Save the Lions… FROM THE VEGANS? @Vegan Gains @Vegan Footsoldier

because what you're saying here is that
if if we can prevent one mouse from dying you would kill all of the animals in existence yes because i'm in i'm in favor of reducing rights violations it's kind of like the non-aggression principle so like um the problem i have is that predators are the ones violating others rights so yeah like obviously i'm more in favor of protecting the innocent versus like like it's really strange too because weren't you attacking my position based on utilitarianism now it sounds like you have a utilitarian physician issue each other's heaven no that's not utilitarian logic that fits no that fit no you're being more utilitarian here i'm being more deontological you're the one being utilitarian yeah you are you said you wouldn't be in favor of killing nazis because it would result in more harm that's utilitarian no it's not youtube the nazis will kill all of these people and if i kill all the nazis then that's gonna um cause more harm so the utilitarian doesn't kill the nazis um you literally just said you wouldn't kill the nazis so you're proving my point you're being utilitarian in in the chat i've just posted something in the chat here um i actually prepared this in advance because i i anticipated stuff like this right well if that is genuinely your position it's a bizarre position because then you're just going to have to kill everyone and everything right because um you you hurt did you not listen to my proposition i said in circumstances where it reduces rights violations dude i said in circumstances where it reduces rights violations i'm in favor of killing predatory species right so you're saying that it reduces rights violations as part of your proposition but now when i'm asking you about one single rise so so obviously we've got you'd have to violate millions of of you would have to cause millions of rights violations to save one mouse okay let me ask you this like were you not in favor of like killing nazis like would you have been against world war ii uh like considering the german population was larger than the jewish population i i think we're getting slightly derailed no i'm not like i i don't see what the like dude i don't see what the issue is here considering the german population is bigger than the jewish population like would you be against um like would you be against like killing nazis yeah i think we should incapacitate nazis uh uh well you can't i wouldn't well you can't we're talking about a situation where you can only use lethal force so what do you mean like like assuming the nazi population was greater than the jewish population would you not be in favor of killing nazis to save jews even though that means you're going to end up killing more people than the nazis otherwise would kill yeah we're just talking about war um i don't this is like it it doesn't matter if we're talking about war like it's the same principle hey could you could you like just answer okay dude could you just answer the hypothetical because you still haven't done it supposing okay well no okay no no no you're weaseling out of it i want an affirmative answer if there were i want an affirmative answer you can't just weasel out of it and say i don't kill people i want an affirmative answer yes or no so if there were 10 million nazis and 5 million jews the only way to prevent those all of those 5 million jews from dying is to kill the 10 million nazis would you let the 10 million nazis kill all the jews uh yes or no yes or no you would let the 10 million nazis kill the 5 million jews oh god and i and i'm the one who's the the crazy person here okay because uh predatory animals are the aggressors here they're the one violet they're the ones violating the rights of prey species i'm in favor of protecting the rights of the prey species just like i'd be in favor of protecting the rights of the jews so the the delusion that these people are indulging in is that they can and should uh police the wilderness uh forcing you know these human created values onto uh sharks dolphins so on and so forth even if it means obliterating you know the entire food chain destroying ecology as we know it in the name of this ideal this ideal that seems to matter more than the teacher itself or or what have you now i've been kind of hinting at this repeatedly uh in this video what is the point of policing to use nacho's favorite word what is the justification for policing i don't i don't normally talk in terms of justifying things i think it's very misleading in english what we what we do and don't mean by justify or saying something is justified um to give an example you know if you have an atheist majority in a country modern atheist democratic majority and they are getting into policing the morality of the muslim minority in the country so this is happening right now in many countries in europe different places around the world happening in some parts of china um although without the democracy unfortunately with with only the chinese idea of democracy okay what is the justification anyone can argue back and both left-wing and right-wing people argue against this there are right-wing libertarians and there are left-wing bleeding hearts and so on who say well these people have their own culture why don't you just let it let them do it their own way you know they have their own marriage customs they have their own ceremonies their own music they have their own costume their own style of dress why you know if they want to cut off part of their dick in this ceremony called circumcision why don't you just let them do things their way why don't you just pretend that our laws can't and shouldn't apply to them let them carry on you know in their own way now this question is normally asked insincerely and it's normally answered insincerely but i want to answer it really sincerely i want to talk about what is the point of policing okay the justification for sober people policing drug addicts is entirely based on a claim about their human potential okay the reason why i don't want you to become a heroin addict is because i have a definite notion of who it is you could be and should be right now most of you if today with facebook you could really look this up think back to the classroom full of people you graduated high school with right how many of them are dead today i'm assuming i've have a middle aged audience some of you are watching this you're 18 you're like hey wait time i just graduated two weeks ago it's true i do i chose some teenage viewers okay all right if you're over 30 years old how many of the people you graduated from high school with are dead today how many of them are dead due to drug use or drug overdose and how many of them are alive but have completely ruined their lives with drug use they've completely rotted their brains or whatever they've frittered away fritter is not quite the right verb here they have squandered their human potential with drugs and alcohol okay the justification for the reason for the point of me policing you whether i'm the king or the dictator or whether we have a democracy where it's the majority of people voting in a referendum the fundamental reason for policing is that you have the potential to be something better to do something and you are going to lose that potential it's going to be snuffed out if i allow you to become a heroin addict when you're 16 years old you're never going to get there there is a kind of potential that a woman has that is snuffed out by allowing her to have her clitoris removed in what is called female circumcision there is a kind of human potential that is snuffed out when women are deprived of the opportunity to attend high school and university because they're part of a religion that wants them to just get married at the minute they're physically old enough to do so and that that puts them into a veil and gives them this operation and deprives them of ever having an education or a career right and guess what guys none of this relies on anything as certain as science or the laws of nature or evolution it's all political i think the problem with veganism precisely is that they don't regard what is political as political so let's give you an example one of the most common arguments made for veganism is that it's natural no it's not it's ridiculous they will make the argument that we are evolved to be vegan or specifically that were evolved to be frugivores fruitarian and then that it's a kind of crime against nature for you to eat meat it's completely ridiculous now i understand why it's gratifying no no this is an ethical decision this is a social and political movement and it has as much or as little justification as any other social or political movement now i would say just disclose my past i like black people and i like gay people i'm pro-black and i'm pro-gay i have never once made an argument like in favor of black rights or gay rights on the argument that they are natural or it's due to evolution like we're evolved to embrace gay people and treat them well and give them equal rights or you know the people of different that's ridiculous to me this is political i mean this is real politics let's let's face up to it you know and around the world and throughout history most societies have been intolerant to most people most of the time the most trivial of differences imaginable have brought about unspeakable intolerance meaning catholic versus protestant anyone today can say what the [ __ ] what's the difference in catholic and brought us in are you kidding me you know um portuguese against spanish do you have any idea how hard the portuguese fight against the spanish you know in new orleans and so on you know well the difference meant a lot to them at the time the two most popular ways to try to make politics unquestionable to make you know political authority decisions made by political authorities unquestionable it's either to hide behind the mask of religion or to hide behind the mask of science as i write about my book currently in the 21st century we see you know this other very strange delusion about the law itself that things can't be questioned just because they're a law or just because they're in a constitution as if that's something different than just a decision made by one person at one time that was written down on a piece of paper this strange pattern of thought we have that things become unquestionable when they're called science when they're called religion and the reason why we don't want to admit that it's political is that whatever is political is questionable any decision we make i mean we can we can have a referendum and people decide to make uh abortion completely illegal and then ten years later you have another referendum and they decide to make one portion completely legal from the perspective of the people of saudi arabia we are guilty of a great injustice by depriving people of the freedoms freedoms they want to have within their own religious and cultural tradition right and vice versa we would perceive ourselves as being deprived of the freedoms we would value if we had to go and live in saudi arabia right but the justification the point of policing ultimately is a claim made about potential and i will make the further statement that potential ultimately its significance is intellectual i'm opposed to marijuana everyone in this audience right now i'm just gonna encourage you to quit smoking marijuana never smoke marijuana again if you own marijuana right now in your apartment flush it down the toilet start living a better life tomorrow morning as a result kids it's my position number one some people are dying of cancer some people have particular symptoms either caused by the cancer itself or by the therapy they're receiving such as chemotherapy they're getting chemical treatments and different kinds of invasive okay that are horrendously painful i have been told and i am willing to believe that marijuana can be used to treat the physical pain as a painkiller and has fewer negative side effects than other painkillers for some of these people who are dying of cancer great smoke marijuana every day you're going to die two weeks from now what is the point of me policing your drug habit if you are gonna be dead two weeks from now you see you see how that changes it's subtle but it's not [ __ ] subtle at all it's the most obvious thing in the world and once you've seen it you can't unsee it the justification for me oppressing you whether it's the king oppressing you or the in a democracy the majority oppressing the minority or in a parliamentary system an elite minority oppressing the majority the justification ultimately has to be based on your positive potential or making a claim based on your potential your intellectual potential your human potential okay the shark has absolutely no intellectual potential above and beyond exercising its evolved natural faculties to hunt and kill and mate and lay eggs that's it if you relieve the shark of its duty to hunt and kill by providing it every day with an ingeniously devised vegan sandwich you go every day out in your canoe and you feed the shark a vegan sandwich that the most brilliant scientists have designed to appease the hunger of the sharks so that it no longer has to hunt what do you think you are liberating the shark to do is it now going to write that novel it was working on you know there is no other nature there is no other capacity right there is no further horizon there is no intellectual development possible for the shark it can only be the best shark it can be it cannot imitate a human being in virtue okay it can't cultivate anything intellectually and indeed i think with most predatory species i don't know this about sharks there are some predatory species where if you give them food this way if human beings relieve them they no longer have the need to hunt because they're being fed some of them will just become completely inert some of them will just become lazy they'll do nothing but others will hunt and kill for sport they'll hunt and kill for fun because that's all they know how to do that's all they enjoy they hunting mating they have a very you know they have very very limited intellectual capacity so this is this is obviously taking the more uh i know the less horrifying form of policing as our example right this is policing through deterrence or something right the other form of policing that's being entertained here absurdly and is now endorsed by vegan gains he managed to get that vegan teacher to congressionally go along with it but the other foreign police needs to actually exterminate them because they refuse to live up to our to our human standards our human values when we decide that we are going to police the muslim faith and by the way there are plenty of forms of judaism and christianity that are just as bad i'm not joking in canada you can look at the hutterites a lot of the kind of extreme fundamentalist christian cults frankly let me say look the majority has decided that we do not like the fact that your women are being raised without going to high school and university and so on and i know it's ridiculous because it's not compulsory to go to university but we don't like what you're doing the way you're raising young women in this and we are actually going to start passing laws and we're going to break up your closed cult like community you can imagine there are some mormon groups that are like this too because we really want these women to have access to education and be a part of society and all these in all these different ways ultimately it's about intellectual potential it's like look you are depriving these women of the life of the mind you're depriving them of the full range of their of their human nature their human capabilities but that is the justification for what is genuinely oppressive when you prevent people from circumcising their own children you're oppressing them you prevent people from raising their own sons and daughters the way they want to with their own culture you're oppressing them you're saying yes this oppression is justified because we really believe that you have other potential there's a better life there's a more meaningful life for you to live that you'd be deprived of otherwise okay there is in this way no justification whatsoever for civilized human beings to engage in policing the wilderness policing sharks policing leopards tigers lions and the lion has no other nature no higher intellectual uh characteristics that it can exercise uh develop or ever even imagine or aspire to from my perspective that's a wrap it's simple mod vegan thought that human beings should prevent bears from raping other bears in the forest you know so bears generalizing hashtag not all bears but among bears generally speaking rape is common and cannibalism is also common uh lions too have a great deal of cannibalism yeah it's a dog-eat-dog world it's a very bear world also okay so you have an idea of human morality and like this is specifically human sexuality and you want to impose it on bears you want to police bears you want to police the morality of bears the diet of bears you're going to bring them into court for murder i mean it's for some of us it's just so self-evidently absurd but do you have the vocabulary to reason that through do you have the ability to really explain to someone where it is they're going wrong in applying this this constant policing you would kill every bird on earth because they would dare to to pull a worm from the ground they would dare to crush up a potato bug they would eat the insects out of the air and off the ground you know so you want to you want to commit genocide against robbins we're not living up to your standards this is madness it's madness because you are policing them in a way that that's irrelevant it's it's ridiculous and and by congress you have to talk about what is the positive justification for policing what is the point of policing the point is i'm policing you because i don't want you to become a heroin addict i don't want you to drop out of school and be unemployable and whatever i don't want all these terrible things that happen to you but i'm policing you in a sense also i want you to be vegan i want you to have this more uh sophisticated morally responsible you know view of life so it's filled with i am doing that because of your positive potential when you scale it up our positive potential all right afghanistan could be a better country if they became you know ninety percent atheist and ninety percent vegan you know these things are linked in many ways if you could bring about fundamental positive changes in their in their attitudes their level of education and their outlook on life and so on you could you could radically you know improve life for everyone in that society now how are you going to do it you know obviously we've just seen a 20-year experiment asking the question of can you oppress the people of afghanistan into enlightenment and the answer is george w bush can't i think some other president frankly could have done it i think a lot of this has to be blamed on the unique stupidity of two men george w bush and barack obama well they didn't do it they failed left to their own devices their their culture is going to go on they're going to go on oppressing themselves and oppressing one another and oppressing women and oppressing animals it's going on and on forever and you know the point of policing in this sense you're the catcher the point is ultimately is enlightenment is of wanting people to live an enlightened life and make enlightened choices and become enlightened people become better people that's why i'm telling you to not smoke marijuana i want to tell you also to not use heroin cocaine fentanyl and innumerable other drugs but when we turn to a robin a penguin it's meaningless there is just no sense in which we can preach to the penguins that they ought not to eat fish okay no no no no the hypothetical is they can only use lethal force you're saying it's morally wrong for them to stop a mass shooter who's killing dozens of people if they use lethal force to kill that mass shooter or to stop the mass shooter in my personal opinion it's morally wrong they might do it anyway okay dude this debate over you're a joke to me you know what you're just you're just okay dude you're just [ __ ] special you know what i am done you're just special all right [Music] maybe we can we can practice