Veganism: what if our leaders are idiots? (No, seriously…)

some of y'all don't read books and I
don't mean that as an insult but it's really part of the background to the ongoing debates and controversies on this channel I said a long time ago in an interview with vegan cheetah back when he was a friend of mine that I do not think that books and magazine publications are all that important to what's going on in veganism animal rights etc I think I've got to take this jacket off I'm cold it's cold as hell in here but I don't know if I can get through this broadcast with the overcoat on whoo brisk could mean winter um I think it's understandable that some people really do not understand what I'm criticizing or why I would resort to language such as talking about stupidity and idiocy when I'm engaged in the critique of some of the seemingly respectable academic publications that come from our would-be leaders in the animal rights ecology veganism type of movement um I don't regret using words like stupid an idiot I don't regret questioning aloud whether or not the people who've ended up for the time being as the leaders of our movement are idiots on the contrary I really look back regrets in my videos where I make more unbalanced polite and seemingly flattering statements about their work because I find their work shockingly disturbingly dangerously stupid let's get right to the meat of the thing here since you know I'm talking about we're not just trading in generalizations I'm gonna read you a quote this is from page 139 of ZOA Poulos a book that I just did a very polite sort of critique of a critique balanced with some flattering things said about the authors etc as is the style this is page 139 I think all the quotes I'm gonna read are from the few pages following there after say 139 to 169 but I did not note down the page number in every case here page 139 the authors of zoella swill chemica and sue Donaldson speculate quote this does not mean that there will be no cows just not very many there will always be people who want to have cow companions or pig companions but the reality is that since these animals are less you full under non exploitive conditions few of them would be brought into the human-animal community on the other hand cautious commercialization of the use of cow's milk could lead it to becoming a luxury good resulting in a limited but stable cow community why would anyone in veganism and am rights be positively speculating about encouraging cautious commercialization of cow's milk in order to try to maintain a stable population of cattle on planet earth it's surreal it's bizarre it's idiotic I will continue still reading from the same page under the heading use of animal labor so far we have focused on cases in which humans benefit from using animals engage in doing what they do naturally eating grass growing will hurt me eating grass growing wool producing manure eggs and milk so this is polite code for they've been talking about excuses for non vegan what I would consider exploited of an immoral relations for human animals but I digress I shouldn't insert my glossing much here by the way that the code I just took off I know it looks a little bit ridiculous this contains no wool it is hard as hell to buy respectable-looking menswear in China that does not contain wool sheep's wool is the you know every every brand of clothing tries to do sheep's wool to raise the price and perceive value of the clothing they're making it was hard as hell for me to get winter clothes that do not contain sheets well but I do it because it's the [ __ ] principle of the thing all right continuing here a different form of use involves training animals to perform various kinds of work for humans such as assistance and therapy training for dogs or police training for horses it's not really stating honestly indirectly what the [ __ ] it is they're trying to say here like they must know that vegans are going to be reading this with to blanch expression what the [ __ ] are you doing why are you making excuses for wool animal manure eggs chicken eggs cow milk and now training dogs and horses what why is this even on the table why this this being negotiated it's not like the other side is offering you something in negotiations it's not like the mediating majority are sitting down and saying okay we'll all stop eating beef as long as you vegans agree to allow egg and milk production under some Cyril as long as you vegans allow police to ride horses the group cheating this there there are there's no reason to make these concessions either it's the principle thing like I think in principle police should not use horses I've never I mean look I've never heard someone making argument akin to the fact that the military really does need to use aircraft carriers therefore police really do need use horse horses are just not that useful for police work I'm sure police do all kinds of immoral things because it's really necessary it's a life and death situation I do not think horses are but why even pretend we're in a situation of negotiating these things ridiculous okay sorry still still reading the quote here there are some jobs that dogs and other animals can perform without significant training for example if we return to sheep ville we can imagine that the community also includes some dogs or donkeys who help to protect the sheep this protective behavior is a natural instinct much nurtured by selective breeding of certain dogs that does not require much training end quote III don't mean this in an overly prejudicial way I can't believe a a vegan would even use the English language this way the use of language here is so bizarre that you could have a community of humans exploiting sheep for wool production that includes dogs to help protect the sheep this protective behavior is a natural instinct much nurtured by selective reading of certain dog breeds so what you are vegan but you support selective reading of the table if I was reading this in in a pro meat-eater magazine if I was reading this why would this even be discussed or debated within our movement to me this is so off the wall this is so beyond the limits of what would and it's stupid and the fundamental problem I you know I know some people are some people are you know object to my use of language like you stupid idiot etc etc but I'm just being honest with you my reaction to this is to say I do think stupidity is the fundamental problem here it's not a problem of political biases like okay I'm sorry I did not note down the page for this I think this is from a few pages after the court I've just read you continuing from Zoo appleís but this is a few pages later as I recall quote what about other animal products such as eggs and milk as in the case of sheep the dangers here rapidly escalate with commercialization if chickens or cows are brought into the world in order to derive profit from their eggs or milk this will almost certainly entail sacrificing their basic rights currently the egg system involves not only horrific confinement and abuse of hens but the killing of male chicks and the killing of hens when their egg production levels off all of which is needed to sustain profitability but let us imagine citizen chickens pause yes that's right they just said citizen chickens and they're not using the concept of citizen chickens to validate veganism they're going to use the concept of citizen chickens to offer a justification for human beings eating eggs for exploitation of chickens right um I have to return to reading this creation quote this is published by Oxford University Press this is suppose this is not durianrider talking salaried professors publishing supposedly academic discourse at the ultra elite level of our supposed intellectual leadership in this movement yes I need to use words like stupid and yes in my first video that people ignored the content of where I for 20 minutes I did mention Nina and Randa but I also mentioned you know will chemica and the world peace diet by will Tuttle and Gary Yourofsky I mentioned so many names the video I was expressing sincere concern that the leaders of our movement the people have ended up in leadership positions who've ended up being published by Oxford University Press I am concerned that these people are idiots alright let's continue reading here but let us imagine citizen chickens whose rights are fully protected and who enjoy the same rights as other citizens should be supported in leading a flourishing life domesticated hens produce many eggs they could be allowed to incubate some fertilized eggs and have the opportunity to raise young and yet still have many surplus eggs indeed it is possible to identify the sex of embryos in the egg and to allow hens to incubate females only or primarily Oh stupid okay is it wrong for humans to use these surplus eggs question mark or to feed them to their cats as discussed below Suri's citizen chickens living in chicken poo coops producing eggs for human consumption or for humans to feed to their pet cats of sorry I digress I digress ok let's can you understand why use words like stupid an idiot when I talk about the discourse going on within veganism 2006 kitty can you can you sympathize with why I rely on these course crude offensive words when addressing my fellow intellectuals in the movin ah at Farm Sanctuary consistent with their position on wool human consumption of eggs is forbidden instead they are fed back to the chickens no comment they feed the eggs back to the chickens I will make no comment we would argue analogously to the wool discussion the human use of eggs is not inherently exploitative humans could have chicken companions on the farm or in large backyards chickens with flourishing lives allowed plenty of scope to do what chickens like to do chickens who explore and play and form social plants and raise young under the watchful eyes of humans who protect them shelter them and care for their food and medical needs and meanwhile humans could consume some of the chickens eggs does anyone want to have this debate does that want to have an academic conference or vegan step this is oh my god um it's true that this relationship would in part be based on use that is many humans who would choose to have chicken companions would do so at least in part because they want some eggs but this fact of use need not compromise the full protection of chickens rights and community membership as in the sheep case our primary concern would be to ensure that mechanisms exist to protect their rights yeah you know what um maybe I'm a bad person because I talk about this in a disrespectful or dismissive or contemptuous way a contemptuous way maybe I'm a bad person because I laugh and I use such vulgar language as stupid an idiot maybe you know what maybe maybe keeping it real is going wrong in my case maybe I should come on here and fake it and pretend to have so much respect for people in these leadership positions in our movement maybe you know maybe I'm maybe I'm doing it wrong maybe I'm a bad person but at least I'm not a [ __ ] idiot