Maturity and Making Excuses (Rachel Oates & Rationality Rules)

when I started thinking in terms of
other people's perspective and how would I want to be treated by that other person it's the Golden Rule you know that's what everybody knows is it the Golden Rule let me just so the golden rule is do unto others as you'd have them do unto you I don't think that's exactly what you're saying but by me instead of do unto others I think would be something like be for others you know what you'd want them to be for you so I have this slogan that just came up in conversation with my girlfriend which is that you know you grow up you really become an adult when you stop making excuses for yourself and then there's this other dynamic which is maybe even more intense now in the 21st century with social media which is that you start to grow up what maybe your friends stop making excuses for you or you stop accepting the excuses that your friends make for you because that can really hold you back you know having a circle of friends they may love you and they may care about you but they're keeping you childish they're preventing you from confronting what you've done wrong and learning from your mistakes and moving on they're even preventing you from taking yourself seriously because you know they're making you feel good about your childish habits or if they're just infantilizing you yeah you know what that's the most intense form of the tyranny of low expectations right sorry the soft bigotry of low expectations is that your own friends may just have low expectations of you and that and that holds you back I got my girlfriend Melissa on the line here you may or may not know this Melissa is 26 years old I had a series of videos lately directly and indirectly critiquing Rachel Oats Rachel Oats also as far as I know 26 years old chance the rapper chance the rapper 26 years old well Tyler the Creator 28 years old Alexandria Ocasio quartets do you care to guess you might know how old is Alexander kisi Cortese my guess is 30 29 29 so you know when her 30th birthday comes around she's gonna be really weeping in her pancakes lamenting oh she hasn't accomplished anything in her life you know what if he be like I made it to 30 and I still ain't done [ __ ] so you know I don't have hard feelings about this it's not something I'm really exercised about but when I hear somebody like rationality rules saying of Rachel at age 26 this other person on Twitter bullied her into slitting her wrists this other person on Twitter manipulated her into doing x y&z that someone else you know made up her mind for her to self-harm or attempt suicide and film it and uploaded on the internet and this this series of evaporite behaviors you know part of what I'd want to say to him man to man if he were a friend of mine was look if this were Tyler the Creator would you say that if this were chance the rapper would you say that and even if this were Alexandra okay Jie Cortese would you say that look I think there there are really weird perceptions of age that are built into our relationships where people infantilize each other and you know to use that well-worn phrase there's the bigotry of low expectations I thought I couldn't agree with you more you grow up when you stop making excuses for yourself you know so killing job John Kennedy right he was 24 years old god I forgot that wow that's a Jesus that's a great example 24 years old and he'd already he'd already joined the army dropped out of the army moved to Russia moved back again at least one kid I forget if you have one kid or two to be honest to you but yeah he had a wife and kid at least yeah that's right and then he got himself ran for she yeah well let's ask this - this is really Socratic this is really getting back to Socrates who is a good friend to you the person who makes excuses for you and helps you remain childish the person who kind of you know encourages you to be soft and vulnerable and weak and says there there it's not your fault you didn't do this somebody else somebody else did somebody else as well or the friend who says to you yes well what I said the other day when I was talking to you you know you were saying you don't know what what the perception of your video was from Rachel Lodz yeah and from my perspective now I can kind of say like I'm her same age I could think more positively about and having more experience with you the fact that I that I care so much about you like I would appreciate that criticism I would appreciate somebody having you know what you've said on your channel before is respecting someone enough to disrespect that yeah yeah and also on your channel is you've made videos saying stop in tantalising women yes I mean here's a woman right I think this video will go on that playlist I mean it's a simple point but it's kind of mysterious in its application because people lose people said of it like I understand this guy rationality rules he doesn't have any bad intentions and saying to this girl don't worry strong you're wonderful what you did was strong it's not your fault if this other guy's fault for bullying bullying you into self harming bullying you into manipulating you into you know uploading this thing to the internet you just did this for this reason well you know sometimes we treat the genders differently you know if we're talking about child birth or military service there are some ways in which the roles of men and women are asymmetrical that have to get dealt with but I do think it's important to challenge yourself in these situations how would this be different for me if the person I was talking to was it was a man of the same age instead of a woman what if your friend was a black dude who looks like Tyler the Creator you know what I mean can you imagine saying to him after this dude attempted suicide or slashed his wrists and bled on camera and filmed it and uploaded it and then sent that film out to the public and the person who'd been cool on quote bullying him on Twitter I wouldn't even dignify I can't even really call it bullying under these circumstances without getting into details but I mean I've seen the messages and I know she was blocked anyway so she she will they weren't even being sent her I think to an extent that is massive what you actually look like yes right you're perceived by those around you changes what you have gotten away with throughout your life and what you've had to be exposed to real life gender you know height yeah my line right away one of the reasons I'm using a face here why I'm putting in a picture of like this is Tyler the Creator this is chance the rapper like to visualize if this was your friend was a kind of large self-confident black male of about the same age is that you know I think it's really sad that for a kind of small effeminate guy some people would make the same excuses without questioning it without examining it whereas they wouldn't for a kind of tall self-confident male what the hell does height have to do with it you know I have a going but I do think it's not just gender it's it's perceived masculinity which includes race you know in a really you know bad way I mean there's no reason why an asian man should be perceived as less masculine than a black man but I think prejudicially probably in New York City people do people do think of the different ethnic groups as more or less massive a sense of what people who look like you are able to get away with in society and what other people say you know he is the victim in this situation if it were right at all even the seeming because we 26 is not young you're no kid at 27 but look the only thing I want to be more precise than saying getting away with getting away with something means different things there for people what we're really talking about here is someone reassuring you and saying it's not your fault yes like no you took a razor blade or whatever kind of knife and you cut your own arm and you made the decision to do it on camera and you upload it to the public in some countries that's a crime in on many websites it's a violation of Terms of Service you know uploading images of gore or self harming very often it's a ban humble offense whether or not it's actually criminal wherever you are is is another question you know local laws and regulations okay you did this you and if you're my friend let's just say I have a friend who looks like Tyler the Creator it's not whatever you know it's a dude dude what the [ __ ] are you thinking you know uh you know it would not even occur to me to say to him oh don't worry it's not you it's this other person this other person bullied you into it you only did it for this reason and of course of course she makes those excuses for herself but we see other people making those excuses for her also you know yeah yeah I'm just being more Foresight's I'm saying getting one you know I what age were you gonna start taking responsibility for yourself and your own actions and a broader sense who is responsible you know her for her actions for her pattern of self-harm for her depression-era lot people can can blame your upbringing you can blame your experiences in life but yeah that's the broader question who is responsible just one year's going by I think that is also a big part of growing up it's all oh also part of of being grown is recognizing that life is long what seems like a big deal to you today won't seem like a big deal to you six months from now right like how are you going to let it affect you right well you must remember this at least twice in this relationship I've said to you you know there's a difference between something being large and something just being close to you the difference is perspective perspective is telling the difference between things that really loom large and things that I'm really close to you as opposed to far away right yeah okay look look Melissa my girlfriend you're cute you're not like roly-poly cute you're more strut you're more striking than Hugh I mean no I mean I'm not saying I could but you know but cuteness is different from beauty you know what I mean like for some girls they really have a childish look about them but nevertheless in your case also I mean you could drift through life and have people treat you as young you could be the young lady right up until one day you're middle-aged and nobody's making excuses anymore you know what I mean but maybe you could even skate till like 32 or 35 where everyone's infantilizing you everyone's treating you like you're still a teenager and then all of a sudden you know you're a grown-up right I saw you're the first person who's really not excuses for me right so I think so it was two months after we started when I started thinking in terms of other people's perspective and how would I want to be treated by that other person it's the golden rule you know that's what everybody knows okay is it the golden rule let me just say what the golden rule is do unto others as you'd have them do unto you I don't think that's exactly what you're saying I mean I I think the point is more like be the sort of person that you would appreciate as a good person if you were evaluating somebody else you know I gave her this example earlier we're talking on the phone you know somebody who's smoking marijuana and playing video games and they may have all kinds of excuses for why they're enjoying their life and there's nothing wrong with this they they don't feel any guilt about it but then if you ask them if you had a teenage son yourself is this what you would want your teenage son to be doing with this time or if you were still a teenager and this is what your parents were doing with their time if your parents were getting high infinity how would you feel about that and then I mean at once it's kind of an extension of the role yeah it's kind of an extension of the role because like in that phrase treat others how you'd like to be treated it's also a reflection of who you are right how you want to be treated you know when I first heard the video you made recently talking to Rachel Oates are talking about Rachel Oates dude I thought I would be honored if somebody made that video trying to have a morality lesson you know trying to teach me something like that but that reflects who I am she did not respond this way go on she did not appreciate it for going in exactly right so you know it's kind of you're right it's not just the golden hole it's kind of an extension of that I seen but by man instead of do unto others I think would be something like be for others you know what you'd want them to be for you now I I think though putting it into the the unequal relationship of parent and child is what also gives that life though like you know I would want you to be responsible you know a responsible person toward me maybe not literally my parent but it's not just that I want you to be fun you know what I mean I don't want you to be entertaining for me that I want you to be a good person in at least the sense where you would be care you would be capable of taking care of me or you'd be capable of taking care of somebody you know you mentioned this not me you mentioned the image from Sparta from ancient Sparta that all of the citizens of sparta were expected to behave as parents toward everyone else it's a very interesting right and you know interesting it's a not necessarily be friends with everybody like you say not necessarily just be the guy that everybody likes to have fun with you want everybody else to take responsibility for what they're doing with their lives and in that way that's that's basically what the image of Socrates is you know that is the gadfly in society that you know getting people to question what they're doing why they're doing it a lot of people don't like that figure but I do you know I like I like being challenged and I think a lot of personal growth comes from that and that's that's what you need you don't want to stay in the same place you don't want friends that are just gonna tell you that you're you're doing alright don't infantilize women don't don't don't make excuses for people because all these and their behavior yeah I'm sorry I cut you up a man sir that is a good point so you were saying the point is ultimately you want friends who don't make excuses for you because that encourages you did not make excuse yourselves I do think that's it really that's a really important point with this case study of Rachel Oates I notice also that all of her friends and all of our supporters are telling her that she's a good person that she's a wonderful person that she's a strong person you know and that's just something she is right like it's a quality of the soul that they're ascribing to her and that's also really dangerous to me because then also that's not something you strive to be or something you question right like you know and the particular scenario is a bit surreal like okay if I have a male friend who's the same age she's 26 years old I have a friend who's a dude and he attempts suicide on camera and uploads the footage of him attempting suicide himself harming and bleeding out of his arm and him weeping and carrying on and he does that to get the attention and sympathy of other people on the Internet including one person who quote-unquote bullied him you know without digressing into whether or not the word bullying even applies um would anyone respond to that by telling him that he's a good person and that he's strong he's a wonderful person and so on like shouldn't there be questioning of exactly those things isn't that exactly what you want the person to question you know like wait a minute why why are you so weak why are you so so settled this don't you really need to examine isn't this what we need to talk about yeah go on we're in the realm of discussing human psychology here and a big factor is appearance a big factor is what you experienced growing up you know like what is okay for these different for what's normalized and culture like how can you express your your feelings of it's not normal to show yourself self harming video it's really not that's extreme um but you did like you said it's a man wouldn't be like the people wouldn't make excuses for fur a man that age I don't think like they like they do with a female at that age so I I don't know I mean growing up in America to get this this problem with mass shootings I mean I know this is a political topic but like you know what's what's okay for a female to do you know she shows herself self-harming because she's been bullied I think sorry I shouldn't be saying no no again I think I think though you get into the other the other problem of you know the the soft bigotry of low expectations there which is mental disability because that's the other big thing that's it's talked about and yet also avoided in those discussions is well you know quite a few of these mass shooters they have Asperger's syndrome they have autism spectrum disorder they are mentally [ __ ] one way or the other and you know even if you just watch the footage of the interrogations it's sometimes very obvious there's this image of the autistic person kind of presented by Hollywood like oh he's just slightly quirky no it's a serious disability you know and you know being disabled doesn't make you nice and doesn't make you harmless doesn't make you cute either and yeah I mean you know so it's it or is the infantilization of disabled people and the infantilization of of women also yeah I mean over time where does it leave you after living with those those low expectations for so long yeah I think you know the question that you let off with is you know when did you start feeling like you're not making excuses for yourself yeah it really took some some pretty intense situations with you for me to to see myself instead in a different light [Music] imagining that my behavior is being done by somebody of a different gender of a different age of different physical stature yeah if you imagine it you're behavior in that light you really start to see things differently I came back where you've been asking you I can't remember even asking you how would you feel about the argument you just presented to me if it was some other young I can remember to it that too with you as a thought experiment where there wasn't even that you were like oh wow it's really different when I'm imagining someone that was early in the relationship having now seen being living in a different culture meeting other people from from around the world to will influence what you think it's normal what you think it was acceptable behavior yeah and and what you think you know what what we make excuses for in America are different I mean there's more than one way out of this kind of excuse making mentality but like being a good person or being a good woman is even more loaded being a good man somehow that's different from being a good person you know shouldn't be but it is they have different connotations culturally but you know it's really different even if you just narrow it down to think about being a good author being a good writer some like this you know what I mean I had a conversation with my father million my father's dead never the way but back back when I was a teenager and you know I just commented at that time I was studying the theater including ancient Greek theater you know when I commented about a particular play by a particular author I said oh I just finished reading this play and I really feel like copying it out longhand you know just to kind of study more carefully you know if you if you write something out longhand you take the time and you really think about how it's composed you know just I remember the phrase I use the time what I actually said to my father was I feel like writing it out longhand just to sort of step through the same footsteps as the author you know yes yes and all that my father said to me he just stood there in the kitchen and he said what's stopping him and for me I mean that was one of those moments where you stop and ask yourself what excuses am I really making you know I thought about it afterwards you know do I really want to be a writer do I really want to be an author do I really want to do this work or not because if I wanted to you know I mean see if there's some other guy who really wanted to do this that's what he'd do you know what I mean do I really want to whether it's writing for the theater or writing nonfiction is this really is this really what I want to do I want to take myself seriously as as an author or not but I mean being a good author or being a good writer you know already there there's a challenge to you right whereas being a good person people don't think of that in a way that challenges them if anything they use that notion to insulate themselves against being challenged I think