Joe Vegan will hate me 5ever (but I still got love for him!)
24 October 2016 [link youtube]
Youtube Automatic Transcription
yo what's up it's hard for me to make
this video brief because if I get into rehearsing history of what happened between myself and Joe vegan things get long-winded quick on the other hand if I make this too brief I'll sound like a jerk I'm just heaping scorn and Joe vegan at a time when he's obviously going through a kind of personal crisis to me it was obvious several weeks ago that he was already going through a personal crisis he made videos where he talked about being light-hearted and just having fun with it but in his voice and in his eyes you could see for him this was not like hearted at all he sounded morose he sounded very upset he sounded very concerned about the game he was playing in its consequences which includes the consequences of people like me perhaps me more than anyone else because I know I'm one of the people who really talked to him in a very raw very honest way about how emotionally devastating some of his videos were for me we'll talk I don't pretend to be a tough guy but as I said in other context I'm tougher than some of these guys it is weird for me because part of what Joe vegan is now saying about himself is actually much more harsh than any criticism I ever offered him I think it's true in general he laments that he has become part of the problem and in a much more nuanced in sympathetic way that was what I was trying to communicate in because he did not intend to be part of the problem he wanted to be part of the solution I think he went into this with good intentions and as he has now said himself money and popularity and pandering to his audience led him down a path were instead he ended up becoming part of the problem with that being said he's still morally superior to vegan cheetah he never did to me any of the things she has done he never did to me other things that for instance Joe best has done I do not think that Joe vegan has in a malicious way sought to slander me or defame me I do not think he ever bought into the sport of slander which has become normal in the vegan seen in the vegan drama scene and the irony is I started a small foundation I started a charity drive called vegans against violence and defamation we raised six thousand five hundred dollars in one day to try to end this culture of defamation within veganism would it become normal will gradually would it become neural and instead what I've seen is while my court case has gone ahead which is wonderful it's doing the right thing for the right reasons for case ain't over yet everyone's innocent til proven guilty I have no reason to think the outcomes will be positive but um instead what I've seen is that that problem the violence and defamation threats of violence definition it's metastasized it spread instead of being focused in one point like a star it's become a constellation in the same way that two years ago I don't know over 100 channels tried to imitate durianrider um to get the little bit of money and fame that he had going in the same way I don't know maybe a hundred channels are now trying to imitate cheetah to try to get that little bit of money and fame and a lot of people don't understand what it is they're imitating but they don't fully understand what is there imitating but the the sport of slander this this business of defamation uh you know being used in this way sadly it's only become more more common and again Joe without having bad intentions I think step by step like a boiling frog like a slippery slope you know he really ended up being part of the problem that he was trying to address that he was trying to make a if anything a positive contribution to originally through through satire because satire can be a positive contribution can be an important contribution to a culture and there was a time I mean I can't go through the whole list of what happened to me and you're being but there was a time when I really sent him positive feedback and I did so out of sympathy because I imagine if I was in his position I would want to hear exactly the kind of positive feedback i sent him I can remember for example I sent him an email updating him because I had a private conversation with Jason Fazzino and Pizzi know and I we both were laughing about some recent jokes that Joe vegan him eight against Pitino and against me and I just sent you a vegan the Sherman's hey you know just so you know me and Pacino we're talking to that and we were both laughing about your video like we're both not offended i remember i mentioned by contrast somebody else i know you know who someone else I know through the internet we're not good friends someone else oh no who was offended by the same video you know so it's just a short message saying look I'm not offended not worried about this so I did send the guy positive support I did offer to support his channel back when he had very few viewers in fewer viewers than I had when he was first starting up when he'd first switch to the comedy format offered many many times to have him come on skype I've him do a podcast me my channel my initial respect for him was based on his honesty in dealing with his own past as a former true believer in during my turn freely as someone who bought a bicycle and packed up the bicycle and flew to Thailand to go worship at the feet of the cult leader and he really was honest and reflecting on his cult-like attachment to that that group that subculture within veganism it's not cold lake for everybody but is for some people and that he grew out of that or he escaped from that mentality um so that was my first reason for being interested the guy I wanted to support the guy I wanted to get to know him uh now you know in various ways he did [ __ ] up again I don't pretend to be anybody I'm not I go to the gym my do push-ups I lift weights I remember what Dom Bauer used to flatter me by saying I was the most macho guy on YouTube a few people have alluded to my supposed ma Jonas but in terms of why I'm on youtube at all I'm very honest and raw in talking about the emotional content of my life if I wasn't I feel I would have nothing to nothing to offer on camera and both on youtube and in private communication with Joe I was really honest with him about the ways in which the game he was playing was hurting me was damaging me was negatively impacting my life and then the question is what is he gonna do from there so thanks for anyone who's in the drama trade anyone who makes videos remotely along those lines those are questions you have to be prepared to deal with and if you're not prepared to deal with them what someone like me comes brings them to you then you're facing a fork in the road I guess he may be recognized that fork in the road a little bit too late I really offered Joe friendship and support back when it could help them and part of friendship not every friendship has to be you know close you don't have to talk about you know your family life or your ex girlfriend or anything you can have a friendship that's more businesslike you know there's no reason that Joe and I would have been close friends but part of friendship is exchange of information and i have seen Joe get dragged into a bunch of situations where he didn't know what was going on he really just needed to get the information from someone he could trust and someone who would be honest with him and that could have been me I mean you know Joe believe these ridiculous lies about the secret facebook group if he could have just talked to me about that I could have cleared up his confusion and dry what was really going on I was a member of that secret Facebook group and everything cheetah said about it was a lie and she didn't knew it was a lie he was just manufacturing dream out of nothing but Joe obviously got very upset about that and very involved that when he shouldn't have if he could have talked to someone like me or just me then you know that would have saved him a lot of agony and you know obviously the whole thing with my legal case in Thailand if he could have just talked to me if he could have just accepted the Olive Branch offered him again and again where I said look if you want to know what's happening I can show you more documents I can talk you through what's happening I can explain to you cuz most of these legal documents they don't mean anything if you're not a lawyer if you're just looking at the back you really need to have that conversation to understand what's going on and why why the court case took so long court cases are long and boring I don't know what impression you got from movies and television but it's not allowed to say but you know he had every opportunity to do the right thing on that and he didn't take it I mean at the end of the day there was there was a time I hate that phrase by the way I think I think that's the first time i've used the phrase the end of the day on youtube this is a rushed video i got to get back to studying Chinese I really don't have time to make this video but I want to because Joe's obviously going through a kind of emotional crisis right now um but at the end of the day um look you know there was a time when I assumed I would be doing a fundraiser to support Joe's vision for you know running an animal sanctuary what I thought I would have him on the channel and we would discuss the ethical issues and the economic issues and his plants the animal sanctuary and were ultimately i mean i have a small audience but my audience includes people who are really hard core political vegan activist people who really support the cause and includes people who really would have been important donors for his animal sanctuary you could have a large audience but if it's a bunch of teenagers you know who aren't really committed long-term those are not people are going to support your sanctuary long-term so I mean I think he could have engaged with me in a really productive dialogue about issues he really cares about and I really care about and he probably could have explored and come to a better understanding of those issues or at least he could have become more practice in explaining to an audience his position on those issues about the animal sanctuary and his plans and the economics etc of it I could have been very positive thing for him and me and the people within my audience who choose to support vision was would have donated am on a shallower level there was a time when I was planning a big event in Thailand that I invited Joe to and I invited be Conchita to and Jason Pacino and vegan lass was going to come a whole bunch of vegan youtubers we're all going to come be in the same place in the same time in Thailand and I would have done a fundraiser for Joe everyone knows Joe doesn't have a lot of money I also believe it or not don't have an autumn I despite the rumors that I'm a millionaire or that I work for the CIA I don't have a lot of money so I really could have imagined doing a fundraiser where we say look can we try to raise a thousand dollars to pay for Joe's Joe and his wife to have this airplane ticket so they can come to this event in Thailand I would have just been transparent with the audience this money is not going to save the animals this money is going to let Joe come to Thailand and give them a checklist of what he would do in Thailand whatever he's going to visit an elephant park and break down weeping when he sees how badly treated the animals are and we're gonna film on camera weeping in front of the elephants and the elephants aren't chains you know whatever positive stuff like that I mean Joe he's British he responded to my talking but that stuff by saying like oh well I never asked you for anything you know he made these ridiculous videos he was always mischaracterizing what I was doing a channel was like oh you made a negative video about me you know watch the actual name what does that even mean a negative whatever Joe did the wrong thing at every single juncture in terms was relationship with me do I resent that not really I reach out positively to vegans all the time who are scumbags and who have really hurt me in a malicious way as i mentioned recently i have even reached out to vegan Ava who is a terrible human being but she's vegan and she wants to be a vegan activist to some extent you try to appreciate people not for who they are but for who they aspire to be you try to appreciate people not for the damage they've done in the past but for the positive difference in the world they aspire to make in the future you try to have some generosity of spirit with people I tried that with Joe and in the future maybe I'll try that again it definitely wouldn't be hard for Joe to pick up the pieces and to create a youtube channel or just ate forget YouTube he can talk to me without YouTube you don't need to have YouTube to talk to the human beings it wouldn't be hard for Joe to have a network of people who support his positive aspiration and not because of his former notoriety as a comedic figure as a satirist but simply because they really believe in the cause and on YouTube those are the people you want to meet those the people you want to know those the connections you want to make long-term having 10,000 fans who don't give a [ __ ] about you who don't give a [ __ ] about veganism is not worth much I would rather have 200 fans who are really down to die for the cause who are really down to live for the cause who are really trying to make something positive happen for ecology for ethics for the animals for the future Joe vegans got a newborn kiddo I know what that's like I know exactly what it's like to raise a newborn baby during its first year of life while being a vegan on the internet I've been there I've done that at that time back when I had a blog before I even had a YouTube channel I was out here trying to make friends with trying to make connections with other vegan parents it's hard you know it's it's lonely I don't know it's it's busy and crowded and lonely all at the same time I can relate to everything the guy is going through and I hope he rumbles around uh you know in his heart his soul in his spirit and he comes up with a new way to do something positive
this video brief because if I get into rehearsing history of what happened between myself and Joe vegan things get long-winded quick on the other hand if I make this too brief I'll sound like a jerk I'm just heaping scorn and Joe vegan at a time when he's obviously going through a kind of personal crisis to me it was obvious several weeks ago that he was already going through a personal crisis he made videos where he talked about being light-hearted and just having fun with it but in his voice and in his eyes you could see for him this was not like hearted at all he sounded morose he sounded very upset he sounded very concerned about the game he was playing in its consequences which includes the consequences of people like me perhaps me more than anyone else because I know I'm one of the people who really talked to him in a very raw very honest way about how emotionally devastating some of his videos were for me we'll talk I don't pretend to be a tough guy but as I said in other context I'm tougher than some of these guys it is weird for me because part of what Joe vegan is now saying about himself is actually much more harsh than any criticism I ever offered him I think it's true in general he laments that he has become part of the problem and in a much more nuanced in sympathetic way that was what I was trying to communicate in because he did not intend to be part of the problem he wanted to be part of the solution I think he went into this with good intentions and as he has now said himself money and popularity and pandering to his audience led him down a path were instead he ended up becoming part of the problem with that being said he's still morally superior to vegan cheetah he never did to me any of the things she has done he never did to me other things that for instance Joe best has done I do not think that Joe vegan has in a malicious way sought to slander me or defame me I do not think he ever bought into the sport of slander which has become normal in the vegan seen in the vegan drama scene and the irony is I started a small foundation I started a charity drive called vegans against violence and defamation we raised six thousand five hundred dollars in one day to try to end this culture of defamation within veganism would it become normal will gradually would it become neural and instead what I've seen is while my court case has gone ahead which is wonderful it's doing the right thing for the right reasons for case ain't over yet everyone's innocent til proven guilty I have no reason to think the outcomes will be positive but um instead what I've seen is that that problem the violence and defamation threats of violence definition it's metastasized it spread instead of being focused in one point like a star it's become a constellation in the same way that two years ago I don't know over 100 channels tried to imitate durianrider um to get the little bit of money and fame that he had going in the same way I don't know maybe a hundred channels are now trying to imitate cheetah to try to get that little bit of money and fame and a lot of people don't understand what it is they're imitating but they don't fully understand what is there imitating but the the sport of slander this this business of defamation uh you know being used in this way sadly it's only become more more common and again Joe without having bad intentions I think step by step like a boiling frog like a slippery slope you know he really ended up being part of the problem that he was trying to address that he was trying to make a if anything a positive contribution to originally through through satire because satire can be a positive contribution can be an important contribution to a culture and there was a time I mean I can't go through the whole list of what happened to me and you're being but there was a time when I really sent him positive feedback and I did so out of sympathy because I imagine if I was in his position I would want to hear exactly the kind of positive feedback i sent him I can remember for example I sent him an email updating him because I had a private conversation with Jason Fazzino and Pizzi know and I we both were laughing about some recent jokes that Joe vegan him eight against Pitino and against me and I just sent you a vegan the Sherman's hey you know just so you know me and Pacino we're talking to that and we were both laughing about your video like we're both not offended i remember i mentioned by contrast somebody else i know you know who someone else I know through the internet we're not good friends someone else oh no who was offended by the same video you know so it's just a short message saying look I'm not offended not worried about this so I did send the guy positive support I did offer to support his channel back when he had very few viewers in fewer viewers than I had when he was first starting up when he'd first switch to the comedy format offered many many times to have him come on skype I've him do a podcast me my channel my initial respect for him was based on his honesty in dealing with his own past as a former true believer in during my turn freely as someone who bought a bicycle and packed up the bicycle and flew to Thailand to go worship at the feet of the cult leader and he really was honest and reflecting on his cult-like attachment to that that group that subculture within veganism it's not cold lake for everybody but is for some people and that he grew out of that or he escaped from that mentality um so that was my first reason for being interested the guy I wanted to support the guy I wanted to get to know him uh now you know in various ways he did [ __ ] up again I don't pretend to be anybody I'm not I go to the gym my do push-ups I lift weights I remember what Dom Bauer used to flatter me by saying I was the most macho guy on YouTube a few people have alluded to my supposed ma Jonas but in terms of why I'm on youtube at all I'm very honest and raw in talking about the emotional content of my life if I wasn't I feel I would have nothing to nothing to offer on camera and both on youtube and in private communication with Joe I was really honest with him about the ways in which the game he was playing was hurting me was damaging me was negatively impacting my life and then the question is what is he gonna do from there so thanks for anyone who's in the drama trade anyone who makes videos remotely along those lines those are questions you have to be prepared to deal with and if you're not prepared to deal with them what someone like me comes brings them to you then you're facing a fork in the road I guess he may be recognized that fork in the road a little bit too late I really offered Joe friendship and support back when it could help them and part of friendship not every friendship has to be you know close you don't have to talk about you know your family life or your ex girlfriend or anything you can have a friendship that's more businesslike you know there's no reason that Joe and I would have been close friends but part of friendship is exchange of information and i have seen Joe get dragged into a bunch of situations where he didn't know what was going on he really just needed to get the information from someone he could trust and someone who would be honest with him and that could have been me I mean you know Joe believe these ridiculous lies about the secret facebook group if he could have just talked to me about that I could have cleared up his confusion and dry what was really going on I was a member of that secret Facebook group and everything cheetah said about it was a lie and she didn't knew it was a lie he was just manufacturing dream out of nothing but Joe obviously got very upset about that and very involved that when he shouldn't have if he could have talked to someone like me or just me then you know that would have saved him a lot of agony and you know obviously the whole thing with my legal case in Thailand if he could have just talked to me if he could have just accepted the Olive Branch offered him again and again where I said look if you want to know what's happening I can show you more documents I can talk you through what's happening I can explain to you cuz most of these legal documents they don't mean anything if you're not a lawyer if you're just looking at the back you really need to have that conversation to understand what's going on and why why the court case took so long court cases are long and boring I don't know what impression you got from movies and television but it's not allowed to say but you know he had every opportunity to do the right thing on that and he didn't take it I mean at the end of the day there was there was a time I hate that phrase by the way I think I think that's the first time i've used the phrase the end of the day on youtube this is a rushed video i got to get back to studying Chinese I really don't have time to make this video but I want to because Joe's obviously going through a kind of emotional crisis right now um but at the end of the day um look you know there was a time when I assumed I would be doing a fundraiser to support Joe's vision for you know running an animal sanctuary what I thought I would have him on the channel and we would discuss the ethical issues and the economic issues and his plants the animal sanctuary and were ultimately i mean i have a small audience but my audience includes people who are really hard core political vegan activist people who really support the cause and includes people who really would have been important donors for his animal sanctuary you could have a large audience but if it's a bunch of teenagers you know who aren't really committed long-term those are not people are going to support your sanctuary long-term so I mean I think he could have engaged with me in a really productive dialogue about issues he really cares about and I really care about and he probably could have explored and come to a better understanding of those issues or at least he could have become more practice in explaining to an audience his position on those issues about the animal sanctuary and his plans and the economics etc of it I could have been very positive thing for him and me and the people within my audience who choose to support vision was would have donated am on a shallower level there was a time when I was planning a big event in Thailand that I invited Joe to and I invited be Conchita to and Jason Pacino and vegan lass was going to come a whole bunch of vegan youtubers we're all going to come be in the same place in the same time in Thailand and I would have done a fundraiser for Joe everyone knows Joe doesn't have a lot of money I also believe it or not don't have an autumn I despite the rumors that I'm a millionaire or that I work for the CIA I don't have a lot of money so I really could have imagined doing a fundraiser where we say look can we try to raise a thousand dollars to pay for Joe's Joe and his wife to have this airplane ticket so they can come to this event in Thailand I would have just been transparent with the audience this money is not going to save the animals this money is going to let Joe come to Thailand and give them a checklist of what he would do in Thailand whatever he's going to visit an elephant park and break down weeping when he sees how badly treated the animals are and we're gonna film on camera weeping in front of the elephants and the elephants aren't chains you know whatever positive stuff like that I mean Joe he's British he responded to my talking but that stuff by saying like oh well I never asked you for anything you know he made these ridiculous videos he was always mischaracterizing what I was doing a channel was like oh you made a negative video about me you know watch the actual name what does that even mean a negative whatever Joe did the wrong thing at every single juncture in terms was relationship with me do I resent that not really I reach out positively to vegans all the time who are scumbags and who have really hurt me in a malicious way as i mentioned recently i have even reached out to vegan Ava who is a terrible human being but she's vegan and she wants to be a vegan activist to some extent you try to appreciate people not for who they are but for who they aspire to be you try to appreciate people not for the damage they've done in the past but for the positive difference in the world they aspire to make in the future you try to have some generosity of spirit with people I tried that with Joe and in the future maybe I'll try that again it definitely wouldn't be hard for Joe to pick up the pieces and to create a youtube channel or just ate forget YouTube he can talk to me without YouTube you don't need to have YouTube to talk to the human beings it wouldn't be hard for Joe to have a network of people who support his positive aspiration and not because of his former notoriety as a comedic figure as a satirist but simply because they really believe in the cause and on YouTube those are the people you want to meet those the people you want to know those the connections you want to make long-term having 10,000 fans who don't give a [ __ ] about you who don't give a [ __ ] about veganism is not worth much I would rather have 200 fans who are really down to die for the cause who are really down to live for the cause who are really trying to make something positive happen for ecology for ethics for the animals for the future Joe vegans got a newborn kiddo I know what that's like I know exactly what it's like to raise a newborn baby during its first year of life while being a vegan on the internet I've been there I've done that at that time back when I had a blog before I even had a YouTube channel I was out here trying to make friends with trying to make connections with other vegan parents it's hard you know it's it's lonely I don't know it's it's busy and crowded and lonely all at the same time I can relate to everything the guy is going through and I hope he rumbles around uh you know in his heart his soul in his spirit and he comes up with a new way to do something positive