A Diet is Not a Movement. A Protest is Not a Community.

as you've probably surmised by now I had
an extreme emotional reaction to this you don't even have to know an ex Wiegand personally to experience this I think but generally speaking I feel like a vegans feel very betrayed when they hear about ex vegans right it's stupid it's not like he made this post to betray me or my fellow vegans right like it wasn't about that I don't think but you feel that you even if you have that camaraderie with your fellow vegans you know you can meet someone and have absolutely nothing in common but you have this in common this this this that matters so much more than any other trivialities you know at least you have this in common something I've said to many of my fellow vegans normally by Skype sometimes face-to-face I've said to them openly and directly look if you stop being an activist or if you never become an activist I still want to be your friend so that many many times and some people get it and some people don't and some people take a minute and then they really understand what I'm saying and why I'm saying I said to one guy look I don't know what your next job is gonna be he was at I'm really a very active vegan activist I said you know you could get a job on a cruise ship you could join the army you could just get up you could get a job as a real estate broker you could just get a busy job but vegan activism might disappear from your life I still want to know you I still want stay in touch I still want to be a friend in contrast to some other vegans like - right - never I do not see activism as the moral baseline I do not see my activism is something everyone is obliged to do I definitely do not see activism something everyone can do my current circumstance is living in a school in China aside from making snarky remarks to the other students at this school there is absolutely no no activism in my life know what direct hands-on icism well I'm well I'm living chat none and again if you get a job on a cruise ship unless you want to make snarky remarks while you're swabbing the decks or washing dishes your your there is no activism in your life in that kind of job either any of you guys who have a job on a cruise ship we're managing to watch this video but feel free to write in and send me some eat me I'd love to hear cut rate um but what if they stopped being vegan what if it wasn't that they stopped being a vegan activist what if it was that they voluntarily you know not being forced not being in the army not being trapped on a desert island what if those people actually went back to eating meat wearing leather drinking cow milk as as friendly as the gesture is to say look I still want to know you even if you have nothing to do with began activism in the future for whatever reason do I still want to know them if they stopped being vegan probably not probably not I can think of extraordinary circumstances extraordinary reasons why people would go back to eating meat and I can think of extraordinary people where the person is so extraordinary that you still want to know them differently even though they're going back to you mean but if we're really being honest about the ex vegan thing I probably don't want to be a friend anymore I don't I don't think that reflects well on me I don't I say all the time of the channel I'm not a nice guy you know and these feelings I think reflect an interesting fissure in how we think about veganism how we think about this in veganism politically and intellectually and emotionally because on the one hand veganism is a diet and we think about it as a diet and the other hand we think about veganism is a social movement even if it is not a social movement in our lives okay now what do I mean by that you may be watching this in Berlin you may be watching this in London England you maybe part of a real social movement connected to veganism you may be but the vast majority of people watching my channel are not the vast majority people watching this what one of the reasons why there's so much dynamism so much energy on YouTube and digital veganism on the Internet is that so many vegans live alone that they're struggling against loneliness and isolation they're not a member of any kind of movement any kind of vegan organization they may not have a single vegan friend or in their City they may have one or two vegan friends they struggle to get along with they may feel deeply alienated from their own families you know going to Thanksgiving going to any holiday Christmas festival you know to be with people who drink alcohol and eat meats and where that's the whole focus of their lives you know if the non vegans lives around them obviously you know alienation from your co-workers here I'm it's a very real barrier between me and the other students at the school the fact that I'm vegan and they're not and it comes up not every day but if you know the reality of that be a separate video if I start telling funny stories about that the idea that veganism is a movement is misleading it has the potential to be a movement as the potential will be many movements all around the world and you may be one of the lucky people in Berlin or London or what-have-you you may be part of a dynamic movement that makes your life more meaningful more rewarding and you're you you may be part of a highly organized vegan group but if so recognize you're in a tiny minority and one of the reason why there's so many of us on the internet trying to get connected trying to meet one another I try to encourage that through my patreon group is for people to get usefully make friends get organized figure out how we can work together even if it's on a small project like making an illustrated children's book I'm still into that by the way we got I think we've got like five graphic designers in my patreon groups like five of my patreon supporters are graphic designers you know so there's still this possibility of making and publishing a children's book about veganism as I've said before activism can mean different things to different people it's not necessarily standing on the street and screaming all kinds of productive ways to use your time try to make the world a better place but thinking about veganism as a movement even if you are not in any way in contact with a movement even if you're alone or you just you just eat a vegan diet and are in no way politically active thinking about it as a movement tends toward exclusivity which is fine I'm here to be honest about that I'm not here to say exclusivity is a bad thing thinking about veganism as a diet tends toward a kind of world embracing inclusivity and I have talked about that at length on this channel if you're new you haven't seen those videos that's a while back I said many times on this channel if veganism is for everyone then it's not just for people you like it's not just for people you agree with it's not just for people to share your political values right if you're left-wing how do you feel when you meet a vegan who votes for Donald Trump how do you meet vegans who are right-wing how do you if you're an atheist I'm a nihilistic atheist can you really cooperate with a vegan who was born and raised Hindu can you really cooperate with a vegan who was born and raised Christian warm and Jewish yeah and I've seen that I mean you know most people in my life are left-wing because I spend all this time on universities you know the the range of political views among my professors goes from left-wing to communist myself what's nobody in the Middle definitely nobody conservative or what-have-you um within the vegan demi-monde it's quite possible that the only people you're dealing with are far left wingers or are hippies or what-have-you and my political realism in most countries I'm somewhere near the center depends depends what political spectrum we're talking about I'm a kind of pragmatist who's often in the middle of the political spectrum but do you have it in your heart to really reach out to and cooperate with someone who is for example a conservative Christian now I keep saying I'm not a nice guy but I can tell you that I do and I've had some odd moments though the vegans where I mentioned you know another vegan I've been talking to we're trying to work with and they go oh yeah she's Christian and you can feel the the chill helpful I'm overtly a nihilistic atheist anyone who's Christian who has the fortitude to watch this channel and put up with my with my openly atheist musings I appreciate that you got it in your heart to come here and find common ground with me and I've got it in my heart to find common ground with you but if veganism is for everyone and as a diet we believe it is for everyone if you believe it is for everyone then that really has profound implications intellectually emotionally and politically for embracing others inviting others in etc but that is - veganism thought of as a diet as a movement as a community in terms of actually having an organization then you get into these much more difficult questions of exclusivity right um it's really interesting to me how many people completely misinterpreted what I thought was so clearly stated in my video that's titled in English on community that videos been translated into Spanish and German into Finnish not yet Swedish Chinese the title is slightly different but the the video on community people written to me saying oh well you know if you support the idea of a vegan community that means you support the idea of inviting everyone of including everyone of embracing everyone and I've had to write back to people saying no it doesn't community is exclusive not inclusive and every single example I give in that video is exclusive communities do confer benefits they pool their resources and that video talks with that a lot they work together towards common goals but they are not all inclusive not at all and none of those examples are inclusive how inclusive is the gay community that video more than 10 times mentions that he talks a lot probably talks about the gay community more than any other example as a significant precedent that vegans need to learn from need to learn from the six s of the gay rights movement movement and organized gay communities in places like Toronto in the Western world we're not talking about Saudi Arabia as that video mentions also do you think the gay community includes everyone I don't think it includes me look I'm a completely heterosexual man furthermore I've praised you know the gay rights movement in its capacity to you know cooperate to be effective but at the same time to recognize its own fractious and fragmentary nature right gay groups tend not to get along that well with lesbian groups with bisexual groups with various specialized transgender groups you know anywhere Toronto would have you look at the actual structure of an LGBT movement it's not one movement it's a whole bunch of separate movements that video mentions of other videos mentioned so they really have the capacity to cater to different specialized interests just different forms of socialization you know the people want to have separate club nights people want to have separate social events but they also want to have separate legal representation they want to have separate voices in the movement and wonderful it's great and it recognizes again that's true diversity within what we can call as one category gay rights right now if you're in a very small town of course you don't have that luxury I think you know if you go to Alburquerque you know laughs remember being in Albuquerque I remember going to the only gay club in Albuquerque at the time maybe I'm maybe I'm exact maybe the others are secret members one one gay nightclub in Albuquerque so you know the gays and lesbians and all the different categories of trips they all had to get along at the save the same gay clubs you know good way Toronto is not Albuquerque yeah obviously there are towns up there smaller than Albuquerque too so this is this is out of date probably today probably Albuquerque has ten ten gay clubs today whatever but you know fundamentally I you know I remember I went to a Jewish communities at once in in Victoria BC I went once and it did freak me out there were some people there at this event were not Jewish and who had no connection Judaism and no interest and you know the question is why are you here you know the same would be true Toronto had a huge you know well-organized Jamaican community we had different community groups for each of the islands you know Jamaicans have a separate organization from Haitians Haitians have several ization from Dominican Dominican Republic you know and they do cooperate I mean like but just really describe loosely with gay community you know the fact that your cooperation doesn't mean you don't have separate representation and separate genuinely exclusive community groups this community but get a say just briefly it would be weird if I just showed up and tried to hang out at a Jamaican event I was no reason for me to be there's no connection between me and Jermaine community if I'm married to a Jamaican woman that's different if I've been studying the history and politics of Jamaica at university that's different if I just got back from Jamaica if I you know I'm a white person but I've been living in Jamaica and involved in Jamaican political issues or Jamaican culture if anything if there's some meaningful connection then maybe I can show up at a Jamaican community event and maybe they'll accept me and maybe maybe we'll build bridges maybe maybe they'll reject me maybe they don't want me there right but all community is exclusive there's always exclusivity there's always a question of whether or not you're admitted and it's cut the other example using video Judaism Mormonism they're all exclusive they're not it's not like the idea of the diet where it's for everyone and on some level everyone's welcome and the challenge to you is can you really be welcoming and accepting enough if you believe that veganism is for everybody beyond that so already community is exclusive when we move from community to effective activism to actual organizations those are way more exclusive because now we really require you to be a highly effective person right so I mean you have you know we're thinking back over the last 50 years gay communities which again as I've said they include things like nightclubs and restaurants but they also clewd legal funds and lawyers offices what-have-you active gay rights activists this is a much smaller number of people within that community concept extremely exclusive not just anyone can join not just anyone can participate and Kent the idea of the street protest it's a very misleading paradigm the people who are really doing the work who are really putting the in the hours ultimately people are making financial commitments or financial sacrifices to work long hours over many years in gay rights as a movement this is a much more narrow category of people now again like in Toronto talk about the Caribbean community within that you have specific organizations Jamaicans Haitians Dominicans etc um you know anyway goes on and on uh and they do sometimes organize big events that are for all Caribbeans uh but someone who's a dedicated organizer not even their full-time job but they're part-time job someone who's really putting in the time who do they work with do they work with anyone and everyone do they have open meetings where anyone can show up like a street protest or like a street festival or street party no they have to cultivate friendships with colleagues who can really get the work done with them right community is exclusive friendship is unequal you may have some friends who are gambling addicts you may have some friends who are drug addicts you may have some friends who are diagnosed with bipolar disorder diagnosed diagnosed schizophrenic but you know you may have a friend who's diagnosed with manic depression what-have-you you may have a friend where you like them or you love them you appreciate some things about them but you know they have some mental problems you know they have some limits for what they can do you have a friend you like them they're just disorganized they can't show up on time they can't get worked and they can't be relied on okay a friend or a colleague who you actually rely on to be part of the organized political moving with you where you say this is someone I trust enough to sign checks on the same bank account this is someone who is part of the same political movement in that strict sense of the term not a bunch of people on Facebook giving each other the thumbs up where you really work together and again ultimately there's a financial sacrifice involved even if it's just time it's time you're taking where you're not at work you're not with your family you're not dating you're not skiing you're not living so you're devoting time to a real political movement again whether that's gay rights or you know Caribbean community activism or veganism it's very exclusive it's very demanding right this comes back to this contrast I'm alluding to uh the feeling of sorrow at losing a fellow vegan under that heading of veganism diet and it's for everyone in contrast to when you're really trying to get stuff done when you're really thinking about veganism as a movement whether or not you really have contact with just conceptualizing it as a movement may have no contact with a real with a real movin with real political organization and then someone showed themselves to be a flake someone shows themselves to lack the discipline necessary to be a vegan and you think good one less flake for me to deal with one less flake wasting my time poison leaving the body weakness leaving the organization I don't need you I need to work with people who can show up at I'm organized lunch I need to work with people who are rewarding my level of commitment with their own high level of commitment high level of confidence I need to work with people who don't just have the self-discipline necessarily a vegan diet but who over the next five years over the next 15 years are really gonna make something positive happen so again veganism as a diet it's kind of global all encompassing all embracing all accepting focus that brings with it a kind of strange emotional undertow of feeling so sad when people leave it when people fail at it when people go back to eating meat for whatever reason you this in common this this this that matters so much more than any other trivialities you know at least you have this in common so you know when they rejects five that core belief that you have in common it does feel like betrayal you know there's so few of you guns as it is and then there's a much more exclusive concept of community all community involves exclusivity the Jewish community is not all-inclusive we're all embracing either you're Jewish or you're not the Jamaican community is not inclusive in all your breaking either your Jamaican or your not and again maybe your Caribbean but you're not Jamaican maybe you can participate to some extent without being Jamaican maybe there's some role for you but maybe not maybe there can exclude you maybe they're gonna tell you you're not welcome at the party because you're not Jamaican this is the reality of the exclusivity of community right and again gay rights you know gay community I'm not gay I'm probably welcome in some places and not others there's some events and not others ultimately the gay community is exclusive and part of the strength of the gay community is in recognizing how fractious and fragmentary it is that gays and lesbians cooperate to some extent and in other other events are you know mutually exclusive all the little categories for different forms of transgendered people different rights movements different professional organizations just the gay Teachers Association the gay architects Association you know there can be really important political struggles linked to professions that way or linked to unions you know teachers union the Catholic teachers union what-have-you you know there can be all of these really specific struggles within that community right community is exclusive but guess what an actual movement when we're not talking about gay the gay community we're talking with a gay rights movement we're not saying about the vegan community no veganism is a diet vegan community and then an actual organized vegan political movement that's been things yet very exclusive you know he you know basically he his feelings we're that he found vegan I don't know whatever you want to call the vegan seen to be very judgmental which you know it makes sense and he felt ostracized by it and I can't really blame him you know and we do I mean like the clip I played at the beginning we do get our hearts broken we do get our feelings hurt interesting element of things many many ways I'm gonna close this video by saying something I've said before which is you know don't kid yourself your feelings matter too it's not just the feelings of meat-eaters that matter it's not just the feelings of your fellow vegans that matter if you're hurt if you're upset you can be honest about that with yourself you can be honest about that with others don't fall into the trap of a sort of phony asceticism of pretending that everyone else has feelings and everyone else's feelings matter and that yours don't when I was involved with First Nations First Nations politics First Nations is our term in Canada Americans say American Indians are indigenous people a lot of white people say things that really offend me about that in Canada that really hurt me that something that matters to me still could still happen today but I don't expect anyone in China if you're born and raised in China to be sensitive of those issues I don't expect them to be informed and expect them to care that's our political struggle if you're a white person born and raised in Canada it's our problem it's our poverty it's our genocide it's our failure yeah it's our question for the future and I think that all white people born and raised in Canada have a very real moral obligation to care about its care about First Nations it's not just people who are ethnically First Nations who care if you're a Pakistani immigrant to Canada and you choose to become a Canadian citizen then I think it's your problem too you're committed to it and you care but no here in China I'm not gonna lecture the Chinese about First Nations politics and I'm not gonna get upset if a Chinese person says something that's offensive or racist or you know doesn't care about the the history of colonialism Canada's ridiculous but it's very striking to me how often my fellow white people in Canada would just be astounded that someone would show real emotion openly about First Nations politics and that to me is the same question you know why would you think I would suffocate that why do you think I'm not entitled to my feelings on that and certainly you can be the opposite extreme I mean I think sometimes with racial politics get into the misery Olympics as I've said another video where it just becomes about an outpouring of emotion that's not what I'm endorsing here but what is the utility of pretending that you don't care what is the particulate ii-in pretending that your emotions are not part of your political commitment are not part of what motivates your intellectual life when so clearly they are one of the easiest things for vegans to say is I'm vegan because I care I pursue this political goal because this is what I care about that's one of the most natural and obvious things for any of us to say and obviously you know if you're in the tiny minority of white people who chose to get seriously involved in First Nations politics at some point you know there's a connection between feeling and knowing there there must be an emotional aspect to it and there is strength in self-discipline there's strength and having control of your emotions but the question is what do you do with that control the fact that you have control of your emotions doesn't mean that you should use that control exclusively to conceal or suffocate your emotions I think there really is value and sharing with others your feelings and why you feel the way you feel whether that's about veganism First Nations Politics the history of Cambodia or what have you I've said many times this channel I never wanted to reproduce the defects of an academic lecture but I can ask you what would be the point if I came on here and gave you a completely dry and factual lecture about the civil war in Cambodia history of Laos Southeast Asia or First Nations or veganism or any of these topics ultimately my engagement with my audience and my audience's ability to sympathize with me is probably gonna start with their having an understanding of why do I care in the first place only while you and then I said why do I care why did I as a white person who grew up in Canada become engaged with a question like history of Laos history of Cambodia a history of slavery whatever the topic is we're talking about it's very natural for that emotional engagement to provide a first step for intellectual engagement and political engagement and of course emotions get such a bad reputation because too often people only take the first step they only have the emotional reaction and they don't back it up with real intellectual rigor or real political commitment hit me up