Theatricality and honesty, in politics, on the internet, and in real life.

well might as well just restate what it
was the start of the it's very brief because I it out I said that I don't think that theatricality and honesty are mutually exclusive on the contrary I think that sometimes you know the way to be honest you know requires theatricality like you need to be theatrical in order to be honest in order to express something honestly may involve a certain kind of theatricality then the other premise just linked to that was the idea that democracy itself involves theater and theatricality and it has since since ancient Athens so I do see that kind of performance in theatricality of things so you know now I know he asked me a question before that was in response to and then I'm not I'm not sure what his objection is to that but that's what he said is that he's for some reason he reacts negatively to this generalization I can't understand why you might say that but what I was trying to argue is that like if you do stay like if you start being true to yourself like have you ever experienced that like by being calm and relaxed and not using the at reality to prove your point that you will have nothing to do so why do you need to use yeah okay okay so I think there is something to lose I think there is a real disadvantage to not being theatrical and you see that in democracy in ancient times and still today so you know in American government in the American system of Congress in the Senate when people were arguing against cigarettes that cigarettes cause cancer they brought in heartbreaking examples of people whose lives have been destroyed by cigarettes and they stood there in front of Congress and they broke count weeping and this is a significant form of theatricality seatbelts trying to get laws about seatbelts even the debates legally about the side effects of certain medicines they bring in people whose lives have been destroyed her father whose daughter was killed and they give really passionate voice to that a another infamous example by the way I'm putting together the case for the Iraq war they've brought in someone who had allegedly you know was talking about suffering in the Iraq war and it was later revealed that this was to some extent a phony or misleading instance they're just within modern American politics the Vietnam War Iraq war and so on the theatricality is a really significant part of democracy now could I come on YouTube and talk about vegan activism in a completely dispassionate or even robotic way I could it's a choice not to could I talk about my own divorce or my own personal life in a dispassionate vote I could it's a choice not to so you know I'm just saying I'm someone who's consciously aware of that and there's a certain level of theatricality in my in my YouTube videos and there is in real life also I would I would say as a very real example that many people here will have experienced what if you are begging with a police officer or a border guard someone who has real direct power over you a power of life and death and power to [ __ ] up your life what if you have to convince someone in that position to do the right thing or the choice being robotic or dispassionate or something or not expressing your case emotionally is not is not in your favor so I think theatricality is an important part of public life including YouTube and including you know to formal democracy and informal situations we're all not sure I understand what you said I guess I'm arguing against using like like when you had that debate with either buster you are like you know being aggressive towards him do you thought that you could have been more like calm and just like just prove your point without I could have but it's a choice so as I've outlined I mean it's it's a choice [Music] have you thought about like what he may feel after if you do it like aggressive like that take your point like he may start to be more defensive and then you have you ever thought like okay no I should just relax tell him properly so that he doesn't try to get the wrong idea yes and does he think about how I feel right what what about how I feel does that count for nothing this is a one-to-one consideration there are his feelings they're also my feelings involved the other consideration is the audience what the performance means for the audience III don't think living I'm going to just one more sentence I don't think living a lie is good for me I don't think it's good for him and I don't think it's good for the audience either I don't I think that authenticity and really sharing how you feel about things I think is good for me is good for him and it's good for the audience I saw it on civil that when like you're a back-and-forth conversation with I saw Buster in the chat like what I saw from it is that maybe he like you know I watched your videos and what you say is thought-provoking so maybe I feel like he may not have seen this side from you while you are debating him and maybe like yeah I understand your concern I understand your concern but I mean I think another another kind of criterion to bring to this would be to ask this oh this isn't the question you're asking this to be a stronger question to demand me you could ask aisel your theatrical behavior do you think it makes you more friends or makes you more enemies or like is this a good way to make friends so I just say that would be your same kind of objection but more forcefully stated and my answer to that is you know by being really honest with people I make the right friends because if I came on if I were phony or I really pretended to be someone I'm not then the people who might want to be friends of me they wouldn't be the right people so people get to see hey I'm really passionate about this issue I'm really indifferent to this other issue and pissed off with us of that and then you know the right people will respond to that in the right way and you know I really accept that you know I can't be friends with everyone and that you know I'm gonna alienate some people that way it's true but like to give a very real example I would have more friends if I pretended to be a socialist or even if I pretend to be a communist sympathizer or a communist supporter I really would and you could look at veganism is very left-wing you know within my lifetime it would have been a as a winning strategy I could have been a phony far leftist of one kind or another whether I was an sjw or socialist or would have even now there's pressure on me to just be an uncritical supporter of Bernie Sanders and I'm not some things I agree with Bernie Sanders not others and I'm really gonna keep it honest but like you know I have one new friend now who's actually a member of the Conservative Party which I thought would never happen not a lot of conservatives like neither but you know the right people people who look at that performance and concede my feeling and see what I feel and what I feel as well as what I think the right people will become my friends and by being phony or being insincere I don't think I don't think that would lead to those positive outcomes so you know I understand your objection but what you're positing fundamentally would be that having a kind of emotionally neutral delivery would be advantageous in all situations or maybe there's most situations and you know I think that has very real disadvantages also I agree with you I can understand what you're saying and you give that example where like I think they were but using trick allottee like some some example about the people a time from smoking and I think that's like that wouldn't like provoke I don't maybe I think that that has a less chance to provoke someone as opposed to being aggressive toward them and then I have this question for us how can you be in a way that like if you are going to use aggression but then you think about it like maybe I shouldn't do it how would you effectively make these people understand your point even though you know that like I I could make more friends if I was just not doing the right thing you know if I'm trying to sympathize with them but that's not what you're trying to do but you are trying to make them try to understand your point without them feeling like they're being attacked okay it's it's kind of a long complex question as I say it's true if you took a more insincere approach you'd make more friends but they would be the wrong friends right so you know an example I don't even know if ask yourself and of Isaac would recognize this name but you know privileged vegan and Maxie I made very harsh criticisms of them on my channel and I know I know at least from privileged vegan that my criticism er did shock her when she was she respond to it negatively she was not pleased to hear the criticism I directed her that's now a couple of years ago so if you make the argument oh well why don't you be insincere why don't why not why not take another approach um I'd I really regard someone as an immoral person for example and I'm expressing my frustration with their morality for example if I think they hold a position that's racist or that's making excuses for mass murder or this kind of thing you know I I don't really see how it can be coherent even like on a psychological level for me to dissimulate being someone other than I am and feeling something other than I am for the value of an abstract friendship that I don't I wouldn't value myself and at that point I think again you have to remember if we're talking about only two people we're not including the audience in the equation I mean like right now there's an audience here whom we may be boring which is too bad it might be a more entertaining be more entertaining debate for them if I were if I were more angry and aggressive with you but if you're just considering the two people then I don't really think it makes sense to only value the emotions of one of the two people like if I have to if I have to suffer so that the other person doesn't suffer and the kind of suffering we're talking about here is a very you know marginal suffering like for example of what you're saying is it makes a communist uncomfortable to be reminded that their ideology is linked to tens of millions of deaths or indeed I've also criticized neo-nazis very harshly on my channel that it upsets them to be confronted with this this kind of truth or this kind of counter-argument you know I I just I just don't buy it and of course the other thing that's that's ridiculous about being a vegan in the world is that of course there are people I have really I have a really serious moral conflict with the vast majority of people on earth so you know to give you an example very recently a lot of people have seen those videos I had I had two videos harshly criticizing an ex vegan called a wacko Jacko Vigano now every other YouTube channel I think except me had this kind of loving soft approach of like well you know he's gone back to eating meat but maybe he could come back they all really treated him with kids gloves and I made a video really harshly condemning him saying no I mean you know let's let's be real let's really talk this this is linked bad and evil and wrong now who's gonna be my friend as a result of that video well people well maybe people who agree with me or people who sympathize with me or people who value the honesty but what what possible good would it do for me for the other person or for my audience through me being being dishonest and by the way that's also a great example of theatricality and honesty being compatible because it's true like in that video I'm thinking of where I'm really condemning him you know where I'm speaking in an angry or aggressive manner of course it's theatrical like I'm not actually angry in a sense but you know what I'm doing is giving voice to something very honest and real I'm demonstrating I'm acting out you know my convictions are what is a what is I have to say so you know you know theatricality is not the enemy of honesty I think these things can go together and it's an important part of of democratic and political discourse both on this kind of personal one-to-one level and when you scale it up