Vegan Cheetah, Durianrider, Me: Short-Term Scandals & the Future of Veganism.

I buhdeuce yen okay but look so I was
asking you how do you feel about it because I mean it seems to me you you're quite upset by and that's understandable because I think you care a lot about the vegan cause you care a lot about the digital veganism but i would ask you you know what is it what is it you find upsetting or what is it you're responding to him right you're exactly right and you know what and if the strange thing is is that I care about Charles Marlow you know what I mean I don't know why but uh you know I kind of do and I'm try not to take sides but it's hard because like um a lot of things that are said about eyes Wilma zard you know name good and bad a lot of it's bad but you know I I'm just starting to get to know you now and as far as everything that I know about you from personal interactions is that you're a good guy I haven't seen anything you know that could be proven that says he or anything but like what you claim to be not a perfect human being you can only mean but like somebody who's intelligent and caring and try to do things and you know God cares about the movement and trying to lead be a leader right and you know is getting bogged down by this all this personal you know you know the one thing with these called politics of personal destruction really what I mean like they're trying to destroy you but I don't exactly know why the things I think I don't really know you that well we're just kind of getting to know each other but that's gonna think nothing like the thing and for my perspective is that like front from what I know personally about you you seem like a good guy a genuine guy and I haven't seen any evidence to suggest that you're guilty of any of the things that people who said you're guilty of okay now Charles on the other hand who I do like and I do care about and who like to me personally has always treated me with a lot of respect okay even though like whatever my youtube channels got you know what I mean you know whatever not even two thousand views the only mean I got like what at forty five subscribers but he's he oh but he always did that contributed a lot of respect and was like one of the first people that actually you know like recognize me on social media maybe we've kind of buddies in whatever Facebook and think so like I thought he was a cool guy and the whole story about him um you know in his recovery and all that kind of stuff it's inspiring you know what I mean and his honesty you know but I thought it was his honesty about himself and his struggle his relapsing his he like mean like I thought he was cool obviously you know he's like a very like kind of a fun guy and he's northing well totally look I for me I like a guy I like anybody who really works hard and he's working hard yeah but um basically you know what I'm trying to say is that like all this stuff I like you guys both but you I haven't seen any evidence of anything untoward but with Charles he's putting it out there himself saying that it's about money it's a business you don't even care about veganism just slandering durianrider say he's got HIV slandering you putting out these offensive pictures you only mean so like I care about vegan cheetah I you know I wanted to 68 I wanted to be successful wanted be happy I wanted to stay out of prison I wanted to be a good example to picked up two people but like some of the stuff is just unacceptable well look I tell you obviously I'm a lot closer to Charles and have been for a longer period of time you've definitely mentioned one of the big sources of positive support he's had which is just that people want to see him succeed and that is because he was a drug addict you know he went back after he started his youtube channel he went back into rehab not quite prison but you know he was in rehab in the note of rehab you probably know i made this video welcoming him back you know when he got out of rehab and there was this kind of big broad public support just wanted him to succeed just wanting him to be okay because the background he came from and you know he's he's struggled with a mix of kind of positive and negative motivations in terms of what he's doing on youtube and why he's doing it he had a period when he was being a bit more of a you know social justice warrior when he was being a bit more left-wing and talking about intersection ilysm he's talked about like socialism I remember having conversations with him I do not describe myself as a socialist I'm not socialist and I'm not left-wing I'm pretty close to the middle of the political spectrum I remember having conversations them about that obviously I mean you guys know I have a podcast up about it I talked to him about you know death and the meaning of life after his mom died and he and I have also talked about our sex lives it's a fair bit about that in like our podcasts that's you know public so to say like it's not all it's not all private conversation so we were we were pretty close friends in that sense and you know yeah on a very basic level people just wanted to see him succeed wanted to see him do well and you know I don't think also in the past before his channel was huge there's the positive support wanting them to do well but also people didn't really have any you know hard expectations for him people weren't looking at him and saying oh like you owe us something you know if you don't if you don't deliver this for the vegan community we're disappointed with you and as soon as you get some level of success people do look you that when you yourself traveller you know you yourself Leonard you may experience that soon enough like if you're following grows then people start having these kind of demands and expectations on you and you say whoa whoa whoa this is just something I do in my spare time you know i'm not i'm not pedda I'm not paid people with ethical jamel not some huge institution I'm one guy with a camera you know trying to do something positive so you know he came out of in that sense he had those sort of advantages in terms of how people regarded in what they expected from him and you know from my perspective he's really destroyed that he's destroyed all the goodwill the people at the ward him of course you saw how much goodwill there was towards him when his channel was very briefly deleted you know for 30 days or something his channel was deleted so again everyone just wanted him to succeed and we were all kind of biased we were all kind of overlooking the negative aspects of what he'd been doing for that reason just wanting to support him and at that time of trouble or what have you um but you know with all that haven't been said my most recent video about him just has garbage content in the title that's a term he used to use himself he used to say the problem with freely is that she produces garbage content which you know it's one of the problems with freely for sure and you know today that's basically that's the most fundamental thing about she does that he's producing garbage content I'm looking sorry you said so much it there's something else I wanted to respond to I mean I really do understand why you feel upset might feel round but many people do you know people who are my fans when people people who just care about veganism you know get really upset with this stuff though the perspective I see it in though you know is this if you look at other people have been important voices and veganism and the struggle they had to go through just to be known just to be a known name to be recognized to have their opinions listen to and taken seriously often it was decades a very very hard work with a lot of suffering and I haven't had to do that you know so like in two years with in veganism you know I started with a blog you guys have recently probably seen that vogue the vegan mind tricks blog and then you know I started a YouTube channel and you know very rapidly I have become one of the best-known names and I know you're saying like people make up lies about me but I'm also one of the people whose most respected and where people you know I get fan mail from people really saying that I've changed their lives people who deeply appreciate what I've done and you know talk in detail about the way in which I've changed their lives or change their their philosophy of life for their worldview or something not every channel is like that I mean there are channels that are way more popular than mine but that don't have that really you know deep level of connection with the audience or where it's not you know just the topics being talked about or not that deep you know channels that are just about cooking or food shopping there's nothing wrong with that but that's very different from what my role has been in veganism so you know overall um you know III can't complain both short-term and long-term if you look at okay over two years what have I been able to make happen you have really set up a very positive basis for having of you know very meaningful role in veganism in ecology and I look at the next five years and again I only see a very a basis for something really positive uh so look you know that doesn't mean I'm unaware of the negative aspects of the situation but you know I think that's maybe the sense in which I I'm more calm and more relaxed with us than other people if this had happened to me back when my channel only had a hundred viewers maybe I would have just deleted the channel you know I think a lot of people that they get this kind of negative backlash early on and you know there's nothing positive in the other side of the balance so they just get scared out of youtube or scared out of politics or what have you but for me I can look at it and say look even if it's only 2,000 people who care about my channel to me that's a big number you know it's 2,000 people who really care as 2,000 people who really appreciate what I do would have done in the past and the potential I've got to do slim paused in the future so from that perspective there's a sense in which I can't complain right well yeah and that's I mean I'm glad he called in when you did because I was just starting to get it on the subject you know what I mean and um I'm glad you feel of the weight that you do and you know and you're you know and you're not taking it too personally or two you know I mean I was shocked and saddened and I was you know I was really like disappointed right you know and here i am doing this rigging marathon sessions trying to like bring some civility and then Charles Marlow is just bringing it to like new lows I totally agree but this is the other thing that's different when you're bigger the other thing that's different is lost is the lost potential right if somebody with only 200 viewers is doing what Charles did and they're all there are a ton the number of channels that are doing slander and insults like I saw that back when durianrider first started insulting me like that that went durianrider first start insulting me there were people who just believed what during writer said a hundred percent so there were all these channels that were seriously defaming me like saying you know really terrible things about me but they you know most of them only have 200 viewers 500 viewers or something it's it's all a bit of a joke and I actually wonder how many of those people have no deleted their videos and feel ashamed because most of those people even if they're stupid over time over a period of four months they figured out that what during writer was saying was either a hundred percent Ally or ninety percent Ally but they figured out the extent to which they were being lied to by someone they trusted but like someone in Charles's position in terms of having an audience etc you're not just looking at what they do as bad you're also looking at it as a wasted opportunity right it's also like well think about what you could be doing for veganism or you know even what you could be doing for YouTube in a sense right like you know you know it for me it's all about veganism but even you just think about it as a you know a social media platform to do or say anything positive to do or say anything interesting this is something tremendously negative and as I just had a video up talking to the fact this really does have negative impacts on people's personal lives but aside from that you are squandering an opportunity to save the planet help the animals just helped propel and propound veganism whatever you want to say about it right it's squandering a precious opportunity that thousands of other vegans wish they had including vegans who are like you know respectable university professors or respectable authors there's so many vegans that nobody has heard of you know worked for years in like a community activism or what have you and who will never have an audience the size of Charles Marlow so yeah I'll give you one example now if anyone wants to google this and you know I'm not I'm not endorsing this person i'm not saying i'd agree with her there is a woman named Doris Lynn so first name Doris and her last name is just Li n lien Doris Lynn and if you look up her resume she has this you know incredibly long list of causes related to veganism animal rights environmental protection you know she brought a lawsuit against the state of New Jersey challenging the legal basis for bear hunting you know blah blah blah you know what if she's she's sort of toiled for years you know uh and nobody's I'm not saying this to insult her compared to someone like vegan cheetah I can say nobody's ever heard of her and nobody ever is going to hear of her you know now what is her perspective I've looked up a little bit I think she actually does watch vegan youtubers I think she actually is one of the many like more respectable people and veganism and West ecology who looks at this stuff with a sense of horror what have you but you know whether it's the older generation and younger generation um I again there's sort of its there's this whole question of wasted talent lost opportunities the voices that gets silenced by this I think someone like Doris Lynn now I don't think I have a chance in hell of having her do an interview on my channel right like think about that so she's trying to be a respectable political leader advocate involved in this stuff would she be willing to appear on youtube on the ballast yell show and i can tell you i know i've never written her but i have written to several people who are university professors whose whole careers are about veganism and animal rights i never get a reply or sometimes i get a first reply that's one sense longer than nothing even though i can say to them at this point look if you appear on my channel i can guarantee you that 2,000 people will hear your lecture hear what you have to say about veganism and you know very likely 5,000 people you know it's an interesting video I'll get five thousand viewers and they know and I say to them explicitly if you go to an animal rights conference maybe only 30 or 50 people are going to hear the message and it won't change anything in the world but you know please consider appearing on my youtube channel please would consider you know basically having a skype conversation and putting it on youtube and you can't get that to happen now on a deep level why can't you it partly is because of cheetah and it partly is because of people like durianrider and freely it partly is because the digital vegan demi-monde has so much dragged the name through veganism it has dragged the name of veganism through the mud has made it something Despicable and laughable but anyway I was just saying you know in a sense that that is one of the one of the prices that we're paying right now in terms of veganism kind of be having been made into a circus or a sideshow or a joke on the internet there are advantages like people get viewers and a few people make money like only a few people make money out of this game that's another thing to be clear about but um you know there are disadvantages also to be sure was there anything specific you want to ask me about him I'm cool this is some great broadcasting here but you really unfortunately I it can you pass your eyes all in on the chat room it's so like and so I can hardly hear you so it's frustrating because let's do that what I am getting is actually I feel a lot better than I did you know II mean before you call because we were just touching on the subject yeah and so I spent like the first half an hour's you know I mean going over like what we've accomplished last five days new me putting in like forty four hours of broadcasting all these amazing interviews you know I mean all amazing people in the chat room you know II mean like all this stuff like yesterday we had so many likes we had so many people dumping likes into this broadcast we were blowing away vegan cheetah who had ten times more viewers he said I'm saying like we we were blowing him away we had more than twice too many likes even though he had 10 times the viewers yeah yeah well that's what you always have to think about you have to think about the depth and meaning of the connection right I mean like a lot of one of the signs of maturity you have to understand not all attention is good attention not all interaction with your audience is is a meaningful interaction and you know I mean the other thing I'll say for my perspective I think I think I should wrap up this call it's too bad the audio quality is bad at your end I have recorded this so i can i can post this as a little mini podcast or something you know I really do view these things in terms of setting up a basis for the next five years or the next 30 years of the next or the next 50 years and when you view it in from that angle again that's one reason why I'm not too upset about all the lies being told about me right now people kind of building a myth mythology around me um it's better for me that we deal with this now instead of five years from now or 10 years from now like okay so the fake scandals the lies and you know a lot of it is just fiction being told about me not the internet the reality of my life is not that exciting and you know not everyone's an idiot you have to appreciate the idiots are the loudest people on the internet but there are a lot of people who appreciate what's going on who realized that certain people have a very strong motivation to and they are lying but from my perspective also I'm really committed to this cause for the rest of my life so I've got to say hey okay let's deal with this now you know I'll see you in five years what is vegan cheat are going to be doing in five years and what I mean is what is he going to be doing for the vegan movement and I have that question for other people too what is hey Nia Kenya mania going to be doing for veganism in five years yeah i'm not i'm not saying that at of hatred but let's be real is he Davis or something what is easy Davis going to be doing for veganism in five years a lot of these people i have no faith are going to be doing anything positive for the movement and then the other hand i mean i look at somebody like you you know I just met you a few days ago and I do i do have hope i think you know why not hey this is somebody who couldn't who could do something positive this is somebody who could make a positive and meaningful contribution to beacon ism and in a sense almost anyone can you know um anyone's welcome to try but it certainly is sad that some of the people who are most prominent now were the greatest luminaries our people were i have no hope at all that they're going to do anything positive for veganism is move in next five years and me it as much as i'm confident that i will or that I'll at least try i say okay fine let's let's deal with the rumors now let's deal with the fake scandals now and then five years from now you know hopefully I've built a whole constituency whole public that trust me and that are able to look back on that stuff and laugh and i can make a comparison here in politics you know Donald Trump think about how many sex scandals Donald Trump had back in the 1980s I think those were real sex scandals you know Donald Trump he was married to one woman and then there was this other woman who appeared in Playboy magazine eventually who was his girlfriend and then Donald Trump got divorced it was his whole scandal but this is decades ago now Donald Trump now was running for president and nobody is questioning it sex life they're all kinds of things to question his politics I mean don't get me wrong i'm not i'm not a Donald Trump supporters on my point my point is just the passage of time even with a real scandal even with real questions like that if Donald Trump had gone through those same scandals now or in the future it would be a huge problem for his political career but he was able to address that early on so in some ways for me it's actually advantageous to just did your this now and say okay five years from now people year 2021 what's up who's really working for the cause who's really building a foundation who's really building a constancy who's trying to really make something positive happen locally nationally internationally on youtube at City Hall at Parliament whatever hit me up ah ba new CN