Vegans on Youtube Talking About Veganism on Youtube

people say chase your dream inaudible
drinks are equally valid it's not and you know and there is a real difference between being a stripper who's paying her way through college and dropping out of college to be a stripper it's not the same like that's the other thing i'm not anti vacation like if you want to go to Thailand for three months and it's a vacation okay it's just a vacation but a vacation by definition is not real life it doesn't solve real problems as a vacation you can do that maybe you'll learn something maybe it'll move you emotionally deeply to see the pyramids or to live in a log cabin fine I'm happy for you but you are not saving the world and [ __ ] you if you're going to come on YouTube and say that saving the world and when your vacation is over you go back to Chicago Chicago is still [ __ ] up and apart from the gang violence and the poverty the same Factory is burning coal and the same powerplant is generating power and the same slaughterhouse is killing a million pigs nothing has changed you haven't changed the world you've engaged in a steepest fantasy instead of actually changing the world to actual activism or actual engagement you know the problem is a lot easier to talk about from the solution what is the solution the solution is not a bunch of boring professors giving lectures nobody wants to hear right it's it's it's a wonder why some of the biggest you know um social media personalities sometimes are some of the most I don't know uneducated blue-collar type of people and I guess if you're making as much money as you make it those elite levels the incentive to go back to the school may not be there as much but yeah well money money is part of it and you know dumb luck is part of it like who makes that money is partly luck but I mean another thing is is contra distinction which is a fancy word for not being exactly the same as your competition like if you and I worked really hard to make a youtube channel that's identical to CNN like in every way we have the desk we have the logo you do exactly same things in it's not going to be a big hit because CNN already exists people aren't looking for that you know and I think I mean what you're mentioning like the very kind of uneducated rough people seeming to be the most popular certain certain type of person emerging as a star on YouTube I think that's probably because those the people who are not on CNN you know what's that contrast and you know unfortunately also I mean all politically like the crazy conspiracy theories and like kind of the worst of the worst will the neo-nazis and all this other stuff that's that's what's popular on YouTube also because that's what you can't get on mainstream radio and mr. so you don't did there's good and bad to that but I mean yeah an exciting thing is though CNN is actually not doing that well yeah yeah they're keeping above water but they're not flourishing let's say i would estimate just by what my dad tells me CNN maybe gets maybe 500,000 nightly viewers for prime time there are youtubers that get 1 million views a video of log you know so it just shows you how how much media in general is changing and that's it's 10 years from now it may look a lot different you know you may see more traditional media outlets using youtube or streaming services on the internet you know it's it's exciting it's scary well I agree that's so two sources and that you know Jenk Uighur the guy already mentioned Jenk from The Young Turks he's talking about that constantly and he knows the stats he's always like oh it's so many million for CNN and so many million for Fox News and also but like respected publications like the Los Angeles Times or something like he'll point out like the number of people who see a YouTube video is way more than who read some article from Los Angeles time they say oh there are a lot of contrast to make there the other problem though is the nature of the content production right so like Genk Uighur his show all he does is sit on his ass and make sarcastic remarks about the news he doesn't go to Cambodia and interview people he doesn't go to Afghanistan and do research he doesn't do any original research of any kind ever you know so that's a problem because you know the LA Times I don't know they may not be great I don't live in Los Angeles and I read the LA Times but like a newspaper like that it may have a smaller audience but they are actually going and doing the original research the original work you know this is a huge fundamental difference in terms of production and I think about that all the time too because well you know look a lot of my friends you know and my ex-wife and so a lot of people i know have PhDs and our university professors are in that kind of world they put all this time and money into going to an academic conference where nobody wants to hear their paper you know they prepare a paper maybe they publish the vapor nobody [ __ ] reads it and then like you fly around the world they fly to london england and like literally six people are in the audience to hear their their paper they spent all this money to fly around the world deliver and they stand there and you know it's it's tragic and a lot of them a lot of them are psychologically [ __ ] up about it like for real and you can understand why like if you do that for years you get bitter you get angry you feel unappreciated you feel like your life is wasted and like you know the stuff i talk about the stuff i care about it's not popular but like you know more than 300 people clicked on my my essay in just a couple of days may i say about mass murder in the year nineteen twenty in this small town small town on the border between russia and china and japan you know now you know that's it in just a couple of days like 300 people clicked on it I don't know more than 600 people watch the YouTube video if anyone's ever interested they can google it they can find it like there are levels to the meaninglessness of life there's no money in any of this there's no money either way but yeah that's the other sense so like how meaningless is your life compared to that University professor going to a conference so yeah the bigger issue that I would kind of raise just from hearing you you know this conversation is that the death of print media and even the death of literacy the way you know we've known it in the past um you and I are two different very different interested individuals i would consider you very literate i am at best average lee literate okay I can present myself decently and I can write ok but not to the extent of even my father um and so we were talking about how the garbage content kind of is the most popular whereas you have a institution like the New York top LA times it may have a very small base but they actually do real work and they have certain standards they live by I would say that is another result of the the death of print media the death of literacy especially in America um and this is kind of a future we live in where everything is most information I would I'm gonna make the argument is consumed through video um and you have the influence of people's looks you have the influence of money you have the influence of you know what i would call celebrity culture even even our social media scale you know the the people that kind of have the connections and do the right collabs um rise to the top um it is good to see you know I would consider bite size vegan a relatively more literate person than you know a literate representation of vegans um even I know we've kind of you know discussed some of the boring nature of this content but um for vegan at times you know definitely seems to be a little bit above average intelligently academically so um it's encouraging but I think just for the fact that I myself personally I don't read unless I have to fabric I have to read a text book I'll read but I don't really read much or come in jail I'm in jail I've read a lot of books in jail but um I remember you said in a video that it's very important um one of the most important things about going to school going to college university is that you start developing your writing skills in your essay skills and I would say even in the last six months being back in school I have been able to express myself much more effectively um in and really more directly as a result of writing papers getting back into that kind of mindset if you don't do that and you know you get out of high school you don't go to college and you you know blow up on social media and your ebooks are right I you know there's there's an element of being illiterate there so what did what do you think about that talk about yeah well [ __ ] it emits a deep topic and you know for sure there are a lot of examples I'll just say like in my own life the first University I went to was University of Toronto and it was garbage it was so bad and when I came out of that like I really felt like nobody gains anything from University and I met an Australian guy who did not go to university he was one of those guys like he went for like two weeks and dropped out so he did he did show up like he went at the beginning and it was probably because his parents had enough money for him to just kind of like he had in here yeah he inherited money from a grandparent so he could just kind of waste his life to some extent and meeting and talking to that guy who was not born dumb that was the first time like looking into his eyes and my really appreciating how ignorant he was and how incapable he was of educating himself I was like holy [ __ ] this guy would actually benefit from a university education well and let it was just for me it was like recognizing like you know what my own experience universe may have been really negative but actually this is important some ways and the type of repetition you're talking about if putting together an essay even if it's a crap SI even if it's about something you're not really rested in having some repeat experience with that programmatic reading research etc yeah when I when I look at a high school dropout like test beg you know she dropped out of high school to chase the YouTube not even university yeah she could benefit from university education healthy and happy 96 I think I don't know where she's from where she's from the United States or what I didn't would maybe don't know where she hangs out with freely and during writer in person so she's lately she's been living in Australia but I don't know I don't know where she's from but yeah like healthy and happy 96 she dropped out of college to do this and it's like yeah you know what you're dumb and you're gonna stay dumb chasing your dream because your dream is to be a dumb [ __ ] and have people send you fan mail because you're in your bikini in your workout gear and promoting your lifestyle you know people say chase your dream thoughtful drinks are equally valid it's not and you know and there is a real difference between being a stripper who's paying her way through college and dropping out of college to be a stripper it's not the same yeah I guess I'll and that part of the discussion on the fact that um I think it is meaningful for vegans especially on YouTube to really consider the fact that are um you know and I'm not trying to bash anybody not trying to beat a dead horse though but our leaders are at least online and the people that represent vegans online um a lot of them are illiterate and a lot of them either use money or fame or connections to rise the top the way they do and that's not just in the big in YouTube scene that's in media in general so I think it's very interesting and I think it is relevant to at least recognize that because i myself you know i was encouraged by certain people my family by your channel to maybe think about that and go back to school be like you know uh would it benefit me and benefit my audience online if i were in school you know and even just kind of I kind of document the experience you know what I mean a little bit i talk about it um so that's kind of like where I'm at is just that I don't want to be 10 years from now all I really have is my fleeting social media career um if that ever were to happen and you know nothing else really you know it's not enough it's not meaningful enough to me I i do want to think of myself as an educated you know citizen and I like you know don't get me wrong I like to produce garbage content you know I mean I still like control i still like that i think that has a place for entertainment purposes yeah and we look I was just gonna say um you know I did see the conversation out with your brother in which you guys shouted out some ideas for new things you want to do channel and I actually do think those are good ideas like I just say I'm not a snob like I think all kinds of content should exist like you know some of your ideas were more wacky and comedic I think that's great and you know it's not what I think I can contribute to and like I don't think workout videos are bad or something I just don't think I'm the guy to do it you know it's a totally different thing to think like you know I mean like there's no point in me pretending to be too pretending to you there's no point in me pretending to be durianrider either look there's no point am I trying to reproduce that but it doesn't mean I think like you know nobody should do workout videos or something you know like uh I think I think that's fine all kinds of different people have a different voice you know to bring to it and that's and that's cool and you know you'll find your audience and you'll find your voice and you know your audience will find you and that's that's part of the part of the process but look this this broader question you've raised what's you know the problem is a lot easier to talk about in the solution like okay so like complete idiots are the most prominent voices for veganism right now I checked so like a guy who's not a complete idiot but do I also don't really like Gary Francie on a if you check his youtube channel he has like a whole bunch of audio only uploads more like a podcast up well and they got like 35 views each 56 views yeah like nobody gives a [ __ ] and like even if you think about his most popular speeches that are normally like hosted on someone else's channel it promoted them a bit like okay so over a couple of years it got a hundred thousand views it's still you know like it's not even really reaching the the vegan audience and I can understand that it's boring like it's boring and pedantic and it's not really useful and it's not really relevant to people's lives right like so even if it's intelligent in some sense like he's a former University law professor or whatever you know like it's it's a step up from freely enduring wider in some ways but what is the solution the solution is not a bunch of boring professors giving lectures nobody wants to hear right I did it's it's really not easy to see a solution and the same like I talked about this especially with henna and Jason like you know what is the solution to the Thai fruit festival I think it's to have a better or festival somewhere I don't know you know I don't know where I can't host it I'm not in a position to host a you know an international festival and like the irony is that I'm going to be back in Thailand in just one month I could go to Chiang Mai I could in terms of the timing I could literally attend the next typhoon festival in terms of when I would be in Thailand and when I would have to leave Thailand to go to China I could go right like I don't know does anyone want to beat me up or get me killed if I go to check for wondering how I want to be warm welcome you'd really get youtubers that are saying biking eating fruit is the only way and they have the spiritual heir to them and they're like these big gurus so that's why we see all the [ __ ] clones you know what I'm saying because people latch onto that ship what these people have made us used to is really kind of the Freak Show aspect of veganism and I think that's why non vegans are drawn to and watch people like freely is that it seems so outrageous everything about it you know like it's not just a vegan it's 30 bananas a day it's the most outrageous the most ridiculous diet that's why it gets covered newspapers it's can you believe it and you know she's not like a well-balanced person she's an extreme scrawny person who's denouncing medical doctors who doesn't believe in vaccines you know there's an extreme element to it there's a freakshow element to it that is what has drawn a larger audience to her because I think a very significant percentage of reviewers are not vegan they're people were drawn to the entertainment value of that or what have you but I mean the question you're asking really is what comes after the freak show like okay like the Freak Show either it grows and grows until it reaches its its natural limit which I don't know it could be as big as Oprah could be I don't know what's what's the maximum size for this because you know Oprah there's nothing really interesting about Oprah I mean how did she get such a big following really you know um so you know I don't know maybe freely becomes as big as Oprah but you know the freakshow thing is kind of going one way what's the alternative to the freakshow and definitely vegan gains may change but for him to the whole you know he claims he's a psychopath and all this kind of horse [ __ ] you know there was definitely a freakshow element to that also and you know would he start a fistfight with other bodybuilders these kinds of things that we know you know that's it well I think it leads nowhere I mean you know for me that's easy to say but I mean it's it's definitely formed a kind of generations view of what veganism is are supposed to be back in two thousand one I made a couple videos talking about this the main idea dominating people's minds it was called a narco primitivism that had really different weird implications we're really was the vision of being not just against industrialized agriculture but against industry period you know this back to the land a primitive ecology and you know i just mentioned like at that time there were a lot of really stupid laws and resolutions being passed by the united nations and national governments laws that were not really going to help the environment but pretended to it was partly a reaction to that is saying know that that won't make a difference that won't save the environment but here's what we'll going and living in a wood cabin and you know refusing to be part the industrialized society is kind of hyper hyper primitive back-to-the-land movement so you know and that's also [ __ ] I mean that's also a freak show and that's also like most most people be drawn to that because it's so extreme and it's so edgy and it can't really be a meaningful part of anyone's life and so on so yeah um it fits very well in our capitalistic society you know I think if anything that's what we have going for us is that veganism is very much um it has the potential to be a real you know consumer kind of activity um well i agree i think that's a strength so you want to say more say more now you know I just as I think the incentive to create vegan products with the f overall ethical message of it um and create products that people are actually gonna want look at lush you know lush yeah so pretty successful company and you have like these huge vegan youtubers um are you familiar with um uh what's your name nuh mony pneumonia frost manami frost manami frost I don't know where no tattoos all over she's kind of like us well she happens to be vegan it's not a vegan channel though it's a makeup channel you know you could say very vain but she happened to be vegan you know when promotes these amazing consumer products like lush um so I think you know all right look as ridiculous to go you know the 2001 scene to go back to the you know primitive living on the land line so that's right well no but but as a vacant look okay I agree with you on several levels last thing you said I agree with you except that it can be a good vacation like that's the other thing i'm not anti vacation like if you want to go to Thailand for three months and it's a vacation okay it's just a vacation if you want to live in a wooden hut for three months and live you know in a primitive life and washer or laundry in the river that's fine as a vacation but a vacation by definition is not real life it doesn't solve real problems and like to me that's very meaningful you like whatever let's say you come from Chicago Chicago is [ __ ] up whatever poverty gang violence all kinds of problem they're probably also nice things but Chicago is not my point but you know you can go on vacation from Chicago for three months whether you go to Thailand or you go to Egypt and see the pyramids or you go and live in a log cabin and return to a primitive ecologically sustainable lifestyle as a vacation you can do that maybe you'll learn something maybe it'll move you emotionally deeply to see the pyramids or to live in a log cabin fine I'm happy for you but you are not saving the world and [ __ ] you if you're going to come on YouTube and say that saving the world and when your vacation is over you go back to the Chicago Chicago is still [ __ ] up and apart from the gang violence and the poverty the same factory is burning coal and the same powerplant is generating power and the same slaughterhouse is killing a million pigs nothing has changed you haven't changed the world you've engaged in escapist fantasy instead of actually changing the world to actual activism or actual engagement so this is this is one side of it but look the other thing the bigger issue you mentioned that I also agree with you about and this is why you know there's this contrast between me and a privilege vegan who in the past you were really interested influenced by some Stan I don't think it makes veganism stronger to be anti-capitalist I think that really cripples veganism in some ways and when we're talking about effective activism like what is effective active you know there's there's a spectrum and YouTube is somewhere on the spectrum but I don't think YouTube is zero I just I just refuse to believe it's a hundred like if it's a scale from 0 to 100 know like durianrider is a completely you know he's a maniac and claiming that YouTube is the only form effect value that's the most of it no you're dreaming you know but you know it's it's better than zero it's somewhere on the spectrum and one of the most obvious examples that strangely nobody on YouTube talks about is just opening a restaurant which is completely capitalist it's part of the capitalist system you're going to open a restaurant to make money and let's be real like a modern lease acccess phul restaurant will make more money than a YouTube channel okay if you own and run a restaurant is hard work but if you think YouTube offers you real money no running a restaurant or bakery a vegan bakery could be a great business a vegan food truck vegan catering service these are real businesses they're completely part of capitalism they're completely positive and they do influence people they do you know have some positive political effect I mean I've pointed out like something that changed Toronto was just one city in Canada like it's true in some ways politically Chinese restaurants change the city they're a huge visible presence and one of the simplest messages that a Chinese restaurant delivers is hey Chinese people live here we're not going to disappear we're a permanent part of this city like that's such a simple political message you can forget about it but there's a difference between being in a city where you never see the Chinese or the Chinese are just considered poor people live there temporarily they have no real presence and you know we have permanent restaurants maybe they have a permanent you know Buddhist temple or some other architectural building which vegans don't have we have any way I mean I've always been its parison but you know like um so you know on that level permanent institutions vegan restaurants or the vegan day care center or vegan vegan legal legal office you know or something anything like that at a really minimum level it gets the message across we are a permanent community here but of course the hope the dynamism is you know the Chinese restaurants they don't really get politically organized once in a while they do in Toronto like we had problems with garbage collection and you know the Chinese restaurants all got organized and went to City Hall and said to the mayor you know you're corrupt the garbage the garbage trucks aren't coming on time or you know once in a while there is some political activism from the Chinese restaurants but obviously if you have a city with 20 vegan restaurants in it there's potential there for someone to really happen for something beyond just just selling food and just announcing as they say politically that you are or a community to Europe you're a permanent presidency so to say you know yeah in the scale from 0 to 100 I don't know running a restaurant is somewhere in the middle but that is something meaningful and in terms of the permanent vacation vegans I haven't heard any of them talking about that like so we've been talking about other aspirations like going to university getting a diploma beavers but you know what you can be a high school dropout and open a restaurant I'm not you know maybe it'll help to go to university but that's not something that requires you know like being a dietary expert or nutritionist or a research scientist involved with health it doesn't require anything to it doesn't wear anything that being a bodybuilder requires either you know almost anyone could open a restaurant you know obviously you need a little bit of money little bit of organization but that even that is strangely rare in terms of the current scene to see that it's think positive and to me the contrast or to the religious vegans the Buddhists are kicking the [ __ ] out of us on that you know the Daoists and there's this really crazy cult group the supreme master Ching hai group there I don't know they're moderately crazy a [ __ ] [ __ ] there's a a way there's a you know there's to me a disturbing irresponsible new religious group the supreme master Ching hai group they own and operate the world's biggest chain of vegan restaurants which is called the Loving Hut chain now if freely and durianrider with their you know their cult we call it a cult if they were trying to open a chain of vegan restaurants I would respect the hell out of that but you know and it's again it's not real activism it's not political activism but my standards are low I'd be so happy for them I just say okay you guys are a couple of [ __ ] nut cases with a cult and you doing sling positive you're not just riding your bicycle you're not just taking bikini photos you're not just selling [ __ ] diet books okay you've tried to get organized maybe with some of your more wealthy fans and you started opening restaurants and you want to do this because a small group like most people have never even heard of that religion the supreme master Ching hai religion I know if you heard of Loving Hut if you heard of that chain okay okay okay okay that's interesting because where you are it doesn't exist yet but like I'm telling you all over Europe Loving Hut is in France it's in England it's in Asia like it's a real international chain run by this religion that teaches people here's a convenient teaching and religion if you volunteer your time to work for free at the restaurant it's good karma it'll lead to a good reincarnation this is like the Catholic Church teaching you that giving money to the Catholic Church is really good for your soul you know what a convenient really just discovered you know so to me you know those are those are the contrasts that are in it but like I mean like I say I guess it's part of the Freak Show phenomenon you know it's just like what what's come out in front what's become the dominant mode in in veganism in 2015 i'm hoping 2016 is better hoping 2017 is better you know has really been this this kind of freak show that got a lot of attention and then again the the money and the sex and the fame that all goes into fueling it i guess i guess that's the ultimate truth right is if you're running a restaurant even if there's money the sex and the fame aren't there and of course it's slow money it's not quick money so i guess that i guess that's why that's not up front this to be around but you know i'm interested in going into hotels like i do think that some businesses like a hotel or a nightclub or a comedy club most comedy clubs have terrible food really terrible really overpriced like let's say you have a comedy club nobody's going there because it's vegan but they go to hear a comedian and they happen you know the whole menu happens to be vegan that's the order and probably they'll be happy because it's better than what normal copy clubs have you know the expectations are so low comedy clubs are only selling like deep fried chicken wings and stuff like that you know it's really bad barroom food um you know that also is not activism but I I'm cool with it like it's great okay well wonderful if there's a and what in England you know there's one soccer team and I'll get their name wrong and the whole stadium is vegan so like the hot dogs and like everything in the stadium is vegan for the athletes as goes for the audience and it's cool it's great but I mean that's all so strange to me like this is not what we're celebrating on YouTube with YouTube because now and it's not even what people are looking into again I'm not disclosing anything private here so i'll just mention it like when I talk to people like Kenya but including chania when I was talking to her like one things I just encourage you do is like you know when you go to these vegan restaurants like you can interview the people opened them like you know like the owner of the restaurant and put that on YouTube and just ask them what motivates them and what they think future is and for whatever reason she found that like really intimidating she like I could just tell she really didn't want to do it and I was encouraging her because I'm interested I don't know I don't know [ __ ] about Israel I've never been to Israel like it's a totally foreign country to me and I don't know like I don't know what kind of people open a vegan restaurant is I really don't know right so to me that's I i I've on YouTube that's something I would be interested to see now other people i already know like thailand like a little too well i already lived there for years but I know if I did that if I go and interview people who open restaurants in Thailand and talk to them about what motivated them what V does meet some of you any of these issues I think that would be interesting to other people on YouTube but like something like that it's so obvious and yet it's really been outside of uh what's been going on and I think I mean it's for all the reasons that you've kind of just mentioned I mean on the one hand it doesn't plug into the vanity thing it doesn't plug into you know the anti-capitalist thing the radical politics thing tomorrow it's only a couple years ago that occupy wall street thing that came and went but I forget what year that was that 2010 some of that around there yeah but I mean like there was Occupy Wall Street all this kind of phony radicalism I remember looking at at the time I was like man five years from now it was good to me I venison ah bum moons yen and the old legends mention you so at that time when Occupy Wall Street admin I was in Saskatchewan and I was involved with the indigenous people voltix the First Nations politics and like to see those two struggles because sometimes they would have protests on the same day next to each other you'd be like here's the [ __ ] left-wing communist struggle that's gonna last for like another two months and then disappear and like here's the like native people struggle that's been going on for like at least a hundred years you know by another measure its four years but like in its current form it's been like a hundred years of like coming to proximate and it's still going to be going on out of years from now and it really matters and its really take 10 like it was just this weird contrast for me because that was those are the political questions I was involved with