Not quite a fist fight (Vegans in Chiang Mai)

hey guys what's up this is a temporary
update podcast and that's unusual for me most of whatever cord I'm thinking will last five years will last 100 years will be there for my daughter to hear one day and this is not I would like to make a more philosophical and reflective video for youtube or for you guys as a podcast here on patreon soon reflecting on this event but long story short to just provide a quick update today this is May 31st in Thailand yesterday May thirtieth I had a run-in with a guy named Jimmy we actually bumped into each other three times in the same day spread out over a period of eight hours and that did come close to a fistfight twice the first events at noon and the last event is at 8pm so says even a tower split uh maybe at seven-forty-five last night but they don't know you know the problem is partly that there will prob there will still be rumors spreading about this today I think the rumors will be based on the run and we had with each other at noon but I came here to Thailand completely prepared for the possibility of someone assaulting me completely prepared for someone trying to instigate a fistfight or escalate a situation into a physical conflict and it's a good thing i'm prepared because that's exactly what happened yesterday with this guy named Jimmy Jimmy you know he literally wears a vegan t-shirt he's part of the pro durianrider seen here he didn't he doesn't seem to have a lot of friends I'm not saying that to him sult him but I mean he wasn't he wasn't acting with a group of people backing him up or a posse or something he was very much acting alone in trying to start a fistfight now the reason why I want to do a more philosophical set of reflections on this in the future is that how I handled this really does reflect my own background and philosophy and what I call real philosophy if you think about what Socrates was doing you think about peripatetic method in ancient Greece the ability to talk to someone on the street literally to talk to someone who's upset about a war upset about justice and injustice upset about real problems and to take that discussion and make get philosophical to deal with the profound underlying issues instead of just dealing with ego or dealing with anger and instead of having a fistfight that is from my perspective a crucial part of real philosophy although I do not get to define what's real philosophy and what's fake philosophy I'm just saying from my perspective that's where it's at so I think there are deeper issues here that are worth talking about but to give a short shallow version of what happened at noon I met Leah at a mall that has a vegan food court in the basement sorry it's a food court that has all kinds of food but one of the stalls is a vegan buffet so it's a food court that has a vegan option available and the seating is really crowded there it's a bunch of seats at a long wooden table so there are a whole lot of Thai people they're all sitting down this table it's you know it's lunchtime it's busy there are just a lot of people period and I actually sat down initially just with Leah and with one israeli guy and israeli vegan who is pro durianrider and is doing the whole long-distance cycling thing and he was very literally doing the permanent vacation thing he's here on long-term vacation riding up and down the same motor the writing riding his bicycle epiny on the same mountain every day etc um but this Israeli guy even though he knew who I was and you might youtube channel and you know he appreciated me and wanted to talk with me although obviously is a fan of during writer which you know shows maturity and what have you you can be a fan of both I mean I talked about City Hall durianrider talks about weight loss you know you can be a fan of both real politics and whatever it is during writer sewing I don't really have anything against that on a problem with that but anyway this guy Jimmy he joined us and several other vegans joined us also and the several other vegans who I don't really know I could see you from the way they looked at me they knew who I was they had some sense that I was an important person or some sense that it was dangerous for them to be sitting down with me you know what I mean you could see they were apprehensive but the whole situation but they weren't rude or anything um so you know it is what it is so quite a few other vegans kind of drifted into the room and some sat down with us not all but this guy Jimmy was was looking for his first opportunity to start a fight start a fistfight and I guess I'm not going to get into details this recording of exactly who said what but there he did you know come to the edge of throwing punches he was you know trembling with rage and stuff and I reacted in terms of what I said how I said it I remained calm because I was used to this and also because the actual content of what he was saying is all stuff I could handle he did say some things that sounded anti-semitic and if you're an outsider listening to it because he was jumping in on a conversation i had with was having with this israeli guy you know i do not i do not believe he's anti-semitic i think he was just angry and looking for an excuse he was looking for excuse to say something so outrageous that it was going to cause a fistfight that's it was trying to do and what he said he was accusing me of being racist against Palestinians good luck with that I'm not a pro Zionist I'm not racist against Palestinians but whatever and i'm also not offended if you say that I am so we can talk about it but anyway not the best tactic but what he said did come out sounding offensive and stupid and anti-semitic which again I don't think he meant and then he immediately followed that up I did respond a pretty detached way to the content of what he was saying but he then fold that up by saying what was really on his mind by denouncing me as as being some kind of critic of during writer and demanding to know what I was doing here anyway how dare i come to chiang mai anyway now I did respond to that and you know the chain law has been a big part of my life for more than 10 years I told them of the living in Southeast Asia I mean yeah I was just not responding to this by escalating the conflict I was also not afraid as I've said here recently I'm not a nice guy you know if this guy wants a fist fight with me broad daylight all right let's do it you really want to throw punches in the middle of a crowded mall in the food court of a mall it's full of people well we're both going to spend the night in prison if you do that you know Thai authorities they won't care who started the fight or who said what you know they'll put us in both in jail for maybe one night maybe a couple nights and then probably let you out i mean you know Thai authorities have a lot of experience dealing with drum an unruly tourists they probably did not have as much experience dealing with completely clean and sober vegans starting a fist fight over nothing in a food court but hey the cops will treat you the same way as they'll treat some stoned you know drunks in a bar who start a fist fight over nothing you know sir all right you know I'm not afraid to go to prison I'm not afraid to handle this fist fight you know my attitude but in terms of what I actually said back to him I did just address the substance of what he was saying and I was also tried inform about Who I am because these people he hadn't watched any of my videos on YouTube he just had some vague idea of me as as an enemy of the people and he was trying to show you know his fealty to the cult that's what it is he's trying to show that he's the most loyal disciple without understanding what's going on or why any of it matters and above all else you know he's wearing a t-shirt that says save the planet he's not trying to save the planet starting a fistfight with me he's not trying to save the planet by denouncing me for being a Jew good luck homeboy anyway also a Jimmy Jimmy's a big guy just mentioned a he's I'm 643 he's about the same height as me and he's big all over so you know would have been a would have been a real fight you know unlike someone dramatically larger dramatics dramatically smaller than me he's definitely much younger than me i would guess his age at twenty-one twenty-two twenty-three could be off no big deal but anyway that situation ended because the minute i was just responding but breaking it was a hey man if you want to make it happen we can make it happen but look you know this is who I am I've been doing scholarship of Southeast Asia for you no more than a decade I don't know since when since 2002 2003 or something you know I've been coming going to Chiang Mai I lived in Thailand for years Laos Cambodia this area Thailand Laos Cambodia yin and you know this is this is what I'm about I've been coming here since before there was any vegan festival I'm a you know I'm somebody trying to organize political activism you know for veganism and ecological change or the Internet whatever man see me when you seek me like you know is this is this really a problem and you know he is part of it you know he was trembling I wouldn't say with rage you know when guys get into that mindset your true he's trembling because you know he's got the adrenaline going and you know uh his instincts are all acting up and you know at a pretty early stage he stood up you know he wasn't sitting in his seat he was standing up over this table in the food court and you know he started putting all of his food onto one plate so he could move away to another table so I guess at that point I guess he'd already given up the idea of actually having a fistfight with me that minute but he was still trying to show what a tough guy he was and how much he could intimidate me or insult me or disrespect me I guess to this event had a fair number of witnesses and I'm guessing different stories about it are still circulating like today and I assume Jimmy himself has told some distorted version of the story or tried to make me sound like an [ __ ] or something as I say whether or not someone observing it whether or not they think I was a nice guy and handling it I did handle it and you know I responded to someone disrespecting me and threatening me in a way that was you know relatively respectful and controlled but still you know commanding and forceful and saying look this is my table like you know you said there to join me I didn't disrespect you you disrespected me where we take it from here um so you know it is what it is but because you know you're not gonna have a kind of fistfight in the mall as a joke oh it's not you know he could have thrown a punch or two but I mean this is not not really gonna go anywhere uh but I mean he was trying to instigate something and I knew very well you know this can spill over this can carry on this can happen tomorrow night or something else so that is why wouldn't handle it I bumped into him once more on the street when he was on his bike he shouted crude insults at me from his bicycle as a couple hours later um and then I bumped into him again on the street 745 or 8pm when I was walking Leah home Lee and I talked for eight hours solid from New today p.m. and there as I say on the street so he was again that started off being on the edge of having a real fistfight I'm not going to get the details who said what but I did handle that and really philosophical way and the positive thing that came out of that discussion on the street corner that started with him being on the edge of having a street fight with me and of him saying he didn't want to talk to me at all and refuse to talk to me and I managed to transform that into a relatively you know informative exchange of views I managed to make that into a philosophical conversation and where he really learned who I am what I'm about and what motivates me and you know whether or not he respects it his whole attitude changed his whole understanding the situation changed and you know his assumptions about who I was were obviously challenged and you know it ended with no possibility i don't think that guy's going to start a fistfight with me today tomorrow or ever and I think if he's now going to tell the story of what happened yesterday he would not tell such a crude and insulting version but as say like eight hours passed so probably during that eight hours he told a lot of people some version that story and other people the other witnesses there might have told some version of it you know whether the it's just to make me sound like a jerk or what but in a sense that's a shame because the final conversation we had it at eight o'clock on the street on the street corner with only me him and Lee us there's only one of their witness to that it's just the three of us there you know that did have a positive outcome in the end but again if you witness that you might think I'm a real nice guy in a sense I'm not in a sense you know what I'm doing is handling that situation and ultimately my attitude was you know from start to finish if you want to have this fistfight you know okay we're going to do it now you know if that's what it's got to be that's what it's got to be I was completely willing to you know resort to violence or you know spend the night in jail or what have you but I mean among the last things I said to them because i'm going to say I in that conversation I really won in the sense that you know transformed the whole situation as attitude towards it but you know at the end of that conversation I was saying things to him like look man you're welcome to disagree with me on the internet if you watch my youtube channel and you disagree with nine things out of ten that I say that's great I'm happy for you but there's one thing at a time we still have in common that's the thing written on your t-shirt okay your t-shirt says vegan your t-shirt says you're trying to save the planet why don't you really think about how different this whole situation would be if you were actually motivated to save the planet you know so as I say there are actually a lot of sort of deeper things to reflect on coming out of that whole scenario for now this is long story short this is just to put this this update out from a patreon supporters and you know I hope nothing worth worse comes of it today from my perspective you know problem got addressed and I was willing to address it I've you know my preference was to address it philosophically to deal with things non-violently I'm never out here looking to cause a ruckus to make someone respect me as soon as you have the idea that you have to punish someone for disrespecting you you got you got the wrong attitude towards life I'm not trying to make anyone respect me from my perspective he's welcome to make videos that disrespect me or disagree with me that's part of democracy freedom of speech and all that so I'm not trying to make him respect me but if you're going to violate me if you're actually going to assault me then yes I'm gonna fight back and yes we're going to have to resolve it that way because that's the situation you created Jimmy it was choice you made and I was a hundred percent prepared for that every time I bumped into him yesterday we bumped into each other three times even though it's not my preference and I did I did get what I wanted I got my preference I got to deal with it philosophically and it was on the level of philosophy that i won so you know what can I tell you reading Aristotle and Socrates and all that it has some has some practical value in life even when you're dealing with such what might seem to be such a kind of immature silly and stupid situation alright guys that's enough for now hopefully I'm not giving you another update like three hours from now about another fist fight that broke out or something but I mean it's it's real and I mean obviously Leah and I talked for so many hours there were a lot of reflections on you know the good and the bad and the ugly of what's going on here and this kind of cult mentality that's developed around one form of veganism but you know I said to him some things that you've heard me say on youtube before too like I said to him look man I try to cooperate with people I have all kinds of differences from I don't really have that much in common with Hania that much come with Jason you know but were vegan and I'm trying to make something positive effort I'm trying to cooperate and collaborate with all kinds of people and I mentioned I talked to him about the the Mormon woman plant-based hippie you know she's a conservative mormon you know but she's vegan some things we have in common and some things we don't and I'm interested in building on the comic r and stuff and again that part of it that was already after I kind of you know settled his hostility at it kind of overcome we're not on the edge of having a fistfight at that moment anymore but obviously that was a new idea for him that was a fundamentally different way of thinking about veganism and what he's doing in Chiang Mai and what I'm doing in Chiang Mai and what he's doing on that street corner trying to instigate a [ __ ] punch up with me that's a different way from seeing though of seeing the world and of course what it's different from is exactly what he sees on durian writers youtube channel and the ideologies that he has fashioned for himself partly out of durianrider partly also probably he gets some of his attitude from gary Yourofsky probably get some of his attitude from other sources I don't know you know he's got his own mentality his own view of the world these put together in these bits and pieces and yeah as simple as that sounds my saying to him you know I actually try to cooperate with a conservative mormon who you know believes pornography is evil and I try to cooperate with you know all kinds of people who are of different religions and different beliefs and different political values and I do it because I'm really vegan I'm really trying to save the planet I'm really concerned about the ecology and ethics of veganism that for him Ultima think that's a message he's going to carry with him for the rest of his life but otherwise look man at this age you know I'm not getting any prettier I don't mind getting the bruises I don't mind getting my teeth knocked out I don't mind spending the night in prison I don't mind getting uglier I don't mind putting my blood down on the concrete if that's what it's gotta be then that's what it's got to be it's not my preference I'd rather win exactly the way I one in this scenario but anybody can get it and for me at age 37 homeboy on a deep level I do not care if I live or die and that is a difference between me and all you fake-ass tough guys who are out here on permanent vacation okay y'all you guys are here ultimately for the sake of vanity and I never was I was here for meaningful reasons doing real things whether it's the humanitarian research the historical research the language research everything you guys are you guys on patreon I've heard me talk about this stuff to death but it was real for me then it's real for me now this is a part of my life and that's why I talked about it on YouTube and freely and durian writer or a part of my life that's what Doug about them on YouTube and all I talk about on YouTube is being honest to build my real life whether it's my divorce or my job situation of the languages i'm studying but i'm out here really trying to do something positive so if you're out here trying to start a fist fight over nothing you gotta look in the mirror and examine your means your motives and how it is you're trying to make the world a better place