When your grandmother bakes you a non-vegan cake.

got a question from a shrah patreon
supporter if you want to you can click on the link below this video you can join patreon pay $1 and join the conversation got a question from mouth Shara boils down to saying look if as a vegan you're in a situation where your grandmother offers you cake they she's baked a cake for you but it's a non vegan cake what is the point in refusing given that we know there's no real cause-and-effect outcome it's not as if somewhere a chicken is being liberated from a cage because you're refusing to eat this chocolate cake grandmother baked you give him that there isn't some kind of direct karmic consequence from this she's not asking what is the harm but she's asking if we refuse are we being dogmatic if we refuse are we merely standing up for our own personal purity is this become a you know form of personal purity abstracted from maybe fetishized above and beyond the practical real world sphere of vegan politics or even vegan diet and she mentions that when she's in a situation such as being in a restaurant and they accidentally put egg in the noodles she feels so disgusted she couldn't bring herself eat them although I don't know why I guess she thought the thing to do was to eat them even though they had egg you know she is she's wondering is this or is there a point diminishing returns after which you know really abiding by a vegan diet maybe does more harm than good in these various ways uh my answer is not about personal purity but it's about persons and personhood it's about being a person all right my answer is not about the animals not in this case not in these circumstances my answer is not about karma or a magical idea of these things having this consequence this problem gets the core of who are you as a personal as a human being as a person what kind of respect and dignity do you demand from others around you I mean if your grandmother made this cake for you that's what gives it this moral way she's trying to stay nice for you doesn't she deserve to know why it's not nice doesn't she deserve to know about what veganism is and why it matters to you so much now some people are gay and they decide to never tell the grandparents that they're getting they just make that decision as think they think of themselves ultimately I don't love this person enough to be honest with them you know it's what it is it's kind of contempt as a judgement call we all have to individually make maybe your grandmother is going deaf maybe your grandmother doesn't really have a language in common with you you know maybe you speak English and she mostly speaks Romanian or something you know a lot of families are in that situation there can be barriers that would make explaining veganism to your grandparents very difficult or explain the fact that you're gay your grandparents very difficult if you don't love them enough if you don't respect them enough to explain that you're vegan or spend you're gay that's a judgment call but ultimately it's an expression of contempt alright and if they're gonna feed you non vegan food that's an expression of contempt going the other way unless they're unaware right unless you've never told them then it's on you then it's your fault right because you never you never explained to them the rules you live by what it means or why it matters to you so much right so there's an obligation on you otherwise you can't you can't blame them for their actions so this is about who you are as a person it's not about a magical dotted line that goes from the eggs that are invisibly in that cake to a bird an occasion to the side of the world although I mean there really is a sense in which I believe in and preach in that dotted line I think that you know on a deep level part of what we're doing as vegans is trying to take responsibility for the consequences of our actions but that ethic ultimately is a tragic one because every day you know you may live in an apartment where non-vegan ingredients glue the wallpaper to the wall you drive a car where the tires and even the tarmac can take not vegan ingredients that these amazing examples of the extent to which as vegans we pay for and consume non vegan things so there's a tragic element to that but we can say at least we're trying at least we're trying to take responsibility for the consequences of our actions and trying to control and limit and minimize those negative knock-on effects we're actually sure so there's a sense in which I believe in the dotted line and I appreciate the dotted line but in response to this specific question my answer is not about the animals it's not about ecology it's not even about your health your health matters it's about dignity respect and love for you as a human being don't you don't you have any dignity don't you have any pride in who you are not who you are as a vegan just who you are right this is not food for you you know it's like when vegans get into would you eat roadkill is nothing beneath my dignity your dignity you've got to draw a line and I would say even if your grandmother is deaf and doesn't understand English and you can't take up that issue with her you can just leave the cake on the plate and not eat it I can imagine being in the situation I've been in business meetings you know it was a big banquet hall and they're putting out non vegan food and I'm not in a position to lecture hire people at that meeting about veganism but I'm not gonna eat it I'm not gonna touch it and when people ask I'll tell them why but sure you could be in a hierarchical situation where people are unequal and you're not gonna lecture anyone let them know and I don't have any kind of personal relationship I don't have any love or beautiful respect for these other people at this meeting and they don't have any love respect for me so no issues are there but sure this is this is your grandmother and you're her granddaughter I mean you know you're worth it we're not such dogs that we just have to eat any scraps that are left on the and floor right we're in a position to refuse as vegans as loved ones as family members as human beings and if you refuse and your family doesn't understand doesn't want to understand they treat you with contempt then that's on them right you've got to stand up for your own dignity in that situation you've got to ask them to respect you and if you put in the time and energy to explain to them what veganism is why it matters you so much that is really an expression of love and respect from you to them if you didn't do that if you just regarded them as beneath contempt as people who are never going to understand who are not worth explaining to what you're really saying is it's not even worth it to help them understand who I am