Colonialism & Genocide (vs. "Ask Yourself")

if you've been watching my channel for a
minute you've probably heard me say at some point I like to make videos that don't just deal with controversy the moment but talk about the deeper underlying issues millennium-long political questions and problems in a way that would make this video interesting if I come back and watch it myself five years from now when I forgotten the controversy of the day so the the millennium-long issue here is basically what do we mean by colonialism what do we mean by genocide and what I see is the necessity for all of us to think more clearly and precisely about these terms even when we're dealing with contemporary politics today now in terms of the controversy haha pardon me a little cough there in terms the copper to first see at the moment I've been talking this guy ask yourself ask yourself his name of his channel his real name is Isaac he uses his real name I'm not outing him not exposing both Isaac or something and you know in my conversations with him about these you know really these issues that people get upset about very quickly he's kept his cool he's been very courteous and for the most part I've just been presenting him with facts he didn't already know and perspectives he hadn't already considered and you know challenging his assumptions and he has been met been magnanimous enough and self disciplined enough to respond in a totally you know respectful and respectable way so I give him I give him cry for this it's not the case that I like confronted him with this and he threw it back in my face but to give you one example and they I mean I've mentioned it's you but I asked him a question this is kind of Socratic method in a sense it's like well look if you're basically happy with the status quo here in Canada why is it when you look at the Canadian Parliament it is basically all white people and when you look back at the history of the last 100 years why has there been almost zero representation of native peoples in our parliamentary system you know doesn't this already indicate a serious problem now you can go into some depth on that there are a lot of reasons why First Nations need to be represented in Canadian problem if you don't know First Nations is our polite or technical term in Canada for the Cree the AGOA the mohawk for the peoples and languages and civilizations that exist in Canada prior to your colonization therefore they were first in a very simple chronological sense the First Nations of Canada that's the idea of the of the phrase now there are a lot of pragmatic reasons why First Nations need representation of Parliament beyond the kind of just idealistic sense that whoever lives in a country ought to be represented problem we get a lot of questions about women's representation room are there enough women in problem and you know it may be a significant debate to have in some other video or in some other context however you know women do not have a separate school board not in Canada First Nations have a totally separate system school boards that report to the federal government not to the provincial government women do not have a separate police force think about that First Nations in Canada need representation in Parliament so they can talk about problems in their schools problems with policing problems with hospitals and access to Medicare those things are different in an institutional sense so it should be a massive priority for us to make sure we have democratic representation of native peoples in Canada in our Parliament or if we had some other system you know if it wasn't a parliament it was some other kind of system of Elections to have them represented because at a minimum even if there was no issue with indigenous languages indigenous culture with those languages going extinct there are massive practical reasons why the representation of First Nations is indeed more urgent and more important than the representation of women I mean like ultimately yes for example women may have a different perspective on policing they moved different experience dealing with the police's in the Canada but it's the same police system and First Nations it's not there that always had a completely separate system for leasing there have been attempts to change it in the last couple of decades some of them now of policing that reports to their local chief some of them are still directly policed by the RCMP the Federal Police it's it's a strange history in itself as so how they're provided with those fundamental government services it's a big deal and there's no way you can easily dismiss the problem of having no representation so what I'm going to present this to to Isaac yes Phil I think I can just say lost he responded with real surprise Wow he had he just never thought about this before and you know I'll give him credit like it wasn't like he responded in a hostile way or a racist way these are just political questions he had never asked he'd never thought about the possible answers and you know we talked about it he talked about the extent to which Parliament is and isn't meritocracy the ways in which it is and isn't representative of any given ethnic minority or what-have-you he asked reasonable questions and then he took my answer seriously although this is the situation where really could have easily broken down into one side calling the other racist or or what have you now if you guys haven't watched my channel for a while I think it's pretty obvious that kind of the ghosts haunting this issue is the ghost of Corey McCarthy and enterin Karthik there's no cloud hanging traction we should edit this we should put in my my n-word please we should close a video because in terms of how he did the discussion between myself and Isaac got in the past I've been in a position to say to him look you're making excuses for people who are racist hey honey let's go breakfast this morning please okay can't you just tell me what's for breakfast a [ __ ] plate Cory is not a supremacist he just acknowledges racial differences please America was founded he just thinks there are some truths about race when America was founded highlight the whole things I'm like you know people you know claiming that oh well then what are you doing Eric because you know that wasn't your homeland etc there's army we came we have the the better man wins that's how it works and you know it's a solution life exactly as far as in Africa it's literally like the violent most violent man gets the most women you know in these kind of situations so they just have not evolved in the same way but we have legally we we developed these you know complex societies these the great architecture the great artwork degree in using the science that literature etc etc etc etc I mention the wheel yeah meanwhile our counterparts in other countries were living in my huts and carrying baskets ironically right quarries here wearing a Buddha to chef then I'm here reading and we're both vegan so just so you know we're not just like we don't just like some bloodthirsty love killing area beings or something if the native population of a territory we went into was capable of defeating us we would have been defeated and we would have wept you know it wouldn't have worked out very well but you know the only reason we were able to do it is because why why why because even to this day you find that a lot of like medical research and is being conducted also in America and Australia and why would that be you think about that because the r1b haplogroup then was sent over to those two places they're calling oils just look at every single civilized country as well aside from the East Asians which are kind of like a separate issue you know you were I know you can't help being born under in a specific country with a specific you know a specific race or a specific IQ or whatever you know but the thing is like let's say you're born with an 85 IQ just like somebody who's born with a 2-inch dick just like somebody who's born with a 2-inch dick that's like I'm sorry you got the shin of a stick I mean what you can't really do anything about it but you know please you know blacks get on whites for slavery they want reparations for it when in fact blacks were selling their own kind into slavery to whites and to the Middle East stop emails you know in their quarry is not a supremacist please okay can't you just tell me what's for breakfast now this whole Cisco just lately because a natural vegan she said to I think on Twitter but she said to ask yourself she basically discredited my saying we'll look here's somebody who who bails out racist or someone who sports racing solicitors doc I don't think I mentioned this to you you know his response to that is to say well that's guilt by association and that's hypocritical ie you shouldn't you know you shouldn't judge Isaac the same way you judge Corey and that also so he claims that in the same way that it's not immoral for a vegan to associate with meat eaters or to have positive relationships of cooperation with with meat eaters you can't judge someone this way in terms of guilt by association this was an interesting argument now I come out of a straight political science background in terms of politics and what I said to him first and foremost was look she's got you in the same way that like you know if you're if you're running for the Conservative Party or the Liberal Party and people see you at a picnic with a bunch of neo-nazis you can you could offer this kind of this kind of excuse about you know not guilt by association or that you think you're playing a positive role in reaching out to these people and me you know may be true maybe you have something interesting to say under that hand but in terms of just straight-up politics it's like well you're you're setting yourself up to be judged this way and I myself I have judging this way thus all the hard work that went into the N word please video which would suck at this point look I think that's that's part of the reason I'm making this video now is that I don't want to be associate with him and I want it to be clear even though he's been cordial and polite and with that you know intelligent conversation about it this is something where I've really kind of fundamentally put my foot down and say hey this is wrong and this is right so you know so just reported the particular example of talking about how Parliament works in Canada and there was more to it than that Stadium a little how are the boundaries drawn how are the writings defined how you know how actually does Parliament work on like a mechanistic level why does it over represent some groups and exclude others and in its history it was designed to be theirs so that's one side of it why do the First Nations even live where they live why have they been put onto reservations where they've been put in terms of being scattered around and given worthless land and all the valuable land taken away from them there's a lot to this history lurking behind a seemingly simple question of why are there so few First Nations people like the department right but including just the land they're living on and the land they're not living on like downtown Toronto like even where was living before you know I was in Victoria exactly where the Parliament building was in the middle of downtown Victoria at the heart of the city that was that was where you know the indigenous people lived that was the center of their their city their town their civilization it was the most valuable land it was the most protected from storms from the ocean and so on there were a bunch of reasons that water was really calm there and so on and that's why Europeans want to take the land too so that there's a lot packed into that but for me I think the most fundamental thing I've said against I still say against Corey and Tara McCarthy is that they are pro genocide they are racist in many ways under many different headings you know they have a whole thing about either against miscegenation there against interbreeding between the races and their their political position is that they want to kick out all non-white people from North America including vegan gains I've seen tarah answer a direct question without which she got a question from a viewer saying well what's your position on someone like being Gaines Richard vegan gains who is half black and half white in his lives its whole life here you know its whole family's been fortunate why would you kick someone so and her position was ultimately yes you know like her her concept of she insists it's non-violence she wants to non-violently exile all these people from United States and Canada and you know that so that their whole approach I mean look I mean I it's not a hard argument to make their approach is in a word of white nationalism treating the United States and Canada as a as a so-called white homeland which it's not I've given Isaac credit for this in the past he has said their their perspective is basically that they want they want North America to be for white people what Japan is for Japanese people in the same of this Japanese nationalism the Japanese people should you know remain the majority of Japan there are many flaws to that I mean it's it's an interesting way of thinking about the world is what in political science we call irredentism this kind of homeland centered you know politics but among the most striking and obvious problems in terms of the differences between Japanese nationalism which is itself also fascist and racist and has an incredibly violent history by the way there are already problems with Japanese at the nationalism like heard of world war two like that it's it's defects in the past but you know that aside the relationship between the the Japanese people and the Japanese islands is not the relationship between white people and Canada not at all and and the history of colonialism and genocide is not some minor footnote in this discussion this is a profound difference so one of my catchphrases that I used years ago back when I was doing research and Laos and Cambodia and so on I used to say all the time not all indigenous people are tribal and not all tribal people are indigenous so you know for example the indigenous people of Germany are Germans now they're not the only indigenous people Germany but they've been there for thousands of years back to the records we have from ancient Rome and so on so the fact that somebody is not or a group of people they're not living in tribal conditions doesn't take away from them that's not the same criterion for being indigenous let really think about the meaning of the word indigenous however Germans are not indigenous to Canada or the United States so big difference to this in this context and the other hand I mean look where I was living in northern Laos we did have tribal people who had you know distinctive handmade forms of dress at that time they still did probably in the last ten years though they're losing that lifestyle we had tribal people who still used crossbows and Spears and did traditional hunting and more traditional traditional costume you know traditional handmade clothes and so on I drove my bicycle through some of those villages and again they may be the last I mean today you know a few years later that that may be they may be assimilating more more but you had people who were in tribal conditions and very often they were not indigenous they had just migrated there within the last 75 years so the meaning of indigenous and the meaning of tribal these really need to be separated in your mind but okay to stick with Japan for one more moment if you really believe in this you believe in this irredentist approach to politics which in the context of Japan is very different from the context of New York City who why is Manhattan Island called Manhattan you know it's not a European name the indigenous people of Manhattan Island were the LANAP a fill in that they are now basically exists what would basically extinct apartment they basically don't exist I think there are a few people who still identify as an appe but their civilization has been totally destroyed so you can't just give Manhattan back to the Manhattan people you can't give it back to one happy why is Ottawa called Ottawa Ottawa is the capital city of Canada it's not called Paris it's not called London it's not it's called Ottawa the Ottawa language is right now on the brink of extinction I think there are maybe 12 people who still speak the Ottawa language fewer than a hundred people otherwise is Algonquin language they're actually closely related though the language of Ottawa and the language of New York City so they're normally refer to Ottawa and Lenape they're actually cognate languages they're very much in the same language family and so on we could have had an alternate history in which these these shared our culture even if it was culture we don't we have a real history of genocide but even within Japan so in Japan who are the indigenous people of Japan well the Japanese also groups like the Ainu so other ethnic minority groups in Japan who have been there since forever basically and some other groups that live on separate islands called the NIV key if you just look at Japan geographically it's not surprising that a few different indigenous groups scattered around these islands I mean Japan is a very strange shape so I think it's not like there's just one ethnic group that's that's indigenous to Japan well Japan's number one priority if you really believe this if you believe the simple premise that Japan is for the Japanese is to immediately go to war with Russia to reclaim northern Japan look at a real map of Japan go to Google Maps and scroll up Japan is cut off at a dotted line where part of Japan was conquered by the Russians notably Sakhalin Island notably the only source of oil and gas Japan ever had or ever is gonna have its a major Allah cast reserve and that was indigenous Snivy and I new territory which is now inhabited by white blond people you know if you believe this if you believe in this principle if your intent is owned that Japan is for the Japanese you must by the same token unless you are guilty of a double standard you must believe that Australia is for the indigenous australians you must if this is your ethno nationalist perspective you must want to kick out the russians from northern japan the little piece of japan they conquered you must want to kick out the white people from australia and the implications for New York City and Ottawa is looking pretty bleak you know if that's your nationalist perspective so one of things I've said to to ask yourself said to Isaac I said look my problem with this is not that you're violating my code of ethics my prom with this is that you're violating your own code of ethics because Isaac as guy who cares passionately about this kind of logical consistency he cares about not having a double standard right now in reality what Cory and Tara McCarthy say and I've got videos directly quoting them they adopt a might makes right position so if you a doctor might mix right position then you say well part of Japan now belongs to the Russians just because they conquered it they were stronger so that's fine so the fact that they totally be populated of Japanese people and nifty people and I knew people in other groups native to it then then you accept that as just fine on the base of the right mix might might makes right and then I suppose you accept it by the same token for basically the genocide in Australia slow-motion genocides in Australia slow-motion genocide in Canada that leads to a very bleak view of the world now again we're not really talking about my principles here ask yourself Isaac he has argued against that might makes right principle again and again and again in video after video after video for him that's a big part of why he doesn't accept different excuses for eating meat or exploiting animals is to say well you can't just say might makes right in terms of human relationships with cows the fact that we have bred them in this way controlled them in this way sabore did them in this way and so on doesn't justify our continuing to do so or what happened yeah so Mike doesn't make right in terms of human relationships with animals I think everyone knows in a very simple sense in politics might might doesn't make right I'm you know I mean so we just watched a movie adaptation of the the Nuremberg trials the question the end of World War two one of my former bosses I've told you other other examples about him he basically did subscribe to my mix right he's the only person I've ever met who really said he believed the United States should have used the atom bomb in the Vietnam War that they should have destroyed Vietnam with the ANA bomb and so on so he is a bit you know and he was old enough he remembered he was a child right after the Nazi period I think he was born I mean like he was an infant during the Nazi period or something but he had memories of the devastation after that's war and I remember just asking him I said well look you know whatever you think the basis of the conflict is the United States and Vietnam it's pretty trivial compared to the conflict to the United States and Germany in World War two so by your own moral values what you've just expressed if he believed that you know if you believe the United States should have totally decimated Vietnam right so why why wouldn't we you know action whether through the nuclear bomber why wouldn't we resolve World War two through you know Holocaust like you know yet another atrocity even larger than the Holocaust decimating the German people are decimating everyone who had supported the Nazi Party which was quite quite easy to do I mean had the records we knew who was we knew who was a card-carrying Nazi and it wasn't it was definitely in our power in terms of the Western Allies is in our power to use the atom bomb it was in our power to carry out ethnic cleansing if you like within Germany to Massacre everyone who had supported the Nazi Party that would have greatly reduced the population Germany you know we could have done the same in France too what percentage of people in France were collaborators with a Nazi regime and those were those were debates that really happen so I mean if in terms of might makes right it leads us to other very difficult but I know I know Isaac does not accept accept my mic's right so look on the general question of what is colonialism and what is genocide my perspective on this specific controversy boils down to saying anyone who is pro British Empire in this context or pro Spanish Empire or pro French Empire is in effect pro genocide and that's not really a complex or controversial claim you know like if in the context of what happened to Haiti and why it is today Haiti is not populated by its indigenous people if you talk about the province of Quebec and why it is that indigenous people or maybe 1% of the population of Quebec why it is that Tasmania contains absolutely zero indigenous Tasmanians Tasmania is normally given a sample of a hundred percent genocide if you support the British Empire the French Emperor the Spanish part in these guys if you say that is good if you are pro Empire in that context then you are pro genocide and Cory McCarthy and Tara McCarthy are very very clear that they are Pro Empire in that sense now I also think in the present tense they're Pro Empire historically looking back at that time but it's also very clear in the present tense their political position is racist and I would say progetto side because you cannot be a white nationalist in the context of Canada the United States without being pro genocide you know now I think I think it is possible by the same token I think you can be a Japanese nationalist in Japan without being pro genocide I think that is possible you know it's a little bit of a problem that Japan tried to conquer a large part of the rest of the world well a little hiccup there I mean when the Japanese were conquering Korea even take one example Molly you know you're Japanese nationalism is starting to make less and less sense trying to conquer large parts of northeastern China and so on okay then I'm a Japanese nationalisms maybe a topic for for another video but that is an interesting comparison Isak makes when he says their position is is fundamentally like that now the idea of colonialism is a big political football I think it's overused and misused and used much too vaguely the same way I said before look not all indigenous people are tribal not all tribal people or indigenous my fundamental point this video is actually not all colonialism is genocide oh and I don't say that to make excuses for colonialism I was going to glorify colonialism but we have to face up to the fact that what the British Empire did in Hong Kong is very very different from what the British Empire did in Ontario and Quebec Canada or Australia Tasmania these other examples it's much boom owned there's a big national discourse here in China of presenting China's the the victim of colonialism colonialism at its worst the colonialism red and tooth and Fang came here and destroyed the glory that was medieval China that's a that's a huge part of the official narrative of the history of China here but the reality is when the British ruled Hong Kong the majority of the residents of Hong Kong or Chinese and continued speaking Chinese and continued having schools and Chinese and education in Chinese and going to the hospital in Chinese you know the majority of the residents of Quebec or if Canada's a whole are not the native people and they can't go to the hospital in their native language they can't go to the police in their native language they have become foreigners in their own country you know the attitude that British Empire had in appropriating the land and resources of Canada or Australia is profoundly different from the role of setting up a city state or a trading station which is still colonialism that is still part of the workload this were colonialism encompasses a really wide range of political and practical realities so you can imagine how profoundly different the history of can it would be today if the British Empire had just set up a number of Hong Kong like city-states on the coast of Canada and had not otherwise disrupted native culture inland they would have had trade that would have had interaction that would have had some kinds of political intrigue with one another but if the native people of Canada had their own Emperor in the same way that the people of China had their own Emperor right up till the the end of the Chinese Empire that was negotiating with and signing agreements with European powers so the Canadian native people and Australian native people were not treated even as well as the British Empire and other European empires treated the people of China it's also a really instructive contrast and looking at the history of China and history of India there's a sense in which colonialism is one thing and we use it in a politically frankly a politically dishonest way talk about the history long is in the way but there's also a really profound sense in which we have to say not all colonialism is genocide 'el and we have to appreciate the sort of depth and gravity of the significance when colonialism is genocide 'el when it when it presumes that the native people of a country have no right to live there have no business being there you know because if the native people of Canada have no no business living in Canada they can be wiped out and replaced with a clear objective of the form of government is to supplant that native population that's the majority of people of China remain Chinese and thus China still endures as a nation today but we're in a profoundly different situation in Canada Australia and so on where we're in the shadow of genocide and that that stain that long-term consequence it doesn't it doesn't wash off easily so yeah I don't get it I got nothing else to say about Cory McCarthy and ask yourself and everybody else but I said in an earlier video I think you know questions of politics once we get into more sophisticated folders very often we're talking about differences in priority not necessarily differences in simple facts or decisions or what are we gonna do I don't understand how it's possible for somebody with ask yourselves about a set of beliefs whether the beliefs and logic of how can you put such a low priority on the indigenous people of Canada why isn't that I'm a treasure for you if you care enough about this to make these elaborate excuses for Gloria bow Karthi and Tara McCarthy why is that a priority and not dealing with the reality of the fact that the land you're living on right now has this genocide history and has very clear and present problems a very clear and present crisis of asking are these languages gonna go extinct in the current generation are we going to lose that last 1% or what I mean if again I think pretty much everyone who grows up in Germany today in their formal education system faces up to the legacy of World War two faces up to the history of racism and to some extent colonialism but you know racism and genocide in the history of Germany that's a major part of their education major part of their current identity national identity of Germany is then how do you define yourself in contrast to the history and in Canada I think a lot of people like ask yourself are sleepwalking they've never they never face stuff that they've never thought about that they never thought about why is Ottawa called Ottawa how many people can still speak the out of our language why is it in downtown Ottawa when I use a bank machine the bank machines are all in English they're not in this other language called Ottawa you know what I mean you know the basic reality of how far how far cultural genocide is already gone up to this point and I see fundamentally in this political context I see somebody like Isaac okay ask yourself I see somebody like Isaac as someone who thinks of himself as cynical but really he's not really he's very soon he's very new to this game I think he's basically jun and naive enough to be manipulated by people like Cory McCarthy and Tara McCarthy and they're their political positions are laughably racist outrageously racist and although he makes an interesting point in saying that he shouldn't be he shouldn't be guilty by association I think that's true and that's why when I talk to him I'm cordial and so on this is politics baby this is Paul's Bill Clinton can't go to a neo-nazi barbecue he can't worry if he does he's got to be clear that he's protesting I mean like Bill Clinton goes to a neo-nazi bar it's got to be clear that he's there to confront those people he's got he's got to define what his position is and what the other side's position is and what the difference is and and for me this video that's exactly what I'm doing because I've got to say ask yourself as a nice guy he seems to be a very smart although very eccentric guy he's got with a lot of potential and I don't say that often in terms of somebody who is potentially positive of the future being a movement but me sitting down at the same table as as Isaac it's about pictures as we going through a neo-nazi picnic and I I do feel pressure on me to make this video and say look I fundamentally have your reconcilable values of this guy or a totally different perspective and that's easiest that's most easily expressed in terms of a difference in priority rather than anything else you know there are all kinds of other questions about race and ethnicity I don't think we've even mentioned black people or you know enslavement of Africans in this video until now yeah that's also a huge issue don't get me wrong we were just talking about you know this instead of the black versus white contrast the indigenous versus colonial contrast in this video so sure there are all kinds of other you know questions and issues and police brutality and you know other questions of race relations in America and Canada and multiculturalism and intersectional ISM and political correctness there are a million different wrinkles but your in terms of priority I've got to tell you I grew up in Canada pissed off I grew up angry that I grew up in a country built on genocide and I grew up angry at my own parents and my own cousins and relatives that none of them gave a [ __ ] that nobody around me was gonna lift a finger about this this fundamental hypocrisy now if you say so I grew up in a Canada where all Canadians were so eager to tell you that were morally superior to the Americans we're just so morally pure because we like Canada's so much better the United States there was like the major political lay motif of my crime in Canada and on this issue I had to say no we're not like no we're not you know this is this huge crisis and you know you know there's a line from Chris Rock Santo comedian Chris Rock and he has he has a bit a minute saw Elvis is now on video but it's a live pet for four years where he said during a stand-up comedy he said any time you think you know nobody has it worse than black people he said no no no Native Americans and his punchline basic what basically was he says Native Americans he said you don't even see those guys around he said when was the last time you went to an Olive Garden and you just saw a table of Native Americans sitting there he said that that's that's how far it's gone you know with Native Americans and you know I mean it's it's stand-up comedy but I mean like you know that's that's that's my point exactly I don't want the status of indigenous culture in Canada to just be a monument you know what I mean a monument to the people who were once there you know so look from my perspective were within two or three generations of total genocide this is the endgame to cultural genocide and those tough decisions either weren't going to make them now or never and yeah I look at a guy like ask yourself and to me he's on the wrong side although he is being polite and cordial and friendly and he and he's willing to say oh wow that's an interesting perspective I've never heard that before I give him credit for that and people like Cory and Tara McCarthy they are pretty much people so antithetical to where I'm at and they're also against miscegenation there against the interbreeding of different racial groups they're into this whole complex races but they're there they're as far apart for me as someone who is more or less in a state of race war I mean I'm white and they're white but we're I'm white and partly Jewish Tara also is whiteness partly to actually but believe me where we are basically on opposite sides of a of a race war so look we were just looking at I think this is worth going Zinn video we were just looking at the two six nine website and article an article about usage now so okay two six nine life they're a group who openly say they don't want to deal with human rights issues yeah and they'll accept anyone so they'll accept you like so allegedly I mean it practices through but allegedly they'll accept you if you're racist yeah and you know this has come up between me and Maude vegan my vegans position is that basically you should define how politically correct you require people to be and then in your vegan movement you don't let people and if they're racist you don't want people that if they're too conservative if they if they differ from you largely two six nine life a man I think that's that's a really interesting counterpoint where they decided no the only barrier to entry is your willingness to scarify her bloppy your willingness to be tattooed or branded with the number two six nine they just said forget it we're not dealing with any human rights issues we're just dealing with animal rights issues yeah but the result would be I mean you could just ask yourself as a thought experiment would you really be willing to be part of the same protest with Cory McCarthy or Terry McConnell Tara McCarthy uh this chemo ask yourself was talking about having a political roundtable talk about vegan politics yeah well obviously uh via the internet not an actual table digital table anyway yeah I'll be great to do with the real table and I said to myself well look you got to think about your position in this because you know people like me would I participate if Cory McCarthy is there or someone like him someone who represents racist right-wing you know pro genocide Pro Empire white nationalist views then theism and again it's like will Bill Clinton go to a picnic with neo-nazis it's that it's that far gone it's that extreme I doubt I just guess in reality I doubt to 6:9 life lives up to that I don't they have that much ideological and political and racists diversity I guess that's just in principle in reality it's just saying look there are a lot of human rights issues within Israel there are a lot a human rights issues and there are a lot of foundations done with that that's not what we're dealing with but I mean if it's a round table if it's not a rectangular table if it's not if it's a rail table I don't think I can work with those people and and look Isaac he's he supposedly supports this kind debate you know Cory McCarthy responded to my challenging him very politely video that didn't say anything you know insulting over the top I just quoted Cory McCarthy basically and said look this is what it is you know Cory has never been willing to debate me never want to talk me he deleted his own videos in shame after I just raised the question yeah so there's no way forward in terms of debate or or confrontation with what's on that set table I guess I'm happy that there are more vegans in the world but yeah it really really suck to have people that are racist but work that's not like we can disclose them or disclude anybody from becoming vegan just because they have different and the thing is wrong beliefs sure sure sure sure surely veganism ultimately minutes it's a practice in search of an ideology anybody can join anybody can start preaching in promoting veganism including right-wing extremists including neo-nazis including what I mean that's that's part of the reality where would you live right now but the irony is a guy like ask yourself he offers a lot of kind of fresh ideas than veganism that are not the conventional definitely thing that you and I are happy to hear about too like you were just looking at this article to 69 and the article basically argued 269 is incompatible with intersectional ISM yeah and you were like great oh you were like great I'd rather be part of a vegan movement that rejects intersectional submit as eczema intersectional I'm is such a drag it's such a crappy left-wing academic thing I don't want the dead weight great and you know ask yourself Isaac he's also someone who rejects intersexual ISM not for the same reasons I do that's interesting I mean we come from totally different political perspectives totally agree but he basically hates intersectional as a concept so I mean you know there is something to be said for a diversity of opinion but well I mean this is this is when we get into real politics you know I'm at the end of the day I've said this before all I could say fundamentally is look this is who I am these are my values this is where I am this way you get down to a certain level where it's like look this is why it is totally unacceptable for me to break bread with someone who is pro British Empire Pro colonialism Pro genocide and in this case even explicitly pro-pro white race you know that's a wrap