Durianrider & Freelee: Lies & Faith-Healing. (Vegan / Vegans / Veganism)

whoo how would you feel if one of the
most prominent vegan leaders in the world was going around saying that he had magically cured an incurable disease through his vegan diet well actually this isn't entirely new sadly especially within the world of raw food gurus and diet gurus generally ridiculous claims have been made about that at almost every stage of the sad little history of our movement one day I hope veganism is gonna be on the bookshelf next to the the great social movements in history but not today and you know people like durianrider and Frehley they're as much victims of the unrealistic expectations that other people place on them as they are victims of the unrealistic expectations they place on themselves my view of the two of them actually is moderate you may think I'm angrily denouncing them or that I'm disappointed with them but I'm not and one of the reasons for that is that I'm not an ex follower I never had a period of my life before where I believed in these people or looked up to them or practice their diet and then was later disappointed people who have been through that experience tend to feel much more strongly about it and have resentment and hurt feelings and so on however there are two issues gonna be broached in this video relatively quickly the first is you might as well get out of the way durianrider is a guy who has both claimed to be diagnosed with Crohn's disease and to be diagnosed as having been cured of Crohn's that he cured it or he stated that he could be so that's a this is just as absurd I mean anyone if you haven't looked at the Wikipedia article on Crohn's disease it's not hard to educate yourself a little bit about the nature of this disease I knew one person in my life with Crohn's disease I was talking to another vegan youtuber about this he also he knew just one person I think when he was in school if you've known someone with it it is a terror flying very serious disease and morally speaking to falsely claim that you have the disease or to falsely claim that you've cured the disease is just as low as to falsely claim that you have AIDS or to falsely claim that you've cured AIDS nobody has cured Crohn's disease if somebody really was the first person in the world to cure the disease by eating a lot of bananas that would be a major landmark in the history of science and there'd be new research done on it for the same reasons that if someone cured AIDS by eating bananas it would be a huge landmark of history science that is really impossible and the other truth is that sometimes durianrider has said that yes he absolutely was diagnosed medically with Crohn's disease and sometimes he has said the exact opposite so I'm gonna play you a very short quotation here of what durianrider said an interview with a guy called rich roll if you don't know him he runs a podcast that sometimes talks about veganism and other stuff so here is durianrider his own voice in his own words talking to rich roll about this I mean what were the doctors telling you when you would go in for you know stuff revolving around having Crohn's they just said to my mom that I was making stuff up and things like that the asthma they could tell had the asthma of stuff so they're getting steroidal medication things like that but the digestive system was often odd I wouldn't go in anyway because I was too embarrassed to talk about it but occasionally when I did go in they did x-rays and staff and got me to consume its radioactive stuff they just said I work that we can't afford anything miss Johnson I think it's sad it's gonna be the imagination going on oh so they didn't even believe that you had it correct Wow so how did you finally figure out that that's what you have I mean you couldn't have self diagnosed yourself with Crohn's at that age did you or else what was going on that was only when I basically got over it that I worked out without sauce what's happening so look at the symptoms so there there are some elements of that story that are all too human and all too believable and I think anyone who hears that and compares what durianrider says now to what during writer said before if they had choose is he lying now or is he lying before in this podcast I think most people would surmise that during writer was telling the truth or most of the truth in this interview with ritual and that he's been lying in more recent videos where he claims to both have been diagnosed with Crohn's disease and to have been cured from it and to appeared himself miraculously with his diet there are a few things that ring true in that are sad and I sympathize the guy it's a sad story but he says in that interview both that the doctors did not believe he had Crohn's seeds they concluded he did not have Crohn's disease and also that they concluded that he was a liar or that he was untrustworthy now that is very sad for a young person to deal with and durianrider has been open about the fact that he has mental health problems and he has a lot of animosity towards the medical establishment so again these things fit together and I'm not here heaping scorn on him and saying he's the worst person in the world you could already see there an etiology a series of causes for why durianrider acts the way he does around exactly these issues including the over-the-top hysteria about steroids and steroidal medication over-the-top claims about the medical establishment and how they can't really cure anything etc and over-the-top claims about how his vegan diet has changed his life I am on one level if you met someone like that who wasn't in a position of power or influence you would just be happy for them you just say great great man you know I'm glad you quit drugs I'm glad you quit alcohol I'm glad you improved your diet I'm glad you became you know an athlete I'm happy for you and like I've I've got a long list of brothers and sisters if any one of them turned their lives around the way during mother did I would be so happy for them I would say good for you I'm so happy you quit drinking quit all this other stuff I'm so happy or now vegan and enthusiast what we're riding a bicycle and everything else and I wish I was in a situation where I could just be happy for a durianrider if he was a bit more of a mensch about these things we could all just be happy for him but he's not he's constantly attacking other people insulting other people causing ridiculous levels of conflicts denouncing people who could be his allies and his friends and you know he makes pseudo-scientific and false claims that are as damaging to veganism as you know faith healers claiming that they can cure cancer or cure AIDS or anything else now uh his partner-in-crime is freely who again is one of the most influential people in veganism near 2016 as I say I really hope every time I talk about these guys I hope it's the last video ever make they have been very influential the last few years but I do feel they've jumped the shark partly because they have nothing new to say I said to to Hannah and Jason at one point this was not on camera this is not a recorded interview but I said to them you know that I felt you freelee and durianrider should be desperate for their support to cooperate with them the freely into her should be desperate to cooperate with people okay Jason and they were very surprised that I said they said what you know what are you talking about I said well you know you can't build a social movement on a guy sitting on the the floor of his kitchen ranting incoherently about steroids again you know we've heard it before what these two have to say they've said it again and again they've said it on the news they've said it in the newspapers they've said it on their blog they've said it on in videos and for them you know repeating that same message again again is in some ways the meaning of life you know I guess I can sympathize I can sympathize up to a point but you know apart from the fact that they're constantly alienating people it would be their supporters something I've talked about a great deal on this channel there's also just the reality of repetition it doesn't have the same meaning the second time the fifth time the tenth time you've done it and it doesn't have the same meaning when they're making mistakes they're saying things that are factually wrong and scientifically untrue and that's already been pointed out to them you know they're not making the mistake for the first time they're choosing to continue preaching something that I think they know to be false or at least they know that other people have taken the time to really set out the facts and prove that it's false now another theme addressed in this channel is the question of what credentials does freely have if you search for freely credentials in this channel or each you'll probably find that video and I mentioned there that although freely vaguely mentions that she has an advanced certificate nutrition she always avoided saying what institution it was from then it had different reflection of this now this links up to the the the broader themes that was just talking about let's play a quotation of freely Zone voice finally letting the cat out of the bag and telling us where indeed her credentials come from so I have conventional certification in nutrition but I don't use that training at all anymore because it's so heavily funded by the meat and dairy industry that the information is just incorrect education do you have freely so I also have certification in nutrition so advanced advanced civilization from the Australian Institute of fitness okay so so there it is the Australian Institute of fitness now if you do a five-minute google search here's the here's the importance of really checking your facts checking your sources if you do a five-minute Google search you might jump to the conclusion that she's lying and I don't I don't think she is that's why I mentioned that up front here because the Australia Institute of fitness does not offer a certificate in advanced nutrition such that they don't have a certificate of that name and when I saw that I thought oh they've probably changed their program since Frehley was a student there and I think that's right now the question I broadly asked in the past well you know stiffy can mean anything I compared this to my own experience you know my own credentials questions people ask me about what kind of education I've got whether or not I'm an expert and this that or the other thing it's something many many people have to deal with who have unconventional credentials confusing credentials etc so I do sympathise and also look I'm going to put something else out there the program based on what I know about it because I did some research into the current program offered at the Australian Institute of fitness in diet and nutrition if I could take that program here in Canada you know what I probably would I might have taken it last year or something depend on how busy I was but I don't know how much it cost the session one thing I didn't look into I don't know how much money it cost but um sure I mean in a sense even though I do not see this as equal to being a medical doctor or a research scientist you're definitely not equal to a dietician a retic you know registered real dietician um you probably can learn a lot in a program like this and I'm not insulting freely or dismissing her her credentials entirely on the contrary freely is I think it's prone Frehley repeatedly says you know a piece of paper and it means nothing I think on the contrary you can learn a lot getting a certificate in in diet you can learn a lot more in a formal university program studying the science and nutrition or Dietetics so I got the following message back from the Australian students I wrote to them asking about this program you were inquiring about the nutrition coach program this program is a new program that opened last year 2015 this is something we have never done before as we have only focused on personal training massage and business let us pause there the Australian Institute is is not a university it's very obvious if you look at their website that 90% of what they do is training people to be fitness instructors gym gym employees and to some extent to be managed management of gyms so if you if you just read this far again you might jump to the conclusion that freely is lying I actually don't think she is lying however yeah the institution does not fill one with confidence but I continue the nutrition program will run for 17 weeks this is a blended program and will be delivered online and face to face once a month you would need to head over to Canberra to do your one day on campus face to face tutorial pause so to be clear it's a 17 week program you spend almost all of the time at home with your computer reading things on the Internet I assume using some web interface to send in some homework to prove that you're doing the reading I hope and once a month one day a month you do appear in person on campus could be an excellent program could be that people learned a lot if it's a really well-run program in 17 weeks I would say you could learn as much as one year at a real university could be I would generously say that you could learn as much as someone would learn in one year studying full-time in university campus however you definitely cannot learn as much as someone in four years on a university campus and in Canada for example being a registered dietician takes more than for years it can take as much as five years if you're really well organized you already have a BA in another subject you can shave it down but you are talking about four year programs followed by a practicum followed by special special programs after you complete a BA in science and nutrition so being a registered dietician or getting just a bachelor's degree in nutrition is much much much more education than what Frehley did but nevertheless this nutrition coaching program as I said if I had the option have had the opportunity I would consider getting this myself in Canada and I would not consider burning through four or five years of my life getting a full certification as a as a nutritionist or dietitian you know a ba program so probably a good thing for some people so this is the part that confirms for me that I don't think freely is lying the reply from Australian Institute of fitness continues both courses may share the similar content but they are both a certification and has both branded differently I feel this course is from a different provide hence the different name close quote so there are some grammatical errors in that paragraph from the Australian state of fitness they are not the Australian Institute of spelling and grammar however I think the point there is she saying both courses I asked specifically the nutrition coach program is that the same as the advanced certificate in nutrition so without naming it I think there her point is that basically yes this is the same program but it is branded differently obviously will be completely identical but this is probably representative of the type of certification it really has okay guys so let's wrap it all up with a bow below this video you are going to find a link to a webpage that is called the ugly truth about Harley durianrider Johnstone if you do a google search if you don't find the link if you do a Google search for the ugly truth about durianrider I'm pretty sure you will find this page and this comes back to the the fundamental problem of pseudoscience abuse of authority the role of leadership of these people in veganism today there are many embarrassing stimulating and interesting facts about durianrider on this web page including his alleged history of making death threats against people which people I know have told me about people I know have told me that during writer has made death threats against them his pattern of threatening to beat people up his pattern of boasting and making kind of unrealistic and impossible claims of himself but of all the things on this page what I really want to draw your attention to instead is just a set of links to their own website to the website that durianrider and freely created 30 bananas a day there's a series of links to people trying to discuss the problem of weight gain on the diet they were gaining weight and that went under these forums to discuss it now as as this guy Anthony colpo explains after he posted this set of links just showing look the diet doesn't work for everyone and there is no diet that works for everyone again it would be so much easier to sympathize with freelee and durianrider if they were just reasonable about these things but they are unreasonable in the extreme I've talked with us in the past if you say using caffeine will help you lose weight it does for some people it's not healthy it's not advisable it's not ideal but there are some people absolutely swear by the use of caffeine to lose weight and it has been scientifically studied etc I'm not telling you to use caffeine I'm anti caffeine I made a separate video on that why I don't use any caffeine or why I avoid using caffeine I try to use zero as close to zero as possible um but nobody can easily say about any diet that it works for everyone and there's a long list of reasons why that is if you are inclined to be reasonable but these links to people trying to discuss honestly and openly the fact that the diet didn't work for them that they gained weight on 30 bananas a day raw tell for that they gain weight in the diet promoted by freelee and durianrider those links today lead to a dead end because those discussions were deleted ok in terms of the sciences the most unpopular and dubious of the sciences are the social sciences but they still are sciences and you know even if you're just working with anecdotal evidence even if you're just working with the fact that you need people and chat with people casually and they tell you that the diet's working great one of the worst things you can do is delete evidence to the contrary when you do that you destroy the credibility of all the anecdotal evidence you have even if it is just anecdotal evidence a lot of things that we have in our lives rely on anecdotal evidence I'm gonna give you one example for my own life really quickly a lot of my life has to do with studying languages when people ask me about language program at my university and here in Canada now my current university I say it's a really bad language program if they ask why I'll give them some reasons why depends on how interesting they are sorry depends on how interested they are if they want to hear it or not um that's what I say if I say that it's anecdotal a couple of weeks ago I was getting on the bus and a younger guy who knows me he's in his last year of university here but he's younger than I am he starts talking to me about the language program and I said you know I think it's a really bad program I didn't say much about at that moment I said well you know he replied by saying he thought the program was really good and I said oh well that's interesting but I mean let me tell you something in my first year of studying Japanese and in my first year of studying Chinese the only spoken exercise I did the only exercise involving speaking the language was the final oral exam the exam during the last week of classes approximately and what I said that he immediately laughed out loud he laughed in a good-natured way and he said yeah you're right you know what those courses are absolutely terrible and he said some things about why he thought the course terrible he said and he reflected he said what he was really thinking about were the courses on literature which are more advanced courses and our it's taught a different way there's not really the language courses those are studying history literature I mean so right there you gave an example of the kind of nuance you need even in just collecting anecdotal evidence I did research in Cambodia we're talking about aspects of the healthcare system do they work or do they not work someone can tell you off hey I've had look this healthcare program is terrible it killed my son you've got to sit down and in a sensitive way without offending the person without having them get angry at you or shut up you now have to probe for one thing they could just be lying to you it could be their son is still alive he's not dead but it's very likely I mean this situation this is a real example I dealt with okay somehow their son died from medical malpractice from medical accident now I've got to figure out enough about the circumstances without offending this person you know the specific program that we're studying was that at fault was it just a specific doctor at fault is there something I can learn from this about how this program really works so again anecdotal evidence matters is this a good university program or a bad university program is this a good medical system I was dealing with specific aspects of the medical system not going to describe it here not the whole system in general can't boy everyone knows this system as a whole was pretty bad but what can we do to improve the way the the medical system works in Cambodia and you know and the question of does a diet work and will this diet work for you will it work for the type of person you are on your schedule with your needs with your particular health conditions etc yeah in real life we often do rely on anecdotal evidence there's a lot worth knowing in that article the ugly truth about durianrider but to me the most crucial thing I want you to feel the depth of this is a guy who lied about having Crohn's disease and he's lying now about being cured of his Crohn's disease and this is a guy who responded to people honestly reporting that they were gaining weight not losing weight on 3000 calories a day etc and he destroyed that evidence he covered it up and that doesn't wash off