Fake Diet, Real Politics: fads & the future of Veganism.
18 May 2016 [link youtube]
Youtube Automatic Transcription
the core value that gets lost here on
the Internet is the value of Tolerance okay you can't just cooperate with people who agree with you on every little thing or on every big fundamental thing you know you want to make a difference in habitat conservation guess what the majority of people who care about keeping the forests intact preserving the lives of wild animals are going to turn out to be hunters they're not just meat eaters they're evil hunters that's you're going to cooperate with here in Canada who cares about the Bears it's not vegans I wish it was I wish I could tell you there were millions of vegans in Canada who care about you know wild bear habitat there's a tiny number of vegans and they're going to have to learn to cooperate with people of fundamental political differences from them with the in veganism not everyone is left-wing some people are left-wing some people are right-wing some people are in the center you've got to learn to get organized you've got to learn to work with people who are much more different from you in a deep way than the kind of shallow differences that people are attacking each other or here on the Internet I see so many vegans especially like high carb vegans or whatever which there's nothing wrong with that but I see so many telling people that you can literally eat unlimited calories as its unlimited like 6,000 calories a day and stay lean or not gain weight and that's just not physically possible for any animal on the planet to overeat no matter what macronutrients are you is not possible for any animals on this planet like over eat that much and not gain weight so that's just a lie and I don't know why we're spreading it like what the whole it's I guess it's just to encourage people to go like follow this compassionate lifestyle and be like well you can do this and get skinny because people are so interested in being thin and being fit but they think they can spread that and bring them to mechanism but honestly a lot of people will believe that come to veganism for that sole reason see that it doesn't work and think veganism as a whole is not worth it so it backfires so when you're spreading these radical and false ideas you're just reiterating the fact in these none or it means like all the boys mind that vegans are these like crazy radicals and you're lying to them like why would you ever lie anyways this video is not about diet or exercise but it is about veganism the message a return to most often on this channel is fundamentally very positive because what I tell people again and again is that profound social change is possible here and now in our lifetimes in the next 10 years however I also say if you want that change you have to go and get it you have to make it happen I do not encourage anyone to believe that they can just post beautiful pictures on Instagram and wait for the world to change around them my model of activism is active in a word um what does it mean to influence people I had a response fan of mine drew my attention to this on Instagram this woman who have never spoken to to my knowledge he's never sent me an email as possible she didn't under another name she writes I've been inspired by as Elmas are about the sale on YouTube to be more active in the vegan / green community as it cannot be all about yoga pants and pretty food like it has been for the last few years in order to do so my account is going to switch from English to French so I can talk about important topics and give practical advice to people the country I live in one of the least vegan friendly in the world I've lived in France as a vegan it's true - my dear 650 followers if you decide to unfollow me I will totally understand it and I thank you for the support so far it has been a blessing when you look at what used to be on her blog her Instagram page um it is the type of you know I can't I can't call this lifestyle activism it's the type of celebration of a life of a parent abundance self-indulgence wealth luxury etc that many vegans claim is the most effective form of activism and I don't believe for a minute if you're still watching this channel you probably don't believe for a minute either but you have to take these claims seriously there are people who really do believe it who are not being cynical who are not trying to manipulate you or anyone else there are people who sincerely wanted to make the world a better place by taking photographs of food and vacations and you know swimming in the ocean and where vases in this stuff and in some cases they were spawn to the type of critique I have posted here on the internet as this woman did because they really sincerely want those things they really sincerely want to make the world a better place and then at some point they start thinking about how the means the methods how are they going to make the world a better place and my channel offers a very different set of answers to those questions now likewise I remember talking about this with Hania I've talked about this with all kinds of people I talked about this with direct action everywhere on the other extreme there are people who have been protesting in the streets you know holding up signs and chanting and after they do that for a while they again start to reconsider how reconsider they still want the same things they still want to make the world a better place but they think there has got to be a better way to do it that numb attending the same protest again marching up and down the same street again shouting at as strangers with a sign the animals please don't hate chicken want to live just as much as a dog cat love no homes they just wanted to live too and they deserve their life and right now their eggs and their milk and their bodies are on plates inside this restaurant no poor people are crazy Jack I'm eccentric and some of those people come to my channel and likewise they suddenly are given a very different set of answers a very different set of questions and a very different kind of toolkit for addressing what kind of change we can bring about in the next 10 years um how we can live meaningful lives and pursue that change you know without without having to live in a cave without having to sacrifice everything else that that matters to us in this life so this is the kind of influence I have had on people that I've had on some people some people who used to just be lifestyle activists come to my channel and are influenced to start thinking much more seriously about shall we say real activism political activism and some people who already deeply engaged with political activism begin thinking about effective activism and I hear about this through email but now just in the last few weeks I've had a patreon open I really encourage you guys to pay that $1 to join that patreon not because the dollar goes to me but boy the $1 fee for entry means that the quality of discussions we have in the comments on that patreon page it's way way higher than what you get in a comment section on YouTube and there are some people who you know in responding to my channel have really been thinking about methods of community organization activism lately I've been talking a lot to Aimee and Alexa people who have some prior experience with community organization and are now looking at methods of how to make a difference in the town they live how to organize whatever talent they've got local people interested to to bring both social change so it's very gratifying to me to see you know those outcomes to see people rolling up their sleeves and trying to make a positive difference in the world even though I'm packing up to move to China I can't get involved with organizing a political movement here in Canada I can't invoke organizing a political movement of any kind anywhere within the next pardon me twelve months to a year the type of influence I've had even if it is on a small number of people has been positive at a time when other vegans were telling everyone to drop at a school I was the one guy telling people to stay in school at a time when Gary Yourofsky was talking about violence and illegal activity I was talking in a systematic way about legal democratic methods of making social change and the other big topic I've talked about from my perspective is tolerance it's very much relevant to what we're saying this in this video look up an old video I have here called vegans kill rats and if you look at the subtitle the point of that video it's not just about rats it's not just about the fact that vegans no matter how pious and well intentioned end up in situations where they gotta kill rats very sad but happens happens to the best of us if we're honest about it it's about tolerance you cannot be involved in politics without having profound tolerance for people who are profoundly different from you that woman I just quoted from Instagram living somewhere in France apparently living a beautiful lifestyle apparently swimming in the ocean and eating plates of fabulous food I doubt that's her whole life but that's how it looks on Instagram I'm sure she has many many differences from a profound difference it's hard for me to guess how different birds use but she's able to look at my channel she may disagree with 50% of what I say find what's useful in it analyze it apply it to her own life and she's taken a really positive influence from these discussions I've been having on this channel you seen any recently interview I have an interview on this channel with an 18 year old girl who's only been vegan for a few months she's in university now and she's wanting to become an activist they're not that many views on that video it's an hour-long discussion she was asking me for my advice on on how to make something happen so you know these are the positive spin-offs of this channel and what I do on this channel which is not about diet it's not what exercise don't know anyone could miss something that obvious but I think the core value that gets lost here on the Internet is the value of Tolerance okay you can't just cooperate with people who agree with you on every little thing or on every big fundamental thing you know you want to make a difference in habitat conservation guess what the majority of people who care about keeping the forests intact preserving the lives of wild animals are going to turn out to be hunters they're not just meat eaters they're evil hunters that's you're going to cooperate with here in Canada who cares about the Bears it's not vegans I wish it was I wish I could tell you there were millions of vegans in Canada who care about you know wild bear habitat there's a tiny number of vegans and they're gonna have to learn to cooperate with people of fundamental political differences from them within veganism not everyone is left-wing some people are left-wing some people are right-wing some people are in the center you've got to learn to get organized you've got to get learned you've got to learn to work with people who are much more different from you in a deep way than the kind of shallow differences that people are attacking each other for here on the Internet who wears too much makeup everybody everybody except me wears too much makeup all right I'm not I'm not starting fights over there it's not it's not we should be discussing uh in a really deep sense you need to have mastered tolerance in all its implications to do politics including this very strange attenuated form of political organization we're doing right now by having this conversation through a video camera over the Internet okay I've reached out to a lot of people I have this much in common with their ethical vegan but everything else about them is different real tolerance on my part it's a real willingness to reach out find common ground try to make something positive happen in the future try to set up some basis for cooperation collaboration long term I'm thinking for the next five years the next 10 years look at the people I've interviewed on this channel violent vegan you know his name's a joke he's not really violent what do I have in common with him basically nothing a nice guy happy to talk to him by me I'm reaching these people you've got to give people a chance and you know no nobody gives me a chance I get it I get a lot a lot of hatred from people who don't have this capacity to just see to look at me and say well okay I differ from this guy and some things but what's positive what what can I work with Wow can I cooperate with this person despite whatever differences are there and you know the capacity to tolerate even things about me you may really perceive to be wrong or just politically alien or even immoral you know any of these people I'm going to meet who are on vacation in Thailand they're going to be pretty pretty the differences but I reach out I make that effort Hannah and Jason Haney and Jason are two vegan activists living in Israel currently when they reached out to me I was surprised we don't have a lot in common I thought they might hate me you know I was delighted to find they don't hate me they've been following my channel for a while they were fans of my work they were really excited to talk to me great we have differences but I'm looking to build on the common ground you know I tolerate those differences so far as you know I think both Jason and Hannah have made anti-vaccine statements you guys may know I'm pro science I'm Pro vaccine in general and pro modern medicine I am definitely anything as far as I know that's that's the difference between us guess what I'm not saying they're right I must say it's okay I tolerate it and I see the good in them and I try to cooperate in collaborate with them and I'm thinking long term I'm not thinking about getting an extra 100 views on YouTube by starting a fight and insulting someone and tearing them down today that's really short-term thinking it's really counterproductive that's really deeply negative and we all need to move past that paradigm all right there are some things you can't tolerate I've talked about political extremism on this channel you know extreme right-wing extreme left-wing there are some people you can't cooperate with fine be honest with yourself be honest with them move on it happens but I mean within limits I got email from people asking why I didn't attack penny and Jason why I didn't care than them my purpose in life is not to attack anyone it's try to make something positive happen and people have been deeply influenced by an ultra hostile paradigm presented by people like freelee and durianrider who make their living by generating needless conflict demonstrating needless hostility and providing a type of entertainment basically by by starting fights over nothing now one of my catchphrases is that I'm not a nice guy and I don't even pretend to be a nice guy when I think someone is an idiot I do say they're an idiot what I think someone is wrong I say they're wrong many of you will have tuned into this video expecting me to call Julia Bohr a girl who's been denouncing me on the internet lately to call her an idiot I do not think she's an idiot I don't there are many videos in which she acts like a fool but I actually do not think she's stupid what she is jealous of me because I can smash it as much rice and jam and sugar and whatever good stuff I can vegan pizza without having a drop of guilt and knowing that I do billing anyways in like a couple of years and then she will be staying there jealous knocking on her root echoes and be like [ __ ] this [ __ ] and she was still be sitting there under her blanket in front of her laptop writing rage comments excuse me where's my cucumber stop being frustrated little [ __ ] just because I tell the truth and you [ __ ] know it I believe her age is 16 when I sent her an email I assumed she was 19 or older because I assumed her parents would not allow her to do the things she's been doing including like making trips to Thailand alone I don't know who lets their sixteen-year-old daughter go to Thailand I don't know probably if you by the end of this video you'll be convinced you shouldn't let your 1600 daughter have a have an iPhone or use the Internet I mean you may ask yourself a lot of questions about parenting for this video but look I I don't think julia borer is an idiot and I'm not here to call her an idiot not at all those of you have watched some of her videos maybe shark and say well come on she's saying a lot of stupid stuff well she is very strongly influenced by what I've just mentioned this habitus there's a real anthropology term there's habitus popularized by freelee and durianrider of acting over-the-top attacking people denouncing people and starting fights over nothing over who's wearing too much makeup or some trivial thing instead of doing just stuff and talk about analyze someone's work find what's useful in it for you acknowledge the differences compromise tolerance above all else tolerance and you know work for a better tomorrow right politically or even just socially isn't that what we all should be doing you know why you going to Thailand are you going to tie line to make friends go on telling to make enemies going to this big vegan summit what are you going for even me I'm going to make friends I'm looking for people I can work with I want to know people 10 years from now that I met today for me it's a long game alright I'm not playing for an extra 1000 views this week or an extra 10,000 subscribers this month not my game I really want to build institutions I really want to change the world have given so many examples of how attainable that is Mothers Against Drunk Driving or any of these other humble civil society organizations the gay rights advocacy groups that God organized got an office really change the world sure I want to make something positive happen want to make it happen with you whoever you are watching this and you know Julie abort turns out she's 16 she's going to grow up ten years from now she'll be 26 I see potential in her also to make a positive change in the world I really do I got no hate in my heart for I wasn't writing to her with any hatred in my mind either so I've written hundreds of emails to other vegans just saying hi or telling them I like their YouTube channel or you know starting a conversation over the past several years and probably hundreds of people watching this nail met me that way got an email from me in some cases the email want the other way whatever so I wrote this email to Julia uh say winder second the email just reads this is the whole thing hi Julia I saw your references to dicey tap are you going to chiang mai thailand this year by the way you might get a kick out of some of my videos the link to my channel now um for one thing is you again i assume she was 19 to 21 just because of the nature of her internet presence i guess she has very permissive parents and she's 16 some of you may laugh and say how could you possibly even make that effort you know extend this hand of friendship to julia specifically because her content is so extreme well again there's a difference between being a fool and acting a fool behaving like a fool some of her videos she's acting like a fool but you know she had a she had an interview with a recovering anorexic called the vegan lass and despite the fact that there have been tremendous hostility between the two of them they've been shooting each other in the first half the interview you see that hostility and then at a certain point about halfway through they're both talking to each other like reasonable people you can contrast the angry early part and then they say well it looks like our views are not so different after all i think everyone can make the choice and i think everyone can just go ahead and change their life because happiness is a choice eating the choice of the moment if you have a [ __ ] fridge in your kitchen you can go and open it and eat at any time too okay guys who actually can it seems that despite the fact that Julian I have been each other other's throats it actually seems that our messages actually really came down Elaine and what we've been seeing each other have just kinda taken of TechNet of contents and Cainan twisted and not really understand each other trough which so maybe it's recklessly generous of me to look at a young woman whatever age she was i didn't know who can do that and think well she acts a fool on some of her videos but maybe there's more to her maybe she's a person of some substance given that she could put aside her hostility and work things out with this other youtuber the vegan last because they had been they had been bitter enemies and look I think there all kinds of people have talked to even on this channel if I didn't give people the benefit of the doubt if I didn't give people if I didn't tolerate people if I didn't make that effort I would have never talked to Hannah and everywhere to talk to Jason I never talked to Leah Leah's on this channel I didn't I didn't know what to think of her before we got in touch she could a lot of people who met her about a year ago they said that that leah was a clone was a zombie was a mindless follower of during write and freely people change especially when they're around 20 years old I checked between age 16 and age 26 you think I didn't change we all do we all change in just a few years now I mean here's the problem with during writers influence her reply is and I quote what do you want from the eyes'll are you trying to turn me against the writer you got the wrong person mate [ __ ] off so you know you try but if that's the response you get Moon's right you know try anymore um so my reply was simply to say Julia in five years you're going to look back at this and laugh for yourself and I'm not talking about anything specific I'm not talking about her views on diet or politics or anything else specifically but the fact that you're the type of person who responds to an email like that by telling someone to [ __ ] off you know I think five years from now whatever age she was whatever age you will be I don't know you're gonna look back and laugh at yourself um not cruel not me not provoking anything but I assume that was the end of the conversation okay like I said hi to you I said hi to you because I think we might meet each other in Thailand um if not okay in five years you'll look back at it and see things differently yeah I learned I've learned a lot in every five years of my life let's leave it at that Julia writes back yes I'm going to laugh at the fact that I ever doubted this lifestyle and wasted my time on this shitty conversation haha oh I should mention by the way I'm only posting this publicly because she already did so this is not private correspondence anymore she slightly misrepresented what I said only slightly and she did post her own email publicly on her on her website so I'm not outing this private conversation she already went public with it and she had some pretty hilarious responses from her fans and from my fans also some of my fans wrote in to her I think some of my fans are sincerely concerned for her well-being she continues go head make a video slamming me haha we all know you're not vegan as if you would you wouldn't go after the people who did more for the vegan movement than you ever did and ever will you're just a stupid [ __ ] and a hater who's jealous of Drs success while sitting at your table and bitching haha that's good she included the haha there because otherwise I wouldn't know she was having fun what about interviewing righto for success stories haha when you go to Chiang Mai catch up with vegan Ava she's going to look like freely in a few months you really think veganism is about what you look like because I don't it's not like for me veganism is not about looking like freely it's not about looking like Patrick Stewart it's not about looking like anything it's it's really not I continue but not you just look up righto for noobs who didn't even own a bike or did the lifestyle properly and got frustrated that they gained weight after years of abusing their bodies are you really that [ __ ] [ __ ] that you think years of anorexia will be reversed in two weeks get a grip and some basic logic now I have over 200 videos on my channel of it is needless to say if those of you are my fans I have never discussed anorexia or these issues that mean beyond commenting on durianrider zone claims about anorexia I mean this is not what my channel is about you say righto Ford doesn't work it's actually not what I say if you watch my videos on righto 4 you might find it's more interesting than that but anyway uh yet there are countless examples of people losing weight and thriving on it you hook up with people who are so lazy that they ride a motor scooter to the corner restaurant and spend their time backstabbing freely and Harley and scratching money off their followers what that sounds pretty good freely and Harley help people change their life except for the lazy couch potato frustrated victims like Swayze Hannah or that other chick you interviewed who don't understand adapted thermogenesis ha ha there's no exclamation point here after ha ha so I don't know she's really having fun anymore if you say metabolic damage doesn't exist well what about Katie kookaburra who gained huge weight and got obese on raw till 4 then after 3 years lost it all ha ha ignore that or what yeah well you know these are certainly the pressing issues of our time ah you know I've been writing essays about like you know mass murder in the history of China um political history of Japan Russia I think about a lot of things my time I think about my own career I've been applying for jobs you know what I talked about within veganism also I'd like to think is actually much more substantive than this but hey you're a loser aisel who got his success of slapping dr and fls bum like all your other friends I'm so sorry for you having to sweat in front of your weird ball microphone and computer screen breathing in your farts sweat and smell of crisps well you [ __ ] about people who are better than you will ever dream to be well meet my friends right up steep climbs in the sunshine feeling amazing laughing and going for adventures best regards Julia um I don't know where you got the idea that my life is boring I have had a very very interesting life and my life has included a long-distance cycling my life has included long-distance cycling in Thailand and long-distance cycling up steep climbs I went up one of the steepest doorstep is a joke homeboy I went up [ __ ] Fah which is also known as Poochie fuh a northern dialect issue there I went up so called blue Melton and I had to sleep at the Buddhist monastery at the top of that mountain as a hell of a story if I were to tell it I have known a you know what's a real adventure to me a vacation is not an adventure to me doing humanitarian work is a real adventure to me real danger political danger putting your life on the line for something meaningful that's an adventure paying money to go on a ride at a theme park is not an adventure and paying money to go on vacation and ride a bicycle is not adventure but I mean you know I can remember it was risking my life back when I was doing humanitarian work I did just use a bicycle as a means of transport to get from one village to another and sometimes that was risking my life in some ways and there were some real adventures and some funny stories that came out of that and so on that was a that was when the last of the wild jungle was being cut down in the northwest of Laos and the Berner border with Myanmar today I assume that jungle is all gone and that was when the roads were not paved that's when you're talking about you know dirt roads logging trails third world conditions no electricity etc you know no drinking water you got to boil the water before I've had adventures and ironically I've had adventures in that part of Asia and I've had adventures involving bicycles but that was not the meaning of life for me I was doing humanitarian work I was doing language research was doing historical research I was doing NGO related research research related to the charity work you know applied research and you know I was also preparing myself for a lifetime of being a scholar and intellectual sinking a lot of time into everything from political history but also the history of Buddhism etc I was cultivating myself for career as a specialist and I now do not expect to ever have a career specialist so I don't know I don't know why you think my life is boring or that's lacked adventure or even that it's lacked long-distance cycling I think my long-distance cycling credentials are a lot better than yours actually Julia but hey you know welcome welcome to the club again I don't think Julia's an idiot um all of this she's doing in her second language I speak German I learned German in three months I could make a lot of money writing a book called how to learn German in three months I still speak German okay from those three months of intense study I I haven't really spoken German in more than 10 years maybe like closer to 20 years now but there's no way I could carry on this discourse in German or in Chinese or in any other language I wonder if 10 years from now I'll be able to come on YouTube and speak about veganism in Chinese so I respect Julia and you know I think in the next few years at a minimum her experience with veganism she's going to really improve her ability to communicate in English I have no concerns about her gaining weight or losing weight I see that stuff is easy and I think she can attain all her goals as an athlete no problem why not the problem what I see for her is is the ego trip is that cult-like effect that the durianrider and frilly thing has on her but I think she'll grow out of it and I mean the last thing I said to her I sent one more message where I just said look I revise my estimate instead of saying you'll look back on this in five years and laugh I think you'll look back in five months and laugh and that's not an insult you know it's a compliment and a lot of people have gotten in touch with me through email through my patreon again sign up for my patreon for those discussions saying how much their view of the world changed in just one year becoming vegan already is a huge change in your view of the world and then some people go through a period of believing in crazy pseudoscience or crazy diets or crazy forms of activism like I was showing earlier you know going into a restaurant and screaming at people having these emotional outpourings um and within a few months or within a few years people adapt they learn they change they move on and you know that's what's going to happen to Julia and I'm happy for you know uh we all got to grow up and I can't do the grown-up for you
the Internet is the value of Tolerance okay you can't just cooperate with people who agree with you on every little thing or on every big fundamental thing you know you want to make a difference in habitat conservation guess what the majority of people who care about keeping the forests intact preserving the lives of wild animals are going to turn out to be hunters they're not just meat eaters they're evil hunters that's you're going to cooperate with here in Canada who cares about the Bears it's not vegans I wish it was I wish I could tell you there were millions of vegans in Canada who care about you know wild bear habitat there's a tiny number of vegans and they're going to have to learn to cooperate with people of fundamental political differences from them with the in veganism not everyone is left-wing some people are left-wing some people are right-wing some people are in the center you've got to learn to get organized you've got to learn to work with people who are much more different from you in a deep way than the kind of shallow differences that people are attacking each other or here on the Internet I see so many vegans especially like high carb vegans or whatever which there's nothing wrong with that but I see so many telling people that you can literally eat unlimited calories as its unlimited like 6,000 calories a day and stay lean or not gain weight and that's just not physically possible for any animal on the planet to overeat no matter what macronutrients are you is not possible for any animals on this planet like over eat that much and not gain weight so that's just a lie and I don't know why we're spreading it like what the whole it's I guess it's just to encourage people to go like follow this compassionate lifestyle and be like well you can do this and get skinny because people are so interested in being thin and being fit but they think they can spread that and bring them to mechanism but honestly a lot of people will believe that come to veganism for that sole reason see that it doesn't work and think veganism as a whole is not worth it so it backfires so when you're spreading these radical and false ideas you're just reiterating the fact in these none or it means like all the boys mind that vegans are these like crazy radicals and you're lying to them like why would you ever lie anyways this video is not about diet or exercise but it is about veganism the message a return to most often on this channel is fundamentally very positive because what I tell people again and again is that profound social change is possible here and now in our lifetimes in the next 10 years however I also say if you want that change you have to go and get it you have to make it happen I do not encourage anyone to believe that they can just post beautiful pictures on Instagram and wait for the world to change around them my model of activism is active in a word um what does it mean to influence people I had a response fan of mine drew my attention to this on Instagram this woman who have never spoken to to my knowledge he's never sent me an email as possible she didn't under another name she writes I've been inspired by as Elmas are about the sale on YouTube to be more active in the vegan / green community as it cannot be all about yoga pants and pretty food like it has been for the last few years in order to do so my account is going to switch from English to French so I can talk about important topics and give practical advice to people the country I live in one of the least vegan friendly in the world I've lived in France as a vegan it's true - my dear 650 followers if you decide to unfollow me I will totally understand it and I thank you for the support so far it has been a blessing when you look at what used to be on her blog her Instagram page um it is the type of you know I can't I can't call this lifestyle activism it's the type of celebration of a life of a parent abundance self-indulgence wealth luxury etc that many vegans claim is the most effective form of activism and I don't believe for a minute if you're still watching this channel you probably don't believe for a minute either but you have to take these claims seriously there are people who really do believe it who are not being cynical who are not trying to manipulate you or anyone else there are people who sincerely wanted to make the world a better place by taking photographs of food and vacations and you know swimming in the ocean and where vases in this stuff and in some cases they were spawn to the type of critique I have posted here on the internet as this woman did because they really sincerely want those things they really sincerely want to make the world a better place and then at some point they start thinking about how the means the methods how are they going to make the world a better place and my channel offers a very different set of answers to those questions now likewise I remember talking about this with Hania I've talked about this with all kinds of people I talked about this with direct action everywhere on the other extreme there are people who have been protesting in the streets you know holding up signs and chanting and after they do that for a while they again start to reconsider how reconsider they still want the same things they still want to make the world a better place but they think there has got to be a better way to do it that numb attending the same protest again marching up and down the same street again shouting at as strangers with a sign the animals please don't hate chicken want to live just as much as a dog cat love no homes they just wanted to live too and they deserve their life and right now their eggs and their milk and their bodies are on plates inside this restaurant no poor people are crazy Jack I'm eccentric and some of those people come to my channel and likewise they suddenly are given a very different set of answers a very different set of questions and a very different kind of toolkit for addressing what kind of change we can bring about in the next 10 years um how we can live meaningful lives and pursue that change you know without without having to live in a cave without having to sacrifice everything else that that matters to us in this life so this is the kind of influence I have had on people that I've had on some people some people who used to just be lifestyle activists come to my channel and are influenced to start thinking much more seriously about shall we say real activism political activism and some people who already deeply engaged with political activism begin thinking about effective activism and I hear about this through email but now just in the last few weeks I've had a patreon open I really encourage you guys to pay that $1 to join that patreon not because the dollar goes to me but boy the $1 fee for entry means that the quality of discussions we have in the comments on that patreon page it's way way higher than what you get in a comment section on YouTube and there are some people who you know in responding to my channel have really been thinking about methods of community organization activism lately I've been talking a lot to Aimee and Alexa people who have some prior experience with community organization and are now looking at methods of how to make a difference in the town they live how to organize whatever talent they've got local people interested to to bring both social change so it's very gratifying to me to see you know those outcomes to see people rolling up their sleeves and trying to make a positive difference in the world even though I'm packing up to move to China I can't get involved with organizing a political movement here in Canada I can't invoke organizing a political movement of any kind anywhere within the next pardon me twelve months to a year the type of influence I've had even if it is on a small number of people has been positive at a time when other vegans were telling everyone to drop at a school I was the one guy telling people to stay in school at a time when Gary Yourofsky was talking about violence and illegal activity I was talking in a systematic way about legal democratic methods of making social change and the other big topic I've talked about from my perspective is tolerance it's very much relevant to what we're saying this in this video look up an old video I have here called vegans kill rats and if you look at the subtitle the point of that video it's not just about rats it's not just about the fact that vegans no matter how pious and well intentioned end up in situations where they gotta kill rats very sad but happens happens to the best of us if we're honest about it it's about tolerance you cannot be involved in politics without having profound tolerance for people who are profoundly different from you that woman I just quoted from Instagram living somewhere in France apparently living a beautiful lifestyle apparently swimming in the ocean and eating plates of fabulous food I doubt that's her whole life but that's how it looks on Instagram I'm sure she has many many differences from a profound difference it's hard for me to guess how different birds use but she's able to look at my channel she may disagree with 50% of what I say find what's useful in it analyze it apply it to her own life and she's taken a really positive influence from these discussions I've been having on this channel you seen any recently interview I have an interview on this channel with an 18 year old girl who's only been vegan for a few months she's in university now and she's wanting to become an activist they're not that many views on that video it's an hour-long discussion she was asking me for my advice on on how to make something happen so you know these are the positive spin-offs of this channel and what I do on this channel which is not about diet it's not what exercise don't know anyone could miss something that obvious but I think the core value that gets lost here on the Internet is the value of Tolerance okay you can't just cooperate with people who agree with you on every little thing or on every big fundamental thing you know you want to make a difference in habitat conservation guess what the majority of people who care about keeping the forests intact preserving the lives of wild animals are going to turn out to be hunters they're not just meat eaters they're evil hunters that's you're going to cooperate with here in Canada who cares about the Bears it's not vegans I wish it was I wish I could tell you there were millions of vegans in Canada who care about you know wild bear habitat there's a tiny number of vegans and they're gonna have to learn to cooperate with people of fundamental political differences from them within veganism not everyone is left-wing some people are left-wing some people are right-wing some people are in the center you've got to learn to get organized you've got to get learned you've got to learn to work with people who are much more different from you in a deep way than the kind of shallow differences that people are attacking each other for here on the Internet who wears too much makeup everybody everybody except me wears too much makeup all right I'm not I'm not starting fights over there it's not it's not we should be discussing uh in a really deep sense you need to have mastered tolerance in all its implications to do politics including this very strange attenuated form of political organization we're doing right now by having this conversation through a video camera over the Internet okay I've reached out to a lot of people I have this much in common with their ethical vegan but everything else about them is different real tolerance on my part it's a real willingness to reach out find common ground try to make something positive happen in the future try to set up some basis for cooperation collaboration long term I'm thinking for the next five years the next 10 years look at the people I've interviewed on this channel violent vegan you know his name's a joke he's not really violent what do I have in common with him basically nothing a nice guy happy to talk to him by me I'm reaching these people you've got to give people a chance and you know no nobody gives me a chance I get it I get a lot a lot of hatred from people who don't have this capacity to just see to look at me and say well okay I differ from this guy and some things but what's positive what what can I work with Wow can I cooperate with this person despite whatever differences are there and you know the capacity to tolerate even things about me you may really perceive to be wrong or just politically alien or even immoral you know any of these people I'm going to meet who are on vacation in Thailand they're going to be pretty pretty the differences but I reach out I make that effort Hannah and Jason Haney and Jason are two vegan activists living in Israel currently when they reached out to me I was surprised we don't have a lot in common I thought they might hate me you know I was delighted to find they don't hate me they've been following my channel for a while they were fans of my work they were really excited to talk to me great we have differences but I'm looking to build on the common ground you know I tolerate those differences so far as you know I think both Jason and Hannah have made anti-vaccine statements you guys may know I'm pro science I'm Pro vaccine in general and pro modern medicine I am definitely anything as far as I know that's that's the difference between us guess what I'm not saying they're right I must say it's okay I tolerate it and I see the good in them and I try to cooperate in collaborate with them and I'm thinking long term I'm not thinking about getting an extra 100 views on YouTube by starting a fight and insulting someone and tearing them down today that's really short-term thinking it's really counterproductive that's really deeply negative and we all need to move past that paradigm all right there are some things you can't tolerate I've talked about political extremism on this channel you know extreme right-wing extreme left-wing there are some people you can't cooperate with fine be honest with yourself be honest with them move on it happens but I mean within limits I got email from people asking why I didn't attack penny and Jason why I didn't care than them my purpose in life is not to attack anyone it's try to make something positive happen and people have been deeply influenced by an ultra hostile paradigm presented by people like freelee and durianrider who make their living by generating needless conflict demonstrating needless hostility and providing a type of entertainment basically by by starting fights over nothing now one of my catchphrases is that I'm not a nice guy and I don't even pretend to be a nice guy when I think someone is an idiot I do say they're an idiot what I think someone is wrong I say they're wrong many of you will have tuned into this video expecting me to call Julia Bohr a girl who's been denouncing me on the internet lately to call her an idiot I do not think she's an idiot I don't there are many videos in which she acts like a fool but I actually do not think she's stupid what she is jealous of me because I can smash it as much rice and jam and sugar and whatever good stuff I can vegan pizza without having a drop of guilt and knowing that I do billing anyways in like a couple of years and then she will be staying there jealous knocking on her root echoes and be like [ __ ] this [ __ ] and she was still be sitting there under her blanket in front of her laptop writing rage comments excuse me where's my cucumber stop being frustrated little [ __ ] just because I tell the truth and you [ __ ] know it I believe her age is 16 when I sent her an email I assumed she was 19 or older because I assumed her parents would not allow her to do the things she's been doing including like making trips to Thailand alone I don't know who lets their sixteen-year-old daughter go to Thailand I don't know probably if you by the end of this video you'll be convinced you shouldn't let your 1600 daughter have a have an iPhone or use the Internet I mean you may ask yourself a lot of questions about parenting for this video but look I I don't think julia borer is an idiot and I'm not here to call her an idiot not at all those of you have watched some of her videos maybe shark and say well come on she's saying a lot of stupid stuff well she is very strongly influenced by what I've just mentioned this habitus there's a real anthropology term there's habitus popularized by freelee and durianrider of acting over-the-top attacking people denouncing people and starting fights over nothing over who's wearing too much makeup or some trivial thing instead of doing just stuff and talk about analyze someone's work find what's useful in it for you acknowledge the differences compromise tolerance above all else tolerance and you know work for a better tomorrow right politically or even just socially isn't that what we all should be doing you know why you going to Thailand are you going to tie line to make friends go on telling to make enemies going to this big vegan summit what are you going for even me I'm going to make friends I'm looking for people I can work with I want to know people 10 years from now that I met today for me it's a long game alright I'm not playing for an extra 1000 views this week or an extra 10,000 subscribers this month not my game I really want to build institutions I really want to change the world have given so many examples of how attainable that is Mothers Against Drunk Driving or any of these other humble civil society organizations the gay rights advocacy groups that God organized got an office really change the world sure I want to make something positive happen want to make it happen with you whoever you are watching this and you know Julie abort turns out she's 16 she's going to grow up ten years from now she'll be 26 I see potential in her also to make a positive change in the world I really do I got no hate in my heart for I wasn't writing to her with any hatred in my mind either so I've written hundreds of emails to other vegans just saying hi or telling them I like their YouTube channel or you know starting a conversation over the past several years and probably hundreds of people watching this nail met me that way got an email from me in some cases the email want the other way whatever so I wrote this email to Julia uh say winder second the email just reads this is the whole thing hi Julia I saw your references to dicey tap are you going to chiang mai thailand this year by the way you might get a kick out of some of my videos the link to my channel now um for one thing is you again i assume she was 19 to 21 just because of the nature of her internet presence i guess she has very permissive parents and she's 16 some of you may laugh and say how could you possibly even make that effort you know extend this hand of friendship to julia specifically because her content is so extreme well again there's a difference between being a fool and acting a fool behaving like a fool some of her videos she's acting like a fool but you know she had a she had an interview with a recovering anorexic called the vegan lass and despite the fact that there have been tremendous hostility between the two of them they've been shooting each other in the first half the interview you see that hostility and then at a certain point about halfway through they're both talking to each other like reasonable people you can contrast the angry early part and then they say well it looks like our views are not so different after all i think everyone can make the choice and i think everyone can just go ahead and change their life because happiness is a choice eating the choice of the moment if you have a [ __ ] fridge in your kitchen you can go and open it and eat at any time too okay guys who actually can it seems that despite the fact that Julian I have been each other other's throats it actually seems that our messages actually really came down Elaine and what we've been seeing each other have just kinda taken of TechNet of contents and Cainan twisted and not really understand each other trough which so maybe it's recklessly generous of me to look at a young woman whatever age she was i didn't know who can do that and think well she acts a fool on some of her videos but maybe there's more to her maybe she's a person of some substance given that she could put aside her hostility and work things out with this other youtuber the vegan last because they had been they had been bitter enemies and look I think there all kinds of people have talked to even on this channel if I didn't give people the benefit of the doubt if I didn't give people if I didn't tolerate people if I didn't make that effort I would have never talked to Hannah and everywhere to talk to Jason I never talked to Leah Leah's on this channel I didn't I didn't know what to think of her before we got in touch she could a lot of people who met her about a year ago they said that that leah was a clone was a zombie was a mindless follower of during write and freely people change especially when they're around 20 years old I checked between age 16 and age 26 you think I didn't change we all do we all change in just a few years now I mean here's the problem with during writers influence her reply is and I quote what do you want from the eyes'll are you trying to turn me against the writer you got the wrong person mate [ __ ] off so you know you try but if that's the response you get Moon's right you know try anymore um so my reply was simply to say Julia in five years you're going to look back at this and laugh for yourself and I'm not talking about anything specific I'm not talking about her views on diet or politics or anything else specifically but the fact that you're the type of person who responds to an email like that by telling someone to [ __ ] off you know I think five years from now whatever age she was whatever age you will be I don't know you're gonna look back and laugh at yourself um not cruel not me not provoking anything but I assume that was the end of the conversation okay like I said hi to you I said hi to you because I think we might meet each other in Thailand um if not okay in five years you'll look back at it and see things differently yeah I learned I've learned a lot in every five years of my life let's leave it at that Julia writes back yes I'm going to laugh at the fact that I ever doubted this lifestyle and wasted my time on this shitty conversation haha oh I should mention by the way I'm only posting this publicly because she already did so this is not private correspondence anymore she slightly misrepresented what I said only slightly and she did post her own email publicly on her on her website so I'm not outing this private conversation she already went public with it and she had some pretty hilarious responses from her fans and from my fans also some of my fans wrote in to her I think some of my fans are sincerely concerned for her well-being she continues go head make a video slamming me haha we all know you're not vegan as if you would you wouldn't go after the people who did more for the vegan movement than you ever did and ever will you're just a stupid [ __ ] and a hater who's jealous of Drs success while sitting at your table and bitching haha that's good she included the haha there because otherwise I wouldn't know she was having fun what about interviewing righto for success stories haha when you go to Chiang Mai catch up with vegan Ava she's going to look like freely in a few months you really think veganism is about what you look like because I don't it's not like for me veganism is not about looking like freely it's not about looking like Patrick Stewart it's not about looking like anything it's it's really not I continue but not you just look up righto for noobs who didn't even own a bike or did the lifestyle properly and got frustrated that they gained weight after years of abusing their bodies are you really that [ __ ] [ __ ] that you think years of anorexia will be reversed in two weeks get a grip and some basic logic now I have over 200 videos on my channel of it is needless to say if those of you are my fans I have never discussed anorexia or these issues that mean beyond commenting on durianrider zone claims about anorexia I mean this is not what my channel is about you say righto Ford doesn't work it's actually not what I say if you watch my videos on righto 4 you might find it's more interesting than that but anyway uh yet there are countless examples of people losing weight and thriving on it you hook up with people who are so lazy that they ride a motor scooter to the corner restaurant and spend their time backstabbing freely and Harley and scratching money off their followers what that sounds pretty good freely and Harley help people change their life except for the lazy couch potato frustrated victims like Swayze Hannah or that other chick you interviewed who don't understand adapted thermogenesis ha ha there's no exclamation point here after ha ha so I don't know she's really having fun anymore if you say metabolic damage doesn't exist well what about Katie kookaburra who gained huge weight and got obese on raw till 4 then after 3 years lost it all ha ha ignore that or what yeah well you know these are certainly the pressing issues of our time ah you know I've been writing essays about like you know mass murder in the history of China um political history of Japan Russia I think about a lot of things my time I think about my own career I've been applying for jobs you know what I talked about within veganism also I'd like to think is actually much more substantive than this but hey you're a loser aisel who got his success of slapping dr and fls bum like all your other friends I'm so sorry for you having to sweat in front of your weird ball microphone and computer screen breathing in your farts sweat and smell of crisps well you [ __ ] about people who are better than you will ever dream to be well meet my friends right up steep climbs in the sunshine feeling amazing laughing and going for adventures best regards Julia um I don't know where you got the idea that my life is boring I have had a very very interesting life and my life has included a long-distance cycling my life has included long-distance cycling in Thailand and long-distance cycling up steep climbs I went up one of the steepest doorstep is a joke homeboy I went up [ __ ] Fah which is also known as Poochie fuh a northern dialect issue there I went up so called blue Melton and I had to sleep at the Buddhist monastery at the top of that mountain as a hell of a story if I were to tell it I have known a you know what's a real adventure to me a vacation is not an adventure to me doing humanitarian work is a real adventure to me real danger political danger putting your life on the line for something meaningful that's an adventure paying money to go on a ride at a theme park is not an adventure and paying money to go on vacation and ride a bicycle is not adventure but I mean you know I can remember it was risking my life back when I was doing humanitarian work I did just use a bicycle as a means of transport to get from one village to another and sometimes that was risking my life in some ways and there were some real adventures and some funny stories that came out of that and so on that was a that was when the last of the wild jungle was being cut down in the northwest of Laos and the Berner border with Myanmar today I assume that jungle is all gone and that was when the roads were not paved that's when you're talking about you know dirt roads logging trails third world conditions no electricity etc you know no drinking water you got to boil the water before I've had adventures and ironically I've had adventures in that part of Asia and I've had adventures involving bicycles but that was not the meaning of life for me I was doing humanitarian work I was doing language research was doing historical research I was doing NGO related research research related to the charity work you know applied research and you know I was also preparing myself for a lifetime of being a scholar and intellectual sinking a lot of time into everything from political history but also the history of Buddhism etc I was cultivating myself for career as a specialist and I now do not expect to ever have a career specialist so I don't know I don't know why you think my life is boring or that's lacked adventure or even that it's lacked long-distance cycling I think my long-distance cycling credentials are a lot better than yours actually Julia but hey you know welcome welcome to the club again I don't think Julia's an idiot um all of this she's doing in her second language I speak German I learned German in three months I could make a lot of money writing a book called how to learn German in three months I still speak German okay from those three months of intense study I I haven't really spoken German in more than 10 years maybe like closer to 20 years now but there's no way I could carry on this discourse in German or in Chinese or in any other language I wonder if 10 years from now I'll be able to come on YouTube and speak about veganism in Chinese so I respect Julia and you know I think in the next few years at a minimum her experience with veganism she's going to really improve her ability to communicate in English I have no concerns about her gaining weight or losing weight I see that stuff is easy and I think she can attain all her goals as an athlete no problem why not the problem what I see for her is is the ego trip is that cult-like effect that the durianrider and frilly thing has on her but I think she'll grow out of it and I mean the last thing I said to her I sent one more message where I just said look I revise my estimate instead of saying you'll look back on this in five years and laugh I think you'll look back in five months and laugh and that's not an insult you know it's a compliment and a lot of people have gotten in touch with me through email through my patreon again sign up for my patreon for those discussions saying how much their view of the world changed in just one year becoming vegan already is a huge change in your view of the world and then some people go through a period of believing in crazy pseudoscience or crazy diets or crazy forms of activism like I was showing earlier you know going into a restaurant and screaming at people having these emotional outpourings um and within a few months or within a few years people adapt they learn they change they move on and you know that's what's going to happen to Julia and I'm happy for you know uh we all got to grow up and I can't do the grown-up for you