Durianrider: Channel Deleted, Case Closed?
18 October 2017 [link youtube]
The case isn't over yet (next court-date is in mid December, in Chiang Mai), but yes, in many ways, we've already won —and "we" is, really, the nascent vegan movement / "vegan community.
Youtube Automatic Transcription
so yeah the next day in court is coming
up in December in so many ways I have already won durianrider has been discredited his career on YouTube is over his ability to hurt other people is over his ability to harm the future of the vegan movement is over and one by one all the people who supported him woke up I've spoken to many of these people directly and let me tell you when you asked them what were you thinking why did you ever support this guy you feel like you're talking to somebody who's woken up from a dream or I guess the better way to put it is that woke up from a dream and then in hindsight they realized it was a nightmare most of these people who supported during Ryder when they look back at it they can't believe they made this mistake themselves and what durianrider proved is that he does not have the personal integrity to be the most important vegan activist in the world which is what he claimed he was he doesn't deserve that title he didn't earn it he didn't earn your trust on the contrary he's taken the name of veganism and dragged it through the mud he's taken your trust and dragged it through the mud and now his career is over but if the case gets dismissed or if it ends in conclusively or in a dissatisfactory matter I think we all know that in the court of public opinion judgment has been handed down and now with the deletion of during Ryder's channel I think I can safely say he is never gonna victimize anyone again the way he tried to make a victim out of me and failed and the way he really did victimize and bully harass defame and slander so many people before me so many people who couldn't stand up for themselves so many people who really suffered a bonus Yin [Music] uh-uh new yen one of the more hilarious moments in the runoff between Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton in what turned out to be the election of Donald Trump during the final formal debate between the two of them there was a question from the audience although it was very clearly a pre-selected screen the question from the audience nothing spontaneous about it question came from the audience could the two opponents say something positive could each say something positive about the other for the sake of having a more civil and mutually respectful debate and you know Hillary Clinton just barely managed to say something flattering about Donald Trump being a good parent being good father sure about that one the Trump for his part I think he just completely failed to say anything positive about about Hillary he's not really a master of improvisation and he's definitely not a master of flattery you know in a much deeper and more meaningful way when I have had conflicts with professors and believe me at the University of Toronto at University of Victoria at about six other universities I have had conflicts with professors one of the things I always tried to do was take the time go to the library and look up their publications so that I had something positive to say about them you know when a face-to-face meeting or in a meeting chaired by the Ombudsman of the Dean or whatever the situation was so you know I would go to the library and I'm trying to look up whatever books they had published sometimes they hadn't published books I'd have to get their original PhD thesis I'd have to get some obscure article that managed to publish but that put me in a position to say something positive about my opponent in the debate in whatever the situation was or I could sit down and say oh you know I you know I read your book oh you know I read your PhD thesis and I wish I could tell you that I led to a really positive outcomes most of the occasions I couldn't remember it just caused the professor to be stunned and astonished and amazed like it had never occurred to them that anyone actually would read or tells you something sad about the state of academia in the 21st century look I remember once I sat down with the professor where wasn't really a conflict that was actually just meeting with him to talk about graduate school options both MA and PhD options and I had his PhD theses with me on paper so you know I had read it I also had proof that read it you know with me and I was really prepared to talk about details I didn't just want to make a V blandishments where he'd think that I hadn't actually done the reading but I remember he was very uncomfortable with talking about any details in there so it's like flattering and positive I've done to to reach out to professor's sorry I mean when I say flattering the point is you read their book you read their PhD thesis and even if you think 90% of it is garbage you figure out the 10% you could say something positive about it say oh you know I really like I really like the work you did on this issue I really like what you took it this way so you know in my interactions with both freelee and durianrider I have normally made it a point to have something positive to say if you guys watch my own videos on freely my old videos on freely I always took the time to note in a few of freelee's videos she was just talking about her own life experience she was just talking about you know her history as a waitress as a kind of bartender the different job she had different relationships you'd been in there were some videos about freely where she was just talking about her own life talking about things she knew about and cared about and where she was keeping it real and those videos I can respect that side that aspect of what she did on YouTube I can regard as positive and I can respect a lot of other things she does I don't respect a lot of the things she has done and is doing I regard is tremendously negative as harmful to people as dangerous you know dangerous health advice dangerous dietary advice and so on as really damaging to to individual people and as damaging to veganism as a movement and I've been honest about that also right I try to be honest about both sides you know with a guy like durianrider there's not much positive I can say but you know there is one thing is six in my mind and remember two people in in Chiangmai when I was there over a year ago I remember there was this one context and not gonna help tell the whole story where you know durianrider and actually the context did include a lot of kind of lives lies and half-truths and defamations with a strange situation he'd put himself in where he was creating drama but he said about himself that he doesn't let conflicts with individual people he used coarse language I'm leaving out about three swear words and in paraphrases but he says he doesn't let conflicts with individual people get in the way of his personal goals and the example was you know if what he wanted to do that day was right his bicycle up a hill then the fact that he had this conflict the fact that somebody punched him in the face allegedly the fact that he you know had some kind of traumatic experience that day didn't matter he wasn't gonna let that slow him down in the least he wouldn't let a personal conflict get in the way the pursuit of those particular goals I remember you know sitting there or read that confident that Wow okay you know there's there's one little piece of the durianrider personal philosophy that I can really relate to positively now I don't know if it's true I don't know if he lives by that I think I've seen a lot of examples of durianrider letting personal conflicts completely derail his personal goals completely take over his life and also completely change the content on his youtube channel and that is one way to draw up winners and losers today who is doing what they really want to do in their lives and digitally you're on YouTube and who's not when I look at during writers Channel I saw his channel the day before it was deleted every so often I've got to check up on his channel just to see if there's anything material related to the court case for me to know but I remember looking at the list of recent videos on his channel the day before his channel was deleted and just being amazed at what a large percentage of it was clickbait what a large percentage of it was you know pictures of scantily clad women women showing their breasts for no reason and there's barely any relationship between the title of the video and the content of the video and the breasts of the half-naked women just so many videos reaching out for those cheap extraneous views you know and I don't know if that for him is a struggle to make money or if it's struggle to be famous or a struggle to stay relevant but it is really obvious that it's a struggle and my channel same period of time if you look at what's on my channel I'm doing exactly what it is I want to do I'm doing exactly what it is I came on YouTube to do in the first place and what I want to do in the future I mean I've had in recent videos talking about politics of Asia immigration policy in Canada quite a couple different videos talking about the Kree the Ojibwe First Nations indigenous peoples in Canada study of languages of course I've continued to have a lot of videos about vegan politics and what's going on in veganism but it's not the only topic on my channel that's not what I'm here to do and I've continued to have a deep and meaningful connection with a small audience which is exactly what I wanted all along I was never thinking my channel was gonna reach tens of thousands of people but I knew I could have a really meaningful connection with a few hundred people and again can preferred to having a conversation in a coffee shop that's really something if I have a conversation with the coffee shop maybe I just reach one person maybe two or three but to me what I'm on here to YouTube what am you're on YouTube to do is to make friendships to recruit colleagues ultimately to recruit colleagues to really cooperate and collaborate in the vegan movement to engage in you know political lobbying make the world a better place make the world a different place have an impact in Canadian politics and so on and yeah I want to come on here and keep it real whether it's talking about my divorce talking about my personal life talking about dating talking about romance talking about veganism politics philosophy or any of those matters so there are different ways to look at this situation say who's winning and who's losing durianrider completely discredited himself and you know my court case is still not over it's still not resolved I still have another court date coming up I hope it's the last court date but probably won't be it's a really weird mental exercise to ask yourself well what if my court case had wrapped up in record time what if the whole thing had been over in three months or six months you know as in a parallel universe if that had happened then we never would have seen the bizarre process that we have seen here on YouTube in the last year where one by one all of the people who supported durianrider were realized he was impossible to support where one by one people including his closest friends realized that he had been lying to them he had been lying to the public on YouTube and his some extent during Ryder had been lying to himself so give an example you know a guy who I think is really during Ryder's last friend his best friend a close personal friend of his there's this youtuber called angry vegan angry vegan has lived in Durham writers house for several months I think six months but for a number of months he lived interim writers house they have videos with a joke above the fact that he still owes during writer rent in this kind of thing I assume that is just a joke but they've lived together they spent time together they're about as close friends as any two adult heterosexual man men can be they are close personal friends and angry vegans one of the last people still supports during Ryder angry vegan met me and talked to me face to face for more than an hour angry vegan asked to see the receipts from the court case and I sent him literal receipts you know I can talk a little bit more about that but you know it's still a ridiculous - people say they want to seek receipts and you wouldn't want to see the receipts to see the receipts at this point but a receipt is a receipt that's all it is tells you how much was paid and when it was paid that's about it you know and it made it worse anyway this is a ridiculous thing on the internet especially when you're the situation the internet like I'm in I show my passport on camera and durianrider says it's a fake passport so if I show receipts are the internet obviously he's just gonna say they're fake receipts we've kind of been through this a few times with durianrider it's really counterproductive but anyway you know angry vegan I showed him legal documents I showed him receipts but also I just said to him look man you can go to the courthouse if you don't believe me just go to the courthouse which is what during murder should have done and look up the case and I talked him through how to do that so I don't believe he went on a day when court was in session you know when my case was in session I believe he just went up there and he looked at the you know the writing on the wall quite literally and he confirmed that the case was real and ongoing and when the next hearing was and his mind was blown because of course he realized in that moment the extent to which durianrider had lied to him but everything now in my face-to-face conversation with him he did reflect also on his own sense of disappointment with how during writer had lied to him about everything even though durianrider has admitted publicly to using performance-enhancing drugs but performance ANSI drugs I mean drugs like steroids steroids and similar drugs not a soldier steroids but angry vegans said to me that even though he knew that even though he'd seen durianrider talking on the internet admitting the fact that he has a history of using this type of drug angry vegans said to me how shocked and demoralized he felt when he was actually at durian writers house and he saw syringes in the garbage can so during writer that's one young man who really looked up to you that's one young man who really came here on YouTube and was trying to make money the durianrider way trying to have a career as a youtuber a guy who doesn't have formal education who doesn't have a formal career doesn't have you know a lot a job opportunity for word to that's a guy who's really been working hard to emulate you daring writer copy you in many ways he is he is your friend but he's also your fan and in a lot of ways you broke his heart you let him down and I got to see that I got to see that up close face to face with him and then I got to hear back about it when he rode his bicycle up to the courthouse and saw that the court case was real and when he told durianrider which during writer must have known all along when he told her in writer hey you know they're a minor the court case is real because he'd gone to the courthouse and confirmed it himself independently doesn't have to dalat rely on my word or something you went and confirmed it during writers response was to tell angry vegan keep it quiet nobody needs to know so to what extent during Ryder has been lying all along that he always knew it was a real court case is not even worth speculating about but that was his response when people who were close to him in his life and others have talked to me angry vegan is not the only guy closed during writers come forward and talk to me when they said that's him now beyond that I mean there's been this cavalcade over the last year I mean it's like falling dominoes you know the first big one to fall was ain't was some vegan gains Richard vegan gains it's hard to remember now vegan gains used to be a durianrider supporter they had a kind of strategic alliance on YouTube vegan gains turned against their aim Rider because of me because of my case because of my situation because of what Durand writer did against me and that was a huge turning point within our tiny little scene within our tiny Demi Moore Joey carb strong turned against during Ryder I mean so many I mean you know uh I can't attempt to list them all but I mean people like Joey carps are even Jason Posey know before him a lot of these people were his close personal friends I actually I mean durianrider claims that he and Richard were close personal friends too I assume that was true to some extent although I assume you know Jeremiah is also exaggerating and lying about to some extent because during Ryder tends to exaggerate lie about everything but a lot of these people were as close personal friends durianrider didn't just discredit himself in front of his audience he discredited himself with the people who knew him most closely who trusted most closely and one by one over a period of more than a year all of them turned against them and were checked at him you know another one being so cold glucose Network sir glucose network the name of his channel but Abdullah Zainab again he was a huge German writer supporter someone who really believed in and I think idolized durianrider and someone who's trying to imitate and emulate German writer success and even that guy had to eventually you know turn on turn against tearing lighter so it's a really strange you know hypothetical scenario what if the court case in Thailand had been quick and decisive what if it happened right away what did that win in three months that would have been a much more shocking situation for the whole vegan scene and those people wouldn't have had the long deliberative process of reflecting on what durianrider had said what durianrider had done asking themselves who is this guy really and what does any of this mean for the future of the vegan movement now also in that same period of time I really do think this is a victory for me and for people like me what we've seen is lifestyle activism being totally discredited the permanent vacation being abandoned as the leading paradigm in vegan activism so guys I get a lot of email I get a lot of messages on patreon I get a lot of messages from all different sources so I forget where this message came from but from somewhere in Europe could have been Poland I really forget I remember I got a message from somewhere in Europe where the vegan movement is not very strong and the person was saying to me with some frustration look you know locally here this lifestyle activism this perminov aqune activism it totally took over formal vegan movements there were formal vegan movements that previously had kind of imitated Petta had imitated People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals in the United States that wasn't very successful and they said they had switched over apparently due to the success of people like freelee and durianrider they'd switched over to this advocacy of personal beauty and weight loss and yoga pants and sport and you know this this lifestyle glorifying activism that they were trying to imitate what was going on so that email was to me a striking whoa because that was talking about formal or formal vegan political organizations deep politicizing themselves and going over to imitating that that lifestyle like this now there are a few other you know planks in the deck you know if you're really telling that history I do think the short term success of a weight loss book called the skinny [ __ ] has to be remembered people already forget that that was a huge step there was the success of the skinny [ __ ] there was the sucess success of a book by dr. Greger called how not to die and then yeah there was the success short term meteoric success of freely and a number of other people like freely and that convinced a lot of people that lifestyle activism was the future and in the same period of time during which my court case made incredibly little progress was sitting around you know in court in Thailand basically people stopped regarding lifestyle activism of the future and they started regarding lifestyle activism as the past now I am not the only voice in that debate but I was one of the first I was one of the loudest I was the most consistent and of course the fact that durianrider debated me the fact that he responded to me the fact that he you know attacked my criticism of the permanent vacation and lifestyle activism then also elevated the significance my critique where people could realize hey I was hitting home I was offering criticism that mattered to the people being criticized and you know I think that is true across the board I've talked to those people and a lot of those people have changed a lot of those people have moved on I don't have to name names in a lot of ways the scene has collapsed and an individual level people made the choice to go back to school to go back to having a real job the dream of you know the dream were the nightmare of earning your living as a so-called full-time activist when what you're doing is not even activism that has gone out of style and new fashions have come in to replace it you know I would say currently Joey Karp Strong's method is fashionable Earthling EDS method is fashionable and currently I don't think it's gonna last what vegan gains has been doing with these long format debates via you know live-streaming debates of the internet between vegans meters that's currently fashionable now each of those has its own advantages and disadvantages we could do in a critique about that but fundamentally all of them all of them are vastly superior to the yoga pants' weight-loss cult of personal beauty called the personality lifestyle activist and permanent vacation paradigm that I was criticizing here on YouTube for a period of about two years that's over and now of course the other thing that's over is durian writers career and during writers influence so you know obviously I played a role in I played a role in the collapse of his career and his influence but the largest role goes to durianrider himself he destroyed his own credibility more than I could have ever destroyed his credibility simply put you know he made bad choices in terms of what is the situation with the case today again I don't even get questions about this anymore which is another sense in which I have one if it was the case that tons of people had a lot of interest in this that might be a bad sign frankly for me the less public interest there is in the case the better because you know I'm not trying to make durianrider famous again I'm really not in December in mid-december I have another day in court in Chiang Mai the most recent a couple months ago the last court date in Chiang Mai a bunch of vegans attended they went just to have a look so Sam of the vegan went to my last court date and Joe best I've seen a photograph of Joe best in court he showed up in my day in court so this is another thing discredited during Ryder and Shanghai to a massive extent the fact that there were so many people there who saw for themselves that the court case is ongoing who actually showed up in court and were witnesses to the ongoing proceedings against the rain writer I don't get I don't receive questions about the finances from anyone except durianrider during writer did write to me the other day asking what happened to the $6,500 the $6,500 itself that the fee for the for the lawyer that went directly to the lawyer and again I've shown receipts there of course I mean the problem is we live in a world people said well that receipts can be faked of course they can be faked you think about like if you actually go to a shop and buy something what is a receipt a receipt is a piece of paper printed out from a compete anyone can print out that piece of paper but you know also in this case we're talking about a receipt that's sent by email so it's just it's an email attachment sent to me from my lawyer but again the way to confirm this is to go to the courthouse if you want to you can phone up my law firm or something you know if you eat a journalist for example really want to verify this a journalist could make those phone calls or take those steps you know whether it's to the courthouse to the law firm what have you to verify listens but the receipt itself is not a magical solution to this this problem a problem that's only created by durianrider and only for very transparently self-serving interests but that went from the crowdfunding website directly to the law firm so it was never in my bank account if that money was transferred directly from the crowdfunding site to to the law firm and I'm glad that squeaked in in terms of the exchange rate that was just enough money and ty bought at the time so that was a that was a near-miss thing actually it was not I was not happy about that at the time long story but a hard it was to even get that that transfer done from my crappy bank in in Kunming China was love me at the time you know there also is some money that was not sent to the crowdfunding site that was sent to PayPal the money that was sent to PayPal which will be a couple hundred extra dollars or maybe over one thousand dollars I was never able to get the money out of PayPal when I go back to Canada I can try I am assuming that the money from PayPal is much less than the amount I've spent just flying back and forth to Thailand to chiang mai thailand in order to attend the court date but I won't know until I get back to Canada presumably get on the phone with PayPal and then from a fixed address in Canada with a Canadian bank account struggle to try to get PayPal to send me that money I mean I guess I'm optimistic and even assuming once I'm back in Canada I'll be able to get the money people it's possible I'll never be able to get it that is that is possible but you know for whatever reason when I was in China and I did believe me I got on the phone I made long-distance phone calls to PayPal I had angry email back and forth and PayPal couldn't do it or wouldn't do it I'd assumed that's partly just because it was a bank account in China but obviously it's it's a it's a real black market against PayPal because I was there I'm saying look I can send you guys photographs of my you know my passport in my visa proving that it's really me I'm really in China this is really my bank account look what's the problem Iran but I could never get a straight answer to PayPal so if there's an extra 1,000 bucks that was donated by a PayPal not via the crowdfunding site it's possible I'll collect that eventually as possible I never will and then I'll just looked at look at well I've had to repeatedly fly back and forth to Chiang Mai just to the core case and say well are we just gonna say that balance is out or is there any significant difference where Iran and I will yeah I mean I if there's some difference I can give some of the two to a vegan charity or what-have-you but at this point you know I just say I'll cross that bridge and get it because it has been impossible working with PayPal from my Garret in you know and China that has really been impossible and again if anyone if anyone doesn't believe it you can really quickly Google bad experiences with PayPal tons of people have bad experiences it's hilarious durianrider attacked me on that too claiming that nobody nobody has truthful with international international financial transfers in PayPal well believe me plenty of us have trouble with international finance financial transfers if they fell I'm just one of them so yeah the next day in court is coming up in December in so many ways I have already won durianrider has been discredited his career on YouTube is over his ability to hurt other people is over his ability to harm the future of the vegan movement is over and one by one all the people who supported him woke up and like I've spoken to Joey carbs strong directly I've spoken to Richard vegan gains directly I've spoken to many of these people directly and let me tell you when you asked them what were you thinking why did you ever support this guy you feel like you're talking to somebody who's woken up from a dream or I guess a better way to put it is they woke up from a dream and then in hind site they realized it was a nightmare most of these people who supported during Ryder when they look back at it they can't believe they made this mistake themselves they can't believe it and I've made videos in the past talking about the mix of motives why were people swept up in this enthusiasm and why is it now that it seems so Retta below in retrospect guys in politics leadership matters it really matters whether you put your faith in someone like during Ryder whether you put your your faith in someone like Donald Trump whether you put your trust and hopes in one person rather than another can matter it can be much more decisive than the particular principles or the particular political platform you're choosing to support in the past I've pointed out that in terms of a political platform during a writer and I have a remarkable amount in common we're both very hard and true to be anti-drug you know anti marijuana anti alcohol even anti caffeine like we have stuff in common that way I also have a background doing long distance cycling I've also lived in Thailand for years you know Thailand Laos Cambodia actually there's a lot of common ground there and in terms of aspirations for the future of vegan activism overtly stated you know aspirations you could say he and I have a lot in common too but there are differences of principle and there are differences of person and personal integrity and what durianrider proved is that he does not have the personal integrity to be the most important vegan activist in the world which is what he claimed he was he doesn't deserve that title he didn't earn it he didn't earn your trust on the contrary he's taken the name of veganism and dragged it through the mud he's taken your trust and dragged it through the mud and now his career is over if we win in court it'll be a nice cherry on top but amazingly while this court case has been spinning its wheels has been wasting so much time with paperwork and process which I could talk more about but nobody even wants to know all the details of the paperwork in the process we have seen chapter after chapter unfold in that story sure I'd love to win in court but if the case gets dismissed or if it ends in conclusively or in a dissatisfactory matter I think we all know that in the court of public opinion the judgment has been handed down and now with the deletion of during writers Channel I think I can safely say he is never gonna victimize anyone again the way he tried to make a victim out of me and failed and the way he really did victimize and bully harass defame and slander so many people before me so many people who couldn't stand up for themselves so many people who really suffered and hey in case you think I'm so fitting I'll just say again I see this in a political and historical context you know yeah I've suffered yeah it's been hard on me it's been a it's been a strange process in so many ways I didn't ask for this fight but when the fight was brought to me I played to win however if you're looking at this in the context of other political struggles for civil rights for human rights for any given political cause who has suffered less for me to step up and play my role as a leader in vegan activism what did I have to do I wrote a children's story book I'm paying an illustrator to illustrate the story about I'm going to publish this story book I come on YouTube and talk about my feelings you know I didn't have to live in a cave I didn't have to lead a revolution well I didn't have to go through any of the other horrors that a lot of other political leaders go through in new new political movements I didn't have to spend the day sitting in jail and we do still have a lot of questions about illegal methods of activism and veganism we have new questions being raised right now again by direct action everywhere DXE about methods and people facing prison sentences and so on which I don't support I really don't support that stuff people I haven't had to suffer in any of those ways so yes this did bring an unwanted crisis into my life however I don't feel sort of myself in the slightest apart from the fact that I'm winning apart from the fact that at this point I can say in that past tense I already won compared to any other political leader any other movement past present or future who has suffered less [Music] ba Lu Ciel
up in December in so many ways I have already won durianrider has been discredited his career on YouTube is over his ability to hurt other people is over his ability to harm the future of the vegan movement is over and one by one all the people who supported him woke up I've spoken to many of these people directly and let me tell you when you asked them what were you thinking why did you ever support this guy you feel like you're talking to somebody who's woken up from a dream or I guess the better way to put it is that woke up from a dream and then in hindsight they realized it was a nightmare most of these people who supported during Ryder when they look back at it they can't believe they made this mistake themselves and what durianrider proved is that he does not have the personal integrity to be the most important vegan activist in the world which is what he claimed he was he doesn't deserve that title he didn't earn it he didn't earn your trust on the contrary he's taken the name of veganism and dragged it through the mud he's taken your trust and dragged it through the mud and now his career is over but if the case gets dismissed or if it ends in conclusively or in a dissatisfactory matter I think we all know that in the court of public opinion judgment has been handed down and now with the deletion of during Ryder's channel I think I can safely say he is never gonna victimize anyone again the way he tried to make a victim out of me and failed and the way he really did victimize and bully harass defame and slander so many people before me so many people who couldn't stand up for themselves so many people who really suffered a bonus Yin [Music] uh-uh new yen one of the more hilarious moments in the runoff between Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton in what turned out to be the election of Donald Trump during the final formal debate between the two of them there was a question from the audience although it was very clearly a pre-selected screen the question from the audience nothing spontaneous about it question came from the audience could the two opponents say something positive could each say something positive about the other for the sake of having a more civil and mutually respectful debate and you know Hillary Clinton just barely managed to say something flattering about Donald Trump being a good parent being good father sure about that one the Trump for his part I think he just completely failed to say anything positive about about Hillary he's not really a master of improvisation and he's definitely not a master of flattery you know in a much deeper and more meaningful way when I have had conflicts with professors and believe me at the University of Toronto at University of Victoria at about six other universities I have had conflicts with professors one of the things I always tried to do was take the time go to the library and look up their publications so that I had something positive to say about them you know when a face-to-face meeting or in a meeting chaired by the Ombudsman of the Dean or whatever the situation was so you know I would go to the library and I'm trying to look up whatever books they had published sometimes they hadn't published books I'd have to get their original PhD thesis I'd have to get some obscure article that managed to publish but that put me in a position to say something positive about my opponent in the debate in whatever the situation was or I could sit down and say oh you know I you know I read your book oh you know I read your PhD thesis and I wish I could tell you that I led to a really positive outcomes most of the occasions I couldn't remember it just caused the professor to be stunned and astonished and amazed like it had never occurred to them that anyone actually would read or tells you something sad about the state of academia in the 21st century look I remember once I sat down with the professor where wasn't really a conflict that was actually just meeting with him to talk about graduate school options both MA and PhD options and I had his PhD theses with me on paper so you know I had read it I also had proof that read it you know with me and I was really prepared to talk about details I didn't just want to make a V blandishments where he'd think that I hadn't actually done the reading but I remember he was very uncomfortable with talking about any details in there so it's like flattering and positive I've done to to reach out to professor's sorry I mean when I say flattering the point is you read their book you read their PhD thesis and even if you think 90% of it is garbage you figure out the 10% you could say something positive about it say oh you know I really like I really like the work you did on this issue I really like what you took it this way so you know in my interactions with both freelee and durianrider I have normally made it a point to have something positive to say if you guys watch my own videos on freely my old videos on freely I always took the time to note in a few of freelee's videos she was just talking about her own life experience she was just talking about you know her history as a waitress as a kind of bartender the different job she had different relationships you'd been in there were some videos about freely where she was just talking about her own life talking about things she knew about and cared about and where she was keeping it real and those videos I can respect that side that aspect of what she did on YouTube I can regard as positive and I can respect a lot of other things she does I don't respect a lot of the things she has done and is doing I regard is tremendously negative as harmful to people as dangerous you know dangerous health advice dangerous dietary advice and so on as really damaging to to individual people and as damaging to veganism as a movement and I've been honest about that also right I try to be honest about both sides you know with a guy like durianrider there's not much positive I can say but you know there is one thing is six in my mind and remember two people in in Chiangmai when I was there over a year ago I remember there was this one context and not gonna help tell the whole story where you know durianrider and actually the context did include a lot of kind of lives lies and half-truths and defamations with a strange situation he'd put himself in where he was creating drama but he said about himself that he doesn't let conflicts with individual people he used coarse language I'm leaving out about three swear words and in paraphrases but he says he doesn't let conflicts with individual people get in the way of his personal goals and the example was you know if what he wanted to do that day was right his bicycle up a hill then the fact that he had this conflict the fact that somebody punched him in the face allegedly the fact that he you know had some kind of traumatic experience that day didn't matter he wasn't gonna let that slow him down in the least he wouldn't let a personal conflict get in the way the pursuit of those particular goals I remember you know sitting there or read that confident that Wow okay you know there's there's one little piece of the durianrider personal philosophy that I can really relate to positively now I don't know if it's true I don't know if he lives by that I think I've seen a lot of examples of durianrider letting personal conflicts completely derail his personal goals completely take over his life and also completely change the content on his youtube channel and that is one way to draw up winners and losers today who is doing what they really want to do in their lives and digitally you're on YouTube and who's not when I look at during writers Channel I saw his channel the day before it was deleted every so often I've got to check up on his channel just to see if there's anything material related to the court case for me to know but I remember looking at the list of recent videos on his channel the day before his channel was deleted and just being amazed at what a large percentage of it was clickbait what a large percentage of it was you know pictures of scantily clad women women showing their breasts for no reason and there's barely any relationship between the title of the video and the content of the video and the breasts of the half-naked women just so many videos reaching out for those cheap extraneous views you know and I don't know if that for him is a struggle to make money or if it's struggle to be famous or a struggle to stay relevant but it is really obvious that it's a struggle and my channel same period of time if you look at what's on my channel I'm doing exactly what it is I want to do I'm doing exactly what it is I came on YouTube to do in the first place and what I want to do in the future I mean I've had in recent videos talking about politics of Asia immigration policy in Canada quite a couple different videos talking about the Kree the Ojibwe First Nations indigenous peoples in Canada study of languages of course I've continued to have a lot of videos about vegan politics and what's going on in veganism but it's not the only topic on my channel that's not what I'm here to do and I've continued to have a deep and meaningful connection with a small audience which is exactly what I wanted all along I was never thinking my channel was gonna reach tens of thousands of people but I knew I could have a really meaningful connection with a few hundred people and again can preferred to having a conversation in a coffee shop that's really something if I have a conversation with the coffee shop maybe I just reach one person maybe two or three but to me what I'm on here to YouTube what am you're on YouTube to do is to make friendships to recruit colleagues ultimately to recruit colleagues to really cooperate and collaborate in the vegan movement to engage in you know political lobbying make the world a better place make the world a different place have an impact in Canadian politics and so on and yeah I want to come on here and keep it real whether it's talking about my divorce talking about my personal life talking about dating talking about romance talking about veganism politics philosophy or any of those matters so there are different ways to look at this situation say who's winning and who's losing durianrider completely discredited himself and you know my court case is still not over it's still not resolved I still have another court date coming up I hope it's the last court date but probably won't be it's a really weird mental exercise to ask yourself well what if my court case had wrapped up in record time what if the whole thing had been over in three months or six months you know as in a parallel universe if that had happened then we never would have seen the bizarre process that we have seen here on YouTube in the last year where one by one all of the people who supported durianrider were realized he was impossible to support where one by one people including his closest friends realized that he had been lying to them he had been lying to the public on YouTube and his some extent during Ryder had been lying to himself so give an example you know a guy who I think is really during Ryder's last friend his best friend a close personal friend of his there's this youtuber called angry vegan angry vegan has lived in Durham writers house for several months I think six months but for a number of months he lived interim writers house they have videos with a joke above the fact that he still owes during writer rent in this kind of thing I assume that is just a joke but they've lived together they spent time together they're about as close friends as any two adult heterosexual man men can be they are close personal friends and angry vegans one of the last people still supports during Ryder angry vegan met me and talked to me face to face for more than an hour angry vegan asked to see the receipts from the court case and I sent him literal receipts you know I can talk a little bit more about that but you know it's still a ridiculous - people say they want to seek receipts and you wouldn't want to see the receipts to see the receipts at this point but a receipt is a receipt that's all it is tells you how much was paid and when it was paid that's about it you know and it made it worse anyway this is a ridiculous thing on the internet especially when you're the situation the internet like I'm in I show my passport on camera and durianrider says it's a fake passport so if I show receipts are the internet obviously he's just gonna say they're fake receipts we've kind of been through this a few times with durianrider it's really counterproductive but anyway you know angry vegan I showed him legal documents I showed him receipts but also I just said to him look man you can go to the courthouse if you don't believe me just go to the courthouse which is what during murder should have done and look up the case and I talked him through how to do that so I don't believe he went on a day when court was in session you know when my case was in session I believe he just went up there and he looked at the you know the writing on the wall quite literally and he confirmed that the case was real and ongoing and when the next hearing was and his mind was blown because of course he realized in that moment the extent to which durianrider had lied to him but everything now in my face-to-face conversation with him he did reflect also on his own sense of disappointment with how during writer had lied to him about everything even though durianrider has admitted publicly to using performance-enhancing drugs but performance ANSI drugs I mean drugs like steroids steroids and similar drugs not a soldier steroids but angry vegans said to me that even though he knew that even though he'd seen durianrider talking on the internet admitting the fact that he has a history of using this type of drug angry vegans said to me how shocked and demoralized he felt when he was actually at durian writers house and he saw syringes in the garbage can so during writer that's one young man who really looked up to you that's one young man who really came here on YouTube and was trying to make money the durianrider way trying to have a career as a youtuber a guy who doesn't have formal education who doesn't have a formal career doesn't have you know a lot a job opportunity for word to that's a guy who's really been working hard to emulate you daring writer copy you in many ways he is he is your friend but he's also your fan and in a lot of ways you broke his heart you let him down and I got to see that I got to see that up close face to face with him and then I got to hear back about it when he rode his bicycle up to the courthouse and saw that the court case was real and when he told durianrider which during writer must have known all along when he told her in writer hey you know they're a minor the court case is real because he'd gone to the courthouse and confirmed it himself independently doesn't have to dalat rely on my word or something you went and confirmed it during writers response was to tell angry vegan keep it quiet nobody needs to know so to what extent during Ryder has been lying all along that he always knew it was a real court case is not even worth speculating about but that was his response when people who were close to him in his life and others have talked to me angry vegan is not the only guy closed during writers come forward and talk to me when they said that's him now beyond that I mean there's been this cavalcade over the last year I mean it's like falling dominoes you know the first big one to fall was ain't was some vegan gains Richard vegan gains it's hard to remember now vegan gains used to be a durianrider supporter they had a kind of strategic alliance on YouTube vegan gains turned against their aim Rider because of me because of my case because of my situation because of what Durand writer did against me and that was a huge turning point within our tiny little scene within our tiny Demi Moore Joey carb strong turned against during Ryder I mean so many I mean you know uh I can't attempt to list them all but I mean people like Joey carps are even Jason Posey know before him a lot of these people were his close personal friends I actually I mean durianrider claims that he and Richard were close personal friends too I assume that was true to some extent although I assume you know Jeremiah is also exaggerating and lying about to some extent because during Ryder tends to exaggerate lie about everything but a lot of these people were as close personal friends durianrider didn't just discredit himself in front of his audience he discredited himself with the people who knew him most closely who trusted most closely and one by one over a period of more than a year all of them turned against them and were checked at him you know another one being so cold glucose Network sir glucose network the name of his channel but Abdullah Zainab again he was a huge German writer supporter someone who really believed in and I think idolized durianrider and someone who's trying to imitate and emulate German writer success and even that guy had to eventually you know turn on turn against tearing lighter so it's a really strange you know hypothetical scenario what if the court case in Thailand had been quick and decisive what if it happened right away what did that win in three months that would have been a much more shocking situation for the whole vegan scene and those people wouldn't have had the long deliberative process of reflecting on what durianrider had said what durianrider had done asking themselves who is this guy really and what does any of this mean for the future of the vegan movement now also in that same period of time I really do think this is a victory for me and for people like me what we've seen is lifestyle activism being totally discredited the permanent vacation being abandoned as the leading paradigm in vegan activism so guys I get a lot of email I get a lot of messages on patreon I get a lot of messages from all different sources so I forget where this message came from but from somewhere in Europe could have been Poland I really forget I remember I got a message from somewhere in Europe where the vegan movement is not very strong and the person was saying to me with some frustration look you know locally here this lifestyle activism this perminov aqune activism it totally took over formal vegan movements there were formal vegan movements that previously had kind of imitated Petta had imitated People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals in the United States that wasn't very successful and they said they had switched over apparently due to the success of people like freelee and durianrider they'd switched over to this advocacy of personal beauty and weight loss and yoga pants and sport and you know this this lifestyle glorifying activism that they were trying to imitate what was going on so that email was to me a striking whoa because that was talking about formal or formal vegan political organizations deep politicizing themselves and going over to imitating that that lifestyle like this now there are a few other you know planks in the deck you know if you're really telling that history I do think the short term success of a weight loss book called the skinny [ __ ] has to be remembered people already forget that that was a huge step there was the success of the skinny [ __ ] there was the sucess success of a book by dr. Greger called how not to die and then yeah there was the success short term meteoric success of freely and a number of other people like freely and that convinced a lot of people that lifestyle activism was the future and in the same period of time during which my court case made incredibly little progress was sitting around you know in court in Thailand basically people stopped regarding lifestyle activism of the future and they started regarding lifestyle activism as the past now I am not the only voice in that debate but I was one of the first I was one of the loudest I was the most consistent and of course the fact that durianrider debated me the fact that he responded to me the fact that he you know attacked my criticism of the permanent vacation and lifestyle activism then also elevated the significance my critique where people could realize hey I was hitting home I was offering criticism that mattered to the people being criticized and you know I think that is true across the board I've talked to those people and a lot of those people have changed a lot of those people have moved on I don't have to name names in a lot of ways the scene has collapsed and an individual level people made the choice to go back to school to go back to having a real job the dream of you know the dream were the nightmare of earning your living as a so-called full-time activist when what you're doing is not even activism that has gone out of style and new fashions have come in to replace it you know I would say currently Joey Karp Strong's method is fashionable Earthling EDS method is fashionable and currently I don't think it's gonna last what vegan gains has been doing with these long format debates via you know live-streaming debates of the internet between vegans meters that's currently fashionable now each of those has its own advantages and disadvantages we could do in a critique about that but fundamentally all of them all of them are vastly superior to the yoga pants' weight-loss cult of personal beauty called the personality lifestyle activist and permanent vacation paradigm that I was criticizing here on YouTube for a period of about two years that's over and now of course the other thing that's over is durian writers career and during writers influence so you know obviously I played a role in I played a role in the collapse of his career and his influence but the largest role goes to durianrider himself he destroyed his own credibility more than I could have ever destroyed his credibility simply put you know he made bad choices in terms of what is the situation with the case today again I don't even get questions about this anymore which is another sense in which I have one if it was the case that tons of people had a lot of interest in this that might be a bad sign frankly for me the less public interest there is in the case the better because you know I'm not trying to make durianrider famous again I'm really not in December in mid-december I have another day in court in Chiang Mai the most recent a couple months ago the last court date in Chiang Mai a bunch of vegans attended they went just to have a look so Sam of the vegan went to my last court date and Joe best I've seen a photograph of Joe best in court he showed up in my day in court so this is another thing discredited during Ryder and Shanghai to a massive extent the fact that there were so many people there who saw for themselves that the court case is ongoing who actually showed up in court and were witnesses to the ongoing proceedings against the rain writer I don't get I don't receive questions about the finances from anyone except durianrider during writer did write to me the other day asking what happened to the $6,500 the $6,500 itself that the fee for the for the lawyer that went directly to the lawyer and again I've shown receipts there of course I mean the problem is we live in a world people said well that receipts can be faked of course they can be faked you think about like if you actually go to a shop and buy something what is a receipt a receipt is a piece of paper printed out from a compete anyone can print out that piece of paper but you know also in this case we're talking about a receipt that's sent by email so it's just it's an email attachment sent to me from my lawyer but again the way to confirm this is to go to the courthouse if you want to you can phone up my law firm or something you know if you eat a journalist for example really want to verify this a journalist could make those phone calls or take those steps you know whether it's to the courthouse to the law firm what have you to verify listens but the receipt itself is not a magical solution to this this problem a problem that's only created by durianrider and only for very transparently self-serving interests but that went from the crowdfunding website directly to the law firm so it was never in my bank account if that money was transferred directly from the crowdfunding site to to the law firm and I'm glad that squeaked in in terms of the exchange rate that was just enough money and ty bought at the time so that was a that was a near-miss thing actually it was not I was not happy about that at the time long story but a hard it was to even get that that transfer done from my crappy bank in in Kunming China was love me at the time you know there also is some money that was not sent to the crowdfunding site that was sent to PayPal the money that was sent to PayPal which will be a couple hundred extra dollars or maybe over one thousand dollars I was never able to get the money out of PayPal when I go back to Canada I can try I am assuming that the money from PayPal is much less than the amount I've spent just flying back and forth to Thailand to chiang mai thailand in order to attend the court date but I won't know until I get back to Canada presumably get on the phone with PayPal and then from a fixed address in Canada with a Canadian bank account struggle to try to get PayPal to send me that money I mean I guess I'm optimistic and even assuming once I'm back in Canada I'll be able to get the money people it's possible I'll never be able to get it that is that is possible but you know for whatever reason when I was in China and I did believe me I got on the phone I made long-distance phone calls to PayPal I had angry email back and forth and PayPal couldn't do it or wouldn't do it I'd assumed that's partly just because it was a bank account in China but obviously it's it's a it's a real black market against PayPal because I was there I'm saying look I can send you guys photographs of my you know my passport in my visa proving that it's really me I'm really in China this is really my bank account look what's the problem Iran but I could never get a straight answer to PayPal so if there's an extra 1,000 bucks that was donated by a PayPal not via the crowdfunding site it's possible I'll collect that eventually as possible I never will and then I'll just looked at look at well I've had to repeatedly fly back and forth to Chiang Mai just to the core case and say well are we just gonna say that balance is out or is there any significant difference where Iran and I will yeah I mean I if there's some difference I can give some of the two to a vegan charity or what-have-you but at this point you know I just say I'll cross that bridge and get it because it has been impossible working with PayPal from my Garret in you know and China that has really been impossible and again if anyone if anyone doesn't believe it you can really quickly Google bad experiences with PayPal tons of people have bad experiences it's hilarious durianrider attacked me on that too claiming that nobody nobody has truthful with international international financial transfers in PayPal well believe me plenty of us have trouble with international finance financial transfers if they fell I'm just one of them so yeah the next day in court is coming up in December in so many ways I have already won durianrider has been discredited his career on YouTube is over his ability to hurt other people is over his ability to harm the future of the vegan movement is over and one by one all the people who supported him woke up and like I've spoken to Joey carbs strong directly I've spoken to Richard vegan gains directly I've spoken to many of these people directly and let me tell you when you asked them what were you thinking why did you ever support this guy you feel like you're talking to somebody who's woken up from a dream or I guess a better way to put it is they woke up from a dream and then in hind site they realized it was a nightmare most of these people who supported during Ryder when they look back at it they can't believe they made this mistake themselves they can't believe it and I've made videos in the past talking about the mix of motives why were people swept up in this enthusiasm and why is it now that it seems so Retta below in retrospect guys in politics leadership matters it really matters whether you put your faith in someone like during Ryder whether you put your your faith in someone like Donald Trump whether you put your trust and hopes in one person rather than another can matter it can be much more decisive than the particular principles or the particular political platform you're choosing to support in the past I've pointed out that in terms of a political platform during a writer and I have a remarkable amount in common we're both very hard and true to be anti-drug you know anti marijuana anti alcohol even anti caffeine like we have stuff in common that way I also have a background doing long distance cycling I've also lived in Thailand for years you know Thailand Laos Cambodia actually there's a lot of common ground there and in terms of aspirations for the future of vegan activism overtly stated you know aspirations you could say he and I have a lot in common too but there are differences of principle and there are differences of person and personal integrity and what durianrider proved is that he does not have the personal integrity to be the most important vegan activist in the world which is what he claimed he was he doesn't deserve that title he didn't earn it he didn't earn your trust on the contrary he's taken the name of veganism and dragged it through the mud he's taken your trust and dragged it through the mud and now his career is over if we win in court it'll be a nice cherry on top but amazingly while this court case has been spinning its wheels has been wasting so much time with paperwork and process which I could talk more about but nobody even wants to know all the details of the paperwork in the process we have seen chapter after chapter unfold in that story sure I'd love to win in court but if the case gets dismissed or if it ends in conclusively or in a dissatisfactory matter I think we all know that in the court of public opinion the judgment has been handed down and now with the deletion of during writers Channel I think I can safely say he is never gonna victimize anyone again the way he tried to make a victim out of me and failed and the way he really did victimize and bully harass defame and slander so many people before me so many people who couldn't stand up for themselves so many people who really suffered and hey in case you think I'm so fitting I'll just say again I see this in a political and historical context you know yeah I've suffered yeah it's been hard on me it's been a it's been a strange process in so many ways I didn't ask for this fight but when the fight was brought to me I played to win however if you're looking at this in the context of other political struggles for civil rights for human rights for any given political cause who has suffered less for me to step up and play my role as a leader in vegan activism what did I have to do I wrote a children's story book I'm paying an illustrator to illustrate the story about I'm going to publish this story book I come on YouTube and talk about my feelings you know I didn't have to live in a cave I didn't have to lead a revolution well I didn't have to go through any of the other horrors that a lot of other political leaders go through in new new political movements I didn't have to spend the day sitting in jail and we do still have a lot of questions about illegal methods of activism and veganism we have new questions being raised right now again by direct action everywhere DXE about methods and people facing prison sentences and so on which I don't support I really don't support that stuff people I haven't had to suffer in any of those ways so yes this did bring an unwanted crisis into my life however I don't feel sort of myself in the slightest apart from the fact that I'm winning apart from the fact that at this point I can say in that past tense I already won compared to any other political leader any other movement past present or future who has suffered less [Music] ba Lu Ciel