Delusions of Gor: Interviews with John Norman on the Gorean Philosophy.

although we have this saying in English
don't judge a book by its cover the truth is that the cover is an important part of the book a large percentage of the readers and devotee of John Norman's book series Gore the counter-earth chronicles the gory and saga what if wanna call it a large percentage of the readers would admit that they started reading in the first place because as teenage boys the highly sexually suggestive cover art caught their eye and stoked their curiosity what's more interesting to note in this case is that the first editions of the books when they were first published the United States of America had covers that were in absolutely no way sexually suggestive or provocative the publishing companies plural who tried to make money into these books only realized in retrospect many years later just how pornographic these books were they went back and issued 2nd and 3rd editions later editions of these books had increasingly sexually explicit covers as they figured out that's what the audience was interested in that was what the market was and even that was the core content of these books that the author was trying to get across so we look at the content of these books and we look at the intent of the author there is a peculiar tension with what is written out so plainly shall we say in the cover art of these books and that is these books are at least erotic if not outright pornographic but here's where the strange tension lies no one could have less of a detached good-humoured attitude towards this than the author of the books himself I think there would be no political controversy surrounding the gore books whatsoever if he had the same sort of relaxed Hollywood entertainers attitude as someone like Kevin Smith Kevin Smith is a film writer movie director what-have-you if he just had the attitude of well you know these books are a little bit eccentric but so long and so are my readers well you know it's all in good fun who hasn't had a whacky off the wolf and he said this once well no no no the enduring significance of this these books and their enduring infamy and their source of political controversy is created by the incongruous fact that the author was a professor of philosophy and he took these books seriously to a mind-blowing extent as not merely his satire in our society as it is now but the pronouncement of his political and social philosophy for what our society ought to be and that makes the sexual content shall we say all the more disturbing and all the more worthy of reflecting on in the next few minutes of this video quote perhaps the books touch on neglected or suppressed human constants male and female perhaps they have something to say which has not been said for a long time they are probably unique or also so in modern literature it raises serious questions about the intellectual superstructure of Western civilization oh I'm sorry I'm sorry the cover of the books doesn't just matter to the members of the audience the reading public how is it possible for this guy who is a professor of philosophy in New York State how is it possible for him to hold up the book with these sexually graphic covers on it how is it possible for him to be making millions of dollars out of peddling porn porn based on his own twisted sexual fantasies and to say dead serious with a straight face in this way these books are unique in modern literature in raising serious questions both intellectual superstructure of Western civilization absolutely nothing about the cover of these books suggests that they're raising serious intellectual questions and let me tell you something as this video goes on I think you and my audience will come to agree with me that nothing about the content of these books raises such serious questions they have intellectual content there are ideas in them perhaps that is what so outrages some critics he here compares himself to no less important to think her then James Watt the adventure of the steam engine many scientific breakthroughs related the transformation of the the modern West he compares himself in writing these sex fantasies to James Watt in challenging and transforming our civilization quote hero of Alexandria in the second century BC invented this dimension James Watt in the 18th century designs and improved steam engine and alters the course of human civilization I think a similar phenomenon has occurred with books how is it possible to be this deluge let's just pause the reflect on this for a moment again keeping the laureate cover art in mind what is the discovery that he thinks is equivalent to discovering the steam engine industrialization electricity these customers what is the breakthrough that he's saying people knew in ancient times in the second century BC and then they're rediscovering now in his sexy fantasy books it's slavery his idea is that in ancient Greece they had kinky sex slavery and now here he is again rediscovering and been profoundly transforming kinky sex slavery you know the same sense that James Watt no didn't just rediscover this image and he profoundly changed their civilization the claim is that john norman in writing the gore books is now going to transform the future of our civilization by rediscovering something for the past that was forgotten and what is he's rediscovering is men taking women captive enslaving them and in plain english raping them and that his claim is this isn't just the only thing that can make men happy this is the only thing to make women happy it's the only way to set Western civilization back hunts right path so gay a little bit of a contrast from the joking self effacing attitude of someone like Kevin Smith Kevin Smith very often is challenged about the fact that one film or another of his is absolutely terrible perhaps the majority of his films are absolutely terrible and he's able to sit there in a relaxed way and say well he's just a storyteller he's just having fun and some people like it if that or John Norman's attitude toward his creative output I think I can say we wouldn't be having this conversation right now there wouldn't be any political controversy surrounding these books but I think because this was his had a suit because he took this some strident philosophical and political position I think this controversy is never gonna die I think 100 years from now the gore books and their fans are gonna be with us and they're gonna be moot new movies being made out of them I think the inspiration like like Conan the Barbarian like Star Wars I think there are some elements of this that will that will never ever die I'm doing I'm doing my part quote obviously my books answer to certain deep needs in human beings if they were not important to people if they did not have something important to say something which apparently desperately needs saying they would not be as popular as they are close quote now this type of claim is very difficult to make about comedy I could say that when I was a child I responded to the comedy of Chris Rock stand-up comedian because it spoke to certain repressed political problems that existed in downtown Toronto Canada most obviously the the shadow of the Black Panther radicalism of the 1970s and the divisions between black and white ethnic conflict and this kind of thing there was something I could say that his comedy that it meant for me that made this seem in powerful important but to make these kinds of generalizations even with comedy even with something as explicitly political as comedy can be is incredibly dangerous I mean if we're being honest why did Chris Rock become so popular did it have nothing to do with the fact that he makes a lot jokes about cheating on his wife and sleeping right it's just an incredibly fat us self-serving path we start to go down when we try to justify you know what appeals to us even in comedy or even in politics as representing something profound for all human beings or something shifts in our own time and as I'm suggesting here with this illustration it's much much more surreal much much more self-serving and delusional when we say this about pornography rather than when we say this about comedy or something with an explicit political message right on screen there I'm contrasting two women who were respectively the most successful pornographic actresses in there in their time alright one is Eva Elfi and one is gianna michaels so about 12 years apart these women were the the leading pornographic stars what what can you read into this what what you know okay I could try to construct some kind of social commentary like well you know um 12 years ago hip-hop music was going through this period where you know female body image linked to rapid you can try you can try but you know what the truth is there's absolutely nothing we can read into this at any given moment including right now you can google around the internet and you could find a dozen women who look just like gianna michaels and a dozen women who just look like evil feet just very similar looking people who never became stars who never became wildly popular you can find all kinds of cross currents in culture that way but especially in something that blatantly appeals to the erotic right but there is no rational explanation for why one person was a successful actress and another person what one person became famous and another person languish in obscurity when they were just as beautiful or what have you and you know why because desire is irrational desire is the most irrational and arbitrary part of human nature but if you're looking at the cover of the gore books if you're looking at these pictures of women in bikinis with swords and so on it doesn't take that much imagination to figure out that yes indeed we're dealing with the erotic corner grab desiring sight of human nature that irrationally fastens on one woman and becomes fascinated with her and makes her famous and makes it the most famous sex symbol of her generation and feels to fasten on another all right the arbitrariness of fame is quite surreal if you're talking about comedy or action movies or adventure movies or it's already are enough but when you step into the blatantly erotic when you step into the realm of pornography the extent to which its arbitrary irrational and not susceptible to analysis or is on a whole other level let's let's not go any further with quoting the interviews with John erm let's not go any further with the philosophy of John Norman in his own words without a little soul a little taste of what it is you're missing out in in these books what it is that he characterizes as having so much profound intellectual content and transforming our civilization etc etc in this book Norman continues his pattern of storytelling interspersed with detailed explanations of how to train a slave how to make a longbow I would have trained a slave how to make a ship how to train a slave how to fight naval warfare how to train a slave did I did I mention how to train a slave this guy is joking about the extent to which these books incredibly repetitiously try to inculcate this philosophy of male dominance of female slaves and the readers he's joking about it but notice at the top of the screen four stars many of the harshest critics of the gore series are people openly admit they love the books they enjoy the books but they can admit and they could joke about the extent to which this is really kind of preferred sand bizarre and repetitious and reflects some kind of monomania or insanity on the part of the author or another four-star review of the same book torille has a bit of an existential crisis and even though I like this book the reason behind it was handled very poorly and so out of character that is laughable and he decides that money is what he wants in life and so he becomes a pirate our taro suddenly has no problem with torturing his captives he also has no with keeping lots of slaves and pimps slapping them at will and going beast mode on them at the slightest infraction despite the big tonal shift I actually like this entry into the gore Canon although much of the old recipe is still in effect here taro meets woman woman and taro are mean to each other taro and woman eventually fall in love after woman realizes how awesome slavery is again this is a critique coming from someone who loves the books and who appreciates what the author does intellectually or in terms of providing a good adventure story what whoever it is he may human version this isn't someone who hates the books but this is someone who that can admit how deeply flawed their readers of the books whether they love them or hate them debate at what point the series started to go downhill at what point the author's sexual political and philosophical obsessions started to destroy the quality of the books but many of them would name this specific book raiders of gore as the turning point prior to this there was at least some ethical tension in that the main character in the books disapproved of slavery and as you've just heard from this book forward after he briefly becomes a slave himself he a hundred and ten percent embraces slavery and this becomes a univocal soap box for the author to preach his pro-slavery pro rape pro violence to women views without the ethical ambiguity that was provided by having a main character even a narrator who in the earlier books at least felt some kind of misgivings about embracing that ëthis from website called books without any pictures based on reviews have read there's a point where the series starts to go way downhill i've definitely reached that point it also represents a major departure from the series thus far because instead of focusing on Carl Tibet the hero of all the previous books it instead chooses to use an earth woman as the protagonist Elinor Brinton a rich [ __ ] New York City socialite who hates men that's her defining personality trait her only personality trait one night Eleanor is captured and taken to Gore where it's pretty obvious what happens to her she quickly learns that on Gore women have no social status and she changes hands between a variety of different men here's a one-star review if you were into domination and Submission then this is the book for you if not it will bore you out of your brain despite the rather well-crafted science fantasy world the story inhabits there is page after page of stuff like this naked and in Chains humiliated spoiled rich [ __ ] lifts her head and rages I am NOT a slave I am NOT a slave barbarian hunk roars and strikes her across the face and then kicks her in the guts say you are a slave wench soething humiliated spoiled rich [ __ ] hangs her head and says I am a slave I am a slave I kid you not that is the book and I've just saved you a lot of time another one star review everyone said that this book marks the point that the gore novel will start going downhill as a big fan of the novel's I didn't want to believe it well let me tell you this novel is awful here is the plot in a scene which is repeated over and over and over girl quote I am NOT a slave man you are a slave girl okay I am a slave and it feels so right the end this book represents something of a turning point in this series in terms of its misogyny for the first time I think it actually mentions the concept of rape previously the book series was coy about it using youth of isms like taking possessing enjoying etc but in this book it actually mentions rape directly or explicitly likewise this book for traits actual violence against the women being hunted slash enslaved a particular unfortunate being shot through the shoulder and pinned to a tree by an arrow it also describes in greater detail the physical meaning inflicted on women who do not adequately adapt themselves to their lives of sexual enslavement this is also the most sexually explicit of the books thus far previously the narrative would always pan to the moon or fade to black whenever sexy time begins this book it's a little braver before cutting away which is of course one of the most baffling things about this series yes it's all about male dominance and the glorification of rape culture quite literally quote [ __ ] her until she loves you close quote but it doesn't bother to realistically portray the psychological / emotional ramifications of this behavior what fun would that be so there's clearly a fantasy for those who enjoy that kink but why is it that he's so shy about the actual sex many of the reviews ask this one why does it not actually describe the sex you get all these descriptions of chains chains and whips and like the procedures of enslaving people but then the sex itself the author seems to be uncomfortable actually describing beyond the use of some vague euphemisms slave girl of gore gets a one-star review any reviews of this book have to begin with a comparison to captive of Gore captive of Gore was the first book in the series to be narrated by someone other than taro being narrated by an earth female captured and taken to Gore as a slave just want to pause to note absolutely by definition none of this is about BDSM because none of this is about people consensually having sex or playing games this is not about consensual sex between adults this is about people being abducted kidnapped taken captive verbally raped etc okay this is very clearly and explicitly not about consensual sex so anyone who happens to click on this video who's a fan of these books please accept the fact that that is what you are in the position of making excuses for you're actually making excuses for a political philosophy that's asserting people genuinely violating one another's consent taking people captive and slaving them etc is for the victims own good because John Norman argues inwardly and secretly that is what women want even if they don't know it yet until after this traumatic experience happens to them so she is an earth female taken captive and relocated to Gore this is essentially the same story as the earlier book captive of Gore in Cabul of Gore we have Eleanor brenton a rich [ __ ] socialite who is beaten into submission until she likes it in slave girl of gore we have Judy Thornton a college student taking the gore and raped into submission until she likes it there are a few differences between the books that are noteworthy one of the main differences in the books is that while Elinor in the earlier book resisted her slavery mostly through whining and screaming Judy in the later book took to it quickly too quickly Judy is literally melting in the hands of her rapists and quote realizing her place close quote within hours of being drugged and transported to an alien world while Elinor remained in shock for much of her own story which is more believable and was constantly crying plotting and scheming to get out of a predicament Judy instantly converts from a naive virginal opinionated coach student to a gushing love-starved submissive sex slave both books however make the same point about that conversion it's what women really want a subtle difference between the books is that captive of gore took an approach that some women just don't know what they want and all you have to do is beat them and rape them until they realize it however slave girl goes further than captive by claiming that all women are submissive and natural sex slaves and they can't wait to show you Norman steps of this rhetoric from book to book at least he's consistent [Music]