Joe Vegan vs. Me vs. Freelee: The Titanic is Sinking.
27 September 2016 [link youtube]
My earlier video on the cost (and ethical complexity) of running an animal shelter (or "sanctuary"): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLqPmh05WWU
Youtube Automatic Transcription
I don't understand why it is that Joe
vegan keeps making videos showing me dancing but I'm never dancing to any of the music i would actually listen to in real life he knows he knows what I was and you named that sample in that Thun yeah that song starts the lyric let he who is without sin throw the first stone none of us on YouTube here without sin none of us are perfect and I actually have very low expectations of my fellow vegan youtubers contrary to popular belief for ages I supported a Joe vegans Channel I saw it grow for ages I tuned in to his channel and laughed at myself along with everyone else I think there were a lot of very negative things about the vegan drama phenomenon but I also think that as long as we can laugh at it it's not nearly serious and I do think the comedy can serve an important role but of course it is it's hard to draw a line to say are you part of the problem or are you part of the solution if you're satirizing these things but I do think that Joe really he was trying to make the world a better place in a small way and he was letting even people like me have a laugh at the situation but I think he really didn't think through how different it is for him to speak for himself in the first person when he was doing live streams because do other forms of broadcasting when he was directly making comments on directly engaging in the production of vegan drama um in contrast to the scripted videos where he's making fun of it where he's having a laugh at it and where it's very clear he doesn't approve of um the vegan drama scene we know it's clear that he's neither really condemning these people nor is He approving of this this kind of bizarre industry of people trying to make money out of slander as a contact sport and uh you know one of the advantages of really American hip hop culture is that it openly articulates the whole question of respect and disrespect and the British I think read a huge disadvantage of that the British have a lot of trouble resolving those problems because they can't articulate in the first place what is the problem with you disrespected me I feel disrespect what what even are my saying what am I expecting of you in terms of showing respect women so like me for example I I laughed along with Joe and I used to watch his videos nice to give him positive supportive comments below this video's when he was he was earning money ridiculing me because that was comedy and to me I don't think in that context of scripted call me I don't expect anyone to respect me in that sense my idea of what respect is that guy is totally different then we get into a very different context where he's really coming on camera doing these live streams and he is directly providing you know really kind of political commentary on this kind of drama and where he was speaking in his own voice and he was expressing his doubts about whether or not my legal case is real about various things in my life and so on to me that's especially problematic as he and I have spoken privately he's alluded to that news channel was totally appropriate um where you know I had sent him a legal documents or evidence pertaining to make updates pertain to my case and he checked with me about what he should say publicly and what he should treat Pavel and so on and so throughout that time where he was repeatedly from my perspective disrespecting me really disrespecting me and saying things that are factually wrong saying things that have a negative impact in my life they really do during that whole time I was writing to him baseless and we'll look you know if you want more evidence I can give it to you if you want more details with a legal process I can show you something to read on the internet I know we ain't got all the time in the world but for him to them behave publicly as if there was something mysterious or evasive or lacking or unreal about my legal case when my situation with him is I'm willing to give him all the information he wants and more I'm going to talk to him I'm going to show him things privately or whatever if he wants material that he can share publicly I can give him that too in the past I have you know it's pretty boring stuff no it really is um you know I can talk with him about what I can and can't stay publicly I can set his mind it ease and we was refusing to take advantage of that and he was sharing information that he knows is factually wrong that he knows has negative impacts of me in real life when he's presenting the stuff that does not make the world a better place in any way and it disrespects me and what would you expect you what do you thinks gonna happen next like do you think we're just going to be friends like do you think we're going to cooperate I'm going to do a fundraiser for your you know animal sanctuary now anyway one issue leads to another I have video to encourage all you guys to watch talking about the difficulties of owning and operating animal sanctuary and I believe I'm going to do more videos in the future because two of my regular viewers have written to me talking about their experience volunteering at animal sanctuaries and you know it's hard work it's much harder work than most people think it is I know a little bit about that from our experience with farms and it's a lot more money and a lot more time and also I mean other people written to be saying it's also a lot more hopeless and bleak and heartbreaking so I did talk about that video that video doesn't name Joe because he asked me not to name it how many videos is he got naming me I can't even count but I understand I understand its sensitivity I mean I do and in my way I still want to show respect to him my point in mentioning this now is in that video talking with the animal sanctuaries there's no malice I'm not attacking Joe I'm not defaming him I'm not ridiculing him I could it would not be hard Joe it would not be hard for me to come on camera and ridicule what you have to say about animal sanctuaries and I don't and you know i feel i'm presenting something that's factually right it's not it's not false it's not fictional um I don't think as any negative impacts for you and I think it is made the world a better place I think it's actually engaging vegans in a set of productive reflections on effective activism how to actually help animals what do animal sanctuaries really entail etc etc and i'm also open to the fact that different people are going to come to to two different answers with it won't have you i made a comment uh to i made a comment in the company of controvert able snitch his real name is John John was complaining and totally understandable he said he could not believe the level of hostility and infighting amongst vegans even compared to his experience with the Christian Church even with his experience with becoming an atheist with getting able with a new atheist movement and even compared to experience of the world of hip-hop of rap music and so I made the comment i stutter comment saying yeah I know so this is in a public discussion forum vegans tear each other apart in another level compared to New Atheists compared to rappers etc we're the worst veganism basically equals the freelance Spanish Inquisition on the deck of the Titanic a bunch of people you know laughed or put in smiley faces and response that what have you but then there was one response so this is I'm saying vegans behave like the freelance Spanish Inquisition on the decks that Titanic one person wrote back to me saying and they all want to seat in the lifeboat before the ship sinks and to that of replied no man it's not that they want to see the live phone it's like quote I don't care if I have to swim but I'm gonna make sure you drown first it's pretty brutal it's brutal I mean honestly I can't say it's as bad as academic Buddhism I can't I'm sorry inside the university's its academic pathology is incredibly nasty and it is also about money sex fame religious philosophy power influence yeaaaa academic pathology is actually worse than veganism so I I can't say vegans are the worst scene i've been involved with and but you know to me it's sad to see people tearing each other's eyes out when they got nothing to win they got nothing to lose so look I want to explicitly articulate this in case Joe vegan doesn't get it or in case anyone else does again if you make a video that hurts my feelings that's not a reason to delete the video that's not a reason to center yourself and I've never asked anyone to do that like hey your video hurts my feelings okay the thresholds for why someone should delete a video or delete part of a video because you don't have to lead the whole video here you can edit out part of it you can 21st century technology if you're putting something up on the internet up me that is factually wrong especially if you know it is fashionable and something that has negative impacts on me in real life especially if you know it does because I've told you it does I've explained to the death and I can explain more and the third point is and also it's not making the world a better place to keep it online then why wouldn't you delete that video or delete that portion of the video just as a gesture of respect to me ok Joe vegan has never even considered doing that and that does put them on the same level as someone like vegan cheetah I don't expect everyone to issue a retraction I don't expect everyone issue an apology or what have you but I mean let's say so another another vicious lie that people say about me to my knowledge this doesn't have negative effects on but I think it could if I have people on the internet saying that I don't pay child support now I do I don't really want to say a lot more about my legal situation in France blah blah blah but I'm a divorced parent I do pay child support so you know obviously someone just made up that that lie and there are different videos on YouTube you know repeating it in various ways ok so if you have a video about me saying that and now you talk to me or whatever by email or by Skype and now you know that's factually wrong you know it can have negative impacts on me in real life it's not trivial right and it's not making the world a better place then you should take that down I think that meets the threshold for white when you should delete a video whether you're Joe vegan or whether you're anyone else and again it's hard to imagine a comedy video if it's comedy and everyone knows that it's comedy it would be pretty hard to cross those lines but in the videos that are him speaking factual that I'm doing reporting him doing journalism him doing live streaming and speaking for himself as being factually you can cross all those lines really easily if you're just not mindful if you just don't think about these issues of respect and disrespect I think it's really easy to now I have myself issued an apology in the recent past to freely I'd encourage all you guys to watch the video the title is something like my apology too freely it's easy to find great video can watch it I'm happy to apologize to freely even if it just makes her feel better though there's no I don't need a better reason than that to apologize to someone the videos I have up already that are insulting towards freely or that she put it she may feel insulted by I think they deal with factual matters on which I am correct and which I'm really really raising important factual issues i do not think any of them have a negative impact on freely in real life you know dealing with an issue like whether or not it's safe for vegans the garlic because freely popularized the idea that garlic contains a neurotoxin neurotoxin means a poison that impacts your brain choosing vegans should refuse the garlic for this reason this is just one example of a factual issue where I stand by the fact that what I to say factually correct and I do and and and my third criterion here by keeping that video online I do think in my small way I'm making the world a better place there were a lot of people who saw those videos and really thought wow they need to reconsider a free least credibility they need to reconsider the type of scientific or scientific claims she makes the type of health advice she makes given those examples that I discussed given those things I raise now freely she's also she's never asked me to delete any videos and we're within this is a small world it would be easy for her to send me a message asking me to leave she's never has she's never asked me to change anything on my channel but if she did those would be the consideration she actually wrote to me saying look this is impacting my life negatively in some way I can't imagine or something or she wrote to me explaining the something I said about her was really factually wrong misleading I without hesitation I would delete videos i have about freely okay why partly out of respect even people i disagree with you know i can still show respect for them even people who have harmed me i can still show respect for them and you know i mean this is the sad thing the prospect of politics politics itself requires that we must be able to disagree with each other without making enemies out of each other okay but i have to ongoing legal cases in the real world if you are talking about me in my legal situation on the internet it doesn't take much imagination to think that apart from disrespecting me apart from insulting the apart from snubbing me when I've offered enjoying its case to provide him with legal documentation provided with further evidence or further details of further explanation if he has any questions I'm offering to answer his question I offered for months and you shut that you turn that down it does not take much imagination for you to realize how this type of scandal mongering boom you can negatively impact my legal situation in my divorce in France or the criminal charges on pressing in Thailand it does not take much imagination for you to realize how this could negatively impact me when I am for example applying for a job to have this kind of dirt spread of immune internet and yes it bothers me if someone like Joe vegan if they know me if I've been friendly to them in the past need been friendly towards me too to have them speaking for that position of someone who apparently knows me to our shared fanbase of only a few thousand people it's not that many people are interested and discrediting me and pillorying me and disrespecting me that matters that in itself has an impact on me because YouTube is also part of my life
vegan keeps making videos showing me dancing but I'm never dancing to any of the music i would actually listen to in real life he knows he knows what I was and you named that sample in that Thun yeah that song starts the lyric let he who is without sin throw the first stone none of us on YouTube here without sin none of us are perfect and I actually have very low expectations of my fellow vegan youtubers contrary to popular belief for ages I supported a Joe vegans Channel I saw it grow for ages I tuned in to his channel and laughed at myself along with everyone else I think there were a lot of very negative things about the vegan drama phenomenon but I also think that as long as we can laugh at it it's not nearly serious and I do think the comedy can serve an important role but of course it is it's hard to draw a line to say are you part of the problem or are you part of the solution if you're satirizing these things but I do think that Joe really he was trying to make the world a better place in a small way and he was letting even people like me have a laugh at the situation but I think he really didn't think through how different it is for him to speak for himself in the first person when he was doing live streams because do other forms of broadcasting when he was directly making comments on directly engaging in the production of vegan drama um in contrast to the scripted videos where he's making fun of it where he's having a laugh at it and where it's very clear he doesn't approve of um the vegan drama scene we know it's clear that he's neither really condemning these people nor is He approving of this this kind of bizarre industry of people trying to make money out of slander as a contact sport and uh you know one of the advantages of really American hip hop culture is that it openly articulates the whole question of respect and disrespect and the British I think read a huge disadvantage of that the British have a lot of trouble resolving those problems because they can't articulate in the first place what is the problem with you disrespected me I feel disrespect what what even are my saying what am I expecting of you in terms of showing respect women so like me for example I I laughed along with Joe and I used to watch his videos nice to give him positive supportive comments below this video's when he was he was earning money ridiculing me because that was comedy and to me I don't think in that context of scripted call me I don't expect anyone to respect me in that sense my idea of what respect is that guy is totally different then we get into a very different context where he's really coming on camera doing these live streams and he is directly providing you know really kind of political commentary on this kind of drama and where he was speaking in his own voice and he was expressing his doubts about whether or not my legal case is real about various things in my life and so on to me that's especially problematic as he and I have spoken privately he's alluded to that news channel was totally appropriate um where you know I had sent him a legal documents or evidence pertaining to make updates pertain to my case and he checked with me about what he should say publicly and what he should treat Pavel and so on and so throughout that time where he was repeatedly from my perspective disrespecting me really disrespecting me and saying things that are factually wrong saying things that have a negative impact in my life they really do during that whole time I was writing to him baseless and we'll look you know if you want more evidence I can give it to you if you want more details with a legal process I can show you something to read on the internet I know we ain't got all the time in the world but for him to them behave publicly as if there was something mysterious or evasive or lacking or unreal about my legal case when my situation with him is I'm willing to give him all the information he wants and more I'm going to talk to him I'm going to show him things privately or whatever if he wants material that he can share publicly I can give him that too in the past I have you know it's pretty boring stuff no it really is um you know I can talk with him about what I can and can't stay publicly I can set his mind it ease and we was refusing to take advantage of that and he was sharing information that he knows is factually wrong that he knows has negative impacts of me in real life when he's presenting the stuff that does not make the world a better place in any way and it disrespects me and what would you expect you what do you thinks gonna happen next like do you think we're just going to be friends like do you think we're going to cooperate I'm going to do a fundraiser for your you know animal sanctuary now anyway one issue leads to another I have video to encourage all you guys to watch talking about the difficulties of owning and operating animal sanctuary and I believe I'm going to do more videos in the future because two of my regular viewers have written to me talking about their experience volunteering at animal sanctuaries and you know it's hard work it's much harder work than most people think it is I know a little bit about that from our experience with farms and it's a lot more money and a lot more time and also I mean other people written to be saying it's also a lot more hopeless and bleak and heartbreaking so I did talk about that video that video doesn't name Joe because he asked me not to name it how many videos is he got naming me I can't even count but I understand I understand its sensitivity I mean I do and in my way I still want to show respect to him my point in mentioning this now is in that video talking with the animal sanctuaries there's no malice I'm not attacking Joe I'm not defaming him I'm not ridiculing him I could it would not be hard Joe it would not be hard for me to come on camera and ridicule what you have to say about animal sanctuaries and I don't and you know i feel i'm presenting something that's factually right it's not it's not false it's not fictional um I don't think as any negative impacts for you and I think it is made the world a better place I think it's actually engaging vegans in a set of productive reflections on effective activism how to actually help animals what do animal sanctuaries really entail etc etc and i'm also open to the fact that different people are going to come to to two different answers with it won't have you i made a comment uh to i made a comment in the company of controvert able snitch his real name is John John was complaining and totally understandable he said he could not believe the level of hostility and infighting amongst vegans even compared to his experience with the Christian Church even with his experience with becoming an atheist with getting able with a new atheist movement and even compared to experience of the world of hip-hop of rap music and so I made the comment i stutter comment saying yeah I know so this is in a public discussion forum vegans tear each other apart in another level compared to New Atheists compared to rappers etc we're the worst veganism basically equals the freelance Spanish Inquisition on the deck of the Titanic a bunch of people you know laughed or put in smiley faces and response that what have you but then there was one response so this is I'm saying vegans behave like the freelance Spanish Inquisition on the decks that Titanic one person wrote back to me saying and they all want to seat in the lifeboat before the ship sinks and to that of replied no man it's not that they want to see the live phone it's like quote I don't care if I have to swim but I'm gonna make sure you drown first it's pretty brutal it's brutal I mean honestly I can't say it's as bad as academic Buddhism I can't I'm sorry inside the university's its academic pathology is incredibly nasty and it is also about money sex fame religious philosophy power influence yeaaaa academic pathology is actually worse than veganism so I I can't say vegans are the worst scene i've been involved with and but you know to me it's sad to see people tearing each other's eyes out when they got nothing to win they got nothing to lose so look I want to explicitly articulate this in case Joe vegan doesn't get it or in case anyone else does again if you make a video that hurts my feelings that's not a reason to delete the video that's not a reason to center yourself and I've never asked anyone to do that like hey your video hurts my feelings okay the thresholds for why someone should delete a video or delete part of a video because you don't have to lead the whole video here you can edit out part of it you can 21st century technology if you're putting something up on the internet up me that is factually wrong especially if you know it is fashionable and something that has negative impacts on me in real life especially if you know it does because I've told you it does I've explained to the death and I can explain more and the third point is and also it's not making the world a better place to keep it online then why wouldn't you delete that video or delete that portion of the video just as a gesture of respect to me ok Joe vegan has never even considered doing that and that does put them on the same level as someone like vegan cheetah I don't expect everyone to issue a retraction I don't expect everyone issue an apology or what have you but I mean let's say so another another vicious lie that people say about me to my knowledge this doesn't have negative effects on but I think it could if I have people on the internet saying that I don't pay child support now I do I don't really want to say a lot more about my legal situation in France blah blah blah but I'm a divorced parent I do pay child support so you know obviously someone just made up that that lie and there are different videos on YouTube you know repeating it in various ways ok so if you have a video about me saying that and now you talk to me or whatever by email or by Skype and now you know that's factually wrong you know it can have negative impacts on me in real life it's not trivial right and it's not making the world a better place then you should take that down I think that meets the threshold for white when you should delete a video whether you're Joe vegan or whether you're anyone else and again it's hard to imagine a comedy video if it's comedy and everyone knows that it's comedy it would be pretty hard to cross those lines but in the videos that are him speaking factual that I'm doing reporting him doing journalism him doing live streaming and speaking for himself as being factually you can cross all those lines really easily if you're just not mindful if you just don't think about these issues of respect and disrespect I think it's really easy to now I have myself issued an apology in the recent past to freely I'd encourage all you guys to watch the video the title is something like my apology too freely it's easy to find great video can watch it I'm happy to apologize to freely even if it just makes her feel better though there's no I don't need a better reason than that to apologize to someone the videos I have up already that are insulting towards freely or that she put it she may feel insulted by I think they deal with factual matters on which I am correct and which I'm really really raising important factual issues i do not think any of them have a negative impact on freely in real life you know dealing with an issue like whether or not it's safe for vegans the garlic because freely popularized the idea that garlic contains a neurotoxin neurotoxin means a poison that impacts your brain choosing vegans should refuse the garlic for this reason this is just one example of a factual issue where I stand by the fact that what I to say factually correct and I do and and and my third criterion here by keeping that video online I do think in my small way I'm making the world a better place there were a lot of people who saw those videos and really thought wow they need to reconsider a free least credibility they need to reconsider the type of scientific or scientific claims she makes the type of health advice she makes given those examples that I discussed given those things I raise now freely she's also she's never asked me to delete any videos and we're within this is a small world it would be easy for her to send me a message asking me to leave she's never has she's never asked me to change anything on my channel but if she did those would be the consideration she actually wrote to me saying look this is impacting my life negatively in some way I can't imagine or something or she wrote to me explaining the something I said about her was really factually wrong misleading I without hesitation I would delete videos i have about freely okay why partly out of respect even people i disagree with you know i can still show respect for them even people who have harmed me i can still show respect for them and you know i mean this is the sad thing the prospect of politics politics itself requires that we must be able to disagree with each other without making enemies out of each other okay but i have to ongoing legal cases in the real world if you are talking about me in my legal situation on the internet it doesn't take much imagination to think that apart from disrespecting me apart from insulting the apart from snubbing me when I've offered enjoying its case to provide him with legal documentation provided with further evidence or further details of further explanation if he has any questions I'm offering to answer his question I offered for months and you shut that you turn that down it does not take much imagination for you to realize how this type of scandal mongering boom you can negatively impact my legal situation in my divorce in France or the criminal charges on pressing in Thailand it does not take much imagination for you to realize how this could negatively impact me when I am for example applying for a job to have this kind of dirt spread of immune internet and yes it bothers me if someone like Joe vegan if they know me if I've been friendly to them in the past need been friendly towards me too to have them speaking for that position of someone who apparently knows me to our shared fanbase of only a few thousand people it's not that many people are interested and discrediting me and pillorying me and disrespecting me that matters that in itself has an impact on me because YouTube is also part of my life