Who killed Matt Dillahunty? It wasn't a heart attack.

hey everybody welcome to the hang up it's wednesday 7 p.m central uh today is december 15th 2021 that's when we're doing this live it's the last show before i go in for heart surgery and if you've ever had a bowl of rice krispies in milk that sound is the sound that my lungs would make whenever i open my mouth after i'd done some physical exertion and so it would just sound like rice krispies and i googled it because you know dr google is the first thing that i'm gonna do before i actually go talk to my doctor uh and it turns out that that's a very common symptom of congestive heart failure but the next thing that happened is we decided let's go for the gold standard let's take me in and do an angiogram uh because that way basically they went in right here through my wrist and they thread a catheter all the way up into my heart and pop some dye in there and take pictures uh and so the whole process is there i actually have uh david can put it up on the screen this is what they drew after the angiogram was over now they told me that they would only be able to put in stents in arteries if the occlusion or the head was 70 or less that's the right artery of the heart and it's 100 blocked on the left side the first branch primary branch right before that fork is 90 block the other branch is 85 to 90 blocked up higher and yeah flipping it isn't gonna make it easier to read and then further down there's one that's like sixty to seventy percent uh blocked etc what's going to happen is uh i'm going to next wednesday instead of doing an episode of the hangout i'm going to be going in for a quadruple or twin tuple bypass cardiac bypass graft surgery i'm not tied to anybody at all i'm i'm lone wolf atheist every single association i've had apart from um you know with seth and iron i guess has has left me uh burned me and matt dillahunty and his wife gonna fall out on facebook about the fact that they were claiming that prejudice plus power equals racism that only basically racism only exists uh systematically or systemically like so in other words black people can't be racist what that's mean where wasn't even her memes she posted it she didn't even actually give her initial opinion on it to begin with um but it was saying look we have these words bias prejudice i don't think bigotry was on this one but it's also in the conversation and racism and if words are you if two words are used as synonyms if what you mean by racism is what everybody means by prejudice then we're kind of wasting you know we've got two words here to say the same thing and maybe because there are complicated issues here we can start to use one of the words in a different way so that prejudice and racism are synonyms prejudice refers to this particular thing and racism we can take to apply to systemic racism or institutionalized racism yeah i think he's trying to defend his wife and i don't have any problem with that but at the same time i think he's incredibly arrogant i think he thinks his [ __ ] don't stink and he's a [ __ ] genius and we're all [ __ ] beneath him like little peasants i mean i i'm used to that condescending [ __ ] from atheists because every every youtube atheist thinks they're the smartest youtube atheist i mean are you right are you included in that dj oh there you go yeah see so i mean that's like that's a common delusion they're all idiots except me i'm a genius they should be better than that and they should really get away from all this atheism plus all this third wave feminism um it's it it doesn't do our community any good it's driving people away from them they get so much [ __ ] about it i don't know why they continue to do this it's embarrassing as what it is and i got tired of countless all right i couldn't post a video post a video about pascal's wager and people are saying oh atheism plus or feminism whatever it had absolutely nothing to do with it those who don't know matt's wife she's a huge feminist rabid feminist one of these third wave feminists um and a huge social justice warrior so she posted a meme that basically the gist of the meme was that only white people are capable of being racist that is this this idea that the looty left is spreading nowadays that it's not racism unless it's institutionalized racism and of course only white people have power institutions so only white people are capable of being racist which is in itself an incredibly [ __ ] racist idea so me and matt kind of got a fight about that on facebook he basically called me a bunch of names he called me a piece of [ __ ] said i was too stupid to debate him and i was like let's do it [ __ ] let's debate right now but he kind of he refused to debate and um and he went on the drunken peasant show which was tj's podcast at the time yeah i guess you can't run it but um and he wouldn't go on the show if i was allowed on there with he wouldn't go on yeah he wouldn't allow me to debate him so anyway when i went on i acted like an [ __ ] and i basically told him that i thought his wife wanted my dick i think matt might have been a little butt hurt by that i don't know i don't know why she stayed there without him i don't know what the deal was or what um but i asked her to take a picture so she took a picture of me i don't know if you that's my profile picture if you guys are on my facebook um and so then i left the first thing i said to do when i left is i think matt dillahunty's wife wants my dick because i did that's what i thought and i don't even talk like that that's the thing like i don't even [ __ ] talk i've never said that about a woman in my life oh you know i'm not that kind of guy but i was just getting a [ __ ] jerk this is how i felt i think that maybe they're swingers and maybe she was gonna proposition me to have a three-way with them or something and so he like walked off so it'd be less awkward like that's what i think happened i don't [ __ ] know but that's what i think probably happened but he goes on he goes on his facebook and says matt bill honey's wife is a con and she did all this stuff to me so um and then he comes on our show and basically lays out the narrative of she's in love with him um or has a crush on him whatever she wants she wants the d from him and that's why she's acting like this um and you're a [ __ ] and uh you know all you know he's talking [ __ ] it seems like uh it seems like some of these guys could do better i'm sorry i mean uh matt dillahunty i'm like dude you're famous step it up yeah i mean like you're you're the headline speaker dude do you really have to be with this psycho right up to the trophy wife dude you made it every single association i've had apart from um you know with seth and aaron i guess has has left me uh burned i have 7 000 plus unread emails right now and countless people trying to you know get me to do a debate or whatever else i've got to make draw lines and say okay this or is or isn't worth my time what it is is they have these atheist conventions and for the first time unlike high school guys like matt dillahunty and him at meta get to be the cool kids um and they hate what they they do that's true i've been to these conventions and you you can watch these guys they think they're just the coolest [ __ ] and they form these little clicks together and uh and so they all they spread this social justice warrior [ __ ] they hate on all of us and like to think they're superior to us and they try to act like bullies by attacking us they do not like me they do not like you they do not like jacqueline that's exactly the reason him at metta has attacked me on his blog that's the exact reason he's attacked jacqueline it's because they don't like any of us they're these [ __ ] snobs that think they're above us and they're not you're not [ __ ] above us i'm sorry we we put asses in seats better than you do and i know that [ __ ] pisses you off but it's the true just deal with it when they go to these atheist conventions they're very cliquish and for some reason at these atheists intervention these uh these extreme feminist social justice warriors have taken over like him at meta and and matt de la honey and if you i won't name the other ones but there's a few of them that form these clicks i think they just saw feed off each other you said that your views on animal morality are speciesist so with that did you mean that it is okay to kill animals and let's say in the context like needlessly when you don't need to so if you're at a grocery store if you have access to a grocery store and you can either choose to eat a fully vegan diet or if you choose to eat an omnivorous diet it's okay to needlessly kill an animal uh for food just because it's a different species than you is that what you meant by speciesist yeah so this is the thing what i mean about people arguing dishonestly because when you say is it okay to needlessly kill an animal you are injecting all sorts of context into this my position is really simple i am not convinced that eating meat is immoral okay well there needs to be a context i mean if you needed to eat meat to survive like if you were an indigenous person and you lived in a tribe um i'd say it is morally acceptable to eat meat because you need to survive but okay you're obviously not in that position you have access to a grocery store you don't need to kill animals to live and be healthy okay so you're basically making so you're basically claiming that it's okay to needlessly kill animals because they're not a part of our social contract and it doesn't affect us no see this is this is what i talk about when you guys are so repeatedly dishonest i did not say i'm not dishonest yes yes you are richard and i'm going to prove it to you and everybody else again right now because i already called you out for this same thing a few minutes ago i at no point said that it was okay to needlessly kill animals you cannot take shut up shut up you cannot take my position and respin it and paint it with your poisonous fallacious framing the problem here is that you are assuming that i am making a case for something being morally permissible when i am saying that i have not been convinced that something should be morally impermissible there are moral obligations and there are moral virtues and i am happy to acknowledge that someone who never kills an animal and lives their life that way may be more morally virtuous than me matter of fact i'll say it now i think they are that is not the same as a demonstration that there is a moral obligation to not kill animals for food and when i talk about where i draw lines and why it has to do with rights the ability to understand rights and the social contract we make and where we extend it to you're basing your moral outlook on two on two things on what social contract and reciprocation of rights no no i'm not i'm basing my moral outlook on well-being i'm basing my moral position well-being period period and when i talk about where i draw lines and why it has to do with rights the ability to understand rights and the social contract we make and where we extend it to not once did dilla hunty mention social contract or anything that resembles social contract theory it has to do with rights the ability to understand rights and the social contract we make and where we extend it to not once did dilla hunty mention social contract or anything that resembles social contract theory well-being period period okay well do you think it's i'm basing what rights are given based on the the the things that you just mentioned including reciprocation but not the individual ability for an individual to reciprocate but the categorical potential for reciprocation within a group okay well matt you if your moral like if the basis for morality is well-being then you should be in favor of veganism because it's not within the best interest like animals to kill and eat them okay so the issue here is uh rights whether or not we should extend no no the issue here is whether or not there's a moral obligation there is uh rights whether or not we should extend no the issue here is whether or not there's a moral obligation to not kill and eat animals not whether or not it might be morally virtuous okay uh so why do you believe it's not a moral obligation because nobody from your side has made an argument that it should be a moral obligation the default the default is freedom until there's a good reason to limit that freedom the default is maximal right freedom to needlessly kill animals what sorry you want you think it's an infringing on your freedom to needlessly kill animals that can think and feel just like you bye wow okay [Music] the other day i blocked someone on twitter and they were very very upset and suggested that me blocking them on twitter was somehow me silencing them but when i block someone on twitter that's for me i'm the only one who no longer sees their content i block people for the sake of my own sanity my own health and while i'm going through things where the doctors are saying try to make sure your pulse doesn't get above 120 and if you're feeling faint or whatever take a break um it becomes more necessary to block some people well i'm getting ready to go have well maybe not the best christmas ever although i am supposedly getting almost a new heart out of this christmas even though that wasn't necessarily my plan and i'm going to do everything in my power to recover and get back so that when we get into 2022 i can not only help guide people to the events that we're going to be doing at various conventions and everything else but provide content that you guys benefit from [Music] matt dillahunty saying quote i don't make arguments against veganism ellipsis ever ellipsis but i'm starting to think that eating meat is required for clarity of thought oh matt old boy oh matt you're 50 years old and you don't really know where milk comes from oh matt we just saw you doing a two and a half hour debate that was ever so erudite and one-sided in which you ultimately couldn't do anything with pleading ignorance oh oh matt you old rib tiggler you matt you dirt ignorant texan ex-military know nothing no talent bomb why why is matt doing taken seriously why he became a radio personality in texas on texas community radio on the basis of nothing he became known and to some extent respected for on the one hand you know being an agony aunt that's an old-fashioned slang term listening to people and their problems over the radio which is you know people called in and said boy i'm really upset because i've quit the church and now my whole family hates me doing that kind of sympathetic uh reception call and then on the other hand he really he just bullied people on the phone it was really i mean there's there's no reason to respect this guy intellectually there never has been i i don't make arguments against veganism ever matt delante continues and you've still failed to accurately represent my position have some bacon and try again oh oh matt oh matt you slay me you slay me with your refined debate stylings and sensibility could this be the same matt dillahunty who took on the erudite richard i think high school dropout vegan gains and managed to lose and then lie about it on the internet later in his latest interview with cosmic science oh well yeah you know vegan gains he had some really bad arguments and in fact he even agreed with me yeah right matt that's how that conversation went jesus christ anyway to wrap this up matt delahunty's quote continues yet more confusion and assertions when the reality is that i'm correctly applying the burden of proof which if you could meet it oh another little witticism if you could meet the burden of proof m-e-a-t question mark oh matt delonte oh if you could meet that burden of proof you wouldn't keep me to tweeting against straw men adios and then oh oh here's the big conclusion moral obligation versus moral virtue learn that first so look it's possible for me to imagine a conversation in which matt dillahunty was really using this distinction of moral obligation versus moral virtue to solve a problem that's what philosophy is supposed to be all about and he's not i mean this is a totally snide and insincere you know dismissal of of the problem now also the concept of burden of proof sometimes burden proof can be very important scientifically philosophically even legally this this is a joke this is again this is just totally insincere um you know dismissal of veganism basically and again we've just seen recently how totally incapable is of taking on taking on those kinds of questions those those kinds of problems if you've been watching this channel for a long long time i actually discussed the ethics of the fact we had a leader in the vegan movement we had a guy here on youtube who photographed himself wearing a nazi t-shirt and i point out look you know what we're really judging here is not that the t-shirt does any harm because a lot of people use kind of phony utilitarian ethics here the t-shirt did not kill millions of people buying the t-shirt doesn't give money to adolf hitler the nazi party he actually in that case made the t-shirt himself why is it so immoral why is it ethically such a big deal that he wears this t-shirt and improves the shirt it's because the judgment we're making is on you it's on the kind of person you are and who you aspire to be the the judgment here about matt de la hunty is about what kind of man are you you know that's ultimately what this is if you go around wearing a t-shirt that says i don't care about greenhouse gas emissions pork and bacon or something if you wear a t-shirt that says chicken wings for life or whatever i don't care about heart attacks you just want to eat beef you don't care about animal rights you just want to eat deep fried chicken that tells me a lot about you matt it tells me a lot about your morality and the way you so cynically invoke you know moral obligation versus moral virtue which again from what i've seen i i i don't okay if this were you know a legitimate area of philosophical inquiry if this is a philosophy that really meant something what problem does it solve what is the research question that is addressed by this now really really briefly i have been in several debates about the existence of objective morality with people who are sincerely interested in talking about it and one of the things i point out in those debates this isn't the end of the discussion i say look suppose you have two people and one believes the value of art is completely subjective it can never be you know fully specified iterated or it can never be made objective that ultimately beauty is in the eye of the beholder whether or not something is a great painting depends on different kinds of cultural and interpersonal and maybe even economic and aesthetic considerations that ultimately are utterly subjective they're no more real than a dream people decide the mona lisa is a great painting and it's a great painting because a bunch of people feel that way and that's about it um and people can change their minds a work of art a film a movie is considered the greatest film of its era and 10 years later doesn't seem so great anymore that that that's it there's nothing objective and then suppose someone else enters that that debate that discourses says no they feel really strongly that there is an objective an objective set of criteria that define some films as objectively good films and some as objectively bad some paintings as objectively that there is some spectrum of objectively real criteria that can establish whether art is good or bad even if that were conceded unless their position is that all art can be objectively evaluated this way then the argument is ultimately ridiculous and spurious and immaterial because look if you take a great painting you take the mona lisa and you light it on fire and then you you display the burned ruins the burn remains the mona lisa can you make an argument that objectively it's not a great painting anymore like it's not visible anymore it's been charred and and you know it's it's been damaged beyond recognition oh okay so gee we seem to be dealing with an objectively real criterion of something being a good painting like you can see it you know like oh okay a great work of architecture still has to be standing and not destroyed an earthquake a great film you know yeah we're watching game of thrones recently and the lighting is so bad you know okay so maybe their objective criteria for lighting and color balance you know something like this once you're into objective criteria you're never going to be talking about the range of things that we're really debating that really matter in real life and art so really really briefly if you have a bunch of applicants for a scholarship let's keep it on the same topic you have a bunch of aspiring young painters who send in their best works of art send in their drawings and their paintings and say hey i want a scholarship to go to arts college i want an opportunity to study at some some art academy you are not going to be debating if you are on the committee who chooses the winners and losers choose who gets the scholarship and who does not you are not going to be debating objectively great art and objectively terrible art something objectively good and bad art if any of the applicants are so terrible that there's no debate about that it's in that realm then those are not going to be what your attention is any of them are so wonderful it's like oh wow this kid is amazingly fantastic then they're in the pile of people who are definitely getting the the scholarship all of your time and energy is going to be on the cases that are near the border line near the cut-off where it's like well look we only have 50 scholarships we can give 50 students a chance this education so you're probably not even going to discuss the best 40 and you're not going to discuss the worst 200 however many you got okay they're going to be just a couple of cases near the cut-off line and all of the time and effort of the committee is going to be directed towards that so this brings us back to a case like cuba a case like iran okay cuba is not nancy germany it's not there aren't gas chambers there isn't a holocaust going on there that's so unbelievably awful that it justifies invading cuba and shutting down the gas chambers if it were it wouldn't be difficult to talk about right human rights problems in iran they're bad not remotely as bad as nazi germany it doesn't cross any of the thresholds where you can say okay look they're digging mass graves this is a situation so extreme that we have to have war and intervention okay the other examples are used prostitution the view of the left wing and the right wing and the center on prostitution it's a problem the corrupting influence of prostitution in society whether it's you know my ex-girlfriend going to her high school and they're being recruiters there or actually i've heard that a lot about japan too they're being kind of recruiters on the streets of tokyo okay you know there are there are these you know troubling questions about prostitution but this is not in the realm of some kind of objectively real humanitarian disaster where we then don't have to have the conversation uh okay drinking water is poisoning people and they're dropping dead in the thousands no debate it's an objectively real problem for government policy government's going to intervene guess what even if it's counter to your constitution if you happen to be living in a country where like let's say that it said in the constitution the federal government will have nothing to do with drinking water that remains the municipal government's promise just for the city government doesn't matter they'll send in the fbi or the cia or the send in the national guard they'll send in the army they'll do oh wow people are dropping dead because there's a drinking water problem we're into the realm of objectively real problems so again oh at what point is it a moral obligation as opposed to a moral virtue to have government intervention now policy universe should have these guns political mentions it's irrelevant those are never going to be the cases we're paying attention to we're always going to be looking at questions of virtue and we're going to be looking at the most dubitable the most doubtful the most you know the the the gray areas that are the hardest to deal with right i mean i don't i don't see anyone really sitting around wanting to morally ponder whether or not you should have an intervention when it's an absolute clear-cut case of mass poisoning mass murder or something you know okay these are these are areas where we need you know government intervention as as soon as well even an earthquake that's the earthquake that destroyed haiti i forget how many years ago now okay we need we need some some kind of intervention okay you know what i've been to downtown los angeles i've been to the bit of the beach where was it venice beach los angeles i could take some photographs of venice beach in los angeles where the humanitarian disaster looks worse than some parts of haiti after the earthquake you know you got people you know sleeping on the street sleeping in tents you got you've got a kind of slow motion humanitarian disaster in venice beach in los angeles right we're never going to be discussing or debating the the the situations of moral obligation all of these debates are going to be the area of moral virtue and they're going to be in the most gray the most indecisive the most difficult areas of martial arts okay look guys i'll wrap it up for this video there um matt dillahunty always was an idiot his whole line of approach on objective morality and moral obligation is not a philosophy i would go so far to say that this is an anti-philosophy because it's doing the exact opposite of what a philosophy ought to do philosophies are about problem solving methods they are not about obfuscation and all he's doing with his quote unquote philosophy is obfuscating and evading the point when he is presented with a genuine philosophical problem and compared to the future of iran the future of cuba the future of venice beach los angeles or the future of prostitution veganism veganism has got to be one of the easiest moral quandaries to think your way out someone who dodged the call from vegan gains again and again and again until he was you know vegans was trying to set up an appointment someone who's dodged you spent your whole life dodging these questions that that's what you are man matt de la hunty you are a moral and intellectual coward and yet you've made a career out of grandstanding on what you yourself say is one of the simplest issues in the world to grandstand on you think you're a genius because you figured out that when you pray to god nobody is listening well clap clap clap you caught up with something most of us knew at 12 years old and that doesn't put you in any position of moral leadership it doesn't make you an intellectual it doesn't make you a philosopher it makes you a pathetic self-important dried-up texan military man and i know we all know but after he did the the radio show he used to post where they would go to go to dinner after the radio show he said oh supporters of the show can come and eat here you can see the [ __ ] menu and matt if you got to age 50 and you never really sat down and wonder oh where does cheese come from you're still catching up with a whole lot of stuff that we knew at about age 12 and um ultimately the purpose of philosophy is not just to understand the world it's to change it i don't know how you've managed to go so far as a public intellectual while having absolutely no positive vision of the future of the world being a better place and of what you've got to do the sacrifices you've got to make the kind of commitment and hard work you'd have to do to accomplish it it's just it's just too much to ask for matt dillahunty to stop eating bacon to stop eating cheese matt when you read the history books who who do you look up to i've never heard him talk i've never really heard him talk about books he read in that way he really seems to be kind of illiterate troglodyte to be quite honest with you but like you know if if you who who are the who are the heroes now for people and secularism i mean is it you know is it galileo standing up and diana you know for what he believes in from is it socrates you know socrates who ultimately was put to death for what he believed in you know whose shoes would you walk a mile in matt i mean is it is it somebody like martin luther king whose life again died with a bullet to the head but who before that went through you know matt if you believe in this cause this be knighted cause you've you've chosen for yourself i think it's time for you to stand up and start being a little bit more of a heroic figure if not at age 50 you know you know when is it going to be [Music] there there's a there's a contingent of the ethical vegan community much like a contingent in the atheist community just have really bad arguments and i'm i'm undeniably speciesist about this i drink milk uh i've eaten cows too but the thing is even even if you know like you've got probably from the same count it's it's entirely possible so you've got vegans and then you've got vegetarians and lactose i drink milk and for a while i was convinced that well this is not this is a non-issue clearly not even in the same ballpark as whether or not i would kill a cow and then someone raised the the issue of okay you've got a situation where a cow has given birth and its calf is taken away so that it will keep producing milk yeah after forcible insemination and have you considered the impact the emotional impact of a cow of having you know its offspring removed from it and then you know continuing to get milk and the answer at that time was no i hadn't considered that at all and my answer now is i don't know that we can actually assess the psychological trauma of a cow i don't know necessarily how we would go about it because what i see people doing is saying oh an animal looks up with you with those eyes or tries to run away so clearly it's expressing its desire to not be and quite frankly i don't think that most animals can process that on a cognitive level to where they're expressing no don't eat meat having lived and grown up on a farm and been around cows and milk cows granted i'm not remotely an animal psychologist i don't see any of the presentations that we would say yes this cow is suffering psychologically in in the same way that a human yes i'm not i am opposed to factory farms that engage in cruelty but i've also lived and grown up on farms and which by the way i do play right that means you're against factory farms yes but i don't think you need you say you're against factory farmers well you're kind of overly cool to animal that just means you're against factory cars no gotta do it like i'm what we are talking about is a situation in which the the single biggest thing that you can do to tackle climate change the single biggest thing you can do to minimize unnecessary suffering without actually having to to suffer in a meaningful sense yourself is as simple as just choosing something else on the menu that's the situation we're in and to me it's very difficult to see how if we're making a distinction between moral obligation and virtue that mean that that is meaningful in any way how that could possibly not fall within the category of obligation i don't remotely disagree the thing is do you think it does fall within the category of obligation well you not necessarily somebody can give me the information and data and make that argument because right now no offense to you i'm i'm happy to accept that you know far more about this than i do and that your information is likely to be correct um but quite frankly this is this is easily the longest conversation i've ever had about this particular subject and i i can't just as much as i like you i couldn't possibly just take you at your word so this is just an issue of ignorance on my part is there a way for me to eat meat where i don't have any of the immoral problem one of the things to consider is what's the impact on humans [Music] if i stop eating meat [Music] i mean so for instance uh eating the agricultural industry farmers ranchers truckers all of them lose business it's also that contributes to the greater good of humans but do you think what do you think contributes more to the greater good of humans making sure those people keep their jobs or combating climate change all right now now we've now jumped into another route the reason i ask is because the agricultural industry is the single biggest uh contributor to climate change yes far more than travel and things like that all put together we always have in front of these guys 300 gallons of water across the way we keep almost 400 gallons and we do so down the other farm we have a truck that's dedicated solely with a tank on it filling it with water and that's part of our daily routine there's about 319 million people living in the u.s and the average american eats about 71 pounds of red meat and 54 pounds of poultry per year multiply that by america's population and it will total 22.65 billion pounds of red meat and 17.23 billion pounds of poultry meat production requires more water than fruits vegetables for grains per pound for example one pound of beef requires 1800 gallons of water while one pound of wheat requires about 200 gallons of water those animals aren't going to go away when we stop eating them well you know yes they are i mean once the demand so there are currently unthinkable uh numbers of animals that are specifically being bred to be tortured and slaughtered if the demand goes down then they simply just won't be born anymore and so the animals aren't going to go extinct so maybe the better solution is to do like a thanos snap and eliminate half the human beings if you just kill half of the people on the planet that's not good for human well-being see and i'm not convinced we have an overpopulation crisis okay but even if we don't like right you could say that one way to combat climate change would be to cut the population half well sure another way to combat climate change driving cars would be to stop driving cars but an even better way than both those things probably put together is to stop eating meat and in fact i think the single biggest thing that you can do as an individual to combat your personal uh like ecological footprint is to stop eating meat raising livestock takes up a huge amount of water because we need to produce massive amounts of feed producing feed for animals not only take up a lot of water to produce but it takes up land that can be used to grow crops for humans cattle raised for me consume equals to the caloric need of 8.7 billion people more than the current population of 7 billion and if that's the case then not only do we now have a situation where there is there is the whole the whole argument of the ethical worth of animals and that's one thing you've now got this entirely separate argument about the environmentalism and how that's going to affect you and future generations so so one of the things and this is not so first of all having addressed been presented with this before uh i'm not even disagreeing with you on the impact changes uh but the truth of the matter is [Music] this is i think my objection here isn't even one it's not a matter of practicality okay because we know the overwhelming majority of people aren't going to take this step and so an individual taking this step isn't going to contribute yeah but you can say the same thing about voting but you can say the same thing about voting but you can say the same thing about voting i would probably be a moral more moral person and probably to be doing more for the world if i just stopped [Music] never remotely denied that the thing is the factors that would keep me eating meat under some circumstance not all have so far outweighed the factors that would make me stop and what are those factors if you had to will yeah whittling them down is kind of difficult raising animals for food also produce massive amounts of waste approximately 130 times more than the entire human population farms which raise animals are also responsible for polluting our waterways with animal waste pesticides chemicals fertilizers hormones and antibiotics this is more than all other industrial sources combined so the climate change argument by the way is the strongest one of all of them for me personally when other people presented this about you know the impact of this i'm like yeah that's an issue and if if that's the case and i have accurate information then yep on board but that's a separate issue from the moral the types of moral arguments that i'm often presented with which is you know oh don't kill the poor animals is there a way for me to eat meat where i don't have any of the immoral problem like people would just think that you just don't care enough about animals and they could be right [Music] maybe we can we can practice