The Election of Jordan Reichert: Vegan, Animal Rights Activist.
18 March 2018 [link youtube]
www.jordanreichert.ca/
^ Currently, the text on this website reads: "Make history. Vote for Victoria’s first representative for animals on city council. It is my view that the moral baseline of our society is measured by its treatment of those most vulnerable within it. In Canada, no individuals are more vulnerable than non-human animals. They are defined as property under the Canadian Criminal Code, they lack recognition as contributing members of society, and their forms of communication are invalidated as of a lesser kind than human communication in normative social discourse."
THAT'S THE PLATFORM YOU'RE RUNNING FOR ELECTION ON???
Youtube Automatic Transcription
this video is a little bit different for
what I usually do I could separately make a video talking about these issues in a more global broadly applicable manner that would make sense for any political context where vegans are thinking about taking the vegan message and adapting it to go to the polls to actually participate in electoral politics to try to get people elected but I struggled with kind of take 1 take 2 take 3 of trying to do that I thought you know what let's stop and let's actually make a video just talking about vegan politics here in Victoria British Columbia Canada so this is one case study and I want to say also you know this has come up when people criticize me for being a critic they say how do you criticize this is very very different from offering film criticism after a movie is already in theaters when your criticism can't possibly change the movie the reality is I'm offering this criticism at a time when the elections we're talking about are very much ongoing they're at step one they're just the beginning when the criticism were having could really raise productive questions and could stimulate people to come to new Answers and adopt new strategies and to learn more from the experience of what's going on here politically as it happens so this is not criticism um you know if you criticize a film nobody's gonna go back and re-edit the film in response their criticism it can't really have those kinds of positive outcomes right and there are positive things about what we can learn and who we can work with and what can come out of this um Victoria is not a big city but it is the capital city of this province so politics is a big industry here it employs a lot of people a lot of people who are employed with the government and the scene for vegan activism is very small and I think I can safely say it is largely closed so I've come here and some people here do recognize me as a kind of YouTube celebrity within veganism I don't know if I mentioned this to you Bay but what one person I was posting was actually posting about buying secondhand equipment for the kitchen we just furnished this apartment and someone I remember replied to that post by saying Oh YouTube's loyalty that is commented this so there are some people there vegans that washed up on YouTube they they know me this way yeah but in terms of who are the local leaders and activists here in Victoria they are not happy to see me they're not none of them are interested in coming on my channel and doing an interview promoting their work on my channel none of them are inviting me to come to a protest and on the contrary when I volunteered to go to and participate in a a vegan protest not to specify what kind of protest I was kicked out of the Facebook group so you know and I've asked I've asked Jordan himself the god this video is really about what happened why was I kicked out of his Facebook why was I not you know and these seem groups are constantly preaching openness and cooperation I have videos I could link to right now on YouTube where Jordan and his girlfriend Cory are preaching the importance of cooperation collaboration so on and it's like well none of you can cooperate with me when I get off the airplane I get back from two years in China and I'm really just here to cooperate with people and and do some positive yeah so it's a small town the amount of talent here is is finite and you know I wonder look I said this earlier in the bodybuilder video when I sit down in that room it's a bunch of people planning for a municipal election planning for participating in electoral politics I don't think anyone is happy to hear me say because this how introduce myself my degree is in political science from University of Toronto I have experience working in a municipal political campaign planning and running a campaign I learned a lot from that experience only they'll haven't once in my life was a very small campaign really there were only two people involved so the Green Party campaign to get someone elected in Toronto as alderman or city councilor however you want to ever you want to term it is the local government you know representative but I was really involved in that campaign I learned so much it was a pivotal turning point in my life and how I think about politics in so many ways and this is really what I'm into you know I'd really like to pause look at you so as positive that message is I think the reception in the room is was pretty icy I think nobody wants to hear that I think I mean politics it's the ultimate topic on which everybody wants to feel like they're an expert and nobody wants to recognize that there are specialized the areas of expertise there might be something you learn by getting a degree in political science by formally studying this and what have you people want it's cuz it politics it overlaps so much with a sense of identity and morality and everything else I think nobody's happening that what I said just to finish notes cuz you already know that it's you were there what I said the bodybuilder was by contrast I know that same were to that same room of people would have responded so positively if idea said hey I'm a student in baking college I'm gonna study and become a vegan Baker I'm gonna bake bread and cakes for you guys isn't that great you would have you would have gotten so much warmth than positive interest yeah I was just going to say I do remember one woman saying that basically do what you have to do to get elected and once you're elected then you can focus on animal rights issues when you're in an elected position right so that was a positive response I think influenced by what you say you're right knowing what I said the meeting in couple other people there was a man sitting on the left to who reacted who was taking on board what I said in terms of the phrasing or just I'm partly gonna respond to just that nomenclature using its it is different when we talk about animal rights and we talk about veganism one of the things I said this in the meeting very briefly but you and I discussed it afterwards - it's an interesting point the way they were talking about veganism was as if this campaign to be elected would be implicitly and inescapably about the fact that this guy is vegan the people would either vote for him or vote against him because he's vegan like period alright and one of the things I said in the election was I said sorry I said in the meeting about the election I said that is just as misguided as me running for office here and thinking people are gonna vote for me or vote against me because I'm a Jew that's part of your background that's part of the little blurb on your bio you know the bio you know he happens to be involved in veganism and animal rights that that is but the vast majority of people will just regard that as as if it were part of your ethnicity you know that's how it is to outsiders about veganism and understandably so the the current leader of the NDP so the NDP is our Democrat Party in Canada the most left-wing of the of the mainstream party he's uh he is I think in the past was vegetarian and says he's gonna become vegan and you know he has a long beard and wears a turban and you know in terms of who judged him or who votes for who votes against him it speaks well of Canada I don't think his ethnicity really matters that much sure maybe it matters 5% or 10% Amin matter a little bit but I'm ok with it there are exceptions I think you know Barack Obama does as does his ethnicity matter you know in a certain momentous circumstances in history it matters but most of the time people are going to commit to vote for you or not vote for you because of the promises you make in the spirit of public service now it may sound like a let's bring down earth what do I mean I get I said this at the meeting in the last City elections we had here in Victoria I was here during them pretty much every candidate was known as the guy who was for the bridge or the guy who was against the bridge we also have a controversy here but sewage treatment the guy who was in favor of this plan for sewage treatment the guy who was against it there were just a few issues like that where the public knows your commitment to the issue and you have maybe won a sentence in the public imagination where you can tell people this is what I'm about this is what I'm gonna do for you does it matter whether or not you're Jewish whether your diet is kosher whether or not your background is jiying or Hindu or Sikh you know you're from India none of that matters nearly so much as what you're saying in that one sentence hey this is my commitment hey I'm gonna make sure we do build the bridge or I'm gonna make sure we don't build the bridge I'm gonna make sure the suits you this kind of thing and I mean I that may sound low and mean-spirited it's not if you're elected to government as a city councilor you are a civil servant you're serving the public interest and you've got to tell them what you're gonna do in that subway service you've got to commit to that and it's they're only gonna be a few things like that that you commit to and then for 99.9% of the public the fact that you're vegan matters as little as the fact that you may be Hindu or Buddhist or Jewish I get unless you're living in an intensely racist society where it really matters where the anti-semitism is such a big deal that you're actually campaigning on your Judaism as an issue you know what I doubt it so that was that was a very strange thing in terms of self perception episode but in terms of the way you just phrased in this comment you're talking about animal rights sorry said you have more to say under that heading I mean look you're not being elected to a position of government that has anything to do with animal rights and this guy this candidate Jordan Richard he does have a background in campaigning for animal rights he also has a background in drug rehab and treatment for drug addicts homeless people trying to get people into better jobs better housing situations and what have you um I'm sorry I thought there was a third plank something else I was gonna mention is his background no okay given the advice of maybe making one of the campaign promises right right right so that guy and that was a guess right that wasn't something I I think I raised I think other people in the room were also talking about that right so those the possibility you could build this campaign on on with the rent being too high in Victoria right so you know these are kind of ideas ideas that were in the room but you know um you know you can choose to campaign on the promise that you're gonna solve the drug problem here in Victoria that's a problem that matters to everybody and that's a problem that is in your jurisdiction if you're elected this position you say look if I'm elected this is my position on the drug epidemic and the city this is how I'm going to solve it or this is my position on homelessness and here's what I'm gonna do about it you can have specific policies that you commit to but when I asked him about that and again I spoke very briefly at this meeting his response was to retreat to no he doesn't support any position on those issues he just represents compassion a compassionate approach to these issues and this is I've talked about in a few YouTube videos this is one of those problems in politics of people perceiving weaknesses strengths where people think the Viger I make this message the stronger it is and that's the exact opposite the truth claiming that you represent compassion is really weak compared to coming forward and saying this is my position on building the bridge this is my position on sewage treatment this is my specific promise to you the public the vote or this is why you shouldn't why you should vote for me yeah I thought it was interesting that in this meeting there was a very first meeting for his campaign yeah and he said I don't want to talk about specific policy issues yes you're right um which I think at this point can be understandable but also you know you should be thinking about it well I I really disagree so this comes back to this image of there's a criticism of the Rolling Stones do you record an album so that you can go it on tour or do you go on tour to record your album right um you're right he said he didn't want to make any statement about any specific policies he endorses so why you ready for government yeah why is it you're coming to this meeting and you're saying you're gonna have focus groups and ask the public what your position should be now there are some situations in politics where some of that you know can go on but the fundamental concept of leadership in politics is exactly that you come into this race with a commitment to achieve something so I think the the clearest example of this being really successful for someone who's really a political outsider I really didn't have money behind him or polio support Jesse the body Ventura the wrestler Jesse Ventura key to him with us he was a wrestler he was a professional wrestler and he had a list of about four or five things he wanted to accomplish if elected they were really specific you know with legal reforms and then he said he would accomplish those things and that was it he would retire but you know there was nothing else he was going to accomplish he wasn't a career politician and he to my knowledge she did he lived up for that he passed the new laws exactly what he promised then that's the point you don't have to trust this person in some more vague broad way to say oh if I'm elected this this and this is what I'm going to accomplish and that's it that's what you're voting for you're voting for these issues that matter to you but as opposed to coming in and saying hey I represent compassion something very vague something any political party can claim to represent yeah if you vote for me you're gonna get a compassionate approach to these issues okay so what are you actually gonna do about homelessness what are you actually gonna do about drug addicts what do you actually need to do about the bridge or sewage treatment or whatever the issue is this tells me nothing it's not a promise I can hold you to yeah it's not a commitment to doing something positive for the for the public it's also something I don't think you can define yourself I don't think it's as strong to define yourself as being anti like I think he mentioned he doesn't like the idea of throwing drug addicts in prison right so being anti that you know a different perspective on it a different option is weak yeah yeah people are gonna vote for solutions not for problems plus the word compassion look something I really learned from experience I mean I guess I do this in theory before but I did the experience of the political campaign I was a part of in Toronto I really learned how crucial it is to find an issue that you alone represent for it to be concrete specific Waggett wedge issue and then make sure that your competition can't take away from you you say hey I'm the one candidate who has this position on this issue I'm the one candidate who will deliver this outcome for you the public if the other guy that won't and it's got to be something specific it if you like I started off being involved with politics in the Green Party but what I learned the hard way and again maybe I knew this in theory but I guess I didn't really think it through till was actually involved in it in an electoral campaign if you say we represent ecology the Liberal Party can say that they also represent ecology yeah if you say we we represent less air pollution the Conservative Party can say they represent less air pollution ah but when you say we will stop this power plant from being constructed now it's different the Conservative Party will commit to a vague concept of improving air quality the Liberal Party will commit to a vague concept of ecology ah but on this powerplant that all the other parties are in bed with you know they're already committed to being assertive we're the guys will stop it will cancel this project no of course multibillion-dollar approach any power plant is a huge budget project right yeah but it's you can't campaign on compassion you can't campaign on equality the others have compassion equality ecology none of these things they're all they're all just vague Maxim's that almost any political party or political candidate can claim represent yeah I was just I wanted to say he didn't actually say with regards to veganism what actual policies he would be against like right no he did mention horse-drawn carriages which I know in the past has been one of his one of his I don't know if you would say like you know one thing that he's trying to stop in the city it's one of the issues that got him into the newspapers he's had newspaper covers over his protests against or some carrots right okay so without strong carriages and also deer calling but he did say like I'm going to run on this right form of being anti deer calling or we're anti horse-drawn carriages and I think he has to realize that most people will not vote on that basis because it doesn't affect their lives well so like rents or like you know that's I think why he realizes he could focus on his strength of having a pest and drug rehabilitation are you campaigning to win his answer was yes he's actually trying to get elected and that was talked about or are you campaigning to be a platform for veganism or for some other message I would be totally happy to run in an election where I know I can't win I said look I'm running in this election to ask tough questions about ecology veganism health policy you name it you know I could have some PCRM style stuff about you know why are we encouraging stop feeding dairy to our kids in school right hey stop feet why do we have dairy and eggs being fed to people in hospitals yeah I'm you can ask this so it's it's it's illegal to smoke cigarettes in hospitals but we feed them fried eggs you know what's that about so yeah I could make a list of things but say look I'm running to raise these issues there the issues I wanted or attention to I don't think I can win but I think there's another kind of moral victory and ever since that's not his approach interestingly but if you're playing to win and the card you're playing is I'm the guy who's against deer culling or I'm the guy who's against horse-drawn carriages we know exactly what the outcomes gonna be that's what you did in the last election which was 2017 it's not ancient history this is 2018 who's to the in 2017 you've got 102 votes so I mean maybe this time it'll be a hundred and ten but you know running on those issues that even vegans don't support you about yeah cuz we're about above 2% of the population here is vegan here in Victoria people you're not even getting that yeah because it's a different election he thinks because we've got the option of voting for eight people that someone will be willing to use one of their eight votes on him if they see compassion if they see this this term but yeah probably right you'd probably get some votes that way yeah I don't know so yeah I think even on even going with the same strategy he did last time he probably will get more votes than the last one right you only had one vote sure that is true there is a difference that in the the prior election where you got only hundred two votes each person voting only had one vote and this time they have multiple votes that they can apportion on the ballot in a little bit more of a dynamic way so that that is true it may also be that he gets more votes because he has lousy or competition in the last election he running for the animal Alliance Party of Canada he got fewer votes than the Libertarian Party which is a tiny party so I mean that's that's how a marginal you are right now you're less successful that you could learn from what the libertarians are doing and double your number of votes I mean it's you're at this level right and for me I mean something like horse-drawn carriages that's marginal and dubious even within veganism I'm you know whereas something like saying hey if I'm elected I'm gonna challenge the school boards why are you teaching our children to drink milk when we know it's not healthy I think that's a strong suit for veganism that's something that might interest people who are who are not but you know my advice you know if you are actually playing the win if you're actually trying to get elected what I said to him was you have to pick a wedge issue and make it your own something a distinctive issue that matters to the public that's that's only your issue that other people aren't aren't standing on and see this is the other thing keep so I'm just giving ahead a bit but he said in response to this advice which I'm not fully fleshing out here he said well it didn't matter because everyone knew him as the animal rights guy so he was just gonna run as the animal rights guy anyway cuz that's how everybody knew it right no I didn't say this but it was like at the time I was thinking right everybody is a hundred and two people okay a hundred and two people voted for last night it's just not the case view of a mass won't leak on the basis of any warrants but what I did so I didn't say that to him what I didn't say then next my next piece of advice to him was look you're thinking about this the wrong way on in this election I said a lot of people in this room mentioned the drug addiction issue and your background is someone who counsels drug addicts videos that a lot of people in this room right now work cited about the possibility of you making the drug crisis your wedge issue your go-to issue I said if you become the anti-drug guy whatever want to say if that's you come then for this election for the perspective of the electorate that's who you are if you decide to make your wedge issue the low-rent issue if you say the rent is too damn high you're gonna make a campaign over-promising to have lower rent for people then for the electorate voting for you for this election that's who you are that's what you represent that's what you're promising to do and the fact that you happen to be vegan or happen to have a background animal rights this is almost as irrelevant as whether or not your background is being Jewish or what-have-you nor German I think he is German but you know whatever your background maybe that is not what people are voting for that's not who you are for the public in this election that's not what you're committing to do that's not what you're campaigning on and I mean that I think the whole language of what I was explaining to them was really very foreign to them I think their way of thinking about politics is on a deep level not in a shallow level is identity politics that all they want to do is say hey I'm a good person this is Who I am I am compassionate vote for compassion vote for me and there's no I mean there's really no sympathy with the position of the voter that the voter has probably a list of complaints about things in Victoria they think are terrible like you know in most cities it's something like they want the roads to be prepared we actually don't have that problem here the roads are fine you know but something something like that that they're going to polls they're animated by and they want to hear from you your commitments on exactly those issues and they're only going to be one two or three of them building the bridge building the sewage treatment or it could be what are you doing with the homeless of the drug addicts what are you doing about the rent being too high whatever it is you know I don't know identity politics maybe that's why people like your Facebook page you know maybe you know the sense of you being a good person of your running on that in social media maybe that does take you you kind of so far and no further but it seems to me a fundamental misunderstanding of the role of leadership that you are running as a political leader not as someone who asked the public what your what your position ought to be but as someone who's you know someone who's telling them I'm committed to achieving this goal if you vote for me that's the one gonna achieve and a fundamental lack of understanding but the civil servant attitude that you're what as a public servant saying this is what I'm gonna do in your service if you give me your vote yeah you got more you see like was it something I think most people have a negative opinion of politicians in general yes so trying to say that I'm a good person I'm a compassionate person I also yeah that's really it's extra hole oh right yeah I mean Donald Trump ran on saying he's not a rapist and you know Hillary Clinton I ran on promise saying that Bill Clinton was not a rapist and oh well you know you look at the allegations with sexual propriety on both sides and it's pretty dark all over but yeah um I really feel that so that's a perception of weakness as strength as as soon as you want to talk about specific policies of just trying to retreat behind compassion or even ecology or what-have-you saying no you know if you don't commit now if you don't commit before go to the ballot box how can we expect the whole video count how we expect to be accountable after you've been elected after you've got a budget and a salary to carry these things out yeah and I guess another thing that I would want to talk about we have you know you and I agree on this but I think there is a splinter within veganism of people who are animal lovers yes not animal lovers but you know obviously we care about animals and care about the well-being of animals but you know how is that going to be perceived by the public when you say you know I know was a joke but uh his girlfriend said it's a dream of mine to have this funny ad for the campaign like yep Jordan would be walking around a park and be like interacting with animals like deer and cats and dogs right you know cause he's the candidate who represents the animals right yeah right and you know we had watched one of his videos where he was at some gathering of people and he told he told them to vote for vote for the animals like you know one vote for the animals that's right so if you're going to you know if you have pets like somebody right if you love your dog you should totally be a vote well that that's the hardest part I find that's what I found her is to describe to outsiders by the scenario I talked to someone else about this this morning over Skype and he said oh so the guys campaigning on a vegan platform and I'd say no not really it's not a vegan platform it's a it's a for the animals it's all of the animals platform and if you do that so he already has a track record you can get 102 votes but it's a totally surreal political platform to run on that's like uh it's much more Korean to run on just to give an example an anti-war platform you can be a vegan person who supports animal rights and says hey I'm mad as hell about the war I want Canada to leave the war make big morale thing out of that you can be the anti-war person yeah and people at least know what they're voting for you know this thing about about crafting his political message about like the idea the animals love him and he loves animals it's weird and you can watch the videos yourself on YouTube they have very very few views compared to even my own modest you know number of viewers on on the internet um you know I think it's safe to say you look at those videos nobody wants to hear it yeah well during the lecture so this was an event entirely attended by his supporters I mean you know what naturally the nature of the event I think there was one guy who was there because his mom brought him who wasn't really sport there couple people of that but basically everyone is there because they support him and I've got to say for most of this event the majority of people were bored I can't say everyone was bored but there were a lot of long periods where you know you see her sitting in the room you look around the table this was boring to people and his lectures that I have sat through I forced myself to sit on YouTube and listen to his lectures we sitting at a podium at an all candidates event that means it's a debate basically where each of the candidates makes a statement they don't really directly debate each other so much but you know you have contrasting lectures from each of the candidates before an election and I I'm so biased in this guy's favor right I'm also vegan I also care about ecology there's a lot there are a lot of guys there and I find this boring I find it totally boring and what I care about politics I care about someone's all the stuff I'm passionate about oh you know all these issues but it's like you can't even reach me you're alienating me and you're boring me with your approach to this issue that really can be symptomatic of a bottom line cause so look I I brought my girlfriend of this event I've known Jordan not personally but know some extent I've known a person I should talk about some person stuff for more than three years um I didn't know the going to svet I didn't know what his platform would be I did assume there would be more of a spirit of him learning the lessons of the failure of his last campaign and taking on a new direction or being open to seek unity direction in this in this campaign and it was really the opposite yes and it was a hug percent committed to repeating exactly the errors others 2007's more votes because of these right right you probably will get more votes he'll probably give more than 102 votes but I don't think he'll win and if I'm wrong I mean I'll be happy I guess you know be one more vegan in a position of power in Canada I guess but let me ask you you have no commitment to to politics in Victoria you know I can't vote here but having been to this meeting and have him here he made a statement do you want to vote for Jordan Roger well I think as you said having a vegan in politics yeah I think I would be inclined to vote for him yeah he seems like I'm put together presentable like that just generally you know like he seems like a professional guys can't be professionally hmm I think I probably would like in this context of having eight votes for council people yeah yeah probably one of my votes but it depends on you know other issues that the other candidates present if I feel rationally about something that they promise that there is a candidate that's saying I'm going to lower the rent committed to it you know it's too damn high yeah if I had to choose between one so so choose that rather than deer calling or write a platform of getting rid of horse-drawn carriages to me obviously it's pretty obvious what is more important to me from either there were a lot of red flags you know in this already and you know look I I guess I can say I sympathize with anyone who wants to take on the challenge of taking the vegan message and adapting it tab impact at the polls you know in that sense I'm a fan of what he's doing or what in theory he's he's trying to do but in terms of what his actual platform is and what his message is there were a lot there were a lot of red flags yeah and you know I know from things he said previously but also from things that were said this meat there was talking about you know violent protests about burning down vivisectionist laboratories remember there was the discussion about anti-vivisection ism in style and apart from what he actually believes or what he actually said what you saw with that part of the discussion was that on the level of rhetoric or debate or discussion he's not capable of dealing with that well right yeah hmm so you know so that's that's a red flag for me you know no matter whether it's sincere or insincere or whatever it's like well as a vegan as a vegan in politics that's the kind of issue you've you've got to be able to deal with yeah you know and I've had um I rarely answer insincerely I mean you see I'm overly honest in most situations but I have been in political situations where somebody asked me was something like this like well you know would you abolish this or would you make this that illegal and one of the answers I give is you know we're in the middle of like a 300 year struggle like some of these issues like look I can give you my opinion but it doesn't matter like fundamentally you know like normally it's something like declawing cats or something would I make it illegal to declawed cats we just had a law passed for that in eastern Canada Nova Scotia and New Brunswick one of those they just made it illegal to declawed cats but I mean part of my answer really is look you know we're facing this crisis to do with factory farming and mass production of meat and what have you you know we have a lot to tackle here but you know if you want my specific position on declawing of cats you know we're in the middle of a 300 year struggle this is it's gonna be centuries before a lot of this stuff gets gets resolved so this is not really something you can you can give answers that aren't evasive or dishonest but say look let's see this in perspective let's see this in this in this context yeah yeah but I will just say you know I can I can tell that I'm biased in this in this way to say that I would vote for him just because he is vegan sure when I last voted in local elections I really did look into every candidate and some of them didn't have a website some of them didn't have any kind of presence so I really just voted for the ones that actually seem to be putting forth an effort like the ones that actually had a website the ones who had a platform at all not necessarily a good plan um yeah I think if if it were the last elections that I've been voting in and he was an option and you know yeah we'll see how his campaign goes but if you actually you know yeah comes up with some platform that I agree with in some way yes then yeah you know when you're in a political debate and one side is trading in generalities in platitudes and the other side is using we normally say is using facts that have a face I hate to say that's political jargon it's whatever it is what it is you know so if one person is talking about a platitude like compassion and the other person says vote for me there will be zero homeless people in that Park downtown within four years that has a face you will be able to play with your kids in that Park without drug addicts and almost being in that Park that's my commitment that's what I'm gonna achieve yeah you know guess who gets the applause and gets to get the vote because one side is using facts that have a face and once that is not now another issue here of taking you to the beaches here and I've told you there's really no swimming because water pollution in the beaches what if I mean ecology is vague both sides can represent ecology one says I represent ecology and the other side says human beings should be able to swim you and your children should be able to put on your swim trunks and swim at cadbury Bay or at this Beach or that Beach you name specific Beach you say last year 167 days of the year the water was too polluted to swim in I'm committed to that those are facts that have a face and you see you got to put the face on it you got to say there's a person and they're swimming Trump's going to the beach you know you you flush it out you make it a bit human so that's that's an aspect of politicking yeah thanks for thanks talking this through with me babe um you know I say again what I said the beginning this video this is not like offering criticism of a film that's already been edited and brought to a theater near you these are these are very much political campaign that's that's it's step one in many ways it's possible this video will have a positive influence or raise positive questions about the future of that campaign it's possible it will result in me being kicked out of another Facebook and ostracized from another vegan group and that Jordan will never talk me again you know and I say also it's it's really really hard giving advice that nobody wants to hear and this is why ultimately for me after now years of experience in vegan activism and before that experience with ecological activism First Nations activism Southeast Asian politics you know various spheres I mean now my conclusion is that to have a basis for activism type of platform for activism we're gonna go back to school and learn how to bake bread because if you're baking cakes you're baking bread you're baking pastries whether that's to build bridges between you and other vegans to collaborate or it's a form of outreach to start the conversation people are not vegans in so many different ways I'm hoping that's gonna be a more positive basis for my future gaming engagement and vegan politics
what I usually do I could separately make a video talking about these issues in a more global broadly applicable manner that would make sense for any political context where vegans are thinking about taking the vegan message and adapting it to go to the polls to actually participate in electoral politics to try to get people elected but I struggled with kind of take 1 take 2 take 3 of trying to do that I thought you know what let's stop and let's actually make a video just talking about vegan politics here in Victoria British Columbia Canada so this is one case study and I want to say also you know this has come up when people criticize me for being a critic they say how do you criticize this is very very different from offering film criticism after a movie is already in theaters when your criticism can't possibly change the movie the reality is I'm offering this criticism at a time when the elections we're talking about are very much ongoing they're at step one they're just the beginning when the criticism were having could really raise productive questions and could stimulate people to come to new Answers and adopt new strategies and to learn more from the experience of what's going on here politically as it happens so this is not criticism um you know if you criticize a film nobody's gonna go back and re-edit the film in response their criticism it can't really have those kinds of positive outcomes right and there are positive things about what we can learn and who we can work with and what can come out of this um Victoria is not a big city but it is the capital city of this province so politics is a big industry here it employs a lot of people a lot of people who are employed with the government and the scene for vegan activism is very small and I think I can safely say it is largely closed so I've come here and some people here do recognize me as a kind of YouTube celebrity within veganism I don't know if I mentioned this to you Bay but what one person I was posting was actually posting about buying secondhand equipment for the kitchen we just furnished this apartment and someone I remember replied to that post by saying Oh YouTube's loyalty that is commented this so there are some people there vegans that washed up on YouTube they they know me this way yeah but in terms of who are the local leaders and activists here in Victoria they are not happy to see me they're not none of them are interested in coming on my channel and doing an interview promoting their work on my channel none of them are inviting me to come to a protest and on the contrary when I volunteered to go to and participate in a a vegan protest not to specify what kind of protest I was kicked out of the Facebook group so you know and I've asked I've asked Jordan himself the god this video is really about what happened why was I kicked out of his Facebook why was I not you know and these seem groups are constantly preaching openness and cooperation I have videos I could link to right now on YouTube where Jordan and his girlfriend Cory are preaching the importance of cooperation collaboration so on and it's like well none of you can cooperate with me when I get off the airplane I get back from two years in China and I'm really just here to cooperate with people and and do some positive yeah so it's a small town the amount of talent here is is finite and you know I wonder look I said this earlier in the bodybuilder video when I sit down in that room it's a bunch of people planning for a municipal election planning for participating in electoral politics I don't think anyone is happy to hear me say because this how introduce myself my degree is in political science from University of Toronto I have experience working in a municipal political campaign planning and running a campaign I learned a lot from that experience only they'll haven't once in my life was a very small campaign really there were only two people involved so the Green Party campaign to get someone elected in Toronto as alderman or city councilor however you want to ever you want to term it is the local government you know representative but I was really involved in that campaign I learned so much it was a pivotal turning point in my life and how I think about politics in so many ways and this is really what I'm into you know I'd really like to pause look at you so as positive that message is I think the reception in the room is was pretty icy I think nobody wants to hear that I think I mean politics it's the ultimate topic on which everybody wants to feel like they're an expert and nobody wants to recognize that there are specialized the areas of expertise there might be something you learn by getting a degree in political science by formally studying this and what have you people want it's cuz it politics it overlaps so much with a sense of identity and morality and everything else I think nobody's happening that what I said just to finish notes cuz you already know that it's you were there what I said the bodybuilder was by contrast I know that same were to that same room of people would have responded so positively if idea said hey I'm a student in baking college I'm gonna study and become a vegan Baker I'm gonna bake bread and cakes for you guys isn't that great you would have you would have gotten so much warmth than positive interest yeah I was just going to say I do remember one woman saying that basically do what you have to do to get elected and once you're elected then you can focus on animal rights issues when you're in an elected position right so that was a positive response I think influenced by what you say you're right knowing what I said the meeting in couple other people there was a man sitting on the left to who reacted who was taking on board what I said in terms of the phrasing or just I'm partly gonna respond to just that nomenclature using its it is different when we talk about animal rights and we talk about veganism one of the things I said this in the meeting very briefly but you and I discussed it afterwards - it's an interesting point the way they were talking about veganism was as if this campaign to be elected would be implicitly and inescapably about the fact that this guy is vegan the people would either vote for him or vote against him because he's vegan like period alright and one of the things I said in the election was I said sorry I said in the meeting about the election I said that is just as misguided as me running for office here and thinking people are gonna vote for me or vote against me because I'm a Jew that's part of your background that's part of the little blurb on your bio you know the bio you know he happens to be involved in veganism and animal rights that that is but the vast majority of people will just regard that as as if it were part of your ethnicity you know that's how it is to outsiders about veganism and understandably so the the current leader of the NDP so the NDP is our Democrat Party in Canada the most left-wing of the of the mainstream party he's uh he is I think in the past was vegetarian and says he's gonna become vegan and you know he has a long beard and wears a turban and you know in terms of who judged him or who votes for who votes against him it speaks well of Canada I don't think his ethnicity really matters that much sure maybe it matters 5% or 10% Amin matter a little bit but I'm ok with it there are exceptions I think you know Barack Obama does as does his ethnicity matter you know in a certain momentous circumstances in history it matters but most of the time people are going to commit to vote for you or not vote for you because of the promises you make in the spirit of public service now it may sound like a let's bring down earth what do I mean I get I said this at the meeting in the last City elections we had here in Victoria I was here during them pretty much every candidate was known as the guy who was for the bridge or the guy who was against the bridge we also have a controversy here but sewage treatment the guy who was in favor of this plan for sewage treatment the guy who was against it there were just a few issues like that where the public knows your commitment to the issue and you have maybe won a sentence in the public imagination where you can tell people this is what I'm about this is what I'm gonna do for you does it matter whether or not you're Jewish whether your diet is kosher whether or not your background is jiying or Hindu or Sikh you know you're from India none of that matters nearly so much as what you're saying in that one sentence hey this is my commitment hey I'm gonna make sure we do build the bridge or I'm gonna make sure we don't build the bridge I'm gonna make sure the suits you this kind of thing and I mean I that may sound low and mean-spirited it's not if you're elected to government as a city councilor you are a civil servant you're serving the public interest and you've got to tell them what you're gonna do in that subway service you've got to commit to that and it's they're only gonna be a few things like that that you commit to and then for 99.9% of the public the fact that you're vegan matters as little as the fact that you may be Hindu or Buddhist or Jewish I get unless you're living in an intensely racist society where it really matters where the anti-semitism is such a big deal that you're actually campaigning on your Judaism as an issue you know what I doubt it so that was that was a very strange thing in terms of self perception episode but in terms of the way you just phrased in this comment you're talking about animal rights sorry said you have more to say under that heading I mean look you're not being elected to a position of government that has anything to do with animal rights and this guy this candidate Jordan Richard he does have a background in campaigning for animal rights he also has a background in drug rehab and treatment for drug addicts homeless people trying to get people into better jobs better housing situations and what have you um I'm sorry I thought there was a third plank something else I was gonna mention is his background no okay given the advice of maybe making one of the campaign promises right right right so that guy and that was a guess right that wasn't something I I think I raised I think other people in the room were also talking about that right so those the possibility you could build this campaign on on with the rent being too high in Victoria right so you know these are kind of ideas ideas that were in the room but you know um you know you can choose to campaign on the promise that you're gonna solve the drug problem here in Victoria that's a problem that matters to everybody and that's a problem that is in your jurisdiction if you're elected this position you say look if I'm elected this is my position on the drug epidemic and the city this is how I'm going to solve it or this is my position on homelessness and here's what I'm gonna do about it you can have specific policies that you commit to but when I asked him about that and again I spoke very briefly at this meeting his response was to retreat to no he doesn't support any position on those issues he just represents compassion a compassionate approach to these issues and this is I've talked about in a few YouTube videos this is one of those problems in politics of people perceiving weaknesses strengths where people think the Viger I make this message the stronger it is and that's the exact opposite the truth claiming that you represent compassion is really weak compared to coming forward and saying this is my position on building the bridge this is my position on sewage treatment this is my specific promise to you the public the vote or this is why you shouldn't why you should vote for me yeah I thought it was interesting that in this meeting there was a very first meeting for his campaign yeah and he said I don't want to talk about specific policy issues yes you're right um which I think at this point can be understandable but also you know you should be thinking about it well I I really disagree so this comes back to this image of there's a criticism of the Rolling Stones do you record an album so that you can go it on tour or do you go on tour to record your album right um you're right he said he didn't want to make any statement about any specific policies he endorses so why you ready for government yeah why is it you're coming to this meeting and you're saying you're gonna have focus groups and ask the public what your position should be now there are some situations in politics where some of that you know can go on but the fundamental concept of leadership in politics is exactly that you come into this race with a commitment to achieve something so I think the the clearest example of this being really successful for someone who's really a political outsider I really didn't have money behind him or polio support Jesse the body Ventura the wrestler Jesse Ventura key to him with us he was a wrestler he was a professional wrestler and he had a list of about four or five things he wanted to accomplish if elected they were really specific you know with legal reforms and then he said he would accomplish those things and that was it he would retire but you know there was nothing else he was going to accomplish he wasn't a career politician and he to my knowledge she did he lived up for that he passed the new laws exactly what he promised then that's the point you don't have to trust this person in some more vague broad way to say oh if I'm elected this this and this is what I'm going to accomplish and that's it that's what you're voting for you're voting for these issues that matter to you but as opposed to coming in and saying hey I represent compassion something very vague something any political party can claim to represent yeah if you vote for me you're gonna get a compassionate approach to these issues okay so what are you actually gonna do about homelessness what are you actually gonna do about drug addicts what do you actually need to do about the bridge or sewage treatment or whatever the issue is this tells me nothing it's not a promise I can hold you to yeah it's not a commitment to doing something positive for the for the public it's also something I don't think you can define yourself I don't think it's as strong to define yourself as being anti like I think he mentioned he doesn't like the idea of throwing drug addicts in prison right so being anti that you know a different perspective on it a different option is weak yeah yeah people are gonna vote for solutions not for problems plus the word compassion look something I really learned from experience I mean I guess I do this in theory before but I did the experience of the political campaign I was a part of in Toronto I really learned how crucial it is to find an issue that you alone represent for it to be concrete specific Waggett wedge issue and then make sure that your competition can't take away from you you say hey I'm the one candidate who has this position on this issue I'm the one candidate who will deliver this outcome for you the public if the other guy that won't and it's got to be something specific it if you like I started off being involved with politics in the Green Party but what I learned the hard way and again maybe I knew this in theory but I guess I didn't really think it through till was actually involved in it in an electoral campaign if you say we represent ecology the Liberal Party can say that they also represent ecology yeah if you say we we represent less air pollution the Conservative Party can say they represent less air pollution ah but when you say we will stop this power plant from being constructed now it's different the Conservative Party will commit to a vague concept of improving air quality the Liberal Party will commit to a vague concept of ecology ah but on this powerplant that all the other parties are in bed with you know they're already committed to being assertive we're the guys will stop it will cancel this project no of course multibillion-dollar approach any power plant is a huge budget project right yeah but it's you can't campaign on compassion you can't campaign on equality the others have compassion equality ecology none of these things they're all they're all just vague Maxim's that almost any political party or political candidate can claim represent yeah I was just I wanted to say he didn't actually say with regards to veganism what actual policies he would be against like right no he did mention horse-drawn carriages which I know in the past has been one of his one of his I don't know if you would say like you know one thing that he's trying to stop in the city it's one of the issues that got him into the newspapers he's had newspaper covers over his protests against or some carrots right okay so without strong carriages and also deer calling but he did say like I'm going to run on this right form of being anti deer calling or we're anti horse-drawn carriages and I think he has to realize that most people will not vote on that basis because it doesn't affect their lives well so like rents or like you know that's I think why he realizes he could focus on his strength of having a pest and drug rehabilitation are you campaigning to win his answer was yes he's actually trying to get elected and that was talked about or are you campaigning to be a platform for veganism or for some other message I would be totally happy to run in an election where I know I can't win I said look I'm running in this election to ask tough questions about ecology veganism health policy you name it you know I could have some PCRM style stuff about you know why are we encouraging stop feeding dairy to our kids in school right hey stop feet why do we have dairy and eggs being fed to people in hospitals yeah I'm you can ask this so it's it's it's illegal to smoke cigarettes in hospitals but we feed them fried eggs you know what's that about so yeah I could make a list of things but say look I'm running to raise these issues there the issues I wanted or attention to I don't think I can win but I think there's another kind of moral victory and ever since that's not his approach interestingly but if you're playing to win and the card you're playing is I'm the guy who's against deer culling or I'm the guy who's against horse-drawn carriages we know exactly what the outcomes gonna be that's what you did in the last election which was 2017 it's not ancient history this is 2018 who's to the in 2017 you've got 102 votes so I mean maybe this time it'll be a hundred and ten but you know running on those issues that even vegans don't support you about yeah cuz we're about above 2% of the population here is vegan here in Victoria people you're not even getting that yeah because it's a different election he thinks because we've got the option of voting for eight people that someone will be willing to use one of their eight votes on him if they see compassion if they see this this term but yeah probably right you'd probably get some votes that way yeah I don't know so yeah I think even on even going with the same strategy he did last time he probably will get more votes than the last one right you only had one vote sure that is true there is a difference that in the the prior election where you got only hundred two votes each person voting only had one vote and this time they have multiple votes that they can apportion on the ballot in a little bit more of a dynamic way so that that is true it may also be that he gets more votes because he has lousy or competition in the last election he running for the animal Alliance Party of Canada he got fewer votes than the Libertarian Party which is a tiny party so I mean that's that's how a marginal you are right now you're less successful that you could learn from what the libertarians are doing and double your number of votes I mean it's you're at this level right and for me I mean something like horse-drawn carriages that's marginal and dubious even within veganism I'm you know whereas something like saying hey if I'm elected I'm gonna challenge the school boards why are you teaching our children to drink milk when we know it's not healthy I think that's a strong suit for veganism that's something that might interest people who are who are not but you know my advice you know if you are actually playing the win if you're actually trying to get elected what I said to him was you have to pick a wedge issue and make it your own something a distinctive issue that matters to the public that's that's only your issue that other people aren't aren't standing on and see this is the other thing keep so I'm just giving ahead a bit but he said in response to this advice which I'm not fully fleshing out here he said well it didn't matter because everyone knew him as the animal rights guy so he was just gonna run as the animal rights guy anyway cuz that's how everybody knew it right no I didn't say this but it was like at the time I was thinking right everybody is a hundred and two people okay a hundred and two people voted for last night it's just not the case view of a mass won't leak on the basis of any warrants but what I did so I didn't say that to him what I didn't say then next my next piece of advice to him was look you're thinking about this the wrong way on in this election I said a lot of people in this room mentioned the drug addiction issue and your background is someone who counsels drug addicts videos that a lot of people in this room right now work cited about the possibility of you making the drug crisis your wedge issue your go-to issue I said if you become the anti-drug guy whatever want to say if that's you come then for this election for the perspective of the electorate that's who you are if you decide to make your wedge issue the low-rent issue if you say the rent is too damn high you're gonna make a campaign over-promising to have lower rent for people then for the electorate voting for you for this election that's who you are that's what you represent that's what you're promising to do and the fact that you happen to be vegan or happen to have a background animal rights this is almost as irrelevant as whether or not your background is being Jewish or what-have-you nor German I think he is German but you know whatever your background maybe that is not what people are voting for that's not who you are for the public in this election that's not what you're committing to do that's not what you're campaigning on and I mean that I think the whole language of what I was explaining to them was really very foreign to them I think their way of thinking about politics is on a deep level not in a shallow level is identity politics that all they want to do is say hey I'm a good person this is Who I am I am compassionate vote for compassion vote for me and there's no I mean there's really no sympathy with the position of the voter that the voter has probably a list of complaints about things in Victoria they think are terrible like you know in most cities it's something like they want the roads to be prepared we actually don't have that problem here the roads are fine you know but something something like that that they're going to polls they're animated by and they want to hear from you your commitments on exactly those issues and they're only going to be one two or three of them building the bridge building the sewage treatment or it could be what are you doing with the homeless of the drug addicts what are you doing about the rent being too high whatever it is you know I don't know identity politics maybe that's why people like your Facebook page you know maybe you know the sense of you being a good person of your running on that in social media maybe that does take you you kind of so far and no further but it seems to me a fundamental misunderstanding of the role of leadership that you are running as a political leader not as someone who asked the public what your what your position ought to be but as someone who's you know someone who's telling them I'm committed to achieving this goal if you vote for me that's the one gonna achieve and a fundamental lack of understanding but the civil servant attitude that you're what as a public servant saying this is what I'm gonna do in your service if you give me your vote yeah you got more you see like was it something I think most people have a negative opinion of politicians in general yes so trying to say that I'm a good person I'm a compassionate person I also yeah that's really it's extra hole oh right yeah I mean Donald Trump ran on saying he's not a rapist and you know Hillary Clinton I ran on promise saying that Bill Clinton was not a rapist and oh well you know you look at the allegations with sexual propriety on both sides and it's pretty dark all over but yeah um I really feel that so that's a perception of weakness as strength as as soon as you want to talk about specific policies of just trying to retreat behind compassion or even ecology or what-have-you saying no you know if you don't commit now if you don't commit before go to the ballot box how can we expect the whole video count how we expect to be accountable after you've been elected after you've got a budget and a salary to carry these things out yeah and I guess another thing that I would want to talk about we have you know you and I agree on this but I think there is a splinter within veganism of people who are animal lovers yes not animal lovers but you know obviously we care about animals and care about the well-being of animals but you know how is that going to be perceived by the public when you say you know I know was a joke but uh his girlfriend said it's a dream of mine to have this funny ad for the campaign like yep Jordan would be walking around a park and be like interacting with animals like deer and cats and dogs right you know cause he's the candidate who represents the animals right yeah right and you know we had watched one of his videos where he was at some gathering of people and he told he told them to vote for vote for the animals like you know one vote for the animals that's right so if you're going to you know if you have pets like somebody right if you love your dog you should totally be a vote well that that's the hardest part I find that's what I found her is to describe to outsiders by the scenario I talked to someone else about this this morning over Skype and he said oh so the guys campaigning on a vegan platform and I'd say no not really it's not a vegan platform it's a it's a for the animals it's all of the animals platform and if you do that so he already has a track record you can get 102 votes but it's a totally surreal political platform to run on that's like uh it's much more Korean to run on just to give an example an anti-war platform you can be a vegan person who supports animal rights and says hey I'm mad as hell about the war I want Canada to leave the war make big morale thing out of that you can be the anti-war person yeah and people at least know what they're voting for you know this thing about about crafting his political message about like the idea the animals love him and he loves animals it's weird and you can watch the videos yourself on YouTube they have very very few views compared to even my own modest you know number of viewers on on the internet um you know I think it's safe to say you look at those videos nobody wants to hear it yeah well during the lecture so this was an event entirely attended by his supporters I mean you know what naturally the nature of the event I think there was one guy who was there because his mom brought him who wasn't really sport there couple people of that but basically everyone is there because they support him and I've got to say for most of this event the majority of people were bored I can't say everyone was bored but there were a lot of long periods where you know you see her sitting in the room you look around the table this was boring to people and his lectures that I have sat through I forced myself to sit on YouTube and listen to his lectures we sitting at a podium at an all candidates event that means it's a debate basically where each of the candidates makes a statement they don't really directly debate each other so much but you know you have contrasting lectures from each of the candidates before an election and I I'm so biased in this guy's favor right I'm also vegan I also care about ecology there's a lot there are a lot of guys there and I find this boring I find it totally boring and what I care about politics I care about someone's all the stuff I'm passionate about oh you know all these issues but it's like you can't even reach me you're alienating me and you're boring me with your approach to this issue that really can be symptomatic of a bottom line cause so look I I brought my girlfriend of this event I've known Jordan not personally but know some extent I've known a person I should talk about some person stuff for more than three years um I didn't know the going to svet I didn't know what his platform would be I did assume there would be more of a spirit of him learning the lessons of the failure of his last campaign and taking on a new direction or being open to seek unity direction in this in this campaign and it was really the opposite yes and it was a hug percent committed to repeating exactly the errors others 2007's more votes because of these right right you probably will get more votes he'll probably give more than 102 votes but I don't think he'll win and if I'm wrong I mean I'll be happy I guess you know be one more vegan in a position of power in Canada I guess but let me ask you you have no commitment to to politics in Victoria you know I can't vote here but having been to this meeting and have him here he made a statement do you want to vote for Jordan Roger well I think as you said having a vegan in politics yeah I think I would be inclined to vote for him yeah he seems like I'm put together presentable like that just generally you know like he seems like a professional guys can't be professionally hmm I think I probably would like in this context of having eight votes for council people yeah yeah probably one of my votes but it depends on you know other issues that the other candidates present if I feel rationally about something that they promise that there is a candidate that's saying I'm going to lower the rent committed to it you know it's too damn high yeah if I had to choose between one so so choose that rather than deer calling or write a platform of getting rid of horse-drawn carriages to me obviously it's pretty obvious what is more important to me from either there were a lot of red flags you know in this already and you know look I I guess I can say I sympathize with anyone who wants to take on the challenge of taking the vegan message and adapting it tab impact at the polls you know in that sense I'm a fan of what he's doing or what in theory he's he's trying to do but in terms of what his actual platform is and what his message is there were a lot there were a lot of red flags yeah and you know I know from things he said previously but also from things that were said this meat there was talking about you know violent protests about burning down vivisectionist laboratories remember there was the discussion about anti-vivisection ism in style and apart from what he actually believes or what he actually said what you saw with that part of the discussion was that on the level of rhetoric or debate or discussion he's not capable of dealing with that well right yeah hmm so you know so that's that's a red flag for me you know no matter whether it's sincere or insincere or whatever it's like well as a vegan as a vegan in politics that's the kind of issue you've you've got to be able to deal with yeah you know and I've had um I rarely answer insincerely I mean you see I'm overly honest in most situations but I have been in political situations where somebody asked me was something like this like well you know would you abolish this or would you make this that illegal and one of the answers I give is you know we're in the middle of like a 300 year struggle like some of these issues like look I can give you my opinion but it doesn't matter like fundamentally you know like normally it's something like declawing cats or something would I make it illegal to declawed cats we just had a law passed for that in eastern Canada Nova Scotia and New Brunswick one of those they just made it illegal to declawed cats but I mean part of my answer really is look you know we're facing this crisis to do with factory farming and mass production of meat and what have you you know we have a lot to tackle here but you know if you want my specific position on declawing of cats you know we're in the middle of a 300 year struggle this is it's gonna be centuries before a lot of this stuff gets gets resolved so this is not really something you can you can give answers that aren't evasive or dishonest but say look let's see this in perspective let's see this in this in this context yeah yeah but I will just say you know I can I can tell that I'm biased in this in this way to say that I would vote for him just because he is vegan sure when I last voted in local elections I really did look into every candidate and some of them didn't have a website some of them didn't have any kind of presence so I really just voted for the ones that actually seem to be putting forth an effort like the ones that actually had a website the ones who had a platform at all not necessarily a good plan um yeah I think if if it were the last elections that I've been voting in and he was an option and you know yeah we'll see how his campaign goes but if you actually you know yeah comes up with some platform that I agree with in some way yes then yeah you know when you're in a political debate and one side is trading in generalities in platitudes and the other side is using we normally say is using facts that have a face I hate to say that's political jargon it's whatever it is what it is you know so if one person is talking about a platitude like compassion and the other person says vote for me there will be zero homeless people in that Park downtown within four years that has a face you will be able to play with your kids in that Park without drug addicts and almost being in that Park that's my commitment that's what I'm gonna achieve yeah you know guess who gets the applause and gets to get the vote because one side is using facts that have a face and once that is not now another issue here of taking you to the beaches here and I've told you there's really no swimming because water pollution in the beaches what if I mean ecology is vague both sides can represent ecology one says I represent ecology and the other side says human beings should be able to swim you and your children should be able to put on your swim trunks and swim at cadbury Bay or at this Beach or that Beach you name specific Beach you say last year 167 days of the year the water was too polluted to swim in I'm committed to that those are facts that have a face and you see you got to put the face on it you got to say there's a person and they're swimming Trump's going to the beach you know you you flush it out you make it a bit human so that's that's an aspect of politicking yeah thanks for thanks talking this through with me babe um you know I say again what I said the beginning this video this is not like offering criticism of a film that's already been edited and brought to a theater near you these are these are very much political campaign that's that's it's step one in many ways it's possible this video will have a positive influence or raise positive questions about the future of that campaign it's possible it will result in me being kicked out of another Facebook and ostracized from another vegan group and that Jordan will never talk me again you know and I say also it's it's really really hard giving advice that nobody wants to hear and this is why ultimately for me after now years of experience in vegan activism and before that experience with ecological activism First Nations activism Southeast Asian politics you know various spheres I mean now my conclusion is that to have a basis for activism type of platform for activism we're gonna go back to school and learn how to bake bread because if you're baking cakes you're baking bread you're baking pastries whether that's to build bridges between you and other vegans to collaborate or it's a form of outreach to start the conversation people are not vegans in so many different ways I'm hoping that's gonna be a more positive basis for my future gaming engagement and vegan politics