Februdairy: Vegans Deconstruct DAIRY'S LAST STAND (feat. "the Flemface")

so I was just being enlightened about
dr. Jude capper February and I guess this is kind of the latest attempt to revalorisé the dairy industry and they are trying to come out as transparent look I find it weird - I mean some of the things meat eaters eat I have to recognize historically have been crucial to human survival so now was I was talking with Melissa the other day in terms of not just not really human evolution but the history of just the last 5,000 years the reason why most cities are located where they are is due to access to fish that definitely includes the history of Scotland and Eastern Canada by the way fish was an almost infinite source of protein for human beings in the last 5000 years now believe me sir I'm a vegan in case you didn't know watching this video I don't think it's morally justifiable in the year 2008 to eat fish but I can recognize historically the entire population of Japan and Scotland and even Cambodia was located where it was due to the availability of fish you know Angkor Wat in Cambodia it reached a peak population of about 1 million people living in one city now it was actually more like a giant suburb they didn't have high rises or skyscrapers they all lived in little houses but still they got about a million people in total how fish was crucial to that yes also rice and whatever they were living in a swamp they're living in a tropical swamp with a lot of fish protein sitting around so I mean I can I can recognize that but you know whenever we buy food almost the first thing we look at even with the enof vegan diet it's just the ratio the ratio of fat to protein and there is no justification for eating you know camembert there's no justification for eating cheddar you know now or ever you know that the dairy products we sorry not me cuz I'm vegan but we this is something to eat there so obviously poison you know what I mean like you know there's a level on which I I can't argue that you shouldn't eat fish in terms of your health and this obvious sense you know what I mean I recognize you know and the stats that show vegans are tremendously healthy when you look at the epidemiology there were pescetarians who are very healthy also now believe me sir I'm not letting him off easy there were serious health problems caused by eating fish including exposure to mercury I personally knew one man who had destroyed his health permanently by eating fish because he got mercury toxicity believe is called miyamoto syndrome but it may or may not be but in mercury exposure to fish destroyed his life and that's it he might've horrible but he's not dead he's in he's trapped in a kind of living death due to this you know mercury exposure yeah terrible permanent health damage whoa so that's that is very scary and very real but on a fundamental level dairy products are just a blob of fat I mean it's unbelievably unhealthy for you and I you know I don't you know there were of course there were a million other reasons to not eat dairy there are a million other reasons to be vegan ethical and ecological and health and everything else but you know I don't get it and look keeping it real I have mentioned this before I was briefly employed behind the cheese counter at a Whole Foods Market I remember mentioning that back when Joe vegan was still vegan and he was on YouTube because jovi gonna make a big deal about how he worked in a grocery store he was so poor and oppressed compared to me I said hey I used to work in a grocery store - I used to work at that Whole Foods Market I would find that I work the cheese counter and the particular location I was at we did get a lot of you know slender women coming in asking me for advice on what kind of cheese they should eat to lose weight or remain slim and the advice I gave them every time and they would often be asking me this holding in their hands so-called low-fat cheddar which is really high in fat and every time what I said to them which was very good advice I said if that's the case the only cheese you should eat is parmesan because parmesan is very strong tasting and you can grade it over over the food you eat and I said what you need is to do something like parmesan that's a very very strong taste said you eat very little of it because the only way the only way to have low-fat cheese is to not eat cheese or cheese as possible which is what's something like you know if using a trivial amount of parmesan then the negative effect in your health is better so this is obviously me you know before I was vegan cheese counter and I didn't know any of the detailed stuff I know now about dairy products and health impacts and so on but it's just blindingly obvious in terms of the protein to fat ratio which is what you're eating why is this part of the human diet at all why do human beings eat ice cream and butter and cheese it's really insane so sorry I'm keeping it real let me know something now actually and it's by the Farmers Weekly and its form as weekly themselves trying to debunk the myths spread about dairy itself and there's one about health and you may see if you read it it's not even a minute because they can see to it but I'm even with their argument that they're trying to steer to here's the myth taking carbs from their mothers is harmful their responses or Jude Kappas response is activist groups are highly skilled at creating content test messages which resonate with consumers and suggestion calves are forcibly removed from the cow with the cow often cited as bellowing for days afterwards he is a popular anti berry message maternal ability is a desirable trait in beef cows which often card outside or unsupervised but has been neglected to some degree in dairy breeding programs not all cows are interested in caring for the calf 24 hours of life obviously the dairy the dairy farming industry is based on what cows would prefer their preference yeah you know these people have no sense of fair play but I mean you know the weird thing is so I used to live on the border between Spain and France where the debate about bullfighting was still ongoing you know so region by region they were having referenda they were they were having ballots they were voting on whether or not to ban bullfighting forever and I knew other other vegans there so what I lived in Perpignan I think I knew all four vegans who lived in Perpignan this is right on the Catalan border between France and Spain there were very very few vegans there but some of the more serious activists it just seemed Valerius the arguments the debates being had about bullfighting like well torturing an animal to death in public for human entertainment in yeah sir we were just talking about a minute ago is it okay to eat honey or oysters or something that's a little bit more understandable this is torture good animal to death just for just for human entertainment but you know on the other hand as ridiculous as it may sound you know what they do with those bowls it has more of a sense of fair play then you know what we do with with dairy cows every day I mean it's you know it's moral insanity I think most people are shocked when they first learned that the cows never even get to have sex you know a cow never gets to have sex with a bull they get a human hand shoved up their anus in order to direct a needle that's inserted in their vagina and that's their whole life is living beneath the steel sky inside a steel cage and and so on so you know I mean it's it's insane to say that somehow you know milk production conditions are based on what the cow desires or appreciates that the cow would prefer that you murder and eat its child rather than leave them together I mean you know when the only life you've known as a cow is living inside a steel cage I mean the whole frame of reference for it is just insane and incoherent but yeah the Spanish in terms in terms of sense of fair play you know when they do that stuff the Running of the Bulls they accept that every year the Bulls are gonna kill a few people you know the Bulls will kill a few bullfighters kill a few people in them in the streets as I mean obviously like it's it's it's laughable from a be in perspective the debate surrounding bullfighting but you know actually when you think about it it's more morally acceptable and more morally justifiable than what goes on invisibly in the milk industry every day yeah be the moral courtesy it's just not consider history examples right now I just it was an 80 year old man he was shoving his whole arm and then he fiddled with himself he wasn't he wasn't punished for causing the cow any harm it was it was charged for public indecency no one permission to touch our cows we see them as family so these 150 counts you've probably done the exact same thing because they were literally about to milk them the host of beef there are good returns available the company which takes ours is a really good route to market that is now totally they also see that beef quality is as good as any other breed so they're still gonna get shot well you're too choosy two responses one of which is quick and one of which is more long and deep so I we were living now or new apartment brand-new apartment our new leery carpeted apartment he's on Vancouver Island so Vancouver Island is not Vancouver it's an island next to Vancouver on that whole island all cattle all male or female are executed by rifle by gun they don't have any slaughterhouses and economically it's not viable to put them on a ferryboat take them across to a slaughterhouse and take them back again so I'm living within the Western world the modern world one of the few areas where there are no slaughterhouses it's all old-fashioned bullet to the head execution so would be nice if we get a car or currently we're pedestrian and bus only we could drive out and probably interview some of those guys who shoot cows in the head probably film them doing it talk to them about how they they feel about it so we're still in the 18th century that way and there was a time when the modern factory slaughterhouse didn't exist but Vancouver Island as far as I know is still living in that era again for purely economic reasons and you know I'm not convinced though I don't know if getting shot in the head is any better or worse than being killed in a slaughterhouse it's probably better at least they get shot the head outdoors you know like no it's ridiculous but you've asked yourself would you rather die by being shot in the head in a field or blasphemy processing factory and killed the way those guys are killed I hate to tell you but shun people might win I don't you know I don't make any real ethical distinction between the stainless steel slaughterhouse and dying on the mud unless you think bleeding to death on steel is morally superior to bleeding to death on grass and mud I don't I don't see it that way so that's that's one interesting thing and that is really an opportunity for activism because I think if we did get out and talk to those people just like normal human beings I think you know you know I mean I didn't scream at them Meat Is Murder on speciesism is their default brush you know just talk to them about their lives probably those be will be an interesting insight you're honest for you for you in Scotland I think this will be part of your life inevitably because the connection between India and England is so strong but these discussions about cow rights are on another level in India because in India they believe in animal rights for cows but only cows not bowls not steers not the male of the species only the female and not for water buffalo for Buffalo's general I think they have a couple species of Buffalo so other bovines that are all more or less identical the cattle but they do not consider them cattle they're not BOS indicus as a species you know they have a different shape of horn so you have a totally surreal situation where people want to believe that milk is good and morally pure because that's what it says in the Vedas that's what it says in classical Hindu texts milk and butter or pure and sacred and butter oil they think of as the ultimate food but they want to believe that the production of milk is not exploiting the cows or it's not harming the cows that want to leave cows are sacred and then at the same time a totally cavalier attitude towards killing and even eating the male of the species and the exploitation and killing of these Buffalo species which make buffalo milk cheese by the way they are exploited for their their milk not just their meat right adjacent to it so I think any detached observer can look at that and say this is not sustainable and I don't mean ecologically sustainable I mean like psychologically sustainable it's not possible for more than 1 billion people in India to look at this just sit back and look at it and it'll be on YouTube you know that's the reality it's not gonna be on mainstream TV it's gonna be a billion people sooner or later looking on YouTube but the reality of where milk comes from and look at the reality of here's what you call a cow and here's what you call a buffalo like talk about hashtag speciesism you know most of you guys are making arguments like what's the difference between a pig and a dog what's the difference treated Carol that has horns shaped like this at a cow that has horn shaped like that like their kids did cow it a buffalo this is speciesism gone amok you know one is sacred and one's just a filthy animal you know apparently it seems to be completely inevitable not out of necessarily the strength of Hinduism but out of the weakness of Hinduism and the breakdown of Hinduism of the 21st century of elev out of that mess of what's left over a Findo ism of Buddhism it seems to me inevitable that there's going to be a huge impetus towards veganism and only against dairy specifically against Terry this is just not sustainable betrayin distinctions as justifications so I'm not I'm not surprised it goes extreme as that with this one with anything like dogs if you look at picking a dog they're really not that different like Pixar essentially you know dogs with who's obviously they have a different kind of biology and diet but when you look at their behavior very similar there's not much obviously when you people have them as pets you can see both of them in the wild would also attack and kill humans very gladly dogs would also prefer to eat humans rather than work for us and wild boars would do yeah so just as Melissa do you want to see some more about the milk myths and misconceptions now I think we could heap scorn on this for hours yeah I remember or so again this is before I had a YouTube channel this is pigs rather than cows but I had this blog about veganism and I remember a hog farmer replied to a post I had also commented on a sign I don't think was my post oh yeah oh yeah no I talked to several I told you I talked I talked you through that platforms you my father it is I talk too much I truck yeah yeah they're out there trying to get late to ultimately most of the social media is fueled by dinner I mean it's fueled by wanting to have sex with members of the opposite sex or members of the same sex or both if you're all hog farmer how do you meet people you spend all your time in a [ __ ] shed do they have a vegan category a vegan farmers own can I click on the vegan button and only date other vegan firm that's what I'm looking for vegan vegan male former chic sick look looking to share an apartment above a pig shed yes it's a hog shed but the smell isn't too bad anyway there was a hog farmer who replied and it was a thought it was a photograph that a whole bunch of vegans were commenting on that just showed you know the mother cow sorry sorry a mother Sall female pig in a in a steel cage that really didn't allow her to move at all and then the piglets drinking from her teats it was just an unbelievable image of exploitation taken beyond any taken to the nth degree what I want to say and the hog farmer wrote back and said like oh well you see this is the sort of thing where activists really have maked mislead you with these kinds of photographs he said you know what's really going on here is that you know you're preventing the pig from hurting itself or accidentally crushing her own Palin's because that can happen you just provided this kind of comment which in no way refutes or challenges the moral problem deacons are pointing out here I think a lot of people run this photo are not vegan they're just not morally insane they can just look at this and say something's really wrong with this picture you know sometimes really this isn't the myth of happy need I bought into you know I mean this is the picture on the side of my box of animal crackers or something you know what I mean this isn't the life I thought these pigs had before they were killed for our entertainment you know anyway I just say that that was weird to see that but I mean what can I tell you stupidity is real and you know I think I mean one of the functions of intelligence this actually comes back even to Arthur Schopenhauer theory of what is intelligence on what a stupidity is discerning between what is salient and what is irrelevant and some people are so stupid that you can just present them with a totally irrelevant fact like Oh like I don't know in the wild sometimes female pigs will accidentally crush their own children I guess that must be true I mean it must happen once in a while you know humans do that accidentally too you know it's a problem where's the way you sleep while you're breastfeeding if you fall asleep oppressed when you have to be careful you don't baby humans do it so I guess pigs do it therefore steel sky concrete floor steel cage millions of tons of pig flesh beer all justified any contradiction if your question dismissed my mind at ease you know if you can't see the difference between what's relevant and what's irrelevant there you know what yeah it's it's mind-blowing to me but stupidity is real and as we were saying under under a very different heading you know what an hour ago or something we all have to live in a society together we're not gonna form a society that's only smart people I can't even put together a vegan activist group that's only smart vegans we got plenty of idiots and then veganism too you know we all gotta learn to work together and cooperate and try to make something positive as stupid as as we may be individually or collectively we gotta focus on doing the best we can Terry we watched a video on Deutsche Welle and it was about it was not Pro vegan it was really about it was Pro dairy farmer and I was talking about how there are so many limits on the probability of dairy now and how to make money off of it they're selling yeah well they have like like huge supplies of powdered milk that they have to do something with so they're sending it to countries in Africa and it's just it's a huge mess and I don't even think it's the plant milk Center and fringing on the dairy you know Jerry I think it's really yeah yeah you know that's what I appreciated about this whole thing is so many vegans we're just assuming it was a vegan thing because so many bigots are young and of eat the young people on the internet don't mean the living daylight and that's exactly like one of the the people who brought it to our attention within the BDDs was ether logic he's also known as Tim he and I had a big when he was trying to explain jude kepler and that's how i came to know it and relentlessly we've been trying to ask her simple questions there were no no insults and transparency between the vegans and the teri industry it's showing a desperation i think there are a lot of things like did you say sometimes you ask what's acceptable as soon as you ask what's optimal so a very different moral problem from a perspective is prostitution you know I've lived in Thailand where there's a lot of prostitution and I don't think I'm ever gonna live in a society where there is zero prostitution you know how much prostitution should we tolerate as a society that's very difficult answer it really is sincerely I think no matter where you are on the political spectrum if you aren't being in an insane idea log and there are feminist ideologues and there were Muslim ideologues and Catholic ideologues you know the answer isn't zero and the answer isn't 100 and it's really hard to draw the line on that about what's tolerable what's acceptable and what's optimal but the the bizarre thing when you're looking at something like cheese or milk or the ecological impact of the the you know the beef and dairy industry you know setting aside even the the ethical consideration if you ask what is the optimal amount of cholesterol in the human diet the answer is zero what is the optimal amount of cheese in the human diet not tolerable optimal the optimal amount of cheese in the human diet is zero what is the optimal amount of cow blood and cow poo and cow piss you want in this river the River Thames let's say but any River the optimal answer is zero and that is completely attainable I don't think even if one thing we could ever have a society with zero prostitution it's never gonna happen a society with zero cow milk and zero [ __ ] in the River Thames is completely attainable all you have to do is you know what you and I and all these other vegans do every day so I'm within arm's reach of a whole bunch of vegan food you know to us it to us it comes natural at this point we know we know how easy it is and yes we also know how hard it is in some ways we know the ways in which is it's hard or challenging but you know I do think it's much harder to make that argument about something like fish or lobsters that don't have the same externalities in the same obvious health health damage but I've said this of you th use the example leather shoes all the time it's like you know a contrast you know leather shoes to scientific research that in both torturing animals that again I don't think we can live in a society with zero scientific research that tortures animals zero vivisection I don't think it's horrifying but I don't think zero is attainable I think that's another difficult question of how much are we gonna tolerate where are we gonna draw the line etc you know when is scientific research so important that you get to torture rats to death I think that's really worth answering even though I accept we have to kill rats when there's an infestation you know there are other situations in which we have to kill rats I think that's still an important question to ask and to have government guidelines for an England you a very anyway you have a government guidelines whether or not they're good you do have that stuff written out and in law but in some countries it's very much up in the air it's very much an undetermined you know but unlike you know medical research why should we tolerate any leather shoes tolerance is irrelevant why should we tolerate any cheese tolerance is irrelevant the optimal amount is zero and none of us have to sacrifice or suffer to achieve that that target so anyway sorry but you know people talk about being pragmatic within veganism I think part of being pragmatic is also recognizing the situations where you don't have to compromise all kinds of things we have to compromise on but this is not actually being interviewed and she's trying to promote positive sides of Derry and the two examples it may have been three the only Co example she could come up with but it cows themselves and cheese sandwiches and we can still appreciate cows any bovine creature is to do humanitarian work and I saw a completely humorless argument about how dairy fat was more effective in causing humans to gain body weight humans to get get fat and that therefore humanitarian work we should be prioritizing it was I think canned butter there's this type of butter that doesn't need refrigeration I don't think anyone in the Western world is capable of eating it's really horrible it's really awful processed products but it's like well yes if your definition of something being healthy is in a refugee camp it makes people get fatter or quicker why should they Springs why eat broccoli if your objective is to gain as much but yeah once in a while you read these things that are that are really sincere that are making that kind of argument as I say I've read it let a strange life so I've actually read some arguments like that which are about refugee camps you know they're about really weird situations but obviously most of the people engaged in these debates are not being sincere sometimes they're making money out of the industry but sometimes it's also just not not being honest with yourself and and I don't know I mean I'm lucky in some ways I've led a really wonderful life in some ways my life has been on indescribable horrible but you know I at least Abed the time to really think all these things through and a lot of people work a 9 to 5 job or work 10 and 12 hours a day and you know they get to it pretty yeah right living in that harried way that unexamined life they get to age 45 and they're asking themselves questions for the first time that my daughter was asking me at age four and a half my daughter was asking me a lot of questions about about veganism you know and she was emotionally invested too we weren't building up for you could see it was a big deal to her emotionally already at age four and a half you know so yeah I do like that about about veganism I've said I've said to you at some point in this chemical conversation once in the last year but you know um so my parents were communists and being raised communists I was really aware this was an ideology so simple that it was really like children could completely understand that children could appreciate you know killing all the rich people that's a really simple message that like a six-year-old and an eight-year-old can really understand this is my family throwing up you know the workers will rise up and kill all the rich got it and you as a kid in school you could look around your classroom and be like when the revolution comes they're gonna kill him first you know I'm not joking this is [Laughter] childlike in its simplicity and you know I think a lot of world religions are like that I think Catholicism Catholicism is probably a religion only children can appreciate maybe after age 10 the Catholicism becomes impossible to appreciate you know but you know veganism is simple enough for children to understand and in this case that's not a terrible evil regretable thing it's it's simple enough for children to understand and then it's true it's complex enough that a bunch of us middle-aged people can debate for hours and hours how to how to implement a