We Can Change the Game: Freelee, Durianrider & HHV (Happy, Healthy Vegan).
21 July 2016 [link youtube]
Youtube Automatic Transcription
with our words and our deeds we show
each other what's ideal we show each other what's the minimum standard we're expected to live up to and we show each other what's normal also in many ways the most worrying aspect of the fame of people like freely and durianrider is precisely that they gave us a corrosive sense of what is normal on the internet on our part of the internet within so-called vegan activism within the digital vegan demi-monde whatever you want to say you've heard me state those concerns in the past you've heard me say that evil is not what happens when evil people do evil things it's what happens when good people sit idly by and do nothing okay today is the day that freely and during writer got around to deleting the vegan cheetahs channel to my knowledge the actual complaints against his channel were filed by freely and by vegan Ava and the nature of the complaint did state this to Charles he received a receipt so to speak he received the form letting him know the nature of the complaint and who filed it against him I have concerns not just about freely and durianrider i also have concerns about charles and what he's been doing with his content this video does not exist for me to state my unqualified support for the vegan cheetah because firstly he is my friend but i don't believe that friendship is a relationship of unqualified support I believe that friendship is a relationship of qualified support we support our friends with qualifications with concerns with questions with doubts and it's very important that we retain the ability to discuss those questions as questions a question is different from an accusation a question is different from defamation a question is different from jumping to a conclusion making a video slandering someone or just blackening their character assuming the worst about them filling in the blanks and then afterwards waiting for them to respond after you said that the most outrageous thing possible okay even from what I've just said now I think it will be clear to you that my concerns are not only about Harley and freely many of the people who are critics of Harley and freely have ended up reproducing some of the worst aspects of the Harley and freely freak show I have recently seen I think both Joe vegan and cheetah refer to some other vegans here on YouTube vegan personalities as white supremacists and I have never seen them produce any evidence any arguments you know any quotation from those people that indicates that there there even a little bit racist let alone that they're white supremacists there is no standard for what's acceptable or unacceptable but i have to tell you from my perspective that is unacceptable and i made videos in the past dealing with the fact that there were false accusations against bite size vegan bite size vegan was falsely accused of being a racist and a white supremacist and there was a whole controversy surrounding it and meanwhile as a point of the video there are vegans here on youtube who really are white supremacist who really are racists in some cases who really are nazis who openly glorify adolf hitler and there's an implicit choice in blackening someone's character who is not racist or who wears really no evidence of the being white supremacist as opposed to tackling actual white supremacist so those are all issues for those who have been fans much everyone those are all things have spoken about before and simply to be honest I assumed I would speak about them again with cheetah I simply have no reason to make a video attacking him denouncing him or assuming the worst about him what i would do is talk to him about it you know directly by email and you know he and I make podcast together we will record videos together I Steve a sort of think he and I could talk about probably be a very interesting conversation and share with his viewers share with people like you that's interesting for everyone involved and so you see already even where there's a serious difference of opinion there's the possibility of really doing something productive of that really doing something productive working with that difference of opinion if we can just appreciate the difference between a question and an accusation what we're going through the big picture here on the small screen on YouTube what we're going through is a process of disambiguation the rules by which the game were played were ambiguous to all the players is it acceptable or unacceptable for durianrider to insult my mom to doc's me I don't know who decides we decide all of us right here right now that's why I made this big deal out of saying you know evil is what happens when good people stand by and do nothing in Middle Eastern culture in North Africa in in the parts of the Middle East I've had contact with to insult someones mother like that is a big deal uh it leads to trouble insulting someone's month away during writers old mother I'm not Middle Eastern I'm not Italian Italians also can get very very angry and violent if you upset their mother I didn't respond that way I don't think that's anywhere near the most serious a question that's been raised by during medical but it's still a question it still is a question daxing people bringing their mom into it bringing their wife into it bringing their kid into it does that cross the line who decides you decide we decide and some of you guys felt I was being unfair in calling out Ali Tabrizi because Ali tabrizi was a friend of mine he was someone who knew me well enough even though we're not the closest friends he was a close enough friend to know that the accusation against me were a hundred percent false so if those accusations are made against somebody you know where you know it's a lie you know it's a malicious lie you know the threats of violence are backed up by nothing they were never based on a sincere concern for the well-being or safety of the women of the festival there was no excuse when you know the nature of the evil the motivation for it you know the outcomes you know the harm its gonna do to me the harm its gonna do to us as a little vegan demi-monde the long-term harm it could do to veganism itself what does it mean for you for me for us if you sit by and do nothing I still think that's an important question and i still think everyone has to go through this process of disambiguation well you can't sit in the fence anymore we've seen that now I mean you know a happy healthy vegan so many channel though vegan gains himself so many people who would have been more comfortable sitting on the fence remaining vague remaining non-committal or trying to remain friends with both sides so many people sooner or later were forced to take a stand we're forced to make it unambiguously clear here's the line here's where I draw the line here's where we should draw the line and here's how you've crossed that now again this is another case with there's no real debate nobody is debating whether or not durianrider and freely have crossed the line numerous times before and yet again now nobody really thought it was acceptable for durianrider to accuse me of being a sexual predator say he was going to beat me up it says these things were so outrageous they're ridiculous nobody thinks it's acceptable for you know cheetahs channel to be deleted these things are not debatable but what's interesting to me is that actually at the same time some of the things that happy healthy vegan has just been trying to debate some of the questions raised by cheetahs own conduct Amazo channel i think they are debatable i think their debates worth having i think that you know calling someone a white supremacist III think that's defamation of a very serious kind and how does it compare you know okay so bringing in someone's mom someone's wife or daughter you know as opposed to defaming them as a white supremacist word again to my knowledge there's no substance to that and there was no care taken to make a case or prove it or what have you I think those still are debates worth having I think there are ambiguities here that are really worth being concerned about on all sides so for me that makes this a much more dynamic and peculiar situation than it might otherwise be I'm concerned that so few of my fellow vegans are interested in the facts are interested in doing the right thing for the right reasons and that so many of my fellow vegans are simply interested in supporting their friends because you're friends with them are so interested in attacking someone simply because you consider them your enemy that's just incompatible with politics period they're not politically sophisticated attitudes these are not workable useful attitudes how is it that so many people think that I exposed private emails between myself and unnatural vegan where is there even one video here on YouTube of me putting up private emails between us she put up one email in one video her own her own email and she reported correctly that when she asked for my permission to post private emails I said no because I think that's immoral and inappropriate and counterproductive how is it that so many people think I posted a private emails to myself and Ann began in that dispute I never did and it was completely privacy I never been any public statement but I never should have but she posted publicly male she took my public correspondence and made long videos denouncing me and installed in my character nobody cared nobody was interested in the facts of the matter it was so easy for the same people who supposedly supported me because it was the right thing to do for the right reasons to turn around on a dime and condemn me and vilify me because of some complete that in many cases just obviously counter contrary to the facts but nobody was interested in the facts you know and I mean how many times have we seen the audience or large parts the audience turn on Charles turn on cheetah because he's a homophobe because he's racist because he's transphobic whatever the cause of the moment is I've got to tell you I think the way out of that is what I've already covered in this video that short but way too long I think you've really got to develop the discipline of asking a question in the form of a question not an accusation not a denunciation of someone's character now I'm not really that interested but if your question is if your question really is Charles how do you feel about transgender people you could ask that question that could be a conversation in a podcast with a guy he puts in so many hours answering questions like that on you now on YouTube he wouldn't be thrown by that or offended by it he wouldn't be hostile or defend this is nothing you know any of these other people you know there's so many people who denounced me over things that could have just been questions well you could have just asked and I've seen other people making videos defending me saying look I know that's not true enough situation because I asked him and he answered and we talked about people who just asked me you know um I don't know man I mean I've said so many times I'm worried about the future of this medium I'm worried about digital veganism obviously I'm worried about the the future prospects of veganism proper but I've never been more worried about the short term future I've never been more worried about the next six weeks or the next six months what does it mean to be a good person in the 21st century what does it mean to have personal integrity what does it mean to have honor and dignity yourself and what does it mean to treat other people with honor and dignity even if you disagree with them even if in some sense they're your enemies
each other what's ideal we show each other what's the minimum standard we're expected to live up to and we show each other what's normal also in many ways the most worrying aspect of the fame of people like freely and durianrider is precisely that they gave us a corrosive sense of what is normal on the internet on our part of the internet within so-called vegan activism within the digital vegan demi-monde whatever you want to say you've heard me state those concerns in the past you've heard me say that evil is not what happens when evil people do evil things it's what happens when good people sit idly by and do nothing okay today is the day that freely and during writer got around to deleting the vegan cheetahs channel to my knowledge the actual complaints against his channel were filed by freely and by vegan Ava and the nature of the complaint did state this to Charles he received a receipt so to speak he received the form letting him know the nature of the complaint and who filed it against him I have concerns not just about freely and durianrider i also have concerns about charles and what he's been doing with his content this video does not exist for me to state my unqualified support for the vegan cheetah because firstly he is my friend but i don't believe that friendship is a relationship of unqualified support I believe that friendship is a relationship of qualified support we support our friends with qualifications with concerns with questions with doubts and it's very important that we retain the ability to discuss those questions as questions a question is different from an accusation a question is different from defamation a question is different from jumping to a conclusion making a video slandering someone or just blackening their character assuming the worst about them filling in the blanks and then afterwards waiting for them to respond after you said that the most outrageous thing possible okay even from what I've just said now I think it will be clear to you that my concerns are not only about Harley and freely many of the people who are critics of Harley and freely have ended up reproducing some of the worst aspects of the Harley and freely freak show I have recently seen I think both Joe vegan and cheetah refer to some other vegans here on YouTube vegan personalities as white supremacists and I have never seen them produce any evidence any arguments you know any quotation from those people that indicates that there there even a little bit racist let alone that they're white supremacists there is no standard for what's acceptable or unacceptable but i have to tell you from my perspective that is unacceptable and i made videos in the past dealing with the fact that there were false accusations against bite size vegan bite size vegan was falsely accused of being a racist and a white supremacist and there was a whole controversy surrounding it and meanwhile as a point of the video there are vegans here on youtube who really are white supremacist who really are racists in some cases who really are nazis who openly glorify adolf hitler and there's an implicit choice in blackening someone's character who is not racist or who wears really no evidence of the being white supremacist as opposed to tackling actual white supremacist so those are all issues for those who have been fans much everyone those are all things have spoken about before and simply to be honest I assumed I would speak about them again with cheetah I simply have no reason to make a video attacking him denouncing him or assuming the worst about him what i would do is talk to him about it you know directly by email and you know he and I make podcast together we will record videos together I Steve a sort of think he and I could talk about probably be a very interesting conversation and share with his viewers share with people like you that's interesting for everyone involved and so you see already even where there's a serious difference of opinion there's the possibility of really doing something productive of that really doing something productive working with that difference of opinion if we can just appreciate the difference between a question and an accusation what we're going through the big picture here on the small screen on YouTube what we're going through is a process of disambiguation the rules by which the game were played were ambiguous to all the players is it acceptable or unacceptable for durianrider to insult my mom to doc's me I don't know who decides we decide all of us right here right now that's why I made this big deal out of saying you know evil is what happens when good people stand by and do nothing in Middle Eastern culture in North Africa in in the parts of the Middle East I've had contact with to insult someones mother like that is a big deal uh it leads to trouble insulting someone's month away during writers old mother I'm not Middle Eastern I'm not Italian Italians also can get very very angry and violent if you upset their mother I didn't respond that way I don't think that's anywhere near the most serious a question that's been raised by during medical but it's still a question it still is a question daxing people bringing their mom into it bringing their wife into it bringing their kid into it does that cross the line who decides you decide we decide and some of you guys felt I was being unfair in calling out Ali Tabrizi because Ali tabrizi was a friend of mine he was someone who knew me well enough even though we're not the closest friends he was a close enough friend to know that the accusation against me were a hundred percent false so if those accusations are made against somebody you know where you know it's a lie you know it's a malicious lie you know the threats of violence are backed up by nothing they were never based on a sincere concern for the well-being or safety of the women of the festival there was no excuse when you know the nature of the evil the motivation for it you know the outcomes you know the harm its gonna do to me the harm its gonna do to us as a little vegan demi-monde the long-term harm it could do to veganism itself what does it mean for you for me for us if you sit by and do nothing I still think that's an important question and i still think everyone has to go through this process of disambiguation well you can't sit in the fence anymore we've seen that now I mean you know a happy healthy vegan so many channel though vegan gains himself so many people who would have been more comfortable sitting on the fence remaining vague remaining non-committal or trying to remain friends with both sides so many people sooner or later were forced to take a stand we're forced to make it unambiguously clear here's the line here's where I draw the line here's where we should draw the line and here's how you've crossed that now again this is another case with there's no real debate nobody is debating whether or not durianrider and freely have crossed the line numerous times before and yet again now nobody really thought it was acceptable for durianrider to accuse me of being a sexual predator say he was going to beat me up it says these things were so outrageous they're ridiculous nobody thinks it's acceptable for you know cheetahs channel to be deleted these things are not debatable but what's interesting to me is that actually at the same time some of the things that happy healthy vegan has just been trying to debate some of the questions raised by cheetahs own conduct Amazo channel i think they are debatable i think their debates worth having i think that you know calling someone a white supremacist III think that's defamation of a very serious kind and how does it compare you know okay so bringing in someone's mom someone's wife or daughter you know as opposed to defaming them as a white supremacist word again to my knowledge there's no substance to that and there was no care taken to make a case or prove it or what have you I think those still are debates worth having I think there are ambiguities here that are really worth being concerned about on all sides so for me that makes this a much more dynamic and peculiar situation than it might otherwise be I'm concerned that so few of my fellow vegans are interested in the facts are interested in doing the right thing for the right reasons and that so many of my fellow vegans are simply interested in supporting their friends because you're friends with them are so interested in attacking someone simply because you consider them your enemy that's just incompatible with politics period they're not politically sophisticated attitudes these are not workable useful attitudes how is it that so many people think that I exposed private emails between myself and unnatural vegan where is there even one video here on YouTube of me putting up private emails between us she put up one email in one video her own her own email and she reported correctly that when she asked for my permission to post private emails I said no because I think that's immoral and inappropriate and counterproductive how is it that so many people think I posted a private emails to myself and Ann began in that dispute I never did and it was completely privacy I never been any public statement but I never should have but she posted publicly male she took my public correspondence and made long videos denouncing me and installed in my character nobody cared nobody was interested in the facts of the matter it was so easy for the same people who supposedly supported me because it was the right thing to do for the right reasons to turn around on a dime and condemn me and vilify me because of some complete that in many cases just obviously counter contrary to the facts but nobody was interested in the facts you know and I mean how many times have we seen the audience or large parts the audience turn on Charles turn on cheetah because he's a homophobe because he's racist because he's transphobic whatever the cause of the moment is I've got to tell you I think the way out of that is what I've already covered in this video that short but way too long I think you've really got to develop the discipline of asking a question in the form of a question not an accusation not a denunciation of someone's character now I'm not really that interested but if your question is if your question really is Charles how do you feel about transgender people you could ask that question that could be a conversation in a podcast with a guy he puts in so many hours answering questions like that on you now on YouTube he wouldn't be thrown by that or offended by it he wouldn't be hostile or defend this is nothing you know any of these other people you know there's so many people who denounced me over things that could have just been questions well you could have just asked and I've seen other people making videos defending me saying look I know that's not true enough situation because I asked him and he answered and we talked about people who just asked me you know um I don't know man I mean I've said so many times I'm worried about the future of this medium I'm worried about digital veganism obviously I'm worried about the the future prospects of veganism proper but I've never been more worried about the short term future I've never been more worried about the next six weeks or the next six months what does it mean to be a good person in the 21st century what does it mean to have personal integrity what does it mean to have honor and dignity yourself and what does it mean to treat other people with honor and dignity even if you disagree with them even if in some sense they're your enemies