Joe Vegan's Melodramatic Exit (Two Commentaries)
29 October 2016 [link youtube]
Some commentary added in the midst of a minor masterpiece of editing from "Stayin Alive", a long-time commenter but first-time videographer. Find his/her channel here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXDXLSK5eKiNX5NdebCrDew/videos
Youtube Automatic Transcription
[Music]
[Applause] [Music] [Applause] so I've been sat here thinking about quitting YouTube the title is not clickbait I'm literally thinking I want to quit [ __ ] YouTube and a lot of you will have noticed changes on my channel recently changing the name from Jovi you that's my it's not in a mean-spirited way that I'd like to say on the record that in large part Joe vegans analysis of his own situation as he makes his swan song exit from the digital demi-monde of aspiring vegan activist here on YouTube his analysis of his situation is remarkably similar to what my analysis of his situation was a few weeks ago or even a few months ago and I did try to talk to him about this stuff privately and there were some comments some back-and-forth when he and I publicly and I feel he was a little bit dishonest and disgraceful in what he had to say about me and how he represented or misrepresented my position that debate but let's leave that aside as he's now resolved to quit forever his former mission to satirize the digital vegan demi-monde let me read a comment that Joe made I believe yesterday depending on what time's us this a typewritten comment that Joe made here on YouTube Joe says thanks to the video Andrew he's responding to a guy named Andrew Margot Marlowe really appreciate it mate when you were running a drama channel in any genre the hate you are receiving is not necessarily hate the minority is just senseless bias hate but the majority is people of sound mind trying to tell you that what you are doing is wrong some very so just pause this very interesting comment from Joe vegan I do not know if he feels that I'm in that category of people of sound mind trying to tell him that what he was doing is wrong but that's how I'd consider myself and I didn't generalize um I I don't think everything he did is wrong I gave him a very balanced and I wrote him a lot of positive things to which he completely ignored in his responses that might be the kind of guy he is also some people are like that you know some people if you write them a letter and it has five points of criticism and five points of praise they only hear the criticism but I was quite balanced but I did point out honestly what things he was doing that were wrong um and I also praised him for the things I thought he was doing right or that I thought he excelled at I did do both so I continued reading Joe's comment about himself leaching off other people's content and criticizing people as if you are some sort of authority figure is a horrible thing to do period yeah okay pause e and that's an interesting comment from Joe there are two halves to that I think the leaching aspect is maybe one of the more interesting that people don't seem to reflect on a talked about as much it is weird to me that so many of the channels that say they hate me actually our derivative of me like their videos they rely on people like me to create real content and then they leach off my content they produce something derivative there a secondary source and I'm a primary source that is a very strange dynamic he says and if we're being totally honest I got carried away with the subs and views failing to realize that I was being just as bad as the narcissistic sociopath pathological lying criminals who do the same things period so you see how he got a subtle insult where this is subtle if you wanted you might not catch it but he had an insult directed towards his competitors here on YouTube very subtly worked into that sentence um but the first half the sense is that he got carried away with the subs in the views and I agree that was part of my analysis of what his problem was and I said that to him publicly as well as you privately and not in a stupid Hershell away I thought he really didn't understand how pandering to your audience is a problem and how it perverts your whole mission of what you're doing here on on YouTube whether you think of that in terms of vegan activism or just in terms of entertainment because even as an entertainer there are really hard questions of the ethics of being an entertainer of your creative process and whether you how you engage your audience how you confront your audience's expectations how you subvert their expectations how you play with what the audience is expecting you to do then you don't just pander to your audience you don't just do whatever it takes to get more views and more subs and in his case from the one example just to keep it simple I do not think Joe vegans should have pretended that he didn't know the reality of my legal case at a time when he did and that was something it's just a very simple example of pandered audiences his explanation was that's what his audience wanted here that was funnier that was more entertaining and I don't think he should have pretended that someone like Joe passed Joe best is a different youtuber who's also vegan or Semmy vegan or plant-based you know he shouldn't have pretended that someone like that was a credible source when he wasn't Joe vegan knew very well the type of lies that in the past the other Joe Joe best had had published because Joe had even Joe had even lied about Joe Joe best had put up lies and defamation against Joe vegan in the past which Jovian was sensitive I pointed out those things in my critiques of cheetah which cheetah couldn't handle at all but back in the day I was pointing out two cheetah that one of his most important failings was that he was treating unreliable sources as if they were reliable just to make a story more dramatic or just to make it more entertaining or just a pander to his audience and again the ethics of entertainment are here as much as the ethics of journalism or the ethics of politics or what have you even if you're thinking about this just in terms of fiction or entertainment or what-have-you I mean because Joe vegan did both he was doing kind of a news reporting role as well as a satirist role you got to think about these things got to take him seriously but anyway I'm gonna build something amazing in the real world cheers bud it's how Joe vegan closes that maybe maybe you are Joe but you know one of the really productive things I wanted to do with you was engage you in a discussion about the practicalities of how you were gonna operate your you know animal sanctuary I want to talk about the economics as well as the ethics with you and I wanted to have you on my channel do that to promote you to my small audience but my my audience is quite serious they really care about that stuff they really interested Europe that conversation would have reached a few thousand of really the right people and I don't know Joe I I do not have any faith whatsoever that you're gonna own and operate an animal sanctuary and I don't have the impression all that you've even thought through let alone done a feasibility study and really sketched out and dealt with the complexities and difficulties you've been faced you'd be facing and doing that and I think even if you get starred in that and I say this with all due sympathy I think you're gonna face a fork in the road at one point where you have to choose between doing what's right for your wife and child and doing what's right for that dream you had of running an animal sanctuary in Portugal well it's a dream but I think when you have to choose between devoting your time and effort to your wife and kid and devoting your time and effort to that dream a wife and kid are gonna take priority every time and believe me I can sympathize believe me I can relate because those the conversations I have to make too and that's one of the reasons why I'm currently living in China and learning Chinese and I'm not living in Saskatchewan working on Korea in a cheap way I'm not working in other things that might matter to me more that might contribute to my own career more as well as my own personal interests because I still have obligations to my ex-wife and to my daughter growing up in Europe so whatever man my heart goes out to you Jo but your exit from YouTube the one thing I can say is I hope this isn't another fake retirement because we've had a lot of that lately we've had hennya and many others saying dramatically that they were gonna leave YouTube hennya said that she felt her life was in danger here on YouTube you know we have no special effects we have no plot with no drama the only thing the only currency we've got is our honesty so let's keep it real you know if you're gonna quit YouTube okay I sympathize it's a real story you know you seem to be sharing real emotions but now you got to actually follow through you got to actually do it you got to quit YouTube I'd say the same to any or anyone else you know although I mean you know otherwise we get into again these kind of really phony dramatic things that ultimately just drag the name of veganism through the mud and make this whole medium into a joke I myself you know mentioned all the time I don't have a lot to give but what I do have to give is to you know come on YouTube and share some of my real-life experience some of my perspectives and my opinions with a small number of people want to hear it and that's the realest thing in the game I'd be happy still to this day to have you on my channel to talk about running that animal sanctuary talk about your dreams under that heading as I said recently I still got love for you but um I think you just figured out you know a few months too late what I figured out a few months ago what I was really trying to constructively discuss with you and tell you about what you were doing wrong including you know how it was harming me how it how it hurt me I had the honesty to do that with you and when it mattered you simply didn't want to hear it because you get views you get money on YouTube the first time for someone like me on YouTube now get subscribers get log but isn't in alignment with who I am I'm gonna take some time because I think our community has been destroyed it isn't right you I think of some way to get in after all [Music]
[Applause] [Music] [Applause] so I've been sat here thinking about quitting YouTube the title is not clickbait I'm literally thinking I want to quit [ __ ] YouTube and a lot of you will have noticed changes on my channel recently changing the name from Jovi you that's my it's not in a mean-spirited way that I'd like to say on the record that in large part Joe vegans analysis of his own situation as he makes his swan song exit from the digital demi-monde of aspiring vegan activist here on YouTube his analysis of his situation is remarkably similar to what my analysis of his situation was a few weeks ago or even a few months ago and I did try to talk to him about this stuff privately and there were some comments some back-and-forth when he and I publicly and I feel he was a little bit dishonest and disgraceful in what he had to say about me and how he represented or misrepresented my position that debate but let's leave that aside as he's now resolved to quit forever his former mission to satirize the digital vegan demi-monde let me read a comment that Joe made I believe yesterday depending on what time's us this a typewritten comment that Joe made here on YouTube Joe says thanks to the video Andrew he's responding to a guy named Andrew Margot Marlowe really appreciate it mate when you were running a drama channel in any genre the hate you are receiving is not necessarily hate the minority is just senseless bias hate but the majority is people of sound mind trying to tell you that what you are doing is wrong some very so just pause this very interesting comment from Joe vegan I do not know if he feels that I'm in that category of people of sound mind trying to tell him that what he was doing is wrong but that's how I'd consider myself and I didn't generalize um I I don't think everything he did is wrong I gave him a very balanced and I wrote him a lot of positive things to which he completely ignored in his responses that might be the kind of guy he is also some people are like that you know some people if you write them a letter and it has five points of criticism and five points of praise they only hear the criticism but I was quite balanced but I did point out honestly what things he was doing that were wrong um and I also praised him for the things I thought he was doing right or that I thought he excelled at I did do both so I continued reading Joe's comment about himself leaching off other people's content and criticizing people as if you are some sort of authority figure is a horrible thing to do period yeah okay pause e and that's an interesting comment from Joe there are two halves to that I think the leaching aspect is maybe one of the more interesting that people don't seem to reflect on a talked about as much it is weird to me that so many of the channels that say they hate me actually our derivative of me like their videos they rely on people like me to create real content and then they leach off my content they produce something derivative there a secondary source and I'm a primary source that is a very strange dynamic he says and if we're being totally honest I got carried away with the subs and views failing to realize that I was being just as bad as the narcissistic sociopath pathological lying criminals who do the same things period so you see how he got a subtle insult where this is subtle if you wanted you might not catch it but he had an insult directed towards his competitors here on YouTube very subtly worked into that sentence um but the first half the sense is that he got carried away with the subs in the views and I agree that was part of my analysis of what his problem was and I said that to him publicly as well as you privately and not in a stupid Hershell away I thought he really didn't understand how pandering to your audience is a problem and how it perverts your whole mission of what you're doing here on on YouTube whether you think of that in terms of vegan activism or just in terms of entertainment because even as an entertainer there are really hard questions of the ethics of being an entertainer of your creative process and whether you how you engage your audience how you confront your audience's expectations how you subvert their expectations how you play with what the audience is expecting you to do then you don't just pander to your audience you don't just do whatever it takes to get more views and more subs and in his case from the one example just to keep it simple I do not think Joe vegans should have pretended that he didn't know the reality of my legal case at a time when he did and that was something it's just a very simple example of pandered audiences his explanation was that's what his audience wanted here that was funnier that was more entertaining and I don't think he should have pretended that someone like Joe passed Joe best is a different youtuber who's also vegan or Semmy vegan or plant-based you know he shouldn't have pretended that someone like that was a credible source when he wasn't Joe vegan knew very well the type of lies that in the past the other Joe Joe best had had published because Joe had even Joe had even lied about Joe Joe best had put up lies and defamation against Joe vegan in the past which Jovian was sensitive I pointed out those things in my critiques of cheetah which cheetah couldn't handle at all but back in the day I was pointing out two cheetah that one of his most important failings was that he was treating unreliable sources as if they were reliable just to make a story more dramatic or just to make it more entertaining or just a pander to his audience and again the ethics of entertainment are here as much as the ethics of journalism or the ethics of politics or what have you even if you're thinking about this just in terms of fiction or entertainment or what-have-you I mean because Joe vegan did both he was doing kind of a news reporting role as well as a satirist role you got to think about these things got to take him seriously but anyway I'm gonna build something amazing in the real world cheers bud it's how Joe vegan closes that maybe maybe you are Joe but you know one of the really productive things I wanted to do with you was engage you in a discussion about the practicalities of how you were gonna operate your you know animal sanctuary I want to talk about the economics as well as the ethics with you and I wanted to have you on my channel do that to promote you to my small audience but my my audience is quite serious they really care about that stuff they really interested Europe that conversation would have reached a few thousand of really the right people and I don't know Joe I I do not have any faith whatsoever that you're gonna own and operate an animal sanctuary and I don't have the impression all that you've even thought through let alone done a feasibility study and really sketched out and dealt with the complexities and difficulties you've been faced you'd be facing and doing that and I think even if you get starred in that and I say this with all due sympathy I think you're gonna face a fork in the road at one point where you have to choose between doing what's right for your wife and child and doing what's right for that dream you had of running an animal sanctuary in Portugal well it's a dream but I think when you have to choose between devoting your time and effort to your wife and kid and devoting your time and effort to that dream a wife and kid are gonna take priority every time and believe me I can sympathize believe me I can relate because those the conversations I have to make too and that's one of the reasons why I'm currently living in China and learning Chinese and I'm not living in Saskatchewan working on Korea in a cheap way I'm not working in other things that might matter to me more that might contribute to my own career more as well as my own personal interests because I still have obligations to my ex-wife and to my daughter growing up in Europe so whatever man my heart goes out to you Jo but your exit from YouTube the one thing I can say is I hope this isn't another fake retirement because we've had a lot of that lately we've had hennya and many others saying dramatically that they were gonna leave YouTube hennya said that she felt her life was in danger here on YouTube you know we have no special effects we have no plot with no drama the only thing the only currency we've got is our honesty so let's keep it real you know if you're gonna quit YouTube okay I sympathize it's a real story you know you seem to be sharing real emotions but now you got to actually follow through you got to actually do it you got to quit YouTube I'd say the same to any or anyone else you know although I mean you know otherwise we get into again these kind of really phony dramatic things that ultimately just drag the name of veganism through the mud and make this whole medium into a joke I myself you know mentioned all the time I don't have a lot to give but what I do have to give is to you know come on YouTube and share some of my real-life experience some of my perspectives and my opinions with a small number of people want to hear it and that's the realest thing in the game I'd be happy still to this day to have you on my channel to talk about running that animal sanctuary talk about your dreams under that heading as I said recently I still got love for you but um I think you just figured out you know a few months too late what I figured out a few months ago what I was really trying to constructively discuss with you and tell you about what you were doing wrong including you know how it was harming me how it how it hurt me I had the honesty to do that with you and when it mattered you simply didn't want to hear it because you get views you get money on YouTube the first time for someone like me on YouTube now get subscribers get log but isn't in alignment with who I am I'm gonna take some time because I think our community has been destroyed it isn't right you I think of some way to get in after all [Music]