Not all indigenous people are tribal, not all tribal people are indigenous.
03 January 2019 [link youtube]
Q: "Is WHITE NATIONALISM always RACIST? Is all ethic nationalism always a racist or bad thing?" A question from a supporter on Patreon. In my reply, I make use of examples spanning North America, Europe and Asia —but with some special emphasis on Asia and Native Americans / First Nations of Canada.
And yeah, you too can support the creation of new content on Patreon for $1 per month, and ask questions that will inspire new videos (much like this one… and yet, also, utterly different). ;-)
https://www.patreon.com/a_bas_le_ciel/
Youtube Automatic Transcription
brand-new suit same old business shirt
however you got a dress for the job you want not the job you have got the job of God is you to start this with a catchphrase that came up many times in my life in different fields of research not all tribal peoples are indigenous and not all indigenous people are tribal I can remember that catchphrase of mine of my own invention came as a kind of revelation and philosophical topic talking point to people working on anthropology in elite universities like Cambridge in Oxford to people of frankly doing linguistics in Cambodia people working on different kinds of tribal and indigenous peoples in northern Laos southwestern and Southeast Asia and then when I returned to Canada to work on Korean a jeep way as languages that same catchphrase came up again and again especially when talking about the politics of one group of indigenous people being posed against the others for example the conflict between the Cree and of the Blackfoot or the Cree and the snake Indians or what have you often there were contests over who was truly indigenous in a given area compared uh the Korean the den a it's even better example what land was really denied land and what was really creel and quite apart from the question of English and French colonialism I've got a question that came in as they can already know from the description to this video question that came in basically about white ethno-nationalism and I understand why this person sent me this question it's from a patreon supporter who will remain will definitely remain nameless except want to embarrass the guy he's gone out on a limb and asked me he potentially very provocative question and let's just say we've had a lot of discussion about censorship here on YouTube and on patreon lately it is likely it is it is inevitable that this video will be demonetized and it's likely it will be banned just because I am answering this question so it'll probably get the status where it's not visible outside the United States of America or it's not listed and restricted status I've had that happen ago peated Lee if you talk about real politics in a real way eh no matter how politically correct you are on YouTube you do face a certain kind of chilling effect so this will be great listed if not blacklisted but I appreciate his courage and asking the question I hope he appreciates my courage and giving you the answer awesome hmm you don't get a sense it's actually a pretty tight fitting suit but because I'm holding my phone up there what is the good balloons out alright I'm assuming you guys gonna see more of this suit I don't know that many changes of costume here at a Bella ciela Broadcasting Corporation alright maybe we'll find some more maybe we'll find some more menswear before we leave Germany maybe alright um okay he asks Heysel I'm a new patreon but I've seen many of your videos of the fast past four years on YouTube I wanted to ask your thoughts on ethnic nationalism and specifically if it fits into your definition of inherently racist so that's not a term I use I totally understand the question but I do not use the term inherently racist I don't think there is a meaningful distinction between something being intrinsically and extrinsic ly racist but I know what he means I know why he's asking he continues quote my background is that I am a white American but being quote unquote white is only part of my identity in as much as it is an objective description of my skin color and a genetic indication of my ancestry or to say it another way I don't consider the term white American to be meaningful at all in any kind of profound sense all the races and ethnicities can be just as American as me okay close quote pause do you think that would be your perspective if you were Mohawk Indian do you think a member of the Mohawk tribe right now probably living in Montreal most of them some of them still live on the reservation we just looked up the number about 24,000 of them in Canada do you think the Mohawks would say what you just said that anyone can be just as Canadian as them or anyone could be just as American as them how about the Ojibwe how about the Navajo do you see how your question is in a not too subtle way already missing a big fundamental point you feel that as a white American that Chinese people can be just as American as you a really oh yeah this ain't New England this is never going to be New England where you're living right it's never gonna be new Europe it's always gonna be old genocide so I think it's a very fundamental assumption here you're missing all right but hey thanks for your sure we're not done we're not done with the Q&A session yet he continues this is the beginning and not the end of our our discourse on this matter okay however so quote however in taking your advice and using sympathy as a philosophical tool I wonder to what extent physical appearance does have a real meaning in terms of what it means to be part of a particular nationality perhaps you have some insights you can share from your travel since my personal experience has been limited compared to yours like I've traveled so much in Asia I presume well let's travel a lot you're up to at this point um a couple questions I want to ask one quote would you or I ever be considered Chinese Japanese Kenyan etc by the native citizens if we were to live in and become citizens of their country what about our theoretical children with a Chinese Japanese or Kanyon wife okay so close quote wait so this is a meaningful question and I'm gonna give a relatively short answer I'm not gonna monologue for an hour about the differences between Chinese and Japanese culture what you you'll be an interesting video to a smaller reveal that is it's a real question you talk about and even within China you can talk about how Hong Kong is different from Yunnan you could talk about different regions how what's like to assimilate into the Dongbei and what it's like to be on a border area with India and what have you you know so I mean there's a lot to say just about China and Japan um but the problem here is the asymmetry the indigenous people of China are Chinese now they're not only Chinese there were other indigenous ethnic minority groups the vast majority of the indigenous people of China or Han Chinese now the indigenous people of Germany or German there are some other groups in Germany there's also called the sorbs the sorbs or an indigenous I think we're already in Germany they don't come from somewhere else they're just always been in Germany they're ours but the vast majority of the indigenous P of Germany are Germans we can continue Switzerland is multilingual and multi-ethnic but you can break down province by province in Switzerland who is indigenous so you see why I opened with this light motif not all indigenous people are tribal not all tribal people are indigenous it um how about where you're from how about the United States of America whose indigenous there how about your state how about your city what what language do they speak what religion did a half what was there what was their style of dress what was their system of government what was their political history before you took it all away from them I'm sorry it's not the same I understand why I asked the question and it's a fascinating question if I could just answer the question of what is it like to be an immigrants in China or Japan or several other examples that either know directly or some stand directly through friends or through research and whatever sure it's fascinating but this is never going to be the same for continents like North America and Australia where the the scenario we're talking about is all built on a bedrock of genocide and not even cultural genocide AB the solut genocide I'll come back to that distinction that there's cultural genocide and there's just outright genocide that these are two different things when I lived in Laos I learned to speak the language and it was not my top priority this is an answer your question directly it's not a digression when I was in Laos had many other priorities including learning an ancient language called Palli so learning Lao was not the main thing I was working on but I did I did put some time and effort into learning Lao and toward the end of my time there when the government had already threatened to kill me and excelled me from the country putting an abrupt end to my humanitarian work and they really the threat to kill me went on and on they were there were details of the threats to murder me you know my parents would never find my body it would be disposed of but there's such and such conditions and so on and so forth and my co-workers were interrogated by the Communist Party and had to make confessions for their failure to report me as the thought-criminal of the Communist Party this kind of thing so it was a big event bringing abrupt end to my research humanitarian work and language study in Laos and at that late stage I had the the touching and unexpected experience of lotion people referring to me in allow as lotion and one old woman said of me she was sings reassuringly to a middle-aged lotion man she said don't worry he's a white Lau like he's white but he's one of us he's white but he's lotion which stunned me I'd never thought of that possibility before that I would be accepted as lotion I'm also I'm big I'm six foot three six or three in the morning six foot two and a half he thought this time of day now okay oh look yeah that was stunning to me and I'd never thought of it lotion culture is quite accepting outsiders and the flip side of that was what had happened to me several times before that were people attacking me and denouncing me for being lotion with hatred Thai people Thai people hating me for being they didn't use the term of white loud I think maybe one of them did I think one of them said I was a white level but but they mostly just attacking us for being lotion and it's real obvious that I'm that I'm in no sense ethnically lotion so there are some ethnic groups in Asia that are still recruiting put it that way there were some it's not even ethnic groups there are some nationalities that's really the term to use your lotion is really a nationality and not just an ethnic group not going to get into it and there are some that consider themselves closed to outsiders and there are some that are halfway in between and you know but I remember I got a lot of angels with a guy in Mongolia and his experience and Mongolian culture guests seemed to be it seemed to be pretty open to accepting him if he converted to an accepted Mongolian buddhism and if he drank Mongolian liquor with them and so few other things like this then they were pretty open to him being kind of taken on board but Japanese culture is famous the other way that it does you know you can never be Japanese enough if you weren't a hundred percent from there even if you are ethnically Japanese but you were born in Brazil that's a there's a huge body of scholarly literature on that ethnically Japanese people who migrated to Brazil and migrated back again and they're never accepted they're always treated as foreigners there are many scenarios like this so different answers during different scenarios number two quote if theoretically half of the citizens of China Japan or Kenya any of these countries if half the citizens of China let's say were white Middle Eastern or Mexican ie they were some other nationality woody resistance to that from the native citizens be morally right or wrong in your opinion it's happening right now within China Google sins yung Google Tibet Google any of the instances within China of the Han Chinese systematically eradicating the indigenous people and population and step one is by moving in Han Chinese to become the majority so the the very intentional erasure of Tibetan culture the very intentional erasure of cynjohn cultures is ongoing and it's it's a form of relatively slow motion and genteel cultural genocide not outright genocide again in issue we have to come back to you again and again so what what do you mean resistance right I mean this opens up all kinds of questions but this is not hypothetical this is actual as soon as you get into you know a little kind of deeper level of knowledge of any of these places I would absolutely assume certainly within within Africa within Kenya there are some really really shocking ethnic conflicts within Kenya I know this much about it so and so forth however look what do you mean by resistance every country in the world simply dictates how many immigrants they're in accept and how many they're gonna reject it's called immigration policy unfortunately in 2018 we live in a period of time when everything the left-wing says about immigration policy is [ __ ] everything the right-wing says about immigration policy is [ __ ] and everything that is said by the moderates at every gradation in the middle is dishonest and misleading [ __ ] from my perspective immigration policy whether we're talking about refugees illegal immigration or legal licit mainstream immigration did you're a immigration we could say um all of it it's in a black box where nobody is really allowed to discuss what the facts are or what the options are or what we're gonna do moving forward and although in many ways it's obvious I'm probably more further to the left than Bernie Sanders many people consider me right-wing many people consider me conservative just because of my position on immigration and I guess you could say I am an immigration skeptic for lack of a better term so everybody's lying about no one wants to do it deal with it and you know I mean look Japan it's not resistance it's no question of resistant policy it's an overt policy the government decides there's a number and nobody wants to have it they draw a number on a piece of paper and say this is how many immigrants were gonna accept this is how many refugees weren't accept this is how many migrant workers on a two-year visa we ran except there were targets established for all of them and yeah most times there's a little bit of flexibility where they'll kind of respond to the automotive industry saying they need some more workers or something there's some flexibility to the system but sure this is all legislated it's all Fiat what can I tell you so most cases you're talking about resistance is irrelevant where is it not irrelevant to bed where is it not irrelevant the Khmer Krom southern Vietnam the the forcible eradication of Cambodian people language culture literature music religion in southern Vietnam it's not even legal when I was last there and of all of this it was not even legal to own an audio CD with music in the Cambodian language in the Khmer Krom in southern Vietnam that a really active program of eradication and rewriting history and at least cultural genocide in the the Khmer Krom and a area that historically had been part of Cambodian for had Carter get buddy 4,000 of years but that the Vietnamese managed to annex an X is the word not conquer and that they were trying to Vietnam is huge huge issues so those issues really exist but they're not in the framework of this question your question number two we now go on to question number three question three is it possible to have some nations for example the United States Canada etc where race and ethnicity matters little or not at all while also having other countries like Japan where it matters much more and both modes are morally acceptable how would you feel if you were born and raised in India where the whole history of your culture the whole history of your continent had to do with being conquered by foreign powers and resisting them not to give a complete list but most notably including conquest by the Muslims from the north and conquest from the British Empire from the ocean by the South that's in all of your education and all of your sense of identity is that what it means to be Indian what it especially to be a Hindu in India is to resist this foreign encroachment it's a very different form of nationalism isn't it right it's a very different perspective in the world um when India achieved independence from the British Empire one of the biggest and most bitterly fought over debates was of what would happen to the anglo-indians to the ethnically white population I should have googled this how many millions of them that there were I forget there was a really really large population of white people in India some of them been there for a hundred years 150 years whatever they you know their families for a couple generations as part of the British Empire would they would they all just be forced to leave or what would all their property be seized would they be kicked out overnight would it be a holocaust type situation or what how was this risky kind of proceed because one way or another India did not want to be the Dominion of all white Elite of overlords who had taken up their status in society through through conquest conquest and colonialism and corporate rule by the British East India Company different perspective isn't it huh so is it possible to have some nations where race and ethnicity matters little or not at all walk down the streets in New York City who are the named after what what is New York named after where is Old York what language was spoken in New York City the problem is you're asking this from the perspective of a country where the process of genocide and colonialism is so far advanced that it's become invisible to you whereas in a country like India it advanced up to a certain point and then the tide of history was reversed
however you got a dress for the job you want not the job you have got the job of God is you to start this with a catchphrase that came up many times in my life in different fields of research not all tribal peoples are indigenous and not all indigenous people are tribal I can remember that catchphrase of mine of my own invention came as a kind of revelation and philosophical topic talking point to people working on anthropology in elite universities like Cambridge in Oxford to people of frankly doing linguistics in Cambodia people working on different kinds of tribal and indigenous peoples in northern Laos southwestern and Southeast Asia and then when I returned to Canada to work on Korean a jeep way as languages that same catchphrase came up again and again especially when talking about the politics of one group of indigenous people being posed against the others for example the conflict between the Cree and of the Blackfoot or the Cree and the snake Indians or what have you often there were contests over who was truly indigenous in a given area compared uh the Korean the den a it's even better example what land was really denied land and what was really creel and quite apart from the question of English and French colonialism I've got a question that came in as they can already know from the description to this video question that came in basically about white ethno-nationalism and I understand why this person sent me this question it's from a patreon supporter who will remain will definitely remain nameless except want to embarrass the guy he's gone out on a limb and asked me he potentially very provocative question and let's just say we've had a lot of discussion about censorship here on YouTube and on patreon lately it is likely it is it is inevitable that this video will be demonetized and it's likely it will be banned just because I am answering this question so it'll probably get the status where it's not visible outside the United States of America or it's not listed and restricted status I've had that happen ago peated Lee if you talk about real politics in a real way eh no matter how politically correct you are on YouTube you do face a certain kind of chilling effect so this will be great listed if not blacklisted but I appreciate his courage and asking the question I hope he appreciates my courage and giving you the answer awesome hmm you don't get a sense it's actually a pretty tight fitting suit but because I'm holding my phone up there what is the good balloons out alright I'm assuming you guys gonna see more of this suit I don't know that many changes of costume here at a Bella ciela Broadcasting Corporation alright maybe we'll find some more maybe we'll find some more menswear before we leave Germany maybe alright um okay he asks Heysel I'm a new patreon but I've seen many of your videos of the fast past four years on YouTube I wanted to ask your thoughts on ethnic nationalism and specifically if it fits into your definition of inherently racist so that's not a term I use I totally understand the question but I do not use the term inherently racist I don't think there is a meaningful distinction between something being intrinsically and extrinsic ly racist but I know what he means I know why he's asking he continues quote my background is that I am a white American but being quote unquote white is only part of my identity in as much as it is an objective description of my skin color and a genetic indication of my ancestry or to say it another way I don't consider the term white American to be meaningful at all in any kind of profound sense all the races and ethnicities can be just as American as me okay close quote pause do you think that would be your perspective if you were Mohawk Indian do you think a member of the Mohawk tribe right now probably living in Montreal most of them some of them still live on the reservation we just looked up the number about 24,000 of them in Canada do you think the Mohawks would say what you just said that anyone can be just as Canadian as them or anyone could be just as American as them how about the Ojibwe how about the Navajo do you see how your question is in a not too subtle way already missing a big fundamental point you feel that as a white American that Chinese people can be just as American as you a really oh yeah this ain't New England this is never going to be New England where you're living right it's never gonna be new Europe it's always gonna be old genocide so I think it's a very fundamental assumption here you're missing all right but hey thanks for your sure we're not done we're not done with the Q&A session yet he continues this is the beginning and not the end of our our discourse on this matter okay however so quote however in taking your advice and using sympathy as a philosophical tool I wonder to what extent physical appearance does have a real meaning in terms of what it means to be part of a particular nationality perhaps you have some insights you can share from your travel since my personal experience has been limited compared to yours like I've traveled so much in Asia I presume well let's travel a lot you're up to at this point um a couple questions I want to ask one quote would you or I ever be considered Chinese Japanese Kenyan etc by the native citizens if we were to live in and become citizens of their country what about our theoretical children with a Chinese Japanese or Kanyon wife okay so close quote wait so this is a meaningful question and I'm gonna give a relatively short answer I'm not gonna monologue for an hour about the differences between Chinese and Japanese culture what you you'll be an interesting video to a smaller reveal that is it's a real question you talk about and even within China you can talk about how Hong Kong is different from Yunnan you could talk about different regions how what's like to assimilate into the Dongbei and what it's like to be on a border area with India and what have you you know so I mean there's a lot to say just about China and Japan um but the problem here is the asymmetry the indigenous people of China are Chinese now they're not only Chinese there were other indigenous ethnic minority groups the vast majority of the indigenous people of China or Han Chinese now the indigenous people of Germany or German there are some other groups in Germany there's also called the sorbs the sorbs or an indigenous I think we're already in Germany they don't come from somewhere else they're just always been in Germany they're ours but the vast majority of the indigenous P of Germany are Germans we can continue Switzerland is multilingual and multi-ethnic but you can break down province by province in Switzerland who is indigenous so you see why I opened with this light motif not all indigenous people are tribal not all tribal people are indigenous it um how about where you're from how about the United States of America whose indigenous there how about your state how about your city what what language do they speak what religion did a half what was there what was their style of dress what was their system of government what was their political history before you took it all away from them I'm sorry it's not the same I understand why I asked the question and it's a fascinating question if I could just answer the question of what is it like to be an immigrants in China or Japan or several other examples that either know directly or some stand directly through friends or through research and whatever sure it's fascinating but this is never going to be the same for continents like North America and Australia where the the scenario we're talking about is all built on a bedrock of genocide and not even cultural genocide AB the solut genocide I'll come back to that distinction that there's cultural genocide and there's just outright genocide that these are two different things when I lived in Laos I learned to speak the language and it was not my top priority this is an answer your question directly it's not a digression when I was in Laos had many other priorities including learning an ancient language called Palli so learning Lao was not the main thing I was working on but I did I did put some time and effort into learning Lao and toward the end of my time there when the government had already threatened to kill me and excelled me from the country putting an abrupt end to my humanitarian work and they really the threat to kill me went on and on they were there were details of the threats to murder me you know my parents would never find my body it would be disposed of but there's such and such conditions and so on and so forth and my co-workers were interrogated by the Communist Party and had to make confessions for their failure to report me as the thought-criminal of the Communist Party this kind of thing so it was a big event bringing abrupt end to my research humanitarian work and language study in Laos and at that late stage I had the the touching and unexpected experience of lotion people referring to me in allow as lotion and one old woman said of me she was sings reassuringly to a middle-aged lotion man she said don't worry he's a white Lau like he's white but he's one of us he's white but he's lotion which stunned me I'd never thought of that possibility before that I would be accepted as lotion I'm also I'm big I'm six foot three six or three in the morning six foot two and a half he thought this time of day now okay oh look yeah that was stunning to me and I'd never thought of it lotion culture is quite accepting outsiders and the flip side of that was what had happened to me several times before that were people attacking me and denouncing me for being lotion with hatred Thai people Thai people hating me for being they didn't use the term of white loud I think maybe one of them did I think one of them said I was a white level but but they mostly just attacking us for being lotion and it's real obvious that I'm that I'm in no sense ethnically lotion so there are some ethnic groups in Asia that are still recruiting put it that way there were some it's not even ethnic groups there are some nationalities that's really the term to use your lotion is really a nationality and not just an ethnic group not going to get into it and there are some that consider themselves closed to outsiders and there are some that are halfway in between and you know but I remember I got a lot of angels with a guy in Mongolia and his experience and Mongolian culture guests seemed to be it seemed to be pretty open to accepting him if he converted to an accepted Mongolian buddhism and if he drank Mongolian liquor with them and so few other things like this then they were pretty open to him being kind of taken on board but Japanese culture is famous the other way that it does you know you can never be Japanese enough if you weren't a hundred percent from there even if you are ethnically Japanese but you were born in Brazil that's a there's a huge body of scholarly literature on that ethnically Japanese people who migrated to Brazil and migrated back again and they're never accepted they're always treated as foreigners there are many scenarios like this so different answers during different scenarios number two quote if theoretically half of the citizens of China Japan or Kenya any of these countries if half the citizens of China let's say were white Middle Eastern or Mexican ie they were some other nationality woody resistance to that from the native citizens be morally right or wrong in your opinion it's happening right now within China Google sins yung Google Tibet Google any of the instances within China of the Han Chinese systematically eradicating the indigenous people and population and step one is by moving in Han Chinese to become the majority so the the very intentional erasure of Tibetan culture the very intentional erasure of cynjohn cultures is ongoing and it's it's a form of relatively slow motion and genteel cultural genocide not outright genocide again in issue we have to come back to you again and again so what what do you mean resistance right I mean this opens up all kinds of questions but this is not hypothetical this is actual as soon as you get into you know a little kind of deeper level of knowledge of any of these places I would absolutely assume certainly within within Africa within Kenya there are some really really shocking ethnic conflicts within Kenya I know this much about it so and so forth however look what do you mean by resistance every country in the world simply dictates how many immigrants they're in accept and how many they're gonna reject it's called immigration policy unfortunately in 2018 we live in a period of time when everything the left-wing says about immigration policy is [ __ ] everything the right-wing says about immigration policy is [ __ ] and everything that is said by the moderates at every gradation in the middle is dishonest and misleading [ __ ] from my perspective immigration policy whether we're talking about refugees illegal immigration or legal licit mainstream immigration did you're a immigration we could say um all of it it's in a black box where nobody is really allowed to discuss what the facts are or what the options are or what we're gonna do moving forward and although in many ways it's obvious I'm probably more further to the left than Bernie Sanders many people consider me right-wing many people consider me conservative just because of my position on immigration and I guess you could say I am an immigration skeptic for lack of a better term so everybody's lying about no one wants to do it deal with it and you know I mean look Japan it's not resistance it's no question of resistant policy it's an overt policy the government decides there's a number and nobody wants to have it they draw a number on a piece of paper and say this is how many immigrants were gonna accept this is how many refugees weren't accept this is how many migrant workers on a two-year visa we ran except there were targets established for all of them and yeah most times there's a little bit of flexibility where they'll kind of respond to the automotive industry saying they need some more workers or something there's some flexibility to the system but sure this is all legislated it's all Fiat what can I tell you so most cases you're talking about resistance is irrelevant where is it not irrelevant to bed where is it not irrelevant the Khmer Krom southern Vietnam the the forcible eradication of Cambodian people language culture literature music religion in southern Vietnam it's not even legal when I was last there and of all of this it was not even legal to own an audio CD with music in the Cambodian language in the Khmer Krom in southern Vietnam that a really active program of eradication and rewriting history and at least cultural genocide in the the Khmer Krom and a area that historically had been part of Cambodian for had Carter get buddy 4,000 of years but that the Vietnamese managed to annex an X is the word not conquer and that they were trying to Vietnam is huge huge issues so those issues really exist but they're not in the framework of this question your question number two we now go on to question number three question three is it possible to have some nations for example the United States Canada etc where race and ethnicity matters little or not at all while also having other countries like Japan where it matters much more and both modes are morally acceptable how would you feel if you were born and raised in India where the whole history of your culture the whole history of your continent had to do with being conquered by foreign powers and resisting them not to give a complete list but most notably including conquest by the Muslims from the north and conquest from the British Empire from the ocean by the South that's in all of your education and all of your sense of identity is that what it means to be Indian what it especially to be a Hindu in India is to resist this foreign encroachment it's a very different form of nationalism isn't it right it's a very different perspective in the world um when India achieved independence from the British Empire one of the biggest and most bitterly fought over debates was of what would happen to the anglo-indians to the ethnically white population I should have googled this how many millions of them that there were I forget there was a really really large population of white people in India some of them been there for a hundred years 150 years whatever they you know their families for a couple generations as part of the British Empire would they would they all just be forced to leave or what would all their property be seized would they be kicked out overnight would it be a holocaust type situation or what how was this risky kind of proceed because one way or another India did not want to be the Dominion of all white Elite of overlords who had taken up their status in society through through conquest conquest and colonialism and corporate rule by the British East India Company different perspective isn't it huh so is it possible to have some nations where race and ethnicity matters little or not at all walk down the streets in New York City who are the named after what what is New York named after where is Old York what language was spoken in New York City the problem is you're asking this from the perspective of a country where the process of genocide and colonialism is so far advanced that it's become invisible to you whereas in a country like India it advanced up to a certain point and then the tide of history was reversed