Vegan Dad, Meat Eating Child. (Patreon Supporter's Question)
01 October 2016 [link youtube]
Youtube Automatic Transcription
emotional relationships with equals are
very different from any relationship between a superior and inferior any relationship with there's Authority involve where decisions are made by one person and the consequences are carried out by the other we very often spend our time and energy in our relationships with our equals boyfriend's girlfriend's husbands wives trying to get that other person to do the right thing for the right reason but the reality is whether it's in the workplace or in the military or even within your own family when you have relationships between unequals relationships of command relationships of authority then we really just need to focus on getting the person to do the right thing period and in a sense we show them some respect we cut them some slack or we just were less intrusive in their lives by allowing them to do the right thing for the wrong reasons to do the right thing because they're just following orders because you're the boss or what have you and vice versa is also true when you're in the position of the employee or the inferior you know what I am speaking of my own parents or something you just want to limit those negotiations to the matters of consequence and you have to resign yourself to the fact that your boss or your dad or whatever your commander your superior it's enough of a struggle for them to get them to recognize what a problem is whatever the problem is you're you're dealing with to get them to do the right thing to get them to change the orders or respond to whatever it is you're complaining about whatever it is you have to challenge them about and you really cannot let yourself slip into the psychology of whether or not they're doing the right thing for the right reasons I've got a letter here from a guy named John by default when i get messages i just use first names john has paid one dollar to join my patreon currently the only income I have in the world is these donations through patreon if I do get the job i just applied for just auditioned for I might say believe me my salary you're in China is still to be pitiably low 5,000 qui per month 5,000 Chinese renminbi per month you can figure that out this is probably under one thousand dollars a month in whatever dollar currency you're using Australian Canadian or American so 5,000 qui per month um very humanitarian sort of wage it makes me makes me feel like I'm making the world a better place don't you know we'll see we'll see I haven't got the job yet but interview went great it gets you guys are wondering um really really really and we went out for dinner you know whenever there with people's would hire me blah blah um alright this message from John uh was supporting me on patreon among other things he reflects on not going to read every word of this message is that his daughter is currently five and a half years old and he's a divorced parent so he doesn't control every meal that she eats sometimes she's with the moms and the dad they take turns from week to week etc etc and his relationship with the mother is good but she's not vegan and he's only recently become vegan and you know on some level he says he's tempted to even show his daughter you know slaughterhouse footage but he's decided not to do that he said it could be traumatic for her and could cause all kinds of drama what have you of course she's five and a half right it's very different from having a kid who's 13 or any other scenario you might want to think about and also this guy John he hasn't been vegan all his life so he's struggling with these things um so he says enter dad the new vegan i've been vegan for just over a year now for ethical reasons and want to change the planet but that's another story for another day his ex-wife he says feeds Erica a typical non vegan diet so he feeds his daughter and I'm vegan diet because of this he has chosen not to share his vegan diet choice is a hundred percent with his daughter so he is saying he hasn't really what his diet is to his daughter and he has not forced her to become vegan he says I do cook the odd vegan options for her and I most definitely and regularly talk with her about where meat comes from where dairy and eggs come from etc she seems a little curious about my veganism and almost proud sometimes she seems to like animals as most kids do I have told her that the animal products people eat come from animals that must die so that we can eat them etc etc he has explained to these animals she has explained to his daughter that the animals live fearful unhappy miserable lives he was on to say she seems to understand but it is abundantly clear to me that the concept of animals being really hurt so that we can have them as food is not real to her in any way yet I don't see any real emotional connection or interest in it she generally just follows her taste buds and the status quo so he then says I would love for her to become a vegan but in my own upbringing I had religion forced on me and I resent my parents for doing that so he finally says I do not want her to become a vegan because he forces it on her he wants her to truly get it to truly understand it and to become vegan wait he says he wants her to live that way on her own terms because she truly gets I want to do a whole series of videos talking about being middle-aged you know what that doesn't feel age mentality towards life I think one of the one of the many distinctive aspects of being middle-aged is that you recognize that some nobody cares what you want I really understand just how important this is to this guy emotionally and personally otherwise profoundly but nobody cares it doesn't matter what you want doesn't it it doesn't matter to this five and half year old girl doesn't matter your ex-wife and you're gonna have to live with that paradox told that you died it doesn't matter how important is to nobody cares and once you've gotten over the coldness of that I think the next thing you really have to face up to is that your relationship with your daughter is one of authority what you can ask of her is that she changes her behavior what you can ask if her is that she conforms to the rules you create you can have a child join with five natural you can have a child take off her shoes every time she enters the house some families do that some families don't even here in Asia that's not universal some families take off their shoes and some wear the shoes inside the house I've seen that here in China what have you it's not stereotypically agents take off the shoes when they have that was but it's just from one family the next different families have different strategies okay you cannot ask your children to appreciate your reasons why they're taking off their shoes you can't really get into the psychology of whether or not they're doing it for the right reasons whether or not they once they have their own home once they're independent from you whether or not they would force their children to take off their shoes with a not they would organize their own apartment house in the same way you can't get into it you can't I know you want to I know you deeply passionately profoundly want your daughter to share your values shared decision-making process sympathize with your reasons for being vegan and then develop her own reasons that are compatible with your reasons it's not going to happen relationships of authority relationships between unequals entail that you know you make decisions that have consequences the other person and very rarely is she going to make those of you at age five and a half where Matta don't when the kid gets to 16 things change and it's not really respect but it's just an awareness of the limits of what you can do and what you should do I think you can demand behaviors from your child I think you can set up limits to their behaviors to what's acceptable what's unacceptable because it's your home and you're providing for them etc etc but actually I do not think you should take the next step into trying to control their thoughts their emotions their motivations and a come back to the main example that John himself is using here so John says he resents the way in which religion was forced on him as Chuck maybe you would feel differently if you had grown up in a religion that was not based on belief it's not all them are you know Christianity very much is where your parents were not trying to control what you believed your motivations for doing things they were not trying to make you morally pure for they just said to you this is the tradition this is the ceremony this is how we do this dance this is that we sing this song and we expect you to participate in this tradition and there are both religions and non religious ceremonies that are like that where it's actually not about what the children believe it is purely about adherence to or conforming to some kind of ancient tradition try to keep the tradition alive in Western culture might be easier to imagine that if it was something like parents who were forcing their kids to practice how to play the piano they'd have to believe in anything they don't have to believe the piano is a wonderful art form then I believe anything particular with the parents just say look for us in this household we feel this is crucial to your education or to Western culture or something so you have to put in so many hours practice saying you have to perform these songs at this level now there could be a kind of cruelty to that too don't get me you know depending they're reasonable maybe they're unreasonable maybe it's maybe it's a you know maybe that's a happy part of some kids lives and I'm it's easy for me imagine how that might be miserable but taking the next step in to try to control the reasons why somebody does something I think is the wrong way to think about the problem and instead what you have to resign yourself to maybe now when the kids five and maybe even when the kid is 11 when the kid is 13 is that you know your role as a parent you don't relate to this kid as an equal ultimately you're you're setting conditions and you can explain those conditions you can reward the kids curiosity you can reward the kids compassion but what you absolutely cannot do is getting to negotiating you know their values their motivations and their beliefs that's the sense in which they have to remain free even though they're bound by our house rules
very different from any relationship between a superior and inferior any relationship with there's Authority involve where decisions are made by one person and the consequences are carried out by the other we very often spend our time and energy in our relationships with our equals boyfriend's girlfriend's husbands wives trying to get that other person to do the right thing for the right reason but the reality is whether it's in the workplace or in the military or even within your own family when you have relationships between unequals relationships of command relationships of authority then we really just need to focus on getting the person to do the right thing period and in a sense we show them some respect we cut them some slack or we just were less intrusive in their lives by allowing them to do the right thing for the wrong reasons to do the right thing because they're just following orders because you're the boss or what have you and vice versa is also true when you're in the position of the employee or the inferior you know what I am speaking of my own parents or something you just want to limit those negotiations to the matters of consequence and you have to resign yourself to the fact that your boss or your dad or whatever your commander your superior it's enough of a struggle for them to get them to recognize what a problem is whatever the problem is you're you're dealing with to get them to do the right thing to get them to change the orders or respond to whatever it is you're complaining about whatever it is you have to challenge them about and you really cannot let yourself slip into the psychology of whether or not they're doing the right thing for the right reasons I've got a letter here from a guy named John by default when i get messages i just use first names john has paid one dollar to join my patreon currently the only income I have in the world is these donations through patreon if I do get the job i just applied for just auditioned for I might say believe me my salary you're in China is still to be pitiably low 5,000 qui per month 5,000 Chinese renminbi per month you can figure that out this is probably under one thousand dollars a month in whatever dollar currency you're using Australian Canadian or American so 5,000 qui per month um very humanitarian sort of wage it makes me makes me feel like I'm making the world a better place don't you know we'll see we'll see I haven't got the job yet but interview went great it gets you guys are wondering um really really really and we went out for dinner you know whenever there with people's would hire me blah blah um alright this message from John uh was supporting me on patreon among other things he reflects on not going to read every word of this message is that his daughter is currently five and a half years old and he's a divorced parent so he doesn't control every meal that she eats sometimes she's with the moms and the dad they take turns from week to week etc etc and his relationship with the mother is good but she's not vegan and he's only recently become vegan and you know on some level he says he's tempted to even show his daughter you know slaughterhouse footage but he's decided not to do that he said it could be traumatic for her and could cause all kinds of drama what have you of course she's five and a half right it's very different from having a kid who's 13 or any other scenario you might want to think about and also this guy John he hasn't been vegan all his life so he's struggling with these things um so he says enter dad the new vegan i've been vegan for just over a year now for ethical reasons and want to change the planet but that's another story for another day his ex-wife he says feeds Erica a typical non vegan diet so he feeds his daughter and I'm vegan diet because of this he has chosen not to share his vegan diet choice is a hundred percent with his daughter so he is saying he hasn't really what his diet is to his daughter and he has not forced her to become vegan he says I do cook the odd vegan options for her and I most definitely and regularly talk with her about where meat comes from where dairy and eggs come from etc she seems a little curious about my veganism and almost proud sometimes she seems to like animals as most kids do I have told her that the animal products people eat come from animals that must die so that we can eat them etc etc he has explained to these animals she has explained to his daughter that the animals live fearful unhappy miserable lives he was on to say she seems to understand but it is abundantly clear to me that the concept of animals being really hurt so that we can have them as food is not real to her in any way yet I don't see any real emotional connection or interest in it she generally just follows her taste buds and the status quo so he then says I would love for her to become a vegan but in my own upbringing I had religion forced on me and I resent my parents for doing that so he finally says I do not want her to become a vegan because he forces it on her he wants her to truly get it to truly understand it and to become vegan wait he says he wants her to live that way on her own terms because she truly gets I want to do a whole series of videos talking about being middle-aged you know what that doesn't feel age mentality towards life I think one of the one of the many distinctive aspects of being middle-aged is that you recognize that some nobody cares what you want I really understand just how important this is to this guy emotionally and personally otherwise profoundly but nobody cares it doesn't matter what you want doesn't it it doesn't matter to this five and half year old girl doesn't matter your ex-wife and you're gonna have to live with that paradox told that you died it doesn't matter how important is to nobody cares and once you've gotten over the coldness of that I think the next thing you really have to face up to is that your relationship with your daughter is one of authority what you can ask of her is that she changes her behavior what you can ask if her is that she conforms to the rules you create you can have a child join with five natural you can have a child take off her shoes every time she enters the house some families do that some families don't even here in Asia that's not universal some families take off their shoes and some wear the shoes inside the house I've seen that here in China what have you it's not stereotypically agents take off the shoes when they have that was but it's just from one family the next different families have different strategies okay you cannot ask your children to appreciate your reasons why they're taking off their shoes you can't really get into the psychology of whether or not they're doing it for the right reasons whether or not they once they have their own home once they're independent from you whether or not they would force their children to take off their shoes with a not they would organize their own apartment house in the same way you can't get into it you can't I know you want to I know you deeply passionately profoundly want your daughter to share your values shared decision-making process sympathize with your reasons for being vegan and then develop her own reasons that are compatible with your reasons it's not going to happen relationships of authority relationships between unequals entail that you know you make decisions that have consequences the other person and very rarely is she going to make those of you at age five and a half where Matta don't when the kid gets to 16 things change and it's not really respect but it's just an awareness of the limits of what you can do and what you should do I think you can demand behaviors from your child I think you can set up limits to their behaviors to what's acceptable what's unacceptable because it's your home and you're providing for them etc etc but actually I do not think you should take the next step into trying to control their thoughts their emotions their motivations and a come back to the main example that John himself is using here so John says he resents the way in which religion was forced on him as Chuck maybe you would feel differently if you had grown up in a religion that was not based on belief it's not all them are you know Christianity very much is where your parents were not trying to control what you believed your motivations for doing things they were not trying to make you morally pure for they just said to you this is the tradition this is the ceremony this is how we do this dance this is that we sing this song and we expect you to participate in this tradition and there are both religions and non religious ceremonies that are like that where it's actually not about what the children believe it is purely about adherence to or conforming to some kind of ancient tradition try to keep the tradition alive in Western culture might be easier to imagine that if it was something like parents who were forcing their kids to practice how to play the piano they'd have to believe in anything they don't have to believe the piano is a wonderful art form then I believe anything particular with the parents just say look for us in this household we feel this is crucial to your education or to Western culture or something so you have to put in so many hours practice saying you have to perform these songs at this level now there could be a kind of cruelty to that too don't get me you know depending they're reasonable maybe they're unreasonable maybe it's maybe it's a you know maybe that's a happy part of some kids lives and I'm it's easy for me imagine how that might be miserable but taking the next step in to try to control the reasons why somebody does something I think is the wrong way to think about the problem and instead what you have to resign yourself to maybe now when the kids five and maybe even when the kid is 11 when the kid is 13 is that you know your role as a parent you don't relate to this kid as an equal ultimately you're you're setting conditions and you can explain those conditions you can reward the kids curiosity you can reward the kids compassion but what you absolutely cannot do is getting to negotiating you know their values their motivations and their beliefs that's the sense in which they have to remain free even though they're bound by our house rules