Vegan "Drama" is not Activism, It's Defamation, Ryan. (Happy Healthy Vegan, HHV)
18 January 2017 [link youtube]
We Don't Need Another Durianrider, we don't need another Vegan Cheetah --we don't need another 1000 people pretending to be these "micro-celebrities". Instead, we need 10,000 people who are prepared to get organized, and bring paperwork to parliament, to the school board and to city hall.
Youtube Automatic Transcription
I think the number one mistake people
make in interpreting so-called YouTube drama conflict debates discussions between youtubers is of assigning some other mode of some other agenda to the conversation outside of prior to unrelated to the conversation okay let me tell you my conversation with Ryan from happy healthy vegan was about exactly what you see up on the surface there was no hidden agenda there wasn't something else I was driving at there were some things I was trying to say that I didn't get to say because he cut me off or he kept changed the topic conversation or reacting the way that he did I find found Ryan's reactions a little bit disorienting Ryan is not the kind of person I normally have a conversation with very different for me talking to Ryan as opposed to talking to someone like mod vegan you know I find it you can listen to my hour-and-a-half podcast with mod vegan what we're doing a book review together and talking in a really intellectually rigorous way about vegan politics and activism etc I find it really easy to follow Margaret's train of thought in that podcast and by contrast like Ryan saying some stuff to me and I'm thinking what oh where are you going if you hear the whole thing you can see that there's some points or just like how the hell did it take off that direction so you know no shade but yeah I think one of the ways in which people just really misinterpret and missed the point of these things is they come to these discussions with some kind of agenda and say oh he's only confronting Ryan about this for some other reason they ascribe some other agenda a motive to it totally outside of what's in the video what's in the conversation and in this case let me tell you that is not true at all if there's one point one example I wish I could have gotten across to Ryan and I think he didn't get it I think he didn't understand and I tried to bring it up at a couple points and really wasn't hearing it it would be the example of Anna Scanlon now Anna Scanlon this one example for me has a lot of significance above and beyond the experience of this one woman on YouTube okay Anna Scanlon most of you will not have heard of her she was a normal person on YouTube what does that mean she was a vegan she talked about veganism she talked about vegan activism she talked about vegan political theory I remember she had a video talking about the politics of why veganism was so popular within Israel because as something she knew about talking about her own life experience but not only talking about beam ISM why do I say she's a normal person I mean she was not selling a diet book she was not selling you weight loss secrets she was not trying to get famous she was not singing and dancing there's nothing wrong with singing and dancing I just mean she was not an entertainer she was not trying to be the next freely she was not trying to be the next vegan gains she was just trying to come on internet as a vegan as a normal person and share her perspective share what she had to share and the truth is somebody like her has a lot to share she has a PhD in history she's much more of an intellectual than the average voice of veganism you see on YouTube when I looked at someone like Anna Scanlon I see somebody who has the real potential to contribute to veganism as a movement in the next five years okay I got love for vegan gains I got love for Richard I got respect for what he does and I can never do what he does I am NOT gonna put on a wig and sing a song I am NOT gonna put on a wig and put on a fake Scottish accent Richard vegan gains is an entertainer okay I can totally respect that but when I look at somebody like Anna Scanlon or somebody like Maude vegan I get excited for a different reason because if there's one thing I cannot imagine Richard doing its standing in front of Parliament's at a podium giving a deposition I can't see him playing an organizing role in a bureaucratically complex situation at City Hall at the Board of Education I can't see him playing that rule and that's fine Richard I got love for you I got respect for you but what he does is different what veganism needs is not another 1000 people trying to be the next vegan gains what we need are 10,000 people like Ana Scanlon getting organized at local Parliament at City Hall creating foundations and you know what when you create a foundation a guy like vegan gains can contribute by doing the fundraising by making an announcement on his YouTube channel the entertainer's the tiny minority of vegans who become these types of famous personalities they can totally play a positive role but somebody has got to do the work somebody has got to do the dismal hard work bureaucratically putting together a foundation lobbying government making that positive change and I've heard so many vegans complain the Humane Society is corrupt and evil pedda people the Ethical Treatment animals is corrupt and evil I feel you I really do stop complaining put them in your shadow make something better create an alternative don't chase replace over a year ago I did this and then just yesterday before making this video I did it again I went to the official Government of Canada listing of registered charities okay my passport is Canadian I'm Canadian citizen I went to the Canadian registered charities list and I searched for the word vegan in all of Canada we make so much noise on the Internet do you want to know how many charities come up when you search for the word vegan one and it's called the dun vegan Historical Society dun vegan is just a Scottish name D un if eg a it's a Scottish name that happens to contain the letters vegan there's not a single charity listed on there that has vegan in its name or vegan in its description there are there are some foundations in Canada that do some stuff related to veganism but the Green Party is not vegan humane society is not vegan if anything they're anti vegan serious I'm not going to get into it here but like the Green Party in Canada is Pro meat industry and pro dairy industry huge problems like that in ecology okay we need to get organized we need to make something positive happen and we need people like Anna Scanlon we really do Anna Scanlon is not wearing a bikini she's not selling a diet book she's not singing she's not dancing I look at someone like her with her PhD in history coming on the internet talking about her real life talking about things of intellectual substance this is what we need okay but the reality is Anna Scanlon had a horribly traumatic experience because of vegan cheetah Anna Scanlon is on the list of people who broke down crying who had all this terrible stress brought into her life who have deleted her YouTube channel who disappeared from the internet and I hope she hasn't disappeared from Megan activism like forever because vegan cheetah decided to defame her just to entertain his audience he made up a sordid stupid story about a fake sexual liaison he had with her on skype over the you know they've never met face to face he did it just for views he did it just for infamy he did it just to get people talking he did it just for people's attention okay now look I am not perfect and you heard me say in that conversation with Ryan whether you heard the eight-minute version or you heard the 60-minute version I said to Ryan repeatedly Ryan I have low standards I have low expectations I don't expect you to be perfect and I said the cheetah in the past I was so understanding where she died was so forgiving to him up to a point up to a point when he crossed the line into defamation I was understanding okay defamation for me is over the line being in bad taste making jokes in bad taste is not over the line even if you don't like it even in front of defensive okay I do not expect Ryan to be perfect and I know I'm not perfect I've had so many criticisms of this channel but there are valid criticisms okay when I have made videos in bad taste when I have made videos that offend people I would challenge you not just to criticize the one sentence that offends you but to consider the video as a whole the argument and the point I'm making a lotta you forget this cuz it's such a long time ago there was a time when people hated me hated me because I dared to mention that freely has fake breasts which is our simple way of saying in English breast augmentation surgery okay there are people who felt that was in bad taste that it was insulting and denigrating for me to say that okay I think that's a valid criticism but watch the video as a whole I did not make a video just insulting freely for no reason it's not a drama video it's a really meaningful video talking about political problems in veganism talking about pseudoscience and bad diet advice that video I don't I'm happy that what one day my daughter can watch it I am not ashamed of that video if you feel it's crossing a line for me to say in that video for a good reason you know what I think people are forgetting freelee the banana girl she's very skinny and she presents this image of femininity and being curvy and athletic but you know what she's not just lying to you about her diet advice back at that time she had never made these videos admitting but you know part of the thing part of the part of her fame part of her rise to fame as a beauty icon has to do with the fact that she has fake breasts and that does matter because freely was somebody who claims she would never eat a mango if it wasn't Organa she was somebody who believed so much in this ideology of nature and natural medicine and natural Heidi she said you should never use shampoo and you should never use soap and they mean so many crazy statements you should never use medicine because medicine is unnatural this is somebody took on an ultra ante scientific anti modern medicine perspective who preached so much on the basis of an ideology of what nature means and at the same time the reality is she has the ultimate unnatural medical procedure she had surgery to have fake press it matters it's not meaningless what I do is not just gossip even if you take that out of context and say this is so immoral and so wrong for you to say that freely as fake press but I understand I'm not perfect okay if you're so offended by the fact that I mentioned freely has fake breasts you can't hear the rest of the message I understand Ryan from happy healthy vegan you have taken on the role of policing other people's YouTube content I don't know why you felt I was crossing a line in making a video in which I said in passing Nina and Randa are not that attractive if Nina and Randa go to an audition in Los Angeles the other girls at that audition the other young women at that audition for that same part Nina and Aranda are not going to look outstanding Lee beautiful compared to the other girls that dition in LA okay if you feel that's over the line I understand but guess what that video as a whole watch the first seven minutes of that video it's not about whether or not Nina and Randa are attractive it's not a hot or not video and hundreds of people have made those videos there are hundreds people mean hot hot or not videos top ten lists sexiest begins all that crap exists on the internet that's a video with a really sincere really important message that I still stand by and that I've defended against criticism repeatedly and said no this video is making a really Gordon point about the role of leadership about major issues and important questions and veganism and that video is in large part inspired by the fact that I've been reading the academic literature the debates going on within veganism and animal rights and I was amazed at the low intellectual caliber of what was being published by people with PhDs I'm amazed at the low intellectual caliber of what's said by major leaders like Gary Yourofsky Gary France Ian a you know that video there's such a long list of names it's not just a budding writer there's more than 20 names of important vegans criticised okay if any of these things were true a vegan cheetah it would be different if vegan cheetah had made an insulting comment about Anna Scanlon in passing in the context of a video that was sincerely trying to support a better future for the vegan movement the way that video my video that mentions meaning right the way that was if there was any validity if there was any good intention behind what cheetah was doing here it would be different okay if Anna Scanlon had quit YouTube over a controversy in which cheetah had criticized her about the actual contents of her videos of politically or in terms of animal rights ethics any of these controversial issues whether it's vivisection or pet ownership or domestication or there's so many real and important debates that would be different okay that's not the situation we're in Ryan the situation we are in is that cheetah is defaming people just for the sake of the defamation itself he's really harming people with real malice and it really damages the movement and if Anna Scanlon was the only one if she was the only example this would still be of tremendous significance because for every one person like Anna Scanlon who has the courage to come here on the Internet I know there are 10,000 who say to me who sent me email saying they would never open a YouTube channel because they are afraid they are living in fear of the consequences not the consequences from the meat industry not the consequences from bacon eating trolls the consequences from other vegans the sheer malice and shallowness and pettiness and gossip mongering the defamation and threats of violence from people like durianrider and people like vegan cheetah the hostility and danger created within the vegan movement it's created by other vegans and it's created for no legitimate reason it's not because they wanted to be vivisection it's not because they want to debate abolition versus meatless Mondays okay look there are so many legitimate debates Anna Scanlon is an important example in herself but she represents thousands out there who are voiceless and who are gonna remain voiceless and those people do send me email I get emails from people all the time telling me that I'm so brave because I put up with this I endure the defamation I keep coming back even though I've suffered so much just for speaking publicly about veganism and I've suffered so much at the hands of my fellow vegans I get those emails I get emails from people who are my viewers and they say I'd love to do what you're doing you're so brave but I'm a school teacher I work in the school system but I'm an architect but I have some respectable job so I can't risk it what are they talking about we're seeing they can't risk that what's happened to me threats of violence defamation accusations lies that they can't risk if that will happen to them they can't risk that what happened to Anna Scanlon vegan cheetah inventing a story like this they can't risk that it'll happen to them Ryan I appreciate your sincerity I don't think you were phony with me at all but I think you really don't get it I think you are only thinking short-term about the next video you upload and you're not thinking about the future of the movement I think you were completely sincere in making a decision in isolation to make a video asking me to apologize Nina Randa I don't think you had any bad motives I I I really disliked the video you made because I think you misrepresent what I said and why I said it it is damaging to me I don't like that but hey okay and Ryan at some point short-term thinking starts to resemble evil for the record Ryan I really tried to start in a positive footing with you I started I started by talking about the weather and then I started talking about Buddhism I started talking about the fact that I have a background that you know nothing about because you don't watch my channel I have a background as a real scholar of Buddhism I actually learned to read pally the ancient language in which the Buddhist Canon is preserved the original writings that form Buddhist philosophy in ancient India before Buddhism was exported to Tibet and Japan and China I thought I could try to build with you on the common ground that we have okay I did repeatedly also apart from starting in that positive manner I repeatedly said to you I don't expect you to be perfect I don't expect you to solve my problems don't expect you to fight my battles for me I made so many excuses for you in that conversation really offering you kind of peace offering you're setting up common ground trying to build in something positive and Ryan I don't think you're cynical I don't think you have any bad motives but looking back on that conversation if I ask why did you fail to respond positively why did you fail to build on that common ground I think it's the same answer as why you have failed to recognize why the damage done by durianrider is so serious why the damage done by cheetah is so serious and why it's necessary for people of principle to stand up and draw a line and say no more say I think the reason why you didn't build in that common ground is because you're not thinking about even the next five years you're not thinking about what you can do that's positive for the vegan movement and you're not thinking about the danger of what these other people are doing that's negative for the moment the profound influence somebody like durianrider who made threats of violence against people before he made threats against me who defame people before he made threats against me and you you Ryan you never had a problem with it you kept promoting durianrider on your channel and vice versa hoping during Ryder promote you you were just chasing your a little bit of YouTube fame you're a little bit of YouTube income you didn't give a you never took a stand when one scandal after another was created by durianrider and now you've never taken a stand when one scandal after another is created by cheetah the ultimate outcome of this constant internecine mean-spirited scandal mongering the defamation the threats of violence the outcome is that the only people who can use YouTube to talk about veganism or people like durianrider are people who aren't damaged emotionally or professionally like in terms of their work life by accusations of being a pedophile on the Internet ok durianrider made false allegations against me that i was a pedophile and as you know cheetah at one point made false allegations against durianrider claiming that durianrider is a pedophile and durianrider nevertheless turned around and made friends with cheetah and cooperated with cheetah okay people like durianrider are in the tiny minority who will still come on the internet and play this game when those are the rules of the game was played by people like Ana Scanlon are not we're losing the people who can make a positive difference all right that ultimately is the price we're paying because of people like you Ryan and people like durianrider and people like cheetah and you know at bottom when you put aside the more salacious aspects that when you put aside the fact that durianrider threatened to kick my ass he threatened to beat me up and pull me into a police station we set aside the fact that I am still in you know divorce hearings negotiations for custody of my own daughter and the damage that could be done to my life by this kind of a legate you know we put aside all of the more dramatic elements what really is at the basis of durianrider shaming and denigrating people this way what really is the basis of chichi de shaming and denigrating people it's way you know like the basic thing that both of them have tried to slander me with is the idea that I'm a I'm a vegan who's sleeping around now in my case that's not true that hasn't been true there are vegans in Chiangmai who are sleeping around okay and I don't think any of them deserve this treatment you know I have videos criticizing Ted car Ted car he talks about his lifestyle I would never a shame Ted Carr for the fact that he pretty openly says he's going to Chiangmai meeting vegan women he's doesn't believe in commitment he has open relationships he pretty much spells it out for you that he's there sleeping around there's a couple I'm sorry I forget their names there's a husband and wife couple or boyfriend/girlfriend couple in Chiangmai two white people and they are a big force they're organizers behind the Winter Taif root festival they have an open relationship they have a ton of videos talking about their sex lives they sleep around okay how how can it possibly be except let me look when I look at people like that when I look at people I take are the fundamental reason why I don't take them seriously is that I can't imagine them making a positive commitment to the vegan movement in the next five years I can't imagine them getting organized at City Hall and Parliament or any of those things said before but even so I don't wish that on Ted car I don't wish that any of those people none of these people deserve to be dragged out and slandered and humiliated for their sex lives just because they dare to talk about veganism on the internet like they're not even vegan activists they're just people who talk about vegan activism they're not even people who are saving the planet that just people come out and talk about their aspiration to save the planet to have this positive impact to make this contribution there's this this terrible risk there are these terrible consequences added on to just being vegan on YouTube because people like durianrider and people like cheetah try to earn their living by humiliating you by dragging your private life out into the public it's shameful it's really shameful Ryan and I don't know why it is you sleepwalk through life and you can't look in the mirror and see what's shameful about the role you've played in it and I know hundreds of people writing to you when the controversy between me and durianrider happened and explaining to you just how shameful it was for you okay you chose to play this role policing the vegan demi-monde here on YouTube you choose to make videos demanding that people apologize for things they say even when the things that really if you look back at it Ryan are really trivial like my comment about Nina and Randa in the context of that video a video that has a point a video that's not just shaming and humiliating someone okay you've chosen to take on that role Ryan and you can change you can say you're not gonna define you can play about whatever rules you want to play by okay actions have consequences Ryan and the people you associate with the people you're promoting like durianrider and like cheetah when they do immoral acts that really have consequences on individual people's lives that hurt me that hurt Anna Scanlon that hurt so many other people you've got to reflect on that and you got to reflect on the fact that long term they're hurting the vegan movement itself I'm gonna read you one email I got so that it's not just me I'm not gonna use your real name I'm just gonna say her name is Amy it's not a real name I'm gonna read this real quickly Ryan it's not just me I got this email from someone who's one of your viewers one of your regular viewers Ryan happy healthy vegan she writes aisel I want just want to take a moment to commend you on taking a moral stance of principled on your stream with happy healthy vegan I myself am a vegan who has watched vegan content on YouTube for a few years now and never have I seen such deliberate slander and toxicity than I have from cheetah it is absolutely disgusting to me and to be frank blows my mind how people still endorse and support this man after the horrid things he said and done the allegations of calling you a fraud and a wife-beater he's called me a fraud and a wife-beater the way he mocked tofu Tommy's eating disorder by pretending to cry and vomit in a bucket on you now reducing Tommy to tears and suicidal thoughts the way he mocked vegan lasses appearance calling her an alien the way he made fun of Joe vegan calling him but calling him a joke for raising a baby on a supermarket cashier salary on tumblr the way he humiliated Anna Scanlon and brought her to tears the way he told a viewer to go to go take care of his child how on earth can these people especially ethical vegans support such horrid and disgusting behavior like this so when I saw the broadcast you were on with Ryan it was such a relief to see a vegan content vegan content creator call out one of their peers for giving such a malicious person a platform if Ryan was a man of his morals he wouldn't want to give Charles an inch of the platform he has and a lot of us are very impressed to see you call him out on this it really showed that you were a man of your word and you stand on principle I just wanted to quickly commend you on that it was nice to see someone finally stand up and call out this immoral behavior in the community disappointing to see from Ryan and it was amazing to see you take a stand like that Ryan if you have 10,000 people telling you that you're in the right and I'm in the wrong wake up and here's why somebody like vegan cheetah will always have more viewers than I do will always have more fans than I do will always have more supporters than I do someone like durianrider no matter how many times you make threats of violence against people you made threats of violence against women - no matter how immoral and disgraceful during writers channel becomes durianrider will always have more fans than I do durianrider and cheetah will always have more people telling them they're right and I'm sure Ryan you will always have more people telling you that you're right also this is supposed to be about saving the animals this is suppose to be a modi khola lead is supposed to be saving the planet what I've got to ask you Ryan seriously is which group of people are going to do that which group of people are actually going to get organized go to City Hall make a foundation that's better than Peeta better than the Humane Society which group of people are actually gonna lay the groundwork which group of people are actually gonna lay the groundwork for saving the planet it's not the ten thousand teenagers who are backing up vegan cheetah and cheering him on when he does these disgraceful things it's not the twenty thousand people who were backing up and supporting durianrider when he was threatening to have a gang of people beat me up in the streets those people exist and they've got numbers but they don't have the discipline they don't have the morals they don't have the motivation to actually make this vegan movement matter I'm asking you to care a Ryan about the opinions of the ethical minority within ethical veganism maybe a million people support durianrider maybe a million people support vegan cheetah on some level Ryan you must be able to appreciate what we're doing here is not the same as a popularity contest between two channels that just do reviews of makeup and beauty products it's not the same as a Nisshin getting into a spute dispute with Jaclyn Glan it's not the same as two entertainment channels or two video game channels or two comic-book channels ultimately this is rooted in a ethical demand in a political struggle to save the planet think about how differently you would be behaving Ryan if even one video out of ten on your channel were sincerely motivated by that concern by that catchphrase we throw it so casually save the planet this this letter of just read to you from Amy I don't care if she's one person in a thousand or one person in a million I don't care how rare it is it's people like her it's people like Anna Scanlon who really in the next five years in the next 50 years can make the difference that veganism desperately needs to make so Ryan I'm asking you to appreciate the importance of her voice and the importance of my voice and to re-evaluate the perspective you've taken on people like durianrider on people like vegan cheetah
make in interpreting so-called YouTube drama conflict debates discussions between youtubers is of assigning some other mode of some other agenda to the conversation outside of prior to unrelated to the conversation okay let me tell you my conversation with Ryan from happy healthy vegan was about exactly what you see up on the surface there was no hidden agenda there wasn't something else I was driving at there were some things I was trying to say that I didn't get to say because he cut me off or he kept changed the topic conversation or reacting the way that he did I find found Ryan's reactions a little bit disorienting Ryan is not the kind of person I normally have a conversation with very different for me talking to Ryan as opposed to talking to someone like mod vegan you know I find it you can listen to my hour-and-a-half podcast with mod vegan what we're doing a book review together and talking in a really intellectually rigorous way about vegan politics and activism etc I find it really easy to follow Margaret's train of thought in that podcast and by contrast like Ryan saying some stuff to me and I'm thinking what oh where are you going if you hear the whole thing you can see that there's some points or just like how the hell did it take off that direction so you know no shade but yeah I think one of the ways in which people just really misinterpret and missed the point of these things is they come to these discussions with some kind of agenda and say oh he's only confronting Ryan about this for some other reason they ascribe some other agenda a motive to it totally outside of what's in the video what's in the conversation and in this case let me tell you that is not true at all if there's one point one example I wish I could have gotten across to Ryan and I think he didn't get it I think he didn't understand and I tried to bring it up at a couple points and really wasn't hearing it it would be the example of Anna Scanlon now Anna Scanlon this one example for me has a lot of significance above and beyond the experience of this one woman on YouTube okay Anna Scanlon most of you will not have heard of her she was a normal person on YouTube what does that mean she was a vegan she talked about veganism she talked about vegan activism she talked about vegan political theory I remember she had a video talking about the politics of why veganism was so popular within Israel because as something she knew about talking about her own life experience but not only talking about beam ISM why do I say she's a normal person I mean she was not selling a diet book she was not selling you weight loss secrets she was not trying to get famous she was not singing and dancing there's nothing wrong with singing and dancing I just mean she was not an entertainer she was not trying to be the next freely she was not trying to be the next vegan gains she was just trying to come on internet as a vegan as a normal person and share her perspective share what she had to share and the truth is somebody like her has a lot to share she has a PhD in history she's much more of an intellectual than the average voice of veganism you see on YouTube when I looked at someone like Anna Scanlon I see somebody who has the real potential to contribute to veganism as a movement in the next five years okay I got love for vegan gains I got love for Richard I got respect for what he does and I can never do what he does I am NOT gonna put on a wig and sing a song I am NOT gonna put on a wig and put on a fake Scottish accent Richard vegan gains is an entertainer okay I can totally respect that but when I look at somebody like Anna Scanlon or somebody like Maude vegan I get excited for a different reason because if there's one thing I cannot imagine Richard doing its standing in front of Parliament's at a podium giving a deposition I can't see him playing an organizing role in a bureaucratically complex situation at City Hall at the Board of Education I can't see him playing that rule and that's fine Richard I got love for you I got respect for you but what he does is different what veganism needs is not another 1000 people trying to be the next vegan gains what we need are 10,000 people like Ana Scanlon getting organized at local Parliament at City Hall creating foundations and you know what when you create a foundation a guy like vegan gains can contribute by doing the fundraising by making an announcement on his YouTube channel the entertainer's the tiny minority of vegans who become these types of famous personalities they can totally play a positive role but somebody has got to do the work somebody has got to do the dismal hard work bureaucratically putting together a foundation lobbying government making that positive change and I've heard so many vegans complain the Humane Society is corrupt and evil pedda people the Ethical Treatment animals is corrupt and evil I feel you I really do stop complaining put them in your shadow make something better create an alternative don't chase replace over a year ago I did this and then just yesterday before making this video I did it again I went to the official Government of Canada listing of registered charities okay my passport is Canadian I'm Canadian citizen I went to the Canadian registered charities list and I searched for the word vegan in all of Canada we make so much noise on the Internet do you want to know how many charities come up when you search for the word vegan one and it's called the dun vegan Historical Society dun vegan is just a Scottish name D un if eg a it's a Scottish name that happens to contain the letters vegan there's not a single charity listed on there that has vegan in its name or vegan in its description there are there are some foundations in Canada that do some stuff related to veganism but the Green Party is not vegan humane society is not vegan if anything they're anti vegan serious I'm not going to get into it here but like the Green Party in Canada is Pro meat industry and pro dairy industry huge problems like that in ecology okay we need to get organized we need to make something positive happen and we need people like Anna Scanlon we really do Anna Scanlon is not wearing a bikini she's not selling a diet book she's not singing she's not dancing I look at someone like her with her PhD in history coming on the internet talking about her real life talking about things of intellectual substance this is what we need okay but the reality is Anna Scanlon had a horribly traumatic experience because of vegan cheetah Anna Scanlon is on the list of people who broke down crying who had all this terrible stress brought into her life who have deleted her YouTube channel who disappeared from the internet and I hope she hasn't disappeared from Megan activism like forever because vegan cheetah decided to defame her just to entertain his audience he made up a sordid stupid story about a fake sexual liaison he had with her on skype over the you know they've never met face to face he did it just for views he did it just for infamy he did it just to get people talking he did it just for people's attention okay now look I am not perfect and you heard me say in that conversation with Ryan whether you heard the eight-minute version or you heard the 60-minute version I said to Ryan repeatedly Ryan I have low standards I have low expectations I don't expect you to be perfect and I said the cheetah in the past I was so understanding where she died was so forgiving to him up to a point up to a point when he crossed the line into defamation I was understanding okay defamation for me is over the line being in bad taste making jokes in bad taste is not over the line even if you don't like it even in front of defensive okay I do not expect Ryan to be perfect and I know I'm not perfect I've had so many criticisms of this channel but there are valid criticisms okay when I have made videos in bad taste when I have made videos that offend people I would challenge you not just to criticize the one sentence that offends you but to consider the video as a whole the argument and the point I'm making a lotta you forget this cuz it's such a long time ago there was a time when people hated me hated me because I dared to mention that freely has fake breasts which is our simple way of saying in English breast augmentation surgery okay there are people who felt that was in bad taste that it was insulting and denigrating for me to say that okay I think that's a valid criticism but watch the video as a whole I did not make a video just insulting freely for no reason it's not a drama video it's a really meaningful video talking about political problems in veganism talking about pseudoscience and bad diet advice that video I don't I'm happy that what one day my daughter can watch it I am not ashamed of that video if you feel it's crossing a line for me to say in that video for a good reason you know what I think people are forgetting freelee the banana girl she's very skinny and she presents this image of femininity and being curvy and athletic but you know what she's not just lying to you about her diet advice back at that time she had never made these videos admitting but you know part of the thing part of the part of her fame part of her rise to fame as a beauty icon has to do with the fact that she has fake breasts and that does matter because freely was somebody who claims she would never eat a mango if it wasn't Organa she was somebody who believed so much in this ideology of nature and natural medicine and natural Heidi she said you should never use shampoo and you should never use soap and they mean so many crazy statements you should never use medicine because medicine is unnatural this is somebody took on an ultra ante scientific anti modern medicine perspective who preached so much on the basis of an ideology of what nature means and at the same time the reality is she has the ultimate unnatural medical procedure she had surgery to have fake press it matters it's not meaningless what I do is not just gossip even if you take that out of context and say this is so immoral and so wrong for you to say that freely as fake press but I understand I'm not perfect okay if you're so offended by the fact that I mentioned freely has fake breasts you can't hear the rest of the message I understand Ryan from happy healthy vegan you have taken on the role of policing other people's YouTube content I don't know why you felt I was crossing a line in making a video in which I said in passing Nina and Randa are not that attractive if Nina and Randa go to an audition in Los Angeles the other girls at that audition the other young women at that audition for that same part Nina and Aranda are not going to look outstanding Lee beautiful compared to the other girls that dition in LA okay if you feel that's over the line I understand but guess what that video as a whole watch the first seven minutes of that video it's not about whether or not Nina and Randa are attractive it's not a hot or not video and hundreds of people have made those videos there are hundreds people mean hot hot or not videos top ten lists sexiest begins all that crap exists on the internet that's a video with a really sincere really important message that I still stand by and that I've defended against criticism repeatedly and said no this video is making a really Gordon point about the role of leadership about major issues and important questions and veganism and that video is in large part inspired by the fact that I've been reading the academic literature the debates going on within veganism and animal rights and I was amazed at the low intellectual caliber of what was being published by people with PhDs I'm amazed at the low intellectual caliber of what's said by major leaders like Gary Yourofsky Gary France Ian a you know that video there's such a long list of names it's not just a budding writer there's more than 20 names of important vegans criticised okay if any of these things were true a vegan cheetah it would be different if vegan cheetah had made an insulting comment about Anna Scanlon in passing in the context of a video that was sincerely trying to support a better future for the vegan movement the way that video my video that mentions meaning right the way that was if there was any validity if there was any good intention behind what cheetah was doing here it would be different okay if Anna Scanlon had quit YouTube over a controversy in which cheetah had criticized her about the actual contents of her videos of politically or in terms of animal rights ethics any of these controversial issues whether it's vivisection or pet ownership or domestication or there's so many real and important debates that would be different okay that's not the situation we're in Ryan the situation we are in is that cheetah is defaming people just for the sake of the defamation itself he's really harming people with real malice and it really damages the movement and if Anna Scanlon was the only one if she was the only example this would still be of tremendous significance because for every one person like Anna Scanlon who has the courage to come here on the Internet I know there are 10,000 who say to me who sent me email saying they would never open a YouTube channel because they are afraid they are living in fear of the consequences not the consequences from the meat industry not the consequences from bacon eating trolls the consequences from other vegans the sheer malice and shallowness and pettiness and gossip mongering the defamation and threats of violence from people like durianrider and people like vegan cheetah the hostility and danger created within the vegan movement it's created by other vegans and it's created for no legitimate reason it's not because they wanted to be vivisection it's not because they want to debate abolition versus meatless Mondays okay look there are so many legitimate debates Anna Scanlon is an important example in herself but she represents thousands out there who are voiceless and who are gonna remain voiceless and those people do send me email I get emails from people all the time telling me that I'm so brave because I put up with this I endure the defamation I keep coming back even though I've suffered so much just for speaking publicly about veganism and I've suffered so much at the hands of my fellow vegans I get those emails I get emails from people who are my viewers and they say I'd love to do what you're doing you're so brave but I'm a school teacher I work in the school system but I'm an architect but I have some respectable job so I can't risk it what are they talking about we're seeing they can't risk that what's happened to me threats of violence defamation accusations lies that they can't risk if that will happen to them they can't risk that what happened to Anna Scanlon vegan cheetah inventing a story like this they can't risk that it'll happen to them Ryan I appreciate your sincerity I don't think you were phony with me at all but I think you really don't get it I think you are only thinking short-term about the next video you upload and you're not thinking about the future of the movement I think you were completely sincere in making a decision in isolation to make a video asking me to apologize Nina Randa I don't think you had any bad motives I I I really disliked the video you made because I think you misrepresent what I said and why I said it it is damaging to me I don't like that but hey okay and Ryan at some point short-term thinking starts to resemble evil for the record Ryan I really tried to start in a positive footing with you I started I started by talking about the weather and then I started talking about Buddhism I started talking about the fact that I have a background that you know nothing about because you don't watch my channel I have a background as a real scholar of Buddhism I actually learned to read pally the ancient language in which the Buddhist Canon is preserved the original writings that form Buddhist philosophy in ancient India before Buddhism was exported to Tibet and Japan and China I thought I could try to build with you on the common ground that we have okay I did repeatedly also apart from starting in that positive manner I repeatedly said to you I don't expect you to be perfect I don't expect you to solve my problems don't expect you to fight my battles for me I made so many excuses for you in that conversation really offering you kind of peace offering you're setting up common ground trying to build in something positive and Ryan I don't think you're cynical I don't think you have any bad motives but looking back on that conversation if I ask why did you fail to respond positively why did you fail to build on that common ground I think it's the same answer as why you have failed to recognize why the damage done by durianrider is so serious why the damage done by cheetah is so serious and why it's necessary for people of principle to stand up and draw a line and say no more say I think the reason why you didn't build in that common ground is because you're not thinking about even the next five years you're not thinking about what you can do that's positive for the vegan movement and you're not thinking about the danger of what these other people are doing that's negative for the moment the profound influence somebody like durianrider who made threats of violence against people before he made threats against me who defame people before he made threats against me and you you Ryan you never had a problem with it you kept promoting durianrider on your channel and vice versa hoping during Ryder promote you you were just chasing your a little bit of YouTube fame you're a little bit of YouTube income you didn't give a you never took a stand when one scandal after another was created by durianrider and now you've never taken a stand when one scandal after another is created by cheetah the ultimate outcome of this constant internecine mean-spirited scandal mongering the defamation the threats of violence the outcome is that the only people who can use YouTube to talk about veganism or people like durianrider are people who aren't damaged emotionally or professionally like in terms of their work life by accusations of being a pedophile on the Internet ok durianrider made false allegations against me that i was a pedophile and as you know cheetah at one point made false allegations against durianrider claiming that durianrider is a pedophile and durianrider nevertheless turned around and made friends with cheetah and cooperated with cheetah okay people like durianrider are in the tiny minority who will still come on the internet and play this game when those are the rules of the game was played by people like Ana Scanlon are not we're losing the people who can make a positive difference all right that ultimately is the price we're paying because of people like you Ryan and people like durianrider and people like cheetah and you know at bottom when you put aside the more salacious aspects that when you put aside the fact that durianrider threatened to kick my ass he threatened to beat me up and pull me into a police station we set aside the fact that I am still in you know divorce hearings negotiations for custody of my own daughter and the damage that could be done to my life by this kind of a legate you know we put aside all of the more dramatic elements what really is at the basis of durianrider shaming and denigrating people this way what really is the basis of chichi de shaming and denigrating people it's way you know like the basic thing that both of them have tried to slander me with is the idea that I'm a I'm a vegan who's sleeping around now in my case that's not true that hasn't been true there are vegans in Chiangmai who are sleeping around okay and I don't think any of them deserve this treatment you know I have videos criticizing Ted car Ted car he talks about his lifestyle I would never a shame Ted Carr for the fact that he pretty openly says he's going to Chiangmai meeting vegan women he's doesn't believe in commitment he has open relationships he pretty much spells it out for you that he's there sleeping around there's a couple I'm sorry I forget their names there's a husband and wife couple or boyfriend/girlfriend couple in Chiangmai two white people and they are a big force they're organizers behind the Winter Taif root festival they have an open relationship they have a ton of videos talking about their sex lives they sleep around okay how how can it possibly be except let me look when I look at people like that when I look at people I take are the fundamental reason why I don't take them seriously is that I can't imagine them making a positive commitment to the vegan movement in the next five years I can't imagine them getting organized at City Hall and Parliament or any of those things said before but even so I don't wish that on Ted car I don't wish that any of those people none of these people deserve to be dragged out and slandered and humiliated for their sex lives just because they dare to talk about veganism on the internet like they're not even vegan activists they're just people who talk about vegan activism they're not even people who are saving the planet that just people come out and talk about their aspiration to save the planet to have this positive impact to make this contribution there's this this terrible risk there are these terrible consequences added on to just being vegan on YouTube because people like durianrider and people like cheetah try to earn their living by humiliating you by dragging your private life out into the public it's shameful it's really shameful Ryan and I don't know why it is you sleepwalk through life and you can't look in the mirror and see what's shameful about the role you've played in it and I know hundreds of people writing to you when the controversy between me and durianrider happened and explaining to you just how shameful it was for you okay you chose to play this role policing the vegan demi-monde here on YouTube you choose to make videos demanding that people apologize for things they say even when the things that really if you look back at it Ryan are really trivial like my comment about Nina and Randa in the context of that video a video that has a point a video that's not just shaming and humiliating someone okay you've chosen to take on that role Ryan and you can change you can say you're not gonna define you can play about whatever rules you want to play by okay actions have consequences Ryan and the people you associate with the people you're promoting like durianrider and like cheetah when they do immoral acts that really have consequences on individual people's lives that hurt me that hurt Anna Scanlon that hurt so many other people you've got to reflect on that and you got to reflect on the fact that long term they're hurting the vegan movement itself I'm gonna read you one email I got so that it's not just me I'm not gonna use your real name I'm just gonna say her name is Amy it's not a real name I'm gonna read this real quickly Ryan it's not just me I got this email from someone who's one of your viewers one of your regular viewers Ryan happy healthy vegan she writes aisel I want just want to take a moment to commend you on taking a moral stance of principled on your stream with happy healthy vegan I myself am a vegan who has watched vegan content on YouTube for a few years now and never have I seen such deliberate slander and toxicity than I have from cheetah it is absolutely disgusting to me and to be frank blows my mind how people still endorse and support this man after the horrid things he said and done the allegations of calling you a fraud and a wife-beater he's called me a fraud and a wife-beater the way he mocked tofu Tommy's eating disorder by pretending to cry and vomit in a bucket on you now reducing Tommy to tears and suicidal thoughts the way he mocked vegan lasses appearance calling her an alien the way he made fun of Joe vegan calling him but calling him a joke for raising a baby on a supermarket cashier salary on tumblr the way he humiliated Anna Scanlon and brought her to tears the way he told a viewer to go to go take care of his child how on earth can these people especially ethical vegans support such horrid and disgusting behavior like this so when I saw the broadcast you were on with Ryan it was such a relief to see a vegan content vegan content creator call out one of their peers for giving such a malicious person a platform if Ryan was a man of his morals he wouldn't want to give Charles an inch of the platform he has and a lot of us are very impressed to see you call him out on this it really showed that you were a man of your word and you stand on principle I just wanted to quickly commend you on that it was nice to see someone finally stand up and call out this immoral behavior in the community disappointing to see from Ryan and it was amazing to see you take a stand like that Ryan if you have 10,000 people telling you that you're in the right and I'm in the wrong wake up and here's why somebody like vegan cheetah will always have more viewers than I do will always have more fans than I do will always have more supporters than I do someone like durianrider no matter how many times you make threats of violence against people you made threats of violence against women - no matter how immoral and disgraceful during writers channel becomes durianrider will always have more fans than I do durianrider and cheetah will always have more people telling them they're right and I'm sure Ryan you will always have more people telling you that you're right also this is supposed to be about saving the animals this is suppose to be a modi khola lead is supposed to be saving the planet what I've got to ask you Ryan seriously is which group of people are going to do that which group of people are actually going to get organized go to City Hall make a foundation that's better than Peeta better than the Humane Society which group of people are actually gonna lay the groundwork which group of people are actually gonna lay the groundwork for saving the planet it's not the ten thousand teenagers who are backing up vegan cheetah and cheering him on when he does these disgraceful things it's not the twenty thousand people who were backing up and supporting durianrider when he was threatening to have a gang of people beat me up in the streets those people exist and they've got numbers but they don't have the discipline they don't have the morals they don't have the motivation to actually make this vegan movement matter I'm asking you to care a Ryan about the opinions of the ethical minority within ethical veganism maybe a million people support durianrider maybe a million people support vegan cheetah on some level Ryan you must be able to appreciate what we're doing here is not the same as a popularity contest between two channels that just do reviews of makeup and beauty products it's not the same as a Nisshin getting into a spute dispute with Jaclyn Glan it's not the same as two entertainment channels or two video game channels or two comic-book channels ultimately this is rooted in a ethical demand in a political struggle to save the planet think about how differently you would be behaving Ryan if even one video out of ten on your channel were sincerely motivated by that concern by that catchphrase we throw it so casually save the planet this this letter of just read to you from Amy I don't care if she's one person in a thousand or one person in a million I don't care how rare it is it's people like her it's people like Anna Scanlon who really in the next five years in the next 50 years can make the difference that veganism desperately needs to make so Ryan I'm asking you to appreciate the importance of her voice and the importance of my voice and to re-evaluate the perspective you've taken on people like durianrider on people like vegan cheetah