Joe Vegan: Sincerity vs. Sensationalism, Activism vs. "Drama".

in English we have this idiom the last
straw we can say it in an even less vegan way by saying the straw that broke the camel's back I have to start this video with the disclaimer that the last straw is not a particularly heavy straw it's not a particularly bad straw it just happens to be the problem that happened last in a sequence of many difficulties Joe vegan is not a particularly bad or terrible youtuber if anything he's one of the best and you guys know I've supported him on this channel I supported him back with almost nobody knew about him I supported him an offer to do a podcast with him back when my audience was much larger than his and of course his audience has grown and grown since then another general disclaimer I want to stay here is something that controvert able snitch has stated I can provide a link to controvert oval snitch below this channel although I think everyone who watches my channel already knows about him maybe I'm wrong maybe for a couple of youths first time Carter prob snatch is an interesting guy he has very sincere emotional reactions to what's going on in vegan activism the digital vegan demi-monde and I think that's really worthwhile a lot of my content also is not intellectual or political but is emotional is addressed to the emotional reality of what we're doing the emotional consequence of what we're doing for the people involved the emotional struggle to be a vegan trying to make a difference the world lately this guy controvert herbal snatch a great screen name I'm not insulting him if I call him snitch he reflected on the extent to which being a sincere vegan has become something that other vegans ridicule and just recently it wasn't like that even one year ago that people would be ridiculed for saying that they're actually trying to make a positive difference that their ash trying to help the animals and guys like Joe vegan even if they have good intentions they really are part of that problem and I do think Joe vegan is is very different from someone like vegan cheetah I do think he's very different with someone like during writer I do think morally and ethically he has scruples that many other youtubers don't have and I think in many ways he wants to make a positive difference in the world he wants to open a an animal shelter and what have you but nevertheless um I I I myself have really witnessed the emotional and practical and political impact that the games he's playing have on me and have others again he's the last straw it's not that he's the worst straw but for me this was really the breaking point where I said okay I'm not cooperating at all anymore I'm not even gonna have the comments that you on my channel I'm gonna step back and really have to reconsider how I use YouTube as a broadcasting medium given that these are the games that you people play so enjoy vegans case it is significant to me that he continued laughing at me he continued ridiculing me and my sincerity and I do not mean when he's playing a fictional character I don't mean in a scripted sketch I mean in his live streams when he's speaking for himself when he's sitting is an opinion he continued to pretend that he had no way of contacting me or no way of knowing the facts for me and that he he really was uncertain whether or not my legal case in Thailand was valid or invalid whether it was a scam or not whether it was real or unreal and he ridiculed my sincerity for having sent him long emails with the fact so this is a guy who have tried to cooperate with someone who I'm looking to with the long-term future build bridges with build a basis for real activism for real political cooperation and when I hear him saying on the internet that he doesn't believe something in my story is legit or true yes in the past I have sent him long emails that shows my sincerity of wanting to address those facts and many of these questions are not questions you can write a short email about so to give you an answer one that people used to ask all the time and that I believe at some point Joe vegan asked and I sent him an email about one of the questions the past was why was I in Chiang Mai at that time at all chiang mai thailand why did i go to the city of thailand at that time at all now i can just send you a two-sentence email saying i was in chiang mai for totally legitimate reasons that have nothing to do with Vera murder I could just say that that would be a short email and I think nobody would believe it and well okay it's not that people wouldn't believe it people would ask for proof or people will raise an eyebrow said what does this really mean doesn't make sense doesn't really answer the question now by contrast the emails I've sent two people on that and many people have received with a different intro address to them the same email right say hi I'm going to answer your question and then I cut and paste a long answer I've got to get into why did I arrived at the time I arrived why did I leave when I left why did I sorry what were the actual things I had to get done in Chiang Mai what was I doing with my time in Chiang Mai before during and rider attacked me and created this conflict how short can that email be if I actually break down for you what was going on in my life why I did the things I did what was going on now on the other hand the people who have received a long email that naturally read it every single one of them none of them has ever written back to me asking for proof or saying that they don't believe me the details are though they're boring they really do provide an explanation they really make sense this is exactly why I had to go to Chiang Mai at that time or why I chose to rather than going to Vietnam or something well I don't speak the language I don't speak Vietnamese so you know yes in theory there were other options but you know like among the boring details there was that I needed to go to a hospital and get medical documents from that Hospital to give to the Chinese government for paperwork reasons I have never once had someone read my explanation of that that this is one of the main reasons why i was in chiang mai this song is going I've never once that someone read that explanation and write back to me saying well show me the paperwork I don't believe you never once because it's a very obviously honest forthcoming explanation that makes sense is it a long email yes but it's part of me actually being very sincere and forthcoming and ultimately I am doing it for the animals for the movement to make the world a better place if someone like Joe vegan really doesn't understand something like that I have some level of trust with him or some level respect from I'm going to be forth with that and in fact I have done that for many many channels and many many youtubers who I don't trust who I don't respect and you have seriously insulted me into family on YouTube again and again I've tried to build bridges and reach out to people have been just horrendously insulting into fam Atari towards me for the movement for the future of this thing we call begin yes for the animals yes for ecology to save the planet however you want to put it that's what's going on with me that's very sincere so if anyone in the world should not again it's not that Joe vegan is the worst in many ways he's the best I made such an effort with him to address his concerns and I was willing to share with him private information also not just stuff that's on youtube so about the court case in Thailand well ages ago a couple months ago I was forthcoming I reminded that if him now we have talked about this privately I said look I showed you screenshots of the contract with the lawyer I showed you screenshots concerning the bank transfers that's the money being sent to the lawyer from the charity company like don't act like i never showed you anything I and he didn't even ask me for that I was just forthcoming out of respect for him so I've put in a huge level of effort to communicate with him yes in writing long emails and showing that I was also only if he was interested he asked for it I was willing to show further evidence or private proof if if he was interested okay and he's coming on youtube and mocking me and ridiculing me and laughing at me I don't mean in sketches I mean in lives what he's speaking for himself when he's not playing a character when he's not acting at a role and he's mocking me specifically because I would send him these long emails that I would send him these explanations and he's still behaving as f1 there's something shady or mysterious or evasive about my conduct in this and to as if he doesn't have access to them as if he doesn't already know these things as facts as if he couldn't ask me or check with me if you want to know and those things are very fundamentally similar to other people on YouTube running drama channels or making the scene worse and worse the final outcome of this as controvert able sniff says it's making people defensive it's making people ashamed to be sincerely pursuing the goals of veganism and it actually [ __ ] up real world activism and organizing real events just a couple of months ago I had the optimism the reckless optimism to try to commit my time and money to organizing an event in Thailand where I would meet other vegan activists face-to-face including Joe vegan I wanted to invite him oh and I did I shared it with him at the planning stage who said look what do I know you have a baby on the way that time his wife still pregnant but you know what do you think about coming to Thailand or would you come to it if it was somewhere other than Thailand's at an early stage we didn't know where we would hold this you know can we organize an event where these people meet face to face etc etc today that would never happen just a couple of months later the level of optimism and love necessary to cooperate with a couple of other vegans online to accomplish a small project like that a small goal it's now unthinkable I'm not going to do it I'm never going to try again I'm never going to reach out to Joe vegan himself that way again I'm never ever reach out to vegan cheetah that way again I'm not going to do it um that's been destroyed now again Joe vegan as an example I he's not trying to do something destructive but I've really tried to explain to these are the destructive outcomes of what you're doing if you get on camera and laugh at me because when you asked a question that may be a valid question like why were you really in Chiang Mai at that time or is this legal case really happen if you ask that question I send you long emails i sent you haven't I show I'm willing I'm offering to talk to you by Skype or by email whatever you want I don't care by telephone doesn't matter I'm willing to talk to you and you ignore that and you go with the fiction that I'm somehow being evasive I'm somehow being dishonest or not forthcoming you depict me as if I'm the one lying to the public and you laugh about it you make a joke out of my sincerity of my sincere concern well I sincere concern that you've understood misunderstood what I'm doing and again my long-term interest northern things yes it really does destroy the level of optimism and trust necessary just to organize an event like that now I mentioned many people complain when I make this kind of video oh well why didn't you discuss it privately Joe and I have discussed this privately and it's a private conversation so I'm not going to quote anything he said or you know the nature if it is a private conversation and now I'm making a public statement about why comments are turned off on my channel basically and why I'm really changing the way i use youtube in the way i try to instigate a real world activism at one point in that conversation so I'm just going to quote what I said I'm not going to quote her you know represent anything that joe said but at one point in the conversation i used what i thought was a positive phrase I no Joe you know you should expect more you should expect people like me to do more and he kind of misunderstood what I was saying and then had to had to reiterate and say no no no he was kind of being he was just a little bit confused by said it was being a little bit overly humble because he was saying that you know I don't expect you to do that I don't expect you to make these efforts he doesn't immediately as you know you should expect more like expecting me to organize an event in Thailand where people wee face to face this is nothing we should have higher expectations should have higher hopes and aspirations to organize real-world events and nobody has these expectations people just expect each other to fling dirt and insults and defamation and laugh and try to make a few dollars out of it on YouTube incredible oh but you should expect more of me and like we should all expect more of each other as individuals and collectively and I use an example I've given many many examples of very modest forms of activism that I've tried to initiate here on YouTube right now I have written a children's book about veganism about the ethics of vida I've written a children's book in both Chinese and English I wrote in chinese I checked with my teacher got the Chinese Craig a translator Chinese I would love to find an illustrator and publish a children's book and I might have to do a Kickstarter I might have to do fundraising to get money for those Travie remodel of activism I use another example in that conversation with Joe where I said to him I went to various vegans with this idea of having five or ten vegan restaurant owners meet get together so you can call that a conference conference would be too fancy term but in different countries to get together to talk about why they open the vegan restaurant the first place and it's about the future both their own worries about the future running a vegan restaurant and positively what they can plan or pursue what outcomes they're looking for in the future the future of veganism from the perspective of even if it's just five vegan restaurant owners and for me that's especially interesting in a place like Taiwan get a translator have them meet in Chinese you know film it for YouTube but then you know you're gonna have to take segments and translate Chinese in English it would be especially interesting it frankly in a place like Sri Lanka but also in Israel if you could get together five or ten Israeli vegan restaurant you know Israeli people who became vegan and then decided they're so committed they're going to own and operate a vegan restaurant I think they'd be really people i have no idea i've never been to israel i have no connection israel i think would be really interesting to get their perspective on veganism in Israel or veganism in Taiwan or veganism in Sri Lanka to me that would be such an amazing project and it is activism but it's a very humble very down-to-earth form of activism and when I've talked to other vegans on YouTube with some of that booking 5 restaurant owners together from the same country I mean you know you could do it within Canada could be Taiwan could be Israel they act like this is an insurmountable impossible obstacle and a lot of these people do put in long hard hours into making youtube videos or doing the social media things that they do but something that modest getting an illustrator for a book getting a conference together in the past I talked about a conference of scientists you know involved with laboratory research and animals who are vegan or vegetarian ISM about the ethics of how animals are exploited in labs you know yes actually I'm encouraging people encouraging you watching this video security go vegan don't make excuses for how bad and counterproductive the scene is here on YouTube let's raise our expectations expect more in effect he should expect more of me he should expect me to be out there organizing events related to activism or just people meeting because it cannot just barely activism whether it's restaurant owners or youtubers or whatever to make something positive happen but what I'm trying to communicate to him is that what he's doing actually is destroying that potential like it's actually a problem for me in my real life right now and I have and like I say the basic optimism that was required to have what's not a very deep or difficult event of getting a bunch of begin youtubers to be face to face this December today that is completely unthinkable to me I wouldn't make that effort today I wouldn't even try or as I did try just a couple of months ago and I did try to involve someone like Joe vegan himself positively in that effort obviously he's got a newborn baby different people when I reached out to them some you know some were immediately eager and really wanted to do it like vegan last shadow to her like so many other people and other people are reasons why they wanted to keep their distance or didn't want to be so coming back to a controvert able snitch said in the first place we really have a problem with shaming people for their sincerity whether that is me sending long emails with explanations to someone like you know Joe vegan I shouldn't be made ashamed of that Joe vegan if you've said openly in your channel that you just don't know why I went to Chiang Mai or you just don't know if you can trust what I say about my legal gates and i write to you saying look if you have doubts I'm willing to respect your doubts I'm willing to send you real information in either case what I was doing there what you know my situation is metal or I'm being forthcoming and honest and then you are going to pretend that I'm not that I'm being somehow dishonest or evasive and you're going to laugh about it you're going to ridicule me again not in the scripted comedy in his live stream when he's really speaking for himself you know shame on you and you know think about what the rewards have been for my sincerity because that legal case it's not for me it's really not it doesn't benefit me it really is as I've said on this channel a million times it really is about the future of veganism it really is about violence and defamation and dignity about this movement trying to have a shred of dignity and a couple of months ago I felt like the main problem we had was a small number of people like durianrider taking the name and idea of veganism and dragging it through the mud and depriving it of its dignity and today I feel like a thousand people are doing that including Joe vegan and I know that Joe vegan has good intentions I think many of these people have good intentions whether it's to open an animal sanctuary or other kinds of save the planet real world activism but yes what Joe vegan is doing in general and even what he's done to me in the final analysis it does have some of the same negative consequences of what I've complained about with Harley in the past it is taking the name of veganism and dragging it through the mud and it does leave people like me in a very difficult position of saying how am I going to make something positive happen so this video has been long enough I so make a separate video about why comments are off and how now today in a slightly different way I am still going to try to reach out and cooperate with other vegans but I am changing the rules of the games that I play