate from credentials come back to Angela does somewhat of expertise and - is someone going to be honest with you so you remember the sequel to cowspiracy I forget what it was called behalf okay what the hell if these are both documentary films cowspiracy and Modell there's a documentary called what the hell and in it he goes and talks to a guy who's a legitimate expert in diabetes in the science and Prudential div' but he's not being honest with you and you know the guys so wound up and uncomfortable and you know one point the guy doing the interview just says yeah but what about the link to dairy like he barely gets that out the guy's like standing up in his chair saying I'm not gonna talk about diet okay so that's someone who's on someone who's an expert he has expertise but he's not gonna be honest with you in Buddhism it's huge issue you know can I name people who are greater experts than I am Buddhism easily I could sit here now and name 1020 people who but will they be honest with you will they tell you the truth about the history of slavery in Thailand no no no no will they tell you the honest truth about the history of gender like the status of women in Buddhism in Sri Lanka or Tyler anyone no like these aren't even that controversial they're real well they told the truth about meditation and Buddhism never like nology torture them on the rack they won't even be honest with you about what they do no and they'll be much more dishonest of what they don't know you know so my expertise in Buddhism are of extraordinary value for that reason there's the expertise and then the different ultimately political components of why someone will be honest or dishonest because I think that guy in what the hell of the diabetes X but I think he's being dishonest you for I think what we could just call political reasons yeah you know that's that's a simple way to summarize it so that's I think for me that's the core the issue is having real expertise and being unbiased in that sense to your motivation being you know really being committed telling the truth of the subject now in Buddhism I never got a PhD and even while we've been together I've been applying to and talking to universities about maybe getting a PhD in Buddhism it's still a possibility for me it's not that appealing but you know it's this whole long story so I'm not credentialed that way but nevertheless I have expertise there that I really worth something when you're looking at people who don't have a PhD or some other obvious credential like that I think you can do the the due diligence D you'ii do the due diligence sorry a bit of an idiom in English you can do the due diligence to figure out whether or not they have expertise and in my case I feel anyone who can use Google can see really easily just where I've lived the Buddhist monks I've met face to face the publications have got its act and just even my blog entries let alone my peer reviewed articles you can really easily figure out oh this guy put in the time wow this guy studied the language as this guy you know this guy has articles and running that just really shows many many years of occasion with this where at a minimum he has an informed opinion doesn't mean I'm right being wrong is a wonderful rewarding part of human life on earth being wrong as the spice of life as far as I'm concerned I love being wrong anytime I'm wrong it means I'm learning something you know I mean so it's not being wrong it's noticing that I'm wrong that's that's the spice of life is finding out that you were wrong because then you really know really know you're learning something right so I don't know you know in different fields I think there are different ways where you can recognize someone's expertise without their having been formally credentials you know what's the road forward for veganism I have a diploma in political science does anyone respect my views on vegan politics more because I have a formal credential in education in politics in my opinion on vegan politics does it count more because I have a degree in political science yes or no I think we both know the answer is no that's I think that's part of the tragedy of the Commons the 21st century that's that that's the the tragedy of mainstream politics whose opinion matters on politics and you know a lot of people have irrelevant degrees they owe a lot of irrelevant degrees to get them in political power they have a background as a lawyer or something that would background the you know Bureau of commerce and trade or something there are a lot of things that seems to elevate your political status but by the same token whereby nobody cares that I have a degree in political science and thus gives more weight to my views on politics by the same token I kind of feel like it's a lot more of a mixed bag of what is the importance of your university degree and in the future of the the vegan movement you know good 40 45 minute conversation yeah yeah turns out like the vegan is getting a master's in public health yeah it was funny that at the end of the video right it says all right yes so he has some undergraduate degree in science and he's getting a master's right so right and that that doesn't qualify him to have an opinion on whether or not smoking marijuana is brain damage it doesn't but you know it doesn't it also doesn't mean he's gonna be wrong about that I've used the example I mean look with the health claims obviously there's more risk there's more danger you'd actually hurt someone's health by giving bad advice you know there are reasons to be really extra reticent if you don't have a robust scientific background in making health claims claims about the Health Sciences however I've used the example in this channel many times they're saying look I know I know as a fact that you should not Huff glue I'm a hundred percent against glue huffing if you ask me to sit you down and talk you through the science of how does huffing glue destroy your brain - I can't do it I cannot talk you through the chemistry or the biochemistry or the etiology of how exactly huffing glue is bad for you if someone says to me that they really believe that the glue fumes they're invisible I don't know right twenty minute video talking and with studies and it's all peer-reviewed sources right exactly so would you say that you are qualified you know that you don't enjoy expertise right you're nevertheless you're putting this information on what I think I think that's also really interesting you know subtle and slippery element of this some subjects really do require those kinds of qualifications and some don't like I feel I can say hey quit huffing glue I feel qualified to say that I think that's so similar even though I don't have the scientific background to say that right and then on the other hand all the time I see people making claims about Buddhism which you might think would be easy to do and I say no they're making mistakes equivalent to mixing up Santa Claus with Jesus Christ you know they're mixing different literary and mythological sources from different periods of time on different continents like no that's from Japan in the 18th century not from India and the 5th century BC you know that's where they're really making errors like that so something like that which might seem easy for an amateur to dabble in very often sigh no you really lack the expertise to talk was talking about so that's my experience life it's very unpredictable it's very hard to tell when we're treading into southern where expertise matters I think on a very deep level in Western culture we don't want to believe in a professional army we don't want to believe in professional killers we want to believe in the virtue of the volunteer I think we don't want to believe in the professionalization of political organizers that these should be spontaneous uprisings charity should be a spontaneous outpouring of generosity and it's not these people of the dead gray soul of a bureaucrat they put on a suit and tie they take your money and they go and hand out sacks of rice to starving people but if that's how you want if you want to do that if you that's those part of my job in Laos we literally handed sacks of rice to starving people you know if that's what you want to do you got to pay us and you know you got to pay us enough that we can go on vacation on a beach in Thailand and all the rest of it and we'll go over there and hand out those sacks of rice I mean it's I think it does run counter it's a human nature to a deep yearning for our moral instinct that this isn't what charity should be this isn't what Paulette it should be even this isn't what war should be this should be a more authentic spontaneous heartfelt and amateur volunteer based engage of these things and nine times out of ten it's not the link to my patreon is below this channel donate now a bonus Yin