A Review of the Animal Liberation Conference (Berkeley, California)

Banas yen alright do you want me to use
a pseudonym for you or not use your real name at all but ok but I I have some experience with crazy vegans in the movement tracking me down and threatening to kill me and this kind of thing I hope you never had this experience anyway whether whether this is your experience or not you've just gotten back from attending a somewhat famous of vegan activism and animal rights conference this is hosted by the University of California Berkeley correct if I know that a lot of people who are the idea organisation belongs to direct action everywhere right but I don't know under what name they actually organized the conference ok most of it takes place on the grounds of the University ok so that realize I thought it was a University of California event that just happened to have a lot of people from direct action everywhere because direct action everywhere you know they're really based in Berkeley but you know obviously it makes sense if in fact it's organized by derived action every one happens to be at University California ok it may be it may be they could be possible at this point I never has any of the particulars about the the whole event was organized ok so in terms of what you could see uh I know that the right action if we were a big part of it Wayne's Young was there and so on when Sean actually I I actually speak Chinese so the HS sound is not SH there it's it's not correct check everybody over there Chung so I'm assuming that when Chong goes by so this is a this is a pattern this is a pattern in vegan activism Gary front coa prefers to pronounce his name gary Francie own right so yeah Wayne Young prefers to pronounce his name Cheung I guess but it's not correct Chinese and France theone is not connected to tell you so I don't know that's what he prefers but maybe he's giving up we pronounce it the right way yeah maybe I'm gay I'm guessing Wayne doesn't speak Chinese you know no shade I mean you know I don't speak Hebrew and I don't want to speak Hebrew you know I have Jewish ancestors but I choose not to speak Hebrew I understand those those are decisions we all got to make but yeah you know growing up Canadian you know definitely within Canada within Toronto you're always supposed to make an effort you know if someone's québécois you pronounce the name in a French way you know so my name is Mazar not mazzard but you know I'm not fussy about it be normally growing up in Canada you have a little bit of sensitivity to those things anyway yeah but as you can imagine I'm open-minded so like when I lived in Laos no when I lived in Laos I had a low name at the office I was ice on which is or it's a name that's kind of funny to explain because it sounds like a communist code name it's like big brother ass it sounds like you're working inside anymore you said the government I was working for the Communist Party because everything there is does they like that they like that nickname and then at another team which was just the white elephant in a wild language of course that was that wasn't that figured one but in that same way each of the languages have studied I've normally taken a name in the local yeah I go by I go by eyes'll that's what I live by but yeah it was funny when I first moved to the South of France when I moved to Perpignan in the South of France everyone knew the name Azhar that was a normal name there for the first time books somewhere but yeah sorry I know a big deal but I just said it's part of the part of the kind of cultural sensitivity training you get coming up in Toronto okay so the main speaker I guess was then Wayne Chung no okay so just tell me in terms of okay it was a full week so and it was a cool really full full of workshops and trainings and there were a lot of speakers actually Glenn Greenwald was there oh wow and he was the keynote speaker for the conference casually a few other people whose names I don't quite remember James asked me was there every prison yeah earthling head that was their very prison that vegan couple whatever hmm yeah yeah yeah yeah they've improved a lot over the last two three they've improved a lot the quality of their show was improved in the last two three years old say yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah the gave a big speech on what I think the same day at Lynn greenwalt he gave give a speech they also gave a speech when we did a funeral for some animals something I think pretty often where we made a very big ceremonial march through the streets of Berkeley and we buried some animals on the lawn in front of the how do you say that city oh yeah and he gave a pretty rousing speech at that moment but everybody else ization had their time to shine and said I think he was dealing a lot with background organization for many of the activities that we were doing during the including the the big open rescue at the so I did I did read about this somewhat ceremonial open rescue project so let me just ask given that 2018 has been a very dramatic and tumultuous year for direct action everywhere would you say that there was any criticism of DXE or any events that were you know critical of more may be reflecting on successes and failures what went well what didn't go well you know what I mean in this sense there was not a lot of reflecting on I think they were the whole the whole conference was very much milder than what was being kept in mind with that we're here for the animals so yeah during this conference you know the please need up to people make contacts to have fun learn but always keep in mind that we're here for the animals I was aware I honestly at one point I didn't know if I was going to go anymore but since my plane ticket was already you know reserved and not only a door a room was a resort I decided to attend anyway and but I looked at the criticisms of DXE and I looked at the answers yeah I have to say that most of the answer that had been given to me sound transparent and sound like their conscience that they've made mistakes and I mean this is what these are things that be freely admit they've made mistakes in the past that they've learned from it and then they've changed some of the ways they're doing things and from what I've seen at the conference I would add to agree with that I don't mean to say that I'm not uncritical of the extra anymore but from what I've seen at the conference they I mean I've been accused of racism in a move oh yeah I did not see anything else no other conference no yeah look I mean you know III I've heard those claims also and you know I think I have got twenty videos criticizing DXE on my channel I've never once you know substantiated or dealt with those complaints I mean the only thing that's interesting with that it shows some of the challenge of having a social media based form of activism in the 21st century in one of the people what he said to me his complaint was he felt that ethnic minorities were not getting their videos onto the main YouTube page and they weren't getting posed on the Facebook page but I mean I'm sure a lot of people feel that way like people do a demonstration and then they complain well somebody else's demonstration is on the Facebook page on the YouTube channel and not mine so I just say beneath the issue of racism per se it seemed to me instead a lot of those complaints were about control of promotion and social media platforms which is you know something worth thinking about in a different sense but isn't isn't really racism azide racism doesn't seem to me the problem with the EXCI I've made many videos about the problems I don't think that's one of them yeah social media I think that they really want to concentrate their birdly team wants to concentrate Derek their social media progressed on virtue and every other place is I think their own media presence so deal with it if you don't get I can understand that if people feel like you don't get enough recognition from you know birthday which is probably seen as the central right the core of the FC maybe but frankly I don't think so I mean no way again what I've observed I don't know it's their actual tactics or any or anything like that but I think they really really really want to concentrate on Berkeley because I think they want to really have political impact locally yes in Berkeley in San Francisco area maybe in all of California like they can do and I think that's what they're really concentrating their efforts on the actual political change yes yeah they've been open about that in terms of their most recent manifesto document that they're trying to build a vegan community in Berkeley California specifically anyway look we get the critic this is the purpose of this video is not really to criticize protection of work just because I already have now somebody on earth sorry to say for people who don't know watching this other link below the channel I have a whole playlist of videos but I do think for people who signed up people who joined exe just a couple of years ago it is a big change because it used to be in the past that they were supposed to be a decentralized non hierarchical global network and they've become the exact opposite they're a hierarchy led by one man they have a center the you know which is this one place in Berkeley and you know so if you support the XE that's now what it's all about that's the exact opposite of what but we're joining for just two years ago say so short time ago they've changed in that respect too yeah I see that yeah Wayne probably as a large presence in the organization I think that's undeniable but I think that there's a lot of place for input from the other members of the core team yeah more than what people I think because what I see okay I'm not here to just praise DXE because as I said I'm not on critical of the organization but I was actually impressed by what I saw sure there so but I you know some of the criticisms about the geeks in being cult-like or things like that I I really didn't see much of that and I really I think of course Wayne is important in the organization but I don't think that the whole thing he just turns around here I mean the guy could go to prison yes well we'll see what happens yeah everything that's over he's well over 60 years the other maybe maybe he'll be pardoned by Donald Trump Donald Trump likes to pardon celebrity cases so look the other question asked when they were founded DXE put a lot of emphasis on a sort of new and academic approach they claimed that their methods were based on social science research and at the beginning they made an effort to do that so this conference to what extent would you say it was academic in that sense was talking about social science research or research into what's effective and what's not that's why I want to ask about them being self-critical what's working what's not and I don't know to what extent was it men of action I don't know what what's the alternative non academic I mean you know really best you know there was a lot for every every you know I'm time slot there were maybe three or four workshops that could be offered so I did not extend the most advanced ones I don't know that there was a lot of you know a lot of pure rising going on yeah there was a lot of it in private conversation between between attendings right there was a lot of that a lot of really great conversations had with people who attended I mean it's really great to be a vegan event where entire species of event I mean where everybody's talking about something else other than food yeah right yes the really core focus is on most methods of nonviolent protest like workshop on Qingyun non-violence yeah and there were other other such workshops most people don't know he's talking about the the method of non-violence practiced by dr. Martin Luther King jr. so yeah exactly I think that's really where do you want to orient this about I mean I think they want to really bring out bring out the empty species to the forefront ideals and I think that they chose a purely compassionate nonviolent method of protest to do that and that's what that's what I if I had one great take so given that a lot of it's about methods do you think a new method came out of this like just to give an example within the last one year there's been a lot of excitement about the cube of truth protests you know so I mean what were those the kind of discussions as to what extent is cube of truth effective or to what extent should you try you know the old-fashioned exe disruptions I mean they used to run on to baseball pitches they used to interrupt baseball games they used to be there their method you know this kind of thing running in restaurants yeah they really wanted everybody to have a taste of every kind of approach that's okay being mainstreamed right now so right disruptions cubes of truth good old-fashioned marching right and open risky and I think that the real goal is to have all of these things work together right because not these forms of protest all have different goals right disruptions are not meant to turn people vegan they're meant to make people aware that there's a problem in society and there's this question it's there to raise consciousness of the issue cubes of tree or more like are where you're trying to do some you know one-on-one convincing of people and well the other methods are not don't have anything you to and I think for me one thing that's interesting I don't know if you've heard Wayne say this I've seen in writing I've also seen him on YouTube or in recorded lectures saying this he said that his his journey towards direct action everywhere started when he lost patience with baking cookies and making muffins and giving them out and you know actually my journey to vegan activism is going the exact opposite way I've just enrolled in making college I'm learning how to bake I actually think baking bread baking pie is whatever I think actually you know cuisine centered activism in terms of outreach and getting people interested I'm more convinced than ever that that is a good way to to reach people and start the conversation I agree to make make them aware that you don't have to kill animals now the contest is in terms of the direction Wayne went in so rejecting cookie-based activism or you know bacon is that okay I think I've heard what he said I'd say he were jests he does reject cookie cookies and what-have-you anyway that's why he got into this train with disruption being is his method um but really his focus increasingly is so-called open rescue now I do I did read the article you sent me so the article about this this protest they had at the end of the conference sort of celebratory uh protest and there's the possibility again of people going to jail and being arrested for it now I just know so one interesting thing with this particular protest in the state of California there is a law but I would call it more of a legal guideline that if there is an animal that is starving or lacking water people outside have the right to break in in order to provide that animal with water or food but it actually says in the law the with the animal remaining in confinement exact yeah it doesn't give you the right to actually steal the animal or take the outside it gives you the right to go inside and provide it with food and water and then leave yeah so just note they they even though they raise this law actually what they're doing is illegal they're stealing the animals and not giving them back yeah exactly yeah [Music] it's no way to see it okay no not abort okay recently they did an open rescue where we're being rescued three dots from a place where they do experiments on dogs okay and Julie and she's blind and there's this video that they make during the conference they had a VR the other VR experience of the rescue so they film the entire rescue operation in VR and when you're in the when you're visualizing the the rescue you've got Wayne they're explaining to you what's going on but you can see everywhere everywhere they went inside you can't see personally I can tell you that if I had been there I would not have come out empty-handed yeah that's how powerful it is the conditions in the lab are so terrible I mean yeah the conditions the lab work right and I nobody deserves to enjoy this I mean I realized that those animal that there is you are you know about at symbolic value but the other act is you're actually helping you know someone escape or horrible conditions and get the care they deserve so that's that's why I know according to the law these fields running that's undeniable according to the law but you know the the problem with what they say in activism is that unjust laws hey look I'm a nihilist so I mean I don't these are distinction that I really don't trade in I mean for me it's about doing the best you can and in a democratic but for me in a democratic society like Canada the United States I can do better than this I think I have better options than breaking the law and so on I think you know I talked to one activist in China where you don't have the right to protest and there's no democratic process there's no way to approach government and the the options for vegan activism in China are much much more narrow and constrained they're largely limited to working inside restaurants and you saw the way to respond to that but I just be honest you I really don't sympathize with the law-breaking element that this approach and I mean you know a guy like Roger Yates sorry I hope him getting his name right but there was guy who went to prison for some time because his activist group they got into destroying fur you know fur in fur shops and you know I think a lot of vegans can sympathize with that but I mean where if you're gonna if you're gonna steal fur or steal leather or you know go into shops and destroy fur what he actually ended up yeah yeah okay we stealing and destroying yeah inanimate objects and freeing somebody yeah I do see a difference I see that the the approach of doing an open place and in a really non-violent mindset I think takes a lot I mean right personally I might not do it ever I don't know if I can criticize people who do do it because I felt right yeah I understand you felt an emotional pole to it right remember I fed the emotional pole so and when we did that protest the industrial farm I mean I'm just I'm just so grateful that something like that because it was huge and it was symbolic right and I think it's it's going it's the sort of action that could change the course of things I think and while I I don't approve of every method of activity but I think that many of those many methods can work together I mean you need restaurants you have you need bakeries but I think at the end of the day you will meet in civil disobedience I think that's that's going to be a requirement to make things go forward well when you break into a lab and interrupt research is underway theoretically it could be research into curing cancer but theoretically could be research into making a shade of lipstick slightly more red you know it could be something like this but neither case the the company doing the research they're in a position to say oh this was a six million dollar research project and you interrupted it in validating the results so now you and your organization are liable for six million dollars with the damage so apart from the criminal act there are just simple damages legally speaking where you're reliable for the cost of the damages so I mean even if what you're saying were true which I don't I don't agree with but I already have other videos saying that I think in terms of the cost-benefit analysis but just say like let's say we've got a budget of six million dollars which some organizations have peda People for the Ethical Treatment they have six million dollars you know what what are we gonna do with six million dollars in ten years of our lives I think we can do better that's my general feeling on this but look what this admin said DXE doubtless has been a lightning rod that's brought together talented people and I hope we get to see some some new talent and new inspiration coming out of it you know I've talked to a lot of disillusioned people who you know got their hearts broke with DXE and I've now bitter ex members of the group I've touched a lot of people who felt that way about the abolitionist movement with Gary Fran coa and of course I've talked to people who felt that way about lifestyle activism you know freelee and durianrider so it is interesting we've been through a period of time when veganism has been rapidly kind of shedding its skin you know in the sense of a snake shedding its skin and taking on taking on new directions but look I mean fundamentally I'm glad to hear that a bunch of people got together and we're talking about you know how to make that that change happen and in Berkeley because I met people that I'm going to be able probably stay in contact with for years to come grid and whatever direction active influence I was going to be able to you know learn from you people all the time what we're saying about the possibility of maybe being sued for millions of dollars don't people don't see is that usually DXE are very very very well prepared before they do something they know everything they have to know about the place they get the the they get legal advice and in the case of the open rescue we did in Petaluma they petitioned the City Hall before him they petitioned the animal control groups beforehand they did lots they did months of background work before doing actually doing what we did yeah so they're not doing this you know they're not being capricious about it my son right or they're not doing it out of out of the blue so this is the kind of forethought that makes me more hopeful that these methods can work okay look what that have been said I just point out by contrast they did recently have a naked woman lying in a pile of poo I think she was wearing a bikini you know I they run into restaurants and showed you know we run into a butcher shop and say why do you kill the pig kill me instead they they have had a lot of emotionally overwrought and seemingly very poorly planned activism so you know what you're saying about this event may be true but they were associated with a lot of really low-grade poorly planned stuff from my perspective I know I know I'm not saying I'm not saying it was against her will they try stuff but even that's done took a lot of preparation beforehand try to get a truck full of poo no glitch okay great so let's wrap we're coming up in a half an hour I'm happy to talk to you but I'm gonna I'm gonna stop recording after the video so severe our video reflections on the latest big conference coming out of Berkeley California STDs gone hate my drool with a bottle say so we can pop [ __ ] at the head and pour some on the floor cuz these [ __ ] de-evolution