People who CAN'T be vegan: the ethics of doing the best you can.
16 March 2018 [link youtube]
Some people have serious health problems that make it impossible to be vegan —or, at least, make it extremely difficult to cope with conflict advice from doctors, and the way their own symptoms react to the foods vegans rely upon. What about them? In this video we hear a lot about Crohn's disease (from someone who didn't believe Durianrider's claims to have cured it with a vegan diet) and, ultimately, about the ethics of just doing the best you can.
Youtube Automatic Transcription
dream great from being vegetarianism
Oh reason you might not recognize right so a lot of people change their names and they change their avatar that change little photo so how would I how would I possibly remember you right but that's great okay so you you you made the transition from vegetarian to because I'm happy to hear that so what was the problem was it b12 or what went wrong for you we're taking about 70% of the veggies out there I can't do not say really really well I don't if you know Crohn's disease Crohn's disease was a funny turning point of my channel because you know durianrider was selling this myth that veganism would cure crohn's disease because but you and I had a conversation where I hardly went to cheat a stream and I kept saying hey you know I watched your videos and you're the reason I'm trying to transition because totally kissing his ass and I'm like you're the reason I'm trying to transition because of all the wonderful benefits veganism his head under Crohn's disease right so you were pretending pretending he really had Crohn's disease we know he didn't right yeah wonderful this and that and then I called them you know if you had friends what type did you have what parts of your body all this other chip medications were you he just literally shut me he also he also never gets the details right about the test he took he makes up stories but the diagnostic test he doesn't even know what the diagnostic tests are that are used to establish that you had promised t so even that part of his story can't possibly be true that's right yeah there's no way and on his diet he was ever vegetarian or vegan I just want to put in one footnote here it is true some people find improvement by having more soluble fiber in their diet with Crohn's disease but some of people but right but some people their Crohn's disease gets worse so I've had several vegans get in touched me to dispute this and very often they send me a link to some s some you know peer-reviewed paper on this and I just point out to them if you actually read the paper you think that's what you're gonna find a certain percentage got better but somewhat worse so Crohn's is a very tricky very inconsistent condition to treat and some treatments were for some people some of the time that's the state we're at with the science there is like there's a difference between an incurable disease and a disease for which there is no known cure but Crohn's disease is definitely a case of a disease for which there is no known cure and in many cases we don't even understand why people with the disorder respond to their diet the way they do okay the long and short of the answer of what causes Crohn's to kick in is that you might be a genetic carrier for the trait but there are also mental issues that will throw you into I'm sure you know there's also there's also the basically the anti immune disorder theory then you can treat it by doing things like using bee stings and what-have-you so and again it sometimes works but you know the science doesn't seem to be all the way done that way other wild covered in like cooking oil and doing the Lambada would help me I would do it it's just if my highest was going between 24 and 27 times a day I've had over 20 surgeries I was the one that was in the hospital for a year because I ended up with having few emergency surgeries for blockages and then I was in the ICU and a coma two months I just want to see I think many people watching this video will be wanting me to state my moral position on this you're not the only person I've talked to who for medical reasons as far as we now understand medical science has been ordered to go back on a meat diet or a vision or a non-vegan that I have known people and you know I do I do really sympathize the position they're in I think that you know in the future I think these are exactly the gray gray areas of medical knowledge that probably will get ironed out like I think it would it's very difficult for me believe that when Crohn's DS when Crohn's disease is fully understood that it would be impossible to be vegan and to have Crohn's disease but that may be a hundred years from now I mean you know the scientific progress this area is not going to be that fast and you know for these people they're there to question so just really briefly cuz I know my audience will want me to take some kind of hard moral stand on this there are people who are making the best decision they can with the available information there are people who are making a decision that is life or death and there are people are making a decision that has terrible impact they're on their quality of life right now which is very very different from someone choosing to eat a hamburger just because they think it tastes good or just because so I really do I really do sympathise and I think it you know it reflects the historical period we're in in terms of understanding crosses okay so you went you you you remained kind of a reduced read you try to be participating as little as possible in factory farms and so on right you know in my mind ethically aren't harming the animals so or I just substitutes for things honey has has been a real godsend for me as tumeric for its healing properties but anymore because I feel like I'm adding to the problem so I just switched over to I'm not even sure just better really briefly I knew someone who couldn't eat any legumes of any kind so no beans no nuts she had the most extreme form of that where she would actually have a heart attack if she ate anything with that and you know for those people even that so that's a really extreme health condition so you could die on the spot if she ate beans I still do think there's a moral obligation on them to figure out how what is doing the best you can because my whole approach to morality is based on doing the best you can for someone with severe Crohn's disease the the answer is going to be very different or some of that kind of really insane allergy but I really commend you because you does sound I mean like eliminating honey and stuff it does sound like you're making a sincere effort to do the best you can I mean back in the day and this is gonna sound ass-backwards were the easiest on my body because the simple sugars were the easiest for my body to digest things like Lunchables and I lived off that stuff for two years and I was losing weight the Lunchables diet the process I [Music] mean we have a burden now where the ileostomy I had last year kind of almost reset my system so that now I am able to increase a lot of the vegetables I wasn't able to eat before but in small amounts now I can't eat them and enjoy them good so again it's like you say what causes this in my case if you like I know what caused my Crohn's my mother my grandmother and my brother and two of my cousins Oh some type of gastritis ulcerative colitis just different GI problems given if still missing it seems clear there's some genetic component to it have you have you looked into or have you experienced it's given that you've already had multiple surgeries have you looked in or have you experienced the the treatments that that approached it as an autoimmune disease such as taking insects eggs the eggs of worms or yeah or or bee sting you know wasp sting therapy and I says any of that been tried with you or no so they were actually treating you with some kind of parasite to try to get the the autoimmune reaction to be directed towards the parasite rather than the body and I take it it didn't work or didn't work very well and again this being before I was vegan I was on the biologic Samara the Remicade Mouse proteins which now that I know that I would never go on them again just because I feel it's kind of disgusting and it makes you susceptible to every cold cough and rash okay so it's more a matter of just being hyper vigilant about watching what I eat you know making sure that I have a lot of imodium what I wanted to tell you was the age of 16 I started to get very bad cystic acne my nose like I was on that antibiotic for six years and then I started to develop antibiotic for that must impact your digestion right flora and bacteria and my probably is what propelled me into having a well as you know there's really nothing I can say except I'm I'm sorry to hear that I mean you know yeah yeah you know I mean you know as I say there is you know it's not the case that Crohn's disease is an incurable disease but right now in 2018 it is there is genuinely no known cure and you know medical doctors are just human beings they're not members of a vast conspiracy you know they're not that's also during writers approach is to vilify the doctors and say that the doctors are secretly trying to keep you down you know the doctors you know they may not know much more than you as a patient you've been a patient for so many years and researching it and reading about it because you're suffering with it you know but the doctors are human beings coping with with very imperfect information and in this case of Crohn's disease the same treatment can have totally different outcomes for two different patients and we don't know why we do not know why so there's this sense of trying all over the place my biggest whatever I I tried to stay out of the ER because I literally did spend all of 2016 I came home I fought for six months to have my second then in September a pound of cantaloupe cantaloupe sized my rate over which they said in the beginning was precancerous then after the surgery when they did more studies on biopsies told me that it was super early stage one so I've been avoiding the ER for a long time now and just self-regulating with the medications that I know worked for me but my husband being the brains of the operation and it's like night and day all of the money that I spent on prednisone and biologics and antipsychotics all these different you know meds that give you 10,000 other symptoms and two tablets a few more today have helped so I'm gonna put up this video I'm not gonna edit that out but I've got to say again you understand how dangerous this can be on the internet cuz some other person you said before you were desperate for any hope you know someone like durianrider suggests this you're you know you're someone who if someone told you to use a magical talisman to cure it you know I'm also afraid you say that and I put this on my channel I'm afraid someone else is gonna quit all their meds and try to write so guys again keep them up as you said if I no no I understand no it's fine it's fine but I just say again this is this is an illness where different treatments have different outcomes for different people and this is not medical advice but she's talking about something that worked for her or something that helped alleviate her symptoms okay look think look I've gotta wrap it up it's been more than 15 minutes thank you for coming on the show no it's okay I mean I do sympathise and it's a terrible struggle that you're in I mean it's terrible struggle nutritionally it's treble struggle of life and death but the thing I want to emphasize here is even for someone with a health condition this extreme where the consequences are so high in terms of your suffering when they're in their d'art this is someone who is still trying to make the effort to do the best that you can
Oh reason you might not recognize right so a lot of people change their names and they change their avatar that change little photo so how would I how would I possibly remember you right but that's great okay so you you you made the transition from vegetarian to because I'm happy to hear that so what was the problem was it b12 or what went wrong for you we're taking about 70% of the veggies out there I can't do not say really really well I don't if you know Crohn's disease Crohn's disease was a funny turning point of my channel because you know durianrider was selling this myth that veganism would cure crohn's disease because but you and I had a conversation where I hardly went to cheat a stream and I kept saying hey you know I watched your videos and you're the reason I'm trying to transition because totally kissing his ass and I'm like you're the reason I'm trying to transition because of all the wonderful benefits veganism his head under Crohn's disease right so you were pretending pretending he really had Crohn's disease we know he didn't right yeah wonderful this and that and then I called them you know if you had friends what type did you have what parts of your body all this other chip medications were you he just literally shut me he also he also never gets the details right about the test he took he makes up stories but the diagnostic test he doesn't even know what the diagnostic tests are that are used to establish that you had promised t so even that part of his story can't possibly be true that's right yeah there's no way and on his diet he was ever vegetarian or vegan I just want to put in one footnote here it is true some people find improvement by having more soluble fiber in their diet with Crohn's disease but some of people but right but some people their Crohn's disease gets worse so I've had several vegans get in touched me to dispute this and very often they send me a link to some s some you know peer-reviewed paper on this and I just point out to them if you actually read the paper you think that's what you're gonna find a certain percentage got better but somewhat worse so Crohn's is a very tricky very inconsistent condition to treat and some treatments were for some people some of the time that's the state we're at with the science there is like there's a difference between an incurable disease and a disease for which there is no known cure but Crohn's disease is definitely a case of a disease for which there is no known cure and in many cases we don't even understand why people with the disorder respond to their diet the way they do okay the long and short of the answer of what causes Crohn's to kick in is that you might be a genetic carrier for the trait but there are also mental issues that will throw you into I'm sure you know there's also there's also the basically the anti immune disorder theory then you can treat it by doing things like using bee stings and what-have-you so and again it sometimes works but you know the science doesn't seem to be all the way done that way other wild covered in like cooking oil and doing the Lambada would help me I would do it it's just if my highest was going between 24 and 27 times a day I've had over 20 surgeries I was the one that was in the hospital for a year because I ended up with having few emergency surgeries for blockages and then I was in the ICU and a coma two months I just want to see I think many people watching this video will be wanting me to state my moral position on this you're not the only person I've talked to who for medical reasons as far as we now understand medical science has been ordered to go back on a meat diet or a vision or a non-vegan that I have known people and you know I do I do really sympathize the position they're in I think that you know in the future I think these are exactly the gray gray areas of medical knowledge that probably will get ironed out like I think it would it's very difficult for me believe that when Crohn's DS when Crohn's disease is fully understood that it would be impossible to be vegan and to have Crohn's disease but that may be a hundred years from now I mean you know the scientific progress this area is not going to be that fast and you know for these people they're there to question so just really briefly cuz I know my audience will want me to take some kind of hard moral stand on this there are people who are making the best decision they can with the available information there are people who are making a decision that is life or death and there are people are making a decision that has terrible impact they're on their quality of life right now which is very very different from someone choosing to eat a hamburger just because they think it tastes good or just because so I really do I really do sympathise and I think it you know it reflects the historical period we're in in terms of understanding crosses okay so you went you you you remained kind of a reduced read you try to be participating as little as possible in factory farms and so on right you know in my mind ethically aren't harming the animals so or I just substitutes for things honey has has been a real godsend for me as tumeric for its healing properties but anymore because I feel like I'm adding to the problem so I just switched over to I'm not even sure just better really briefly I knew someone who couldn't eat any legumes of any kind so no beans no nuts she had the most extreme form of that where she would actually have a heart attack if she ate anything with that and you know for those people even that so that's a really extreme health condition so you could die on the spot if she ate beans I still do think there's a moral obligation on them to figure out how what is doing the best you can because my whole approach to morality is based on doing the best you can for someone with severe Crohn's disease the the answer is going to be very different or some of that kind of really insane allergy but I really commend you because you does sound I mean like eliminating honey and stuff it does sound like you're making a sincere effort to do the best you can I mean back in the day and this is gonna sound ass-backwards were the easiest on my body because the simple sugars were the easiest for my body to digest things like Lunchables and I lived off that stuff for two years and I was losing weight the Lunchables diet the process I [Music] mean we have a burden now where the ileostomy I had last year kind of almost reset my system so that now I am able to increase a lot of the vegetables I wasn't able to eat before but in small amounts now I can't eat them and enjoy them good so again it's like you say what causes this in my case if you like I know what caused my Crohn's my mother my grandmother and my brother and two of my cousins Oh some type of gastritis ulcerative colitis just different GI problems given if still missing it seems clear there's some genetic component to it have you have you looked into or have you experienced it's given that you've already had multiple surgeries have you looked in or have you experienced the the treatments that that approached it as an autoimmune disease such as taking insects eggs the eggs of worms or yeah or or bee sting you know wasp sting therapy and I says any of that been tried with you or no so they were actually treating you with some kind of parasite to try to get the the autoimmune reaction to be directed towards the parasite rather than the body and I take it it didn't work or didn't work very well and again this being before I was vegan I was on the biologic Samara the Remicade Mouse proteins which now that I know that I would never go on them again just because I feel it's kind of disgusting and it makes you susceptible to every cold cough and rash okay so it's more a matter of just being hyper vigilant about watching what I eat you know making sure that I have a lot of imodium what I wanted to tell you was the age of 16 I started to get very bad cystic acne my nose like I was on that antibiotic for six years and then I started to develop antibiotic for that must impact your digestion right flora and bacteria and my probably is what propelled me into having a well as you know there's really nothing I can say except I'm I'm sorry to hear that I mean you know yeah yeah you know I mean you know as I say there is you know it's not the case that Crohn's disease is an incurable disease but right now in 2018 it is there is genuinely no known cure and you know medical doctors are just human beings they're not members of a vast conspiracy you know they're not that's also during writers approach is to vilify the doctors and say that the doctors are secretly trying to keep you down you know the doctors you know they may not know much more than you as a patient you've been a patient for so many years and researching it and reading about it because you're suffering with it you know but the doctors are human beings coping with with very imperfect information and in this case of Crohn's disease the same treatment can have totally different outcomes for two different patients and we don't know why we do not know why so there's this sense of trying all over the place my biggest whatever I I tried to stay out of the ER because I literally did spend all of 2016 I came home I fought for six months to have my second then in September a pound of cantaloupe cantaloupe sized my rate over which they said in the beginning was precancerous then after the surgery when they did more studies on biopsies told me that it was super early stage one so I've been avoiding the ER for a long time now and just self-regulating with the medications that I know worked for me but my husband being the brains of the operation and it's like night and day all of the money that I spent on prednisone and biologics and antipsychotics all these different you know meds that give you 10,000 other symptoms and two tablets a few more today have helped so I'm gonna put up this video I'm not gonna edit that out but I've got to say again you understand how dangerous this can be on the internet cuz some other person you said before you were desperate for any hope you know someone like durianrider suggests this you're you know you're someone who if someone told you to use a magical talisman to cure it you know I'm also afraid you say that and I put this on my channel I'm afraid someone else is gonna quit all their meds and try to write so guys again keep them up as you said if I no no I understand no it's fine it's fine but I just say again this is this is an illness where different treatments have different outcomes for different people and this is not medical advice but she's talking about something that worked for her or something that helped alleviate her symptoms okay look think look I've gotta wrap it up it's been more than 15 minutes thank you for coming on the show no it's okay I mean I do sympathise and it's a terrible struggle that you're in I mean it's terrible struggle nutritionally it's treble struggle of life and death but the thing I want to emphasize here is even for someone with a health condition this extreme where the consequences are so high in terms of your suffering when they're in their d'art this is someone who is still trying to make the effort to do the best that you can