No More Masks (vs. Joey Carbstrong & Cube of Truth)

and Venice yen it's not normal Joey
what's normal is to hear a question like the one I asked and actually respond in an interested open-minded manner is to actually be capable of discussing what's going on your movement and whether or not I can be improved and whether you can invite new people to come in and join okay you think if only I join a Facebook group and volunteer to show up everything we find and it's the exact opposite my experience is not unique this is a hyper conformist authoritarian top-down organization where nobody is allowed to ask a simple question nobody's allowed to show any signs of independent thought and even in my case I asked a totally reasonable question and look who I'm treated even by you Joey how do you think the local organ organizers regard me they regard me as a threat in your organization as you've designed it any signs of independent thought or a threat and it's no surprise because you used to be a cult member of durian writers dirty backward brain-dead cult in Chiang Mai and you've brought the same attitudes to this new organization the same way nobody was allowed to question Turing writer nobody was allowed to question just even the effectiveness of the method nobody was allowed to question the diet nobody was allowed to question the insane health claims no one was allowed to question whether not durianrider actually had the cure for Crohn's disease and the cure for schizophrenia and all this nonsense metabolic damage in the same way you're sitting up another hyper conformist top-down authoritarian little cult and you don't even realize you're doing it because that's what you're used to that's the background you come out of Joey whatever it is you have to offer to the vegan movement whether it's that you're a talented musician or an architect or a medical doctor or personal trainer or a bikini model or you're a struggling scholar of Asian languages and politics in history or you work at a McDonald's and you wish you could quit your job because you're vegan and you have to cook me every day and you're struggling to scrape by at minimum wage whatever your situation is in life whatever perspective you have to bring to the movement that contribution is not going to be made standing in silence wearing a mask I don't support anonymous as an Internet terrorist group I don't support anonymous for the voiceless I don't think it is a well thought out method or strategy or methodology I think that anonymity brings out the worst in human behavior it brings the worst in human behavior here on the Internet and when we are dealing with people face to face or should I say face to mask for the future of this movement what I really like to see everybody doing is taking the masks off [Music] and that is yen Joey Karp strong says I hope you're not deliberately excluding the most pivotal part of the cube the outreach to make your argument stronger spelling error on your why oh you apostrophe re but I continue they're not just standing there silent there are vegan outreaches who are influencing real people to change hardly a waste of time add up the thousands who have an influence to give up animal products in this action alone and if the millions of views reached by people watching my videos and by attending AV cubes hardly a waste of time the vegan movement is growing fast and it's largely because of grassroots activism you got me I didn't research the masks I was too busy researching the dairy industry and convincing people to stop engaging animal abuse this is a lousy excuse I just say it's mind-blowing to me so you never thought to Google Guy Fawkes given this is called the Guy Fawkes mask you never thought to check one Wikipedia article and if you think the mass doesn't matter if it were a mask of Adolf Hitler it would matter if it was a mask of Aunt Jemima or Uncle Ben smiling it would matter the fact that you guys engaged in this protest movement in Chiang Mai Thailand during precisely the years when Chiang Mai Thailand was a military dictatorship in which nobody had the right to protest that you developed this method in a context of being white tourists in Thailand protesting in English to people who don't speak English as white people wearing a mask of a smiling white man do you think it would have been different if you had a mask of a smiling Chinese man what if it was Mao Zedong what if it was any Chinese man's features represented on that mask I what if it was of someone from India ethnically there were difference here why is the mass smiling why isn't it frowning or weeping or looking miserable these are really simple questions ass no it's a smiling white man and you guys protested in Thailand in a time when the Thai people themselves have zero zero right to political protest so you see that every day if you follow Thai politics and there's a really strange silence about Thai politics on you know the channel these people YouTube channels like poll Basheer's Channel look guys why don't you just look up the the Wikipedia article there's one called the next tide general election type of the fact that there's been a military dictatorship ruling ruling Thailand for these years the wikipedia article for the current quote-unquote Prime Minister of Thailand I eat the military Generalissimo who took over the government shut down Parliament need prayut chan-ocha there there is no right to protest there is no right to freedom of speech there is no right to criticize the government in Thailand and there has been a major crackdown on dissent of all kinds in Thailand since 2014 and yeah you should care it's it's mind-blowing to me it's mind-blowing to me that you don't care and it's mind-blowing to me that you don't see the significance of this this movement an honest with voiceless developing specifically in Chiang Mai Thailand during that political period with that relationship between white tourists and Thai people who don't speak English and specifically of course those were also the same years where I had my conflict with durianrider ended up in court and Thailand and Kay in theory the court case is still ongoing and you guys were on during writers side right [Music] [Applause] [Music] here with joe cobb strong with the cobra [ __ ] Joey table strong okay cough inaudible secondes in here second year we're all lifting it well raising each other's expectations we're holding each other to a sort of raising the bar and you know it's just it's inspiring and it gives you this fire inside of yet that's why you never met up with me sir I was there to meet with any vegan activists who would talk to me during all those years in Thailand and you Joey and you Paul Bashir you never did but anyway yeah these questions that work out worth asking yeah Amil question the mask of what's the matter with you Joey you've been backing this for two years or something you never question what does this mask mean what does it mean from the perception of a Thai person in Thailand what does it mean in the perception of a white person in California I mean you know sure what does it mean ultimately when you have black people I mean how would you feel if a group of African activists came and protested in Australia and they're black African people wearing a black mask of a smiling black man right away it's if you may not know who the mask is up maybe them the mask does represent a specific historical figure you have no idea well you guys are claiming that the advantage of your method of protest are the aesthetics the aesthetics and the sales tactics I see a lot of holes here in the aesthetics and the sales tax do you guys are using I don't know why I don't know why you guys can't in a relaxed a detached way asking answer these questions the mask could be anything you could have a mask or people are wearing a pig mask or a dog mask or a chicken mask and you're not you're wearing this specific mask the Guy Fawkes mask and you know you're not open to having any discussion about why that is or whether or not that could be approved or whether or not it's actually a good use of people's time to stand in silence just so they can wear that mask this mask thank you there's mats that you think is so meaningful but at the same time you're not in any way willing to question discuss the meaning of a quote did you forget to mention the slaughter has footage that thousands are supposed to buy this action or are you just narrowing it down to people standing there silent and wasting time also why I asked you to attend a cube did you go ahead and leave a long critical question on AV s page instead of simply asking them if you could participate in the cube not sure what your intentions were here why not try to engage in discussion by inbox or email with organizers or bring your ideas forward if you truly want to help the or go because Joey you're part of a top-down hierarchical organization in which nobody will talk to me nobody will talk to me nobody will listen nobody is willing to even let me attend a protest in silence you've got problems with your organization and the purpose of this video is to draw your attention to them you're in denial you think that if I just talk to Paul Bashir all the problems will be solved Paul Bashir refuses to talk to me okay you think if only I join a Facebook group and volunteer to show up everything will be fine and it's the exact opposite my experience is not unique this is a hyper conformist authoritarian top-down organization where nobody is allowed to ask a simple question nobody's allowed to show any signs of independent thought and even in my case I asked a totally reasonable question which you here gloss as long critical unreasonable which it wasn't and look who I'm treated even by you Joey how do you think the local or graphic organizers regard me they regard me as a threat in your organization as you've designed it any signs of independent thought or a threat and it's no surprise because you used to be a cult member of durian writers dirty backward brain-dead cult in Chiangmai and you've brought the same attitudes to this new organization the same way nobody was allowed to question Turing writer nobody was allowed to question just even the effectiveness of the method nobody was allowed to question the diet nobody would want to question the insane health claims no one was allowed to question whether or not durianrider actually had the cure for Crohn's disease and the cure for schizophrenia and all this nonsense metabolic damage in the same way you're sitting up another hyper conformist top-down authoritarian little cult and you don't even realize you're doing it because that's what you're used to that's the background you come out of Joey I think it's I think if the background publisher comes out of also so you guys just regard that as normal and it's not it's not normal Joey what's normal is to hear or question like the one I asked and respond in an interested open-minded manner is to actually be capable of discussing what's going on your movement and whether or not I can be improved and whether not you can invite new people to come in and join that's not what's up all right so look there are red flags here either you're gonna pay attention to them or you're gonna disregard them it is what it is because Co continues again you have zero experience at cubes doing outreach so from the outside looking in I can understand why you've yet to see the value in it you're under estimating this action a lot I still dis growth here so I don't put the value over to zero as I just said I think there is some value in it but you're only making an argument for tabling the problems are with all the distinctive elements of this form of activism but if you're just gonna make a general plea for how great it is to engage in conversations with strangers tabeling and many other forms of activism also involving conversations with strangers many other forms of activism involve showing people slaughterhouse footage and they don't require like 15 people to stand in silence wearing a mask and the particular mask I disagree with and have problems with as they're raised okay you can shoot you can do the same thing with mannequins you could do the same thing with at a table you could mount the screen on a side of a van you can do there are a lot of ways to do pause developer region education and there were a lot of questions we asked you all right my reply to that was I noticed one that Joey has consistently never responded well my criticism actually is and two he consistently ignores the extent to which it is constructive criticism it would be pretty easy to take my comments on board recognize that there are some problems and some room for improvement rather than dismissing and demonizing what I'm pointing out here for example some people get to talk and some people are expected to stand sounds for four hours doing a job that could be done by a mannequin or an easel and two there were real issues of hierarchy and power-monger involved that even exclude someone like myself from an organization claiming to be all inclusive it really isn't okay here's his response to that if it is in fact constructive criticism like you say and not just finding things to criticize like it seems from my perspective then why haven't you acknowledged anything good about an organization there's now influenced thousands to go vegan and it's given many vegans about it from true throughout Joey wanted trance the same question about during Ryder well I don't why do am I just finding things to quit you did this before Joey we've been through this before do you recognize your own mentality here do you recognize what you're doing respond to any criticism by shutting the person down claiming oh but we've helped thousands of vegans this is what you did for during writer for years way past the point of absurdity Joey you're the one needs to be a little bit so pretty clear I offered completely constructive completely completely reasonable criticism of this organization and you respond to it the same way you used to respond to people pointing out the during writers diet doesn't make any sense or that during writers crazy statements about homosexuality don't make sense whatever the conference today was or durianrider claiming that other people are pedophiles on the internet and that they can be hunted down and stabbed and beaten up and taken to the police say during Ryder did so much wrong and you kept making these same excuses for them you kept making the same excuse for freely - so dude you got to look in the mirror on this one because you still have the same mentality you're just applying it to another organization there's no doubt it's a better organization it's way better than what durham writer is doing no question but there's still there are still some problems with criticizing there's still some questions worth asking including my own experience why are you dismissing that I had a really negative experience can't I come on the internet and talk about my own negative experience oh no that same thing with during writer and freely write nobody nobody gets to come on the internet and talk about the fact that freelee's diet didn't work for them Aaron Janice doesn't get to come on the internet and talk about the fact that she thinks freely is an embarrassment to the vegan movement and his dragon and Venus there but no no no everyone has to go out and shut down those voices of dissent shut down any possible discussion or debate you have to have an ultra conformist talk down hierarchical movement that's what freelee and durianrider had even though it was a non movement that accomplished absolutely nothing it accomplished nothing but but it reached thousands of people that excuse is always there um I found your criticism of James in the comments section a bit harsh and not very constructive by the way everyone is trying their best oh ok really Joey is Paul Bashir trying his best I I'm actually questioning whether or not you guys are trying your best I know you are you trying your best you never even looked up what the meaning of the mask was you never looked up on Wikipedia Guy Fawkes mask and you weren't willing to engage in those question I don't think you are doing your best Julie I think that stuff is really minimal it's a really low level of effort that anyone could ask of you is to be willing to question and discuss why this mask rather than another mask if you were wearing the mask of Adolf Hitler maybe you'd say you're making a point that the you know slaughter of these animals is similar to the Holocaust would the mask of Adolf Hitler be smiling or would it be frowning and we pink some people are gonna respond to the mask of Adolf Hitler positively and some are gonna respond to it negatively so you'd have a discussion there but what that's a good that's a good tactic what about just having the mask of an animal a cow or a pig and it's weeping not smiling I don't know yes a million approaches to this tell you one thing if you wore the mask of the Prime Minister of Thailand if you were in Thailand in your protest in any way seemed like a political protest all of you would be in jail you'd be kicked out of the country because you guys developed this at a time when Thailand was a repressive military dictatorship with no right to public protest for anyone and that discussion that discussion is really worth having and that is very strangely absent from the YouTube channels and websites of Joey carp strong and polish sure I don't think you guys are doing your best I don't think you're asking some bare minimum questions that really do need to be asked that's what we're here for on this channel a policy Oh everyone is trying their best and if you do see something you don't like with someone that hit them up an email like you deal with me which I appreciate and let them know personally saying this if there is in fact power mongering happening with a navy I've yet to see it myself this is problematic and needs to be addressed so it hasn't happened though has a Joey you aren't getting in touch with anonymous for the voiceless in Victoria saying let me let alone is already in let this guy in let this guy about what she'll let him come to your protest you weren't getting in touch with them Vancouver and neither is Paul Bashir and right at this moment right during these last couple of weeks when we've talked about this on my channel during these last couple of days Paul Bashir has been in Vancouver he's been in touch with exactly these people so you guys have a red flag you have an example of power mongering and you sing it should be addressed but you don't address it you don't solve the problem you point the victor finger back in me you say it's my fault because I dare to raise a question just snow what's happening um I think consulting with the founders in an email will be productive if you truly want to help out and prove things again other people have now tried to contact publisher behalf people have talked to him face to face or yeah I think in blue yeah both cases activist news talk to him face to face as well as by Skype and email on what have you and know the answer from Paul Bashir is no he won't talk to me so no means no so I know you assume this guy's an angel but that's not my experience that's not the evidence I have in front of me also the guys in the cube are circulated from cube to outreach and vice versa it's great for newcomers who are developing confidence with the outrage or too nervous to speak to people anyways well you were clearly an intelligent village get in well researched person to as many strong points which I believe could be very beneficial to moving in many ways I just hope you're channeling you're channeling these strengths with a good intention and in the most productive way possible great so that's also what I'm doing in criticizing this movement I'm talking about whether or not this is the most productive way possible to use our time you know if I'm such a great productive and intelligent person as you say if this flattery why why can't I participate in anonymous to the voiceless I've already said why in this video because this is a hyper conformist hierarchical organization where people at me aren't allowed to participate because if we participate we ask questions we engage in discussion about politics its political movement you should be open to this kind of stuff but you're not why am i excluded why was I excluded where as vegan gains was not excluded it's telling it's a telling example when I think it's an example you guys you guys may meditate on you may reflect on and maybe this will lead to you know a new statement in your policy because I know it's only recently that you guys develop this policy of being all inclusive of including people regardless of what their positions are maybe you need to really define and clearly send out guidance to all the AV organizations about what it means and what the consequences are for excluding someone like me you say Joey I've got something positive to contribute well what happens when somebody tries to contribute and he can we get a reply here from mojo saying yes as I said Joyce there's someone who I don't know if you did it in a live stream or in some context this guy talked to Joey text message and I know as I said to Joey the fact that the group kicked you out of something like a Facebook group for even raising your eyebrow it's something that did tells me all I need to know about them also the fact that Joey was complaining in his comment asking you why you left quote-unquote a long critical question shows me where his head is at when it comes this group so yeah we get into a kind of ultra conformist ultra hierarchical situation where nobody's going to willing to question and nobody's allowed to ask these kinds of questions next comment the master there to attract people to the display of slaughterers footage so the Overeaters could start a conversation with the people that seem interested it's not demeaning to the people wearing the mask and to their potential because most people are happy to be contributing this process without having to interact with people with veganism which not everybody is ready to do or very good at the popularity of anonymous for the voiceless is a way for lots of vegans to become activists in a very reasonable and non-aggressive way which I see is a good thing okay totally reasonable question my reply is I think my criticism is constructive the queue method could be pretty easily improved but let's start by recognizing the very real problems it now has I wouldn't say that everything about cube is bad but what's good about it isn't distinctive or peculiar the good aspects are basically identical to tabling in general ie setting up a table and just talking to people so tabling is a term used in politics you can probably guess what it means at some kind of a festival or political event or street fair that you pay to rent a booth set up a table maybe you have some pamphlets books buttons you may have a video screen showing slaughterous or as you sit at a table and you engage people in conversations you do standard outreach so cube didn't invent that an office of the voiceless didn't feather that's not what I'm going to be responding to this discussion I'm gonna be responding to and criticizing the distinctive and unique ethic the unique aspects of the approach publisher is propounding which includes his experience in sales his use of sales tactics and sales terminology includes his use of this mask rather than other masks or no masks at all and the assumption that intelligent talented hard-working human beings are gonna spend four hours a week standing in silence just to put on this so-called aesthetic display but no if you're saying to me that anonymous for the voiceless shouldn't be criticized because the basic concept of talking to people is so is so wonderful come on this excuse could be used for anything anymore what what excuses are you willing to make for freelee and durianrider then what excuses they're willing make for people with ethically mammals what excuse me one way for me because no no form of activism is gonna have zero efficacy all right well I'm asking the questions of how can we use our time more effectively or most effectively no one's gonna claim that any form of outrage has zero impact but yeah standing in silence could come close finally a comment from crazy cow man I'm definitely overdue to do a response to crazy comments other comments from more than a month ago crazy cow man says I will say that eyes'll does speak quite harshly I myself of attended cubes and I think the overreach and discussion is definitely valuable however there was no question that standing holding a TV is a waste of time for the large part and guys that is the very reasonable criticism I started off offering in the first place I like to end these videos on a positive note ultimately the future of the vegan movement is you but I'm gonna tell you something else whatever it is you have to offer to the vegan movement whether it's that you're a talented musician or an architect or a medical doctor or personal trainer or a bikini model or you're a struggling scholar of Asian languages and politics in history or you work at a McDonald's and you wish you could quit your job because you're vegan and you have to cook me every day and you're struggling to scrape by and wage whatever your situation is life whatever perspective you have to bring to the movement that contribution is not going to be made standing in silence wearing a mask I don't support anonymous as an internet terrorist group I don't support anonymous for the voiceless I don't think it is a well thought out method or strategy or methodology I am sure I could meet intelligent well-intentioned people through anonymous for the voiceless if I were not actively excluded from participating that group in any way okay I think that anonymity brings out the worst in human behavior it brings out the worst in human behavior here on the Internet and when we are dealing with people face to face or should I say face to mask for the future of this movement what I'd really like to see everybody doing is taking the masks off literally and figuratively if you're gonna come here on YouTube and talk keep it real whatever it is you have to contribute whether you're Joey carve strong or Paul Bashir or freely or me someone I've never heard of yet you have some experience some perspective some thoughts some feelings some talent you can contribute I tried to contribute by writing a children's storybook in Chinese getting that illustrated and published I think a children's storybook can be a meaningful form of activism certainly there are so many forms of activism that could be meaningful you have to look at what you've got to offer what creative potential you've got and how to use it but whether it's in the moment of doing that activism itself or in the planning and discussions that are before and after the activism what's going on here online on YouTube right now take off the mask the future of the vegan movement is you and you and you but the future of the vegan movement we're gonna find it fumbling our way along by asking these kinds of difficult questions engaging in this kind of criticism self-criticism reflection etc and it's got to be with the mask off keep it real a bonus yen