Vegan Politics: Blood & Money.
09 May 2016 [link youtube]
Here's one answer from the hour-and-a-half long Q&A available via Patreon. The session included questions about my personal life, the books I read, possible fundraising for future projects, etc., not just veganism.
https://www.patreon.com/a_bas_le_ciel
Youtube Automatic Transcription
hey what's up this is may eight 2060
this is the voice of a guy his first name is ISIL his last name is bizarre you probably know me from my youtube channel which is called a palace yet Mike asks could you discuss what you have found are the pieces necessary for a movement to have success you have talked about things that won't work on their own and you have talked about how political influence at all levels is important but pain political influence create success on its own what are the critical parts okay close quote end of question so obviously this could be a one hour monologue in response to this given my background of my interest in life to give a somewhat limited reflection in just two parts one the most successful political movements are the most invisible so in this I mentioned you know in a recent video Mothers Against Drunk Driving the campaigns to address and indeed demonize you know drunk driving like scientifically it's actually possible for a person to drink alcohol and drive a car and a completely responsible and safe way politically that's an inconvenient fact but we have set up laws that make it completely illegal for anyone to drink alcohol in drive a car and I agree with that I mean that's the only way you can you have to have a law that applies to everyone equally you can't have a law that says well if you're really good at driving drunk will let you do it um but you know over a period of decades the the Crusades against drunk driving and the Crusades to really kind of limit the culture of alcohol have been very very successful and they're also largely invisible now at the at the opposite extreme another example a tox barista video is the question of the conspiracy for who killed JFK this type of conspiratorial movement for political change and of course lobbies that are paid for by industries would have you there are many political movements in this sense also are invisible why do I mention this well for one thing the success of mothers against drunk driving is not unique they don't have any special advantages their methods and their successes can be reproduced can be imitated can be learned from and by contrast some vegans want to draw attention to the abolition of slavery specifically the abolition of slavery in Georgia in the United States and the southern United States and many aspects of that are unique and cannot be reproduced you know the liberation of slaves in Haiti fascinating history that I was by myself right a great deal about but there's no way I can say oh yeah look at the situation for slaves in Haiti several hundred years ago and now obviously we could just apply these lessons to canada in 2016 no you have to be able to recognize when something is comparable when it's reproducible when it is something you can generalize about and when really it's it's quite unique now I mean in Haiti the revolution that freed the slaves involved real violence of the most gruesome kind of course including tremendous violence by the white people on behalf of the slave owners but the slaves themselves you know it was said at the time and not without without reason the flag of the Revolution was of a white baby impaled on a spike because they would the slaves would kill the slave masters and they would routinely take a spear and you know murder the babies murder the infant's of the slave masters and then march to the next town with a spear with the dead baby at the end of it now I mentioned this only it's incredibly gory chapter of history but let's keep it real when other vegans talk about using slavery the abolition of slavery as a model for social change for veganism is that really what you're talking about I don't think so I don't think at all we're really talking about a situation where you you want to emulate that type of violent social change and now obviously I mean most people who really study that history they have mixed sympathies because of course slavery is bad they want to see slavery end but they understand why the extreme violence happened it's it's tragic but learning from that tragedy and what lessons you apply now especially in a democratic society where you can go to City Hall you can collect donations and hire a lawyer and challenge these things in a court of law you know the slaves in Haiti couldn't do that you know when there are so many positives open to us that's really worth challenging again whether you look at mothers against drunk driving or any other you know again campaigns against smoking cigarettes to reform you know labeling and health standards for cigarettes etc etc those are the most successful and and they're also the most invisible and the culture of complaint is not really the culture you you want to be imitating although again as I've said earlier in this in the same podcast I do have sympathy with the social reasons for why people want to organize rallies and protests and I don't I don't regard them as completely worthless come back to Mike's question your part to the second aspect that wanted to mention if you're really sit asking the question what what is the the critical aspect the critical aspect is money okay the critical issue is economic why is petta the most powerful voice for veganism in the world today People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals not because they're smart not because they're right not because they're good at what they do because they got money okay they pay wages they employ people all right I hear a lot of BS about being a full-time activist on the Internet the employees of petta are probably the only full-time making activists in the world that the majority of them how many vegan agencies can you say employ people now you guys know if you watched my show I don't like pedda there are a lot of things I dislike about them I think they're kind of dumb and they're kind of goofy and you know they've been on the wrong side of history on a number of different issues is not is not perfect most vegans of course hate them because they kill store animals or they hate them because they have posters of naked women in them etc etc but guess what at the end of the day uh you know money talks um you can refer to the first first of the second question I answered where I thought of the day that I deeply disagree with this that in a democratic society freedom of speech should not be based on the ability to pay but in answer this question that is the answer now you've heard me say on youtube I had this experience with the Green Party in Canada I could also talk about my experience with Buddhism both of those examples what really mattered was motivating elderly people to support you so if you have highly motivated retired people people older than 65 who are giving you a hundred dollars a month so there could be elderly Chinese people who give money to a Buddhist temple could be elderly white people who give money to the Green Party whatever that forms the economic basis for a successful political movement that is the brutal ugly truth nobody else is going to tell you Mike yes you know the foundation for a successful political movement is financial and the foundation for those finances in my opinion is transparency and accountability right and transparency does not mean democracy so like those Chinese people when they donate their money to the Buddhist temple they may have no control over what happens to that money they don't get to vote they don't get a referendum they don't get it they don't even get a debate or discussion but what they will get if it's a good Buddhist temple is a report telling them what happened to the money and then of course they can decide in the next year if they want to donate again or not they might cancel the donation so you know okay so much money went into repainting the roof so much money did this so much money did that and you know it may be a course that some of the money is being spent to take care of orphans to give food to starving people actually some Buddhist temples do animal rights stuff also to liberate animals from cages and this kind of thing that's that's another story that could be a one hour discussion with but you know you you add it all up and you give them a list and even in the complete absence of democracy that can be a very powerful and meaningful thing that's the complete answer to your question for the purpose of this podcast Mike obviously I could speak about it even greater length yeah the foundation is financial and economic the foundation for that has to do with trust with credibility with legitimacy and the foundation for that in turn is transparency and accountability that's the essence of the thing and the most successful movements are the most invisible it's not the case that the squeaky wheel gets the grease
this is the voice of a guy his first name is ISIL his last name is bizarre you probably know me from my youtube channel which is called a palace yet Mike asks could you discuss what you have found are the pieces necessary for a movement to have success you have talked about things that won't work on their own and you have talked about how political influence at all levels is important but pain political influence create success on its own what are the critical parts okay close quote end of question so obviously this could be a one hour monologue in response to this given my background of my interest in life to give a somewhat limited reflection in just two parts one the most successful political movements are the most invisible so in this I mentioned you know in a recent video Mothers Against Drunk Driving the campaigns to address and indeed demonize you know drunk driving like scientifically it's actually possible for a person to drink alcohol and drive a car and a completely responsible and safe way politically that's an inconvenient fact but we have set up laws that make it completely illegal for anyone to drink alcohol in drive a car and I agree with that I mean that's the only way you can you have to have a law that applies to everyone equally you can't have a law that says well if you're really good at driving drunk will let you do it um but you know over a period of decades the the Crusades against drunk driving and the Crusades to really kind of limit the culture of alcohol have been very very successful and they're also largely invisible now at the at the opposite extreme another example a tox barista video is the question of the conspiracy for who killed JFK this type of conspiratorial movement for political change and of course lobbies that are paid for by industries would have you there are many political movements in this sense also are invisible why do I mention this well for one thing the success of mothers against drunk driving is not unique they don't have any special advantages their methods and their successes can be reproduced can be imitated can be learned from and by contrast some vegans want to draw attention to the abolition of slavery specifically the abolition of slavery in Georgia in the United States and the southern United States and many aspects of that are unique and cannot be reproduced you know the liberation of slaves in Haiti fascinating history that I was by myself right a great deal about but there's no way I can say oh yeah look at the situation for slaves in Haiti several hundred years ago and now obviously we could just apply these lessons to canada in 2016 no you have to be able to recognize when something is comparable when it's reproducible when it is something you can generalize about and when really it's it's quite unique now I mean in Haiti the revolution that freed the slaves involved real violence of the most gruesome kind of course including tremendous violence by the white people on behalf of the slave owners but the slaves themselves you know it was said at the time and not without without reason the flag of the Revolution was of a white baby impaled on a spike because they would the slaves would kill the slave masters and they would routinely take a spear and you know murder the babies murder the infant's of the slave masters and then march to the next town with a spear with the dead baby at the end of it now I mentioned this only it's incredibly gory chapter of history but let's keep it real when other vegans talk about using slavery the abolition of slavery as a model for social change for veganism is that really what you're talking about I don't think so I don't think at all we're really talking about a situation where you you want to emulate that type of violent social change and now obviously I mean most people who really study that history they have mixed sympathies because of course slavery is bad they want to see slavery end but they understand why the extreme violence happened it's it's tragic but learning from that tragedy and what lessons you apply now especially in a democratic society where you can go to City Hall you can collect donations and hire a lawyer and challenge these things in a court of law you know the slaves in Haiti couldn't do that you know when there are so many positives open to us that's really worth challenging again whether you look at mothers against drunk driving or any other you know again campaigns against smoking cigarettes to reform you know labeling and health standards for cigarettes etc etc those are the most successful and and they're also the most invisible and the culture of complaint is not really the culture you you want to be imitating although again as I've said earlier in this in the same podcast I do have sympathy with the social reasons for why people want to organize rallies and protests and I don't I don't regard them as completely worthless come back to Mike's question your part to the second aspect that wanted to mention if you're really sit asking the question what what is the the critical aspect the critical aspect is money okay the critical issue is economic why is petta the most powerful voice for veganism in the world today People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals not because they're smart not because they're right not because they're good at what they do because they got money okay they pay wages they employ people all right I hear a lot of BS about being a full-time activist on the Internet the employees of petta are probably the only full-time making activists in the world that the majority of them how many vegan agencies can you say employ people now you guys know if you watched my show I don't like pedda there are a lot of things I dislike about them I think they're kind of dumb and they're kind of goofy and you know they've been on the wrong side of history on a number of different issues is not is not perfect most vegans of course hate them because they kill store animals or they hate them because they have posters of naked women in them etc etc but guess what at the end of the day uh you know money talks um you can refer to the first first of the second question I answered where I thought of the day that I deeply disagree with this that in a democratic society freedom of speech should not be based on the ability to pay but in answer this question that is the answer now you've heard me say on youtube I had this experience with the Green Party in Canada I could also talk about my experience with Buddhism both of those examples what really mattered was motivating elderly people to support you so if you have highly motivated retired people people older than 65 who are giving you a hundred dollars a month so there could be elderly Chinese people who give money to a Buddhist temple could be elderly white people who give money to the Green Party whatever that forms the economic basis for a successful political movement that is the brutal ugly truth nobody else is going to tell you Mike yes you know the foundation for a successful political movement is financial and the foundation for those finances in my opinion is transparency and accountability right and transparency does not mean democracy so like those Chinese people when they donate their money to the Buddhist temple they may have no control over what happens to that money they don't get to vote they don't get a referendum they don't get it they don't even get a debate or discussion but what they will get if it's a good Buddhist temple is a report telling them what happened to the money and then of course they can decide in the next year if they want to donate again or not they might cancel the donation so you know okay so much money went into repainting the roof so much money did this so much money did that and you know it may be a course that some of the money is being spent to take care of orphans to give food to starving people actually some Buddhist temples do animal rights stuff also to liberate animals from cages and this kind of thing that's that's another story that could be a one hour discussion with but you know you you add it all up and you give them a list and even in the complete absence of democracy that can be a very powerful and meaningful thing that's the complete answer to your question for the purpose of this podcast Mike obviously I could speak about it even greater length yeah the foundation is financial and economic the foundation for that has to do with trust with credibility with legitimacy and the foundation for that in turn is transparency and accountability that's the essence of the thing and the most successful movements are the most invisible it's not the case that the squeaky wheel gets the grease