Biopsychiatry vs Critical Psychiatry: the Implications.

about whether morality is based on
morality being because of luck yeah this idea with psychological problems substance abuse disorders are wrapped up anyway yeah ultimately I have a hard time saying to these people that it's your fault because whatever conditions they were raised in or whoever they got involved with led to these substance abuse problems I don't think it's a you know many of these personality disorders like your father's I mean I don't know if it's beneficial to say it's your fault or but you ask is it beneficial to say this is your fault before we were asking the question is is it beneficial to say this is not your fault I just say to someone who has depression everyone is spoken to a psychiatrist it's not you it's your brain chemistry that's that's the standard excusing they hand out the SSRI drugs they hand up the meds get you doped up don't worry it's not well the opposite is say it's you it's nobody else but you like ultimately this question if you're gonna be you know sad or happy it comes anyway if you're gonna be honest or dishonest if you're gonna be a kleptomaniac or a lot but I said it's on you in the past people assumed when Koreans learn English they speak with a Korean accent for genetic reasons you can see how like from a naive perspective that seems like a reasonable assumption right okay so you're Korean but you still speak English with his accents and your kids also speak English for the Korean accent so it seems genetic that there were psychological and language language motor issues and ultimately tongue movement issues or something that are based India easy leap of efforts to make scientifically totally false it's been totally disproved there was a ton of research done in this right and it is that makes sense like as an influence it seems logical right so you see to me this is this is parallel where you have kind of complex behavioral problem that it's similar to speaking with an accent right it's something to perform at something behave it's ultimately an attention-getting disorder right why do you act depressed but large parts get attention to people you know why do you try to look beautiful and they even believe it was there are social elements to this in terms of being perceived in things man it's not it's not it's not even as simple as a phobia or it's just a feeling that rises up in you it's something you're exhibiting and performing for other people and so on right it means it seems to be a little bit too easy it seems to me facile just with the accident to link to sorry to leap to the inference this has a physiological basis like the shape of the tongue or the mouth that's easy to assume Korean people look different the shape of their mouth looks different so it's easy to think oh they have a Korean accent because of the shape of the mouth completely false right scientifically it's been disproved it's easy to leap to the assumption this person has PTSD has certain kinds of cowardly behaviors to be blunt this person has certain kinds of depressed behaviors therefore there's a camp biochemical basis physiological basis or genetic basis to me that's that's easy to lead to but precisely because it's so easy after trying to challenging why can't be measured right so my opening salvo was to say narcissistic personality disorder is a type of behavior it's a type of character it's like a pattern of behaviors a type of person but is it a disease no and thus is there a cure or is there even treatment no is there a you know biochemical disorder or physiological basis no but it's a pattern of behavior linked to a type of character so I just got a bit of an interesting question from Mohammed who's sitting here in the same room with me not not sending me a message on patreon or her on the Twitter or something um talking about different psychological conditions people in my life have or have been diagnosed with and to what extent it's really useful to talk in terms of psychological diagnosis at all and Mohamed asked do you think this is an actual sickness do you think this is an actual disease we're talking about all right away in a sense of course it's not a sickness because there's no cure right it's tragic but like okay we have here a description of a type of person a description of a type of character or even you could just say a stereo tonight but of course it's not in this sense terms of so he has a background in biochemistry and you know biology has applied to medicine this could never match the criteria for what we consider a disease an illness or even uh even a condition right so what do we have with something like MPD narcissistic personality disorder you have a description of a type of person and a type of behavior and then we can say to what extent an individual person's behavior matches this stereotype one of the ultimate ones is being being a compulsive liar or mythomania it can never be diagnosed because the whole psychiatric establishment and psychotherapeutic establishment is based on the assumption that a therapist can sit down with a client and that the client will be honest with the therapist the therapist makes no attempt to verify the truth or accuracy of what the client says it's really if we're being honest the tradition is based on the Catholic confession booth right well it's just assumed the person system so admission is for when my father went to see his therapist there would be no way for that therapist to judge the accuracy of the statements already why would the therapist even suspect that the statements are a lie or misleading or what-have-you a therapist would never ask who I'm certain this happened so my father went in and talked to his therapist about his email correspondence with me the therapist doesn't read the emails right the therapist doesn't talk to me on skype and say look what really happened and why so these things be very easy to do it wouldn't you wouldn't have to hire her detective or something but a patient can go in to a therapist and live for the whole session so you know what what does the diagnosis mean any [Music] description of a psychiatric condition to justify I think the more disturbing side of it is to ask is the research being done to help or not whoa depression is an extreme example of this is it helpful to people to be told that their depression isn't merely sadness or sorrow or a problem it isn't something fleeting it isn't a rational response to conditions in their life that are making them unhappy with that it's an innate condition that you're born with a chemical imbalance in your brain something already debunked in the 1980s completely false marketing claim for SSRI drugs depression is not a chemical imbalance of the brain it's been proven we have separate videos in that so in that case you know I noticed you have the word objective in them no object but if that were true that would be falsifiable right so the the original hypothesis that depression is produced by chemical imbalance in the brain that it was specifically linked to serotonin and closely linked chemicals that has been disproven and we can test because we can measure levels of serotonin in the brain so it's not the case that serotonin levels are too high or too low with with people too bright these newer transfers and a long series of other chemicals once that idea became popular and started making millions of dollars there were other well maybe it's not serotonin maybe it's this other neurotransmitters this notice that and one by one they've all been tested and there's a lot there's a lot of money in this area of research and none of them have a food troop seriously in general if there were truth to that that would be falsifiable now the other statement he made people can be mournful sorrowful miserable with no objective reason well right but they have subjective reasons yeah so when I when I was at the University of Toronto it was incredibly unhappy and the period of my being the most unhappy which certainly could have been could have been diagnosed as depression doesn't matter was when I was in the advanced course on Plato this is a 400 level of course the highest level of philosophy or some play-doh and the professor also seemed to be nearly suicidal it was so terrible not none of the other students did the reading I was the only student who actually read the books assigned on Plato this is I mean my life has had so many dark period since then I feel I feel bad saying this is one of the darkest periods about it was really really present now for you for what you say ok objectively what's bad about my life I have a home my sleep I eat you know I have a shower you know objectively what's depressing about your life I'm not you know not in a war zone or something there weren't a you know obvious objective reasons for me to be unhappy there hasn't been a death in my family or some kind of trauma but if anyone asked me what do you and happy about I could very easily articulate all of the reasons why I'm happy including Canadian culture and political conditions and the kind of stuff you hear me talk about on this youtube channel all the time but sure in a very simple level the incredibly low caliber of intellectual content in the university and the crushing realization that I had no opportunities after this this is my last opportunity to get an education for me there was going to be no master's degree and no PhD and no career another the hopelessness of my whole life looking ahead these are subjective reasons that completely explain but but even then even if you just met and looked at the professor for that course you might be if you sat there in the classroom and thought yeah I see why this is depressing I see why listening to this guy talk about the flaws you play this way so my point is you you left in a caveat there he said people can be depressed with no objective reason why there are subjective reasons but then to leap to an impossible to substantiate falsifiable claim that is based on a a biochemical imbalance this is not this is not easily supported this is not easily but the people who can be diagnosed with having major depressive disorder usually Kent like they don't understand water so I like in in weather even suicidal right and you can explain the difference between two people with the same conditions so is Britain and theoretically theoretically the other people in the same class with me the other people studying Plato and Xenophon maybe they're all happy or some of them are very happy right this is the point so their their subjective experience in the same course they may be completely happy in theory they could have the same conditions in their life in all other ways but they don't have my expectations or ambitions or they're just stupid I mean nobody else in the class was actually reading the book I know that for a fact because it was a seminar class okay we'll just say I heard enough nobody else was even doing the assigned readings Plato but they were happy I guess or happier than me so sure this is a difference it's a really motion that makes it hard to feel so on this I completely disagree I really do disagree I think that creating a category for medical depression is not something you can easily justify philosophically or medically right so I mean if you actually want to create a category that we're talking about something other than sadness other than misery you have to tell me what those what those criteria are and how they're how they're measurable well anything that exists scientifically anything that's scientifically valid measured and when we get into these these types of claims that depression is not sadness what is there that cannot be just it's something other than sadness yeah well so why what I mean I think we don't know I don't have a prepared statement what why should we presume there's something other than sadness because usually they make the same claim that you know that's just a 15 minute checklist that's just a verbal interview there's no there's nothing - so nothing consistent about turn in terms of also the outcomes and response to the drugs and so on it's a 15 minute interview how do you feel sad how many days a week do you feel so you can see you can look at the checklist you can look there see if look quick parallel because this is not exclusively about depression this discussion the checklist for establishing that someone is a psychopath Psychopaths and sociopaths both have official tests in the United States they are primarily used in prisons it's just it's just a checklist there's nothing scientific it's just based on interviews you just ask them how do you feel compassion in this scenario in this hypothetical situation how do you feel what happens and then based on that based on that interview you're diagnosed with a supposedly innate condition so I mean what you know what exists no it's character type it's a type of person it's a type of behavior and this is assigned to people in prison based on me again you couldn't look at the actual interview sheets what questions they're asked and you or I both probably if you just think about those questions you could you could choose to give answers that you know are more likely to lead to the diagnosis or it could choose to give answers that you know would have ate it if you are so if you are motivated to do so yeah so no I you know what I mean depression recently unnatural vegan talked about this went in a 15-minute interview got diagnosed with depression and then gone on these drugs that was it so what is the empirically verifiable basis for depression or even major depressive disorder it's it's pretty pathetic there is no so again any other condition any other condition let's talk about if you tell me that diabetes is a real disease we have a blood test for that we have empirically verifiable tests we have the easiest way to chest text for diabetes is that we give you a very sugary drink we give you something like sprite it's no and then we measure the change in your blood sugar every so many minutes after you drink this this sprite and we can tell okay one person has this condition one person doesn't now what's the other easy to do test someone who does have diabetes responds differently to the drugs to insulin and other therapeutic treatment than someone who does not have diabetes so if you give the same drugs to two different people one of whom is diabetic one who's not you get dramatically different outcomes okay if you give adderall to someone who is diagnosed with attention deficit disorder and someone who is not it has exactly the same effects it's not compensating for a chemical imbalance in the brain if you give antidepressants to the scene to two people one of whom is diagnosed with major depression disorder and one of them is not you get exactly the same effects and the something I've pointed out repeatedly here on YouTube there's a split class of drugs here there's SSRI drugs and ss-sorry drugs SSRI or serotonin reuptake inhibitors and SS re or serotonin uptake enhancers they have opposite chemical effects of the brain and if you give depressed people these two drugs with opposite chemical effects the outcome is the same this is smoking gun evidence that this is not a treatment for so this is this is the kind of room we get into yes being diabetic is a real you know is a real medical condition and it fits all these criteria so why are we throwing away these criteria when we try to establish at least conceptually or philosophically that depression is something different from from sadness and misery but it but if so then why should it be so easily to reduce it to a single well that's that is what I'm asking you though that how can you make the leap to say in I mean you know you started off by making a leap saying there is a biochemical basis for these ok physiological ok so why [Music] don't you think there's a reason to assume no so kleptomania kleptomania is stealing basically compulsive steal you would satisfy your criteria where people describe it consistently in the same way so is there a biological basis physiologically for kleptomania bulimia people who want to be thin and he would achieve weight loss through force compulsively forcing themselves to vomit you can you can have a huge mass of interview data where people give similar description to the same script did they fit your criteria does that have a biochemical or physiological basis but you think well so using bulimia tendencies into Mystic so you think bulimia is is a condition more like insulin resistance or no it's a different kind of so how how would how would that be verified how would that be falsified how would you actually test them well we a lot of traits genes are not necessarily deterministic elements depends on what they define how you react to the environment and this and like the way you react to the environment is a genetically determined trait but not necessarily like the the resulting like phenotype which is for example PSD or this is not directly determined by genes but the way you reacted to those certain conditions this is so is there any test for that so you know tay-sachs disease sickle cell anemia there are real genetic disorders yet there they meet Karl Popper standard of falsifiability the idea that you're depressed because of your DNA the idea that you have the zone of the solution with the idea that you are a kleptomaniac because of your DNA or the idea that you're a bulimic because your DNA I do not believe there is any test for that I don't believe there's any measurement which I'll talk about a psychological problem here there are a lot of traits of diseases which are defined it this way like they're not necessarily deterministic but but they do define how your body reacts and how you react to similar no no it's not everywhere in psychology there's no there's no genetic basis for kleptomania you should Bobo's theater I mean okay well why why not kleptomania and why not bulimia or what is the difference with those I take your points you believe that genetics is responsible for depression what evidence could that be what does it come from what's the falsifiable or testable basis for them well can you just because you then if someone else has the same conditions and see how you read but you also you're all approaching to be based on excluding the subjective element no which is everything else so if if I become depressed because I'm taking a bad course on player because I'm disappointed with the quality of university education is that genetic why would that be a genetic difference to me and the other people in class if one young woman is obsessed with being thin and then she takes the next step of that obsession becoming bulimia why would that be you know even if that if that is your hypothesis it's fine some hypotheses how would you test that I bother this how would that be falsifiable you're taking leaves here that are not scientific materialistic I've divided my shoes in Emily wait okay look if I'm terrified of spiders even that so this is arachnophobia even that is impossible to pin to genetics and there's a pretty clear evolutionary reason to be afraid of spiders by me how was even hypothetically possible to test for a genetic basis for depression kleptomania bulimia if you subject to the same conditions both similarly same way and if H was ergodic twins react differently and one of them becomes depressed in the other not this is this is one way you can you can find probably so do you actually think the future is a genetic cure for depression so what what is the utility of the said because for my mother said if you're you're wrong at every stage analysis what would be the advantage if I believe what you are proposing course not as well as horse of course of course look dwarfism is an innate condition you're born with a there are many many different DNA forms that build orphism the fact that someone is born a dwarf may lead to a lot of frustration in their life you know they're they're physically small they're disabled they need various forms of surgery very often they have all kinds of health problems they're not strong they probably much more difficult for them to fall in love and have a romantic life there are all kinds of problems people with dwarfism right so if you tell me dwarfs have a higher rate of depression or nobody would be surprised by that okay but this does not establish a genetic basis this is an impressive reason to you that's right that's right that's right well no no it's not because even that it's your attitude towards it you can introduce some other dwarf who's that a great life and is very positive and it tells you know you know you can interview a particular Dewar for tells you I felt lucky that I didn't have to do football and baseball and do gym class I really felt that I had a better life and things have worked out fine for me and I have a positive attitude towards it even if it's one in a hundred doesn't matter there will be some dwarf out there who subjectively had different attitude towards that objective problem right so why I mean again you know it's weird I feel you're misrepresenting what my position is also I feel like you're claiming that well as you just put it that you said the advantage of your position Israel is recognizing a kind of physical basis for why people have these psychological conditions I mean if someone is a compulsive liar if they're responding to the stress in their life or egoic difficulties or something by one eye anymore to me it is not easy to make that leap to oh well this guy is a liar you know maybe he lies more because he's ugly in some broad sense someone's ugly and he always had to lie to women to seduce them or something this is his experience in life but I don't see a leaf there saying okay he has a genetic condition that causes compulsive lying disorder or a genetic condition that causes depression or genetic condition that causes bulimia or kleptomania or anything else and there's a huge huge leap there and a real misunderstanding of what it is we're talking about when we're talking with subjective and psychological problems now also the other reason I was pushing this i was interested ask you do you think gene therapy is the cure solution do you think the positive next step is going to be genetic because I think you would concede the point we all can see the point you can improve these problems philosophically by changing someone's attitude or outlook the subjective element of it right no of course but I just say so the dwarf who is frustrated say theoretically you have a patient who comes in there were dwarf and they're frustrated because they never got to play football in baseball that physically they've been excluded and in this situation of the lives right and if you can philosophically help them to take a more positive attitude toward their life and their aspirations where you going to improve their life let's say you get them a better job you get them you actually improve their living conditions so obviously this is going to alleviate those problems but there is nothing that corresponds to this dwarfs depression in the way that insulin corresponds to diabetes there is no chemical imbalance to cure there's no genetic just there's nothing we can counteract you see so again this is kind of confirming my hypothesis and my approach on the other side I think you're engaged in in a sense a fallacy of composition because you're looking at it as if the nature of the problem is objective and the solution is objective or as I'm saying no no no no no the problem is subjective the problem is simply put psychological and as such it stands outside of these kinds of questions about physical disorders even when your physical state is the cause of the depression in the case of someone with dwarfism they may be very direct that the dwarf just broke up with his girlfriend and he's depressed cuz he says it's so hard for me to find a girlfriend because I'm a dwarf I have this physical disability and now I feel like I'm going to be alone for ten years and it was never on the football team I was never on the baseball team did this he obviously his physical disability is linked to his depression for someone in a wheelchair it might be someone could have other examples like this but still I I don't know why kids use it is a fallacy I think in the strictest sense of the term to then say this is a genetic you know condition you know the dwarfism is a genetic condition the physical but then the attitude you take to it the psychological suffering the perspective on it the philosophical reaction to it and why you feel sad or depressed or why you develop a behavior like kleptomania and why people don't clip the many as an interesting question but you know why you develop a behavior like bulimia I think there are so many strange leaps of therefore its here in just assuming as you say that there's a biochemical or a physiological basis for the sex that's me that doesn't compute at all yeah sure and then later do you think the same applies with kicking can you make the question more specific so what is the question with the change of perspective well I think that's probably the best tool we've got even if it's very ineffective you know I mean I think I think the pure phobias are probably the hardest for my approach to wrestling if someone just they've always been terrified of spiders they've always had the thing instinctual reaction aspires or it seems like innately they were just born with more fear than other people or someone is just in general a coward someone who says very high levels of fear where there's a difference on the instinctual level innately that's probably the weakest part of energy now I don't think to me to my knowledge I don't think that's the problem with PTSD I don't think these are Amanda we're already just very inclined to be feel afraid or weak before they went to war but so said I understand why you're challenging with PTSD but maybe maybe even the kind of pure phobias like that of just having really exaggerated fear that's even hard that's the hardest type of disorder for me to address where it does seem like it's something inborn in an age and that it seems like it has a biochemical or physiological basis but even so if you have someone who's always been afraid of snakes or someone's kind of always been afraid of everything snakes by any threat they've overreacted to is the best way to cure that by drugging them up by sedating them or giving them drugs that will calm them down you know I have done some reading on this the answer seems to be known as you know there are various forms of therapy including the gradual exposure of people to spiders and control conditions where you build up a cognitive familiar it's it's actually it's similar in terms of what we know about brain chemistry similar to people learning to be parachute jumpers that at first it's terrifying to do a parachute jump but you you you know build yourself up to it you get you get to talk through a theory you first do a small jump that a bigger jump you start to trust the parachute and the backpack you feel confident and then you can do it no problem that there is a similar kind of learning curve and that people with arachnophobia this has been done thousands and thousands of times and scientific conditions that they can gradually learn to not be afraid of spiders or I guess I guess the point is they can remain calm when exposed to the perceived risk of a spider that that's part of what's going on so again even then I think that would be the kind of condition where my approach is the weakest because it doesn't seem like there's a subjective rule it doesn't seem like there's something philosophical the the instinct is so immediate you know the moment they see us right or imagine a spider they're terrified whereas these other conditions there are more stages of cognition and maintainer like if you go a shoplifting to some extent you plan that in advance you know you went to that store you're at an empty bag just II put things in there's you know there's a whole complex there it's not an instant reaction and get bulimia for most believe it becomes a lifestyle so they really do plan their day out they plan their diet they engage in these behaviors but no I don't I don't see any role in any of this for a biochemical imbalance and I can even go so far as to say so look what if shoplifting is linked to vitamin D deficiency look wouldn't that be incredible what if you could cure kleptomania by giving people more vitamin D is that even conceivable to you to me that's that sounds like a joke is stand-up comic going back like you know what if it's vitamin b12 something really was good any of these conditions it is inconceivable to me that they could be improved so my father's condition being a compulsive liar or mythomania so the him lying all the time could that have possibly been improved through diet or exercise now and again and the exceptions from my perspective prove the rule that like a dwarf if he's unhappy because of his sex life and then you actually improve his sex life you know he has a new girlfriend he's happy sure you know or you have a dwarf who wishes he could play sports and miraculously you give him a robot suit and he gets to play football you know this is kind of ridiculous but still something happens in his life that actually cures okay fine there is a physical basis you know there's an objective basis to these things in my case if I could go to a better university and study Plato in a better course or something you know you know these these kind of things exist but when they exist they're irrelevant I mean it really is just like a meaningless distraction from the conversation or anything if we're talking about depression or PTSD or or believe you know these other things I think it's I think it's a genial the reason I push you on it so there's a genuinely interesting case of you know as we say in English the road to Hell being paved with good intentions people have really good intentions in saying that there must be a physiological basis for this so why what is the word must mean there what you're really saying is we can't let ourselves consider the possibility that there is no physiological basis because if we do that would be prejudicial against these people right that would be judging your soul it would be it would be insulting to the people like no if we actually say no it's a choice for you to be a bulimic or it's a choice for you to be depressed you you have a subjective reaction to this and indeed in a really weird sense even something as fast as being terrified of spiders you know this is a behavior you're in some sense indulging in you know that a lot of these things like well and you again I think that's the weakest side I think the fear of spiders because it's so immediate as opposed to look you were feeling unhappy and insecure or blah blah blah and you decided to go out shoplifting for these emotion but you planned it you brought your bag with the hole in the side you carried out this complex behavior no it's it's on you you're responsible for this whether it's bulimia or you know that's that's what you're avoiding by saying there must be say you want to believe there's a physiological or it's sympathetic I think that's why it so in most cases I think I think also well you haven't actually read the interviews that are used to establish a diagnosis of the psychopath or being depressed I think that would also explode your assumption which it's a reasonable assumption just wrong your assumption that people give inconsistent answers to those questions establishes a real condition so you know we're talking about shingles shingles is a very very common health condition and there is a very simple checklist where do you have shingles you know there's a kind of series of red spots that are in outline shaped like a belt and like it's you couldn't just ask the person okay so do you have the spots and you establish whether or not they had this disease and above 99% of people in the United States of America will get this is easy at some point unless it's very very common story easy to diagnose right but if you ask someone in prison like questions like do you ever feel guilt and shame do you ever think about how much your victims suffered after you committed this crime there are some people will give you the self I'm a confident brash answer nah man I don't feel if there were cultural reasons for that and there were you know there were kind of idiosyncratic reasons that and you're gonna leap from this kind of interview data which is interesting you're gonna leap from this interview data to saying like oh this guy has like a biochemical problems brain he's bringing the structure is inherently different like he was born different from other people like it doesn't even occur to you he's bullshitting because he's in a cage and he's been forced to talk to a psychiatrist you know so whether or not it's [ __ ] that this is you deserve yes so yet mostly so with this discussion of arachnophobia how it seems to be rewiring your brain to think you just deal with feeling frightened or with jumping out of an airplane you get used to the idea there seem to be like pathways that develop and of course this is how we learn language growing out there are pets that develop in your brain I was gonna mention one disorder seems to be disordered thinking or thought patterns um with depression it's it's thought patterns you know negative thoughts or you know just feelings of anxiety that you can't seem to stop so like you I understand what you're saying and I want to say that too or I want to believe that too that is just like this is a choice in the case of bulimia it really does seem like there is a physiological basis and that they feel a sense of control when they you know take control of like their their ability to maintain their weight you know like this is a huge part of the interaction bulimia so it's like I don't know how much of it is physiological when you're talking about these like pathways in the brain I don't think it's biochemical and depression but it's okay so physiological I gotta split that into halves there's physiological but clinically irrelevant and there's physiological but clinically relevant in philosophically Roman so there's a condition I will not get the latin name correct of people who were addicted to pulling plucking the hair out of their head so it has a long Latin name that name means blow now that there is a physiological basis to it which is that apparently when you do this when you pull a bit of hair out of your head you your body releases I think it's endorphins like there's a little bit of pain the follicle you know was connected to a nerve ending and you know there's this there's this momentary sense of stress and fear and pain but then followed by some kind of calming release like a parent like the science has been done right so there is some physiological basis to the addiction that people get addicted to the feeling of pulling hair out of them right so that's wheel now is it clinically relevant or is it philosophically relevant because what those people need what they do is get coached through its grip like a life coach as you can imagine the ultimate cure is to get their life and their miserable about something in their life and they're acting out that stress by plucking the hair so you can solve the stress you can change their attitude you can give them something else you know if you want to you can get them addicted to heroin or painkillers instead it's not good move but like so there is a physiological basis but it's almost like an irrelevant distraction you see I feel so good now the other thing you mentioned briefly I was going to mention this before so you know there is still no evidence on a genetic basis for language so this also you'll see why there's this some people are gonna stop posting this point giving any comments what I mean is this in the past people assumed when Koreans learnt English they speak with a Korean accent for genetic reasons you can see how like from a naive perspective that seems like a reasonable assumption right okay so you're Korean but you still speak English with his accents and your kids also speak English for the Korean accent so it seems genetic that there were psychological and language language motivations of ultimately tongue movement issues or something that are based and yet easy leap of influence to make scientifically totally false it's been totally disproved there was a ton of research done in this right and in a sense makes sense like as an influence it seems logical right so you see to me this is this is parallel where you have a kind of complex behavioral problem that it's similar to speaking with an accent right it's something we perform it's something to behave it's ultimately an attention-getting disorder right why do you act depressed the large parts get attention to people you know why do you try to look beautiful and behavin pleaded with there are social elements to this in terms of being perceived in things man it's not it's not it's not even as simple as a phobia or just feeling that rises up in you it's something you're exhibiting and performing for the people and so on right it meets excuse to be a little bit too easy it seems to me facile just with the éxito to link to sorry to leap to the inference this has a physiological basis like the Sheep of the tongue or the mouth that's easy to assume Korean people look different the shape of their mouth looks different so it's easy to think oh they have a Korean accent because of the shape of their mouth completely false all right scientifically it's been disproven it's easy to leap to the assumption this person has PTSD has certain kinds of cowardly behaviors to be blunt this person has certain kinds of depressed behaviors therefore there's a camp biochemical basis physiological basis or genetic basis to me that's that's easy to lead to but precisely because it's so easy as to try a challenging one why can't we measure it you know ultimately even the tongue and stuff you know this they most to deal with x-rays where they x-ray a person's face while they're speaking then you can measure the thickness of the tongue and the relations between the tongue of the roof of the mouth these are tiny measurements but there's something you can measure there and write in just like I said it's kind of a distraction once in a while there is a physiological basis so nauseous it's a form melt their mouth cancer there some that done but that's irrelevant to this discussion right so welcome proves the rule because of right okay that means it is mostly but some sometimes like what I mean is there are so many factors and genetic it's very hard to establish many direct causal link between any and one I felt this was implicit it was implicitly on so many diseases are not genetic you can have a bullet wound in your face that causes you language problems you weren't born that way it's not do you do but you still have a disease just a little problem yeah likewise you can have a disorder that's that's inflicted you can have a disability that's right is physiological yes right that was I think that's obvious yeah thank you even if I can't establish a or like think think of any possible experiments to link right but a depression itself is not is not even itemized alone I mean it's not even specifiable it can't be measured you know can't be falsified okay was there a conclusion of this video I don't know the problem is not your genes the problem is you what am I going to tell you right right okay great thank you good good thank you for reminding me the points for you right so my opening salvo was to say narcissistic personality disorder is a type of behavior it's a type of character it's like a pattern of behaviors a type of person but is it a disease no and thus is there a cure or is there even treatment no is there a you know biochemical disorder or physiological basis no but it's it's a pattern of behavior linked to a type of character and I think we do identify those patterns behavior with good reason I think there's a good reason to identify kleptomania and there's treatments I think there's good reason to identify arachnophobia and there's treatment and I you know I think there is there is a there is probably a basis for even a tenth of in a kind of sympathetic and helpful way something like psychopathic Psychopaths you whatever you say Sehgal psychopathic personality disorder yes I comp with a thank you you know you know in order to help people in as much as you can help people sure I think those things are or justified but you know is it a real thing is it a real disorder as dual treatment that's that's a very different philosophical question yeah I mean you know wouldn't it be reassuring to think you know my father lied all the time there my whole youth my whole adulthood that his constant lying was due to something like vitamin D deficiency you know some kind of disorder or biochemical imbalance right and if I don't believe that if I don't believe he had a physiologically real or genetically real problem that I instead have to accept this is nobody's fault but here's this is nobody's responsibility but it is and for sure in his life by the way it's real easy to see how the coping mechanism developed you know he became an actor or as a young man he already got a girl pregnant you know he will always had a I sex drive and was trying to sleep with other women he figured out at an early age that the best way to get attention from women is to lie to them um you know lying to get ahead was a behavior that that came up early in his life and reinforcement he seems to have coped with crisis and tragedy through lying to himself and others if you learned early on the power of of the lie and he got involved with extreme political ideologies like communism very young and not not moderate communism communist extremism whereas was mentioned at various points he was afraid for his life he thought he was gonna get killed because he was rolling with such extremists that's how he tells the story you know so there were a lot of reasons to lie and obviously the sense of grandiosity give you an example get if I told this on YouTube before but you know he lied about my whole life he lied about the idea that like at one point the CIA were after him and the CIA took him in for questioning and I remember when I asked him later on so I've done a lot of reading about the CIA how they operate and you know I knew that story just the way it was told just didn't really make sense I was like you know Barry if the CIA wanted you they would have got you in those conditions you know it's not like you weren't hard to find you know I mean you weren't living in a cave in the forest or something like this doesn't make sense oh right and also he was paying during that time he was paying child support it's so many kids so if you're the CIA it's real easy to find someone who's sending child support checks or Bank pink wire transfers to child support so you know he wasn't he wasn't so hidden during that time it's like Sam ever-important I really just pushed him on his corner I said look you've told me this story all your life the CIA never really talked to you didn't even ever and you know he admitted the point so in that kind of lie why would a man lie to his own son that he was interviewed by the CIA grandiosity and ego and there are there are reasons there aren't they aren't they aren't rational reasons there are objectively real reasons but there's subjectively real reasons and you can see a kind of life story that that breeds vigor and also what is the cure is the cure to put him on antidepressants or get him drugged up or something you know I would say no I'd say you know ultimately the Cure has to be ethical or moral or philosophical he went through his grave a complete [ __ ] okay we were talking about the cafe weather morality is based on morality being because of luck yeah this idea with psychological problems substance abuse disorders are wrapped up anyway yep ultimately I have a hard time saying to these people that it's your fault because whatever conditions they were raised in or whoever they got involved with led to these substance abuse problems I don't think it's an innate you know many of these personality disorders like your father's I mean I don't know if it's beneficial to say it's your fault or yeah you know you can't change your pattern of Bagger you can change your thoughts on this anyway I just I just wonder how much of it is luck and how much of it is the conditions that you grew up I think maybe that's a good good question to end on though but you asked is it beneficial to say this is your fault before we were asking the question is is it beneficial to say this is not your fault like to say to someone who has depression everyone he's spoken to a psychiatrist or it's not you it's your brain chemistry that's that's the standard excuse and they hand out the SSRI drugs they hand up the meds get you doped up don't worry it's not well the opposite is say it's you it's nobody else but you like ultimately this question of if you're gonna be you know sad or happy it comes anyway if you're gonna be honest or dishonest if you're gonna be a kleptomaniac or a lot but I said it's on you you know so yeah I mean my message especially when you're within the same language and culture group it's very hard to talk to a lotion or Cambodian person this bug when you have a culture gap in a language it gets really hard and I think that is a sense even within the United States it's very hard if you're if you're a black person essays here african-american and you're put in a cage in prison and the prison psychiatrist is an elderly white man even though it's a smaller or cultural gap very very hard for them to be sincere and helpful advice or sympathy or understanding you know across that gap you can imagine how awful would be for a you know a young black man in jail be told by an elderly white psychiatrist well when I was your age you know this is really not gonna fly he's not gonna work it off even with such a small cultural gap and so for me to give advice you know to a Cambodian kid or something to some extent a situation I've been in is but sure it's it's on you any well I always I always actually sympathize with what's the guy who's trying to deal with the dsm-5 dsm sex with trying to put together in a useful sense what muhammad alluded to earlier this idea of consistent responses from an interview you know giving rise to consistent diagnosis i think that's a that's a laudable methodology you know even if it's just for something like kleptomania if you interview a thousand people with kleptomania and ask them why did you start doing this and how did you feel when you think about it I think you can come to useful insights and observations about that those will also be very culturally specific they're all the time of the way um you know the Japanese also brought a psychiatry Japanese psychoanalysis and psychiatry it's not the same as your Western European North American you know people don't do things for the same reasons it's obvious it's not genetic it's cultural you know these kinds of disorders and behaviors and attention you know it's it's very very different culturally even things that I remember reading article once is about you know quote unquote the Oedipus complex yeah there was another one about narcissus a narcissistic personality disorder in Japan being very very different from your opens thing why would it be the same you know yeah but I think that also gives you the clue that this is not biologically real yours if you believed you know what mom was saying earlier if you believe this is either of genetic physiological or biochemical I understand you're not getting a table you were broadly suggesting that then it must be the same for Japanese people and for Europeans you know then it wouldn't be culturally Kuroda but it wouldn't be linked to your life experience in this white zone or there be something measurable or testable and falsifiable you know in addition to those cultural well subject but I think also it's talking about subjective rather than objective I guess for me the most fundamental reason why I wanted to bunk the approach you were giving earlier is that I think it rests on the assumption that problems must be objective to be real and there it's not true like you can have a man I've actually seen this you could have a man with a beautiful wife or a beautiful girlfriend so objectively she's beautiful but he feels she's not good enough for me that's real to him it's it's subjective and you don't you okay if you know look if you get to know the guy you'll know why for whatever reason that's not the kind of woman Easter and it is completely useless to tell him you're wrong objectively she's beautiful you know what I mean and but that's the whole psychological realm you'd be wrong to tell me and probably someone did you'd be wrong to tell me how can you be unhappy with this course at the University of Toronto on the philosophy of Plato objectively it's a good course objectively it's a good university or objectively the other students in the class are happy why can't you be happy you know now I can actually argue the objective case may be objectively it's a bad course but again no subjectively I'm miserable about it that's the problem in University of Victoria the quality of education was too low I'm subjectively yes there's an objective component I mean you know yes ultimately these things pertain to real people but I think there's a it's a kind of scientism it's a pseudo scientific attitude it's taking science outside the boundaries that was properly scientific and saying your problem must be objective or else it's not a real problem and no we need a more sympathetic analytical and constructive attitude towards saying you're unhappy it's for subjective reasons and what is subjective is nevertheless in an important sense real [Music]