Durianrider: The Court Case. Final Update & Reflections.
24 November 2017 [link youtube]
Youtube Automatic Transcription
a burnoose yen I remember I met aisel in
Chiang Mai was a total coincidence we took selfies with each other I thought it was like a funny thing and either put my selfie in his video and then Holly message means like you gotta fix this I'm gonna destroy him I'm gonna get my knife and tear up your baby bag by the way that that bags worth I think three hundred and fifty Australian dollars so you know smashed the iPad and I'm in New South Wales and he's in Adelaide so I can't really go and just get my [ __ ] back none of my friends want to go to his house so yeah that's that's where I met it's kind of I really believe that these three people vegan cheetah journey writer and eyes'll are all in the same bed together and what I mean by that is people get together and they say hey how can we create drama how can we create drama within a community these are all people I can almost guarantee and I'm me nobody's gonna say anything are common about this because I'm a small Channel but there was never any court case Melissa just said something very interesting to me she said that she has absolutely no interest in my court case a third writer I have interest in how it relates to your life and our lives together yeah we're about to go to Chiang Mai for the court case and you know I care about it and how it relates to your life and the impact that it has just on the vegan movement in general yeah but when I first was watching your channel I avoided any videos that had to do with durianrider because I was just like you know my opinion at without okay yeah without having watched the video as my opinion was that this was stupid drama this was not worth my time not worth you know just wasn't interested you know and with YouTube you can do that if you're not interested in a certain subject on somebody's channel you can just choose not to watch it right um but then like I think it was probably when I joined patreon and I had seen more patreon exclusive content and I saw like how big of an extent this how much this had impacted your life basically so um keepa that but that's really but you got erika so it affected my life yeah even when you were seeing that sentence I thought you were gonna say you saw how much an impacted other people's lives well that's where I assume you're wrong with that that you saw there were other people who really but no no because thank you you know I cared about your channel because of you no okay so I mean another thing that I just asked about you have family members with Crohn's disease yes and for me I guess like chapter 2 of this drama the big turning point in the drama between myself and durianrider was about Crohn's disease it was my saying no during writer did not cure Crohn's did he claimed that he cured Crohn's disease he said a lot of contrary things about that so when you saw that video did that impact how you saw this like in terms of just it being real or meaningful words' yeah yes I knew that it was important I totally changed my opinion from it being frivolous or just you know something - yeah cash in on views or something clickbait titles or whatever I saw it to being something really important that you were making videos in response to durianrider and his crazy righto for Colts his claims about veganism carrying diseases such as Crohn's or just you know mental health disorders and no I knew it was very important than what you see and also like what you know I realized that the gravity of it once I saw how much money had been raised from the from the fundraiser and also watching your video where you're you're in an apartment in Chiangmai and you're talking about but how this is impacted you you know to me that was you know the reason I mean look it's not out of some false sense humility that I said to you oh I didn't think you'd say you got an address because how much it impacted me those how much affect other people is for this reason the Internet's full of crazy people the Internet's full of people just make things up off the top of their head just fiction fiction presented as fact the fact that there's some guy somewhere on the internet saying he cured Crohn's disease that's not a story you know that doesn't matter just that fact yeah what matters is there were thousands and thousands of people really worshiping this guy really taking his opinion more seriously than a medical doctor he was really regarded as a guru oh yeah there's a politically seriously that's that's what makes the Crohn's disease thing that's what makes the insane diet advice matter that it's not just one guy's opinion then it's a guy's opinion who's put himself in a position of being a political leader in the in the vegan movement and the kind of lifestyle coach and I think that's a fair thing to say right and that and that it's really impacting people's lives yeah but as I mentioned like the selectivity of what you choose I had never seen during writers Channel of course I wasn't into like the diet and lifestyle part of veganism like I I really didn't watch much on YouTube you know like it just wasn't a big part of my life right so yeah in that in that sense I really didn't know like what it was about until I but yes you're right once I did watch those videos I knew this would have an impact on the people who follow him because there are people who have changed their lives completely to pursue the life well just another example that though you know like I talked a lot about the about gay rights in parallel to the vegan movement now during the writers views on homosexuality it's not that they're so offensive I mean every day on the internet people say things that are more offensive you know I mean like on Twitter or what if for example you only members the Republican Party see more offensive things about gays in homosexuality every day but again that's example to me it's like well it mattered because it really impacted people and I mean I interviewed one guy by a Skype and it was it was on my youtube channel he was a gay man and he talked about like he really had this like group of like durianrider followers they were you know they thought themselves as vegans but in reality that's what they were and when during writer kind of made his policy position stated on on homosexuality then it really impacted he and it really impacted his circle of friends so again it's like you know the fact that someone's saying this on the Internet isn't what makes it worth addressing or worth criticizing it's the impact it was having on the vegan movement and including on a kind of emotional and psychological level on people you know and of course we could extend this also to something like his making a cute allegations of people accusing people being a pedophile and him saying he was gonna beat people up and so on you know the threats of violence they were real incredible you know like I know yeah I'll just say like that too was very striking to me as opposed to somebody on Twitter or threatening violence you know and there's no real buzz you know what I mean if somebody in Washington DC says they're gonna beat someone up in Alaska or something no I mean these were these were credible threats and this was this was a form of defamation and slander that was real and it and did impact people and in fact did a whole long list of people before it ever impacted me right yeah you were the first person to stand up to it and actually take legal action against Turner right guys right I definitely see how it's important and I can see you know the benefits of you know updating the people who watch this YouTube channel about what has been going on on our way what has been going well right okay but let's let's be all the way real here by the same token during the last two years during might are completely destroyed his power and influence so you know by the same to it before I was saying look what he says about Crohn's disease matters because the impact is people well now what he's saying has no impact on people anymore he's not taken seriously more he has discredited himself and a number of critics like me and including me criticized him in a way that exposed you know how unreliable or untrustworthy was saying was so in this process in the last two years I mean I think it ceased to be interesting you know I think it's easy it's no longer worthwhile I no longer criticize anything as on his channel yeah I don't watch his videos with claims about health or weight loss or even life coaching someone actually sent me an email the other day asking me to criticize a new video during my tour posted about education about university education and again well he's become a joke I mean staying in school what he says but education so no I'm not saying I never did but I mean back then it was taken seriously and there were real examples people need a net people who said they made this decision they dropped out of school because of during writers advise that's right there were people who you okay yeah I met people who changed their life in this way right but I mean today I mean surgery writers basically saying the same message again and no today it's it's not worth criticizing because he's not taken seriously he's been discouraging yeah yeah so I think that's that's the other thing that's that's change is the reality of this the extent to which he's been defeated although not in court not legally it wasn't I mean the court battle was an occasion yet another important occasion for the whole world to see that he's a liar for the whole world to see that he's unreliable and and shouldn't be taken seriously but it was about this time that people actually stopped taking services they should have stopped me back back with the Crohn's disease thing I mean what else do you need to know I mean even even if it was just if you just watch my one video about during Crohn's disease really that's enough there are so many red flags there you know or one thing like what he has to say about schizophrenia or diet and weight loss there are so many things that are so crazy and just so inappropriate so if I'm being honest there's a certain amount of disdain I have for people that in the first place even during writers it's like how could you listen to what he says with and I think it has any credibility like what who are these people but you know these are people that you had interviews with and I was like yeah these are people they're they're real human beings I mean oh what do you were gonna say yeah just impressionable or like just not critical of what they wanted to believe yeah yeah it's bizarre so yeah you know it also was like a level of not having sympathy when I was firstly right learning about this I was just like really come on like who - to two things could my perspective on that so this is this is basically the kind of blame the followers element which is important we've got up we can't just blame the leaders you've gotta blame the forwards yeah but when I look at those followers you know part of it is um they are the future of the vegan movement you watching this video you are so like it or not so someone like Hania Hannya mania she was a hundred like diehard hypnotized freelee and durianrider supporter even after she'd met them for years yeah yeah well I mean as you know even unnatural vegan was right like I natural because she was part of the hi raw you know raw food diet of this crap right she was a dredge yeah it's like high on fruit or something so she stores the URL for high on fruit right yeah yeah so a privileged vegan she went to chiang mai and she stayed in Joe bests house she stayed in the infamous best transformation mansion did everything yeah yeah so a lot of these people a lot of these people were true believers so no I mean there's a sense in which I can look at those people and including obviously someone like Ali Tabrizi Eve's kind of a moderate you know to me but who was who wasn't as a daring writer and freely supporter or someone like vegan gains vegan gains flipped he was a during rider freely support her and then because of my conflict with her he switched sides so you know you can look at those people and say look maybe there's a lot wrong with them but to some extent this is the future of the vegan movement of course my time is better spent no no but of course you see the kind of cynicism I have to put up with this road ship you see you can say mr. president but is my time better spent trying to influence someone like Kenya mania vegan gains and all the you know nameless you know followers of this of this movement of eating the same way I try to influence people who today are supporters of the rotation everywhere is my time that are spent trying to influence them or standing on the street corner with a with a leaflet giving it to someone who eats meat every day who doesn't get it doesn't care it all I think it's pretty obvious what is yeah these people care about the future the vegan movement maybe they're really misguided maybe they're under the spell of these stupid health ideas and you know cure Crohn's disease cure schizophrenia etc but still these are people who have committed not just to the diet to the future the movement to save the planet and save the animals and all this kind of stuff so there's some potential there right yeah yeah it's yeah I just have to resist the temptation to be cynical and like there's no help for these people if they're gonna but it's true that a lot of them were very young too so there's a certain amount a lot a lot of them are old I saw them in Chiang Mai also you can see those people face to face you can see the older people like they may they may not be the ones that are popular on YouTube but there are a lot older people who are into this you know bicycle tell you barf eat so many bananas so you gain 30 pounds weight loss I think I had the same reaction the other day when we were watching Joey carp strong's new video right you're like wow this is the best content I've ever seen on his channel my shoulder shirt or something old content so we saw you know a couple of clips of him from when he was really deep into the marine rider cold Wow yeah but you know it showed it shows that he's able he's capable of being somebody positive for the vegan movement you know I think that an interest is a joint carb strong he has been positively influenced by my channel but not my criticism of durianrider to give an example he was really positively influenced by my video about palm oil you know and deforestation and wood in relation to veganism the ethics of those things so I mean again you know my time is better spent making a video I think that video is actually criticizing the vegan lass about palm oil right was how that started so I'm you know I'm criticizing a misconception another vegan has but this is about the future of the movement you know what I mean so I just mentioned you know that is the kind of influence you can have with a tiny YouTube channel like mine I don't do hair and makeup I don't do beauty I don't do pro notification but yeah we definitely had a kind of catalytic effect or that a very important effect you know in marketing the transition from one era of digital vegan activism to another at least within YouTube at least for these few thousand people and yeah I can say without hesitation those few thousand people matter you know like I care about Hania I care about Jason I care vegan gains and stuff they're not my close personal friends but like they're they're human beings who are vegan and you have the potential to really do something positive for the future movement and a lot of them are trying and again Joey carp strums probably the most extreme transformation making videos showing off eating 20 bananas a day you know that means like to what he's doing now doing real political activism and giving you know interviews on the news and so on the other thing that really pops nevermind apart from like hey don't don't demonize and dismiss these people just because they used to fall turn around the other thing is that's really kind of parallel to part of my experience that Buddhist studies but as Buddhism as a religion a lot of the people including the professor's the PhDs they really were former cult members and they were put it this way they didn't think they were members of a cult at the time right there was this one really really infamous group in the United Kingdom but with links back and forth to Tibet and the leader was a he was specifically a gay sexual predator and what he was into was sex with younger heterosexual men so that is not that uncommon if obviously if that's your kick if you're a gay man and you want to have sex with straight men you got problems in your life right as opposed to consensual sex between you know gay men and a little boy and you know not it wasn't just him once he put together his own cult it seemed like all the elite leaders in this pseudo Buddhist cult were other gay men into this kind of stuff and the sexual abuse in women and you know I remember writing to especially one professor guy with the PhD he was a professor in the UK now I said look man you know I was just looking at some of the stuff on this cult I was researching the cult you know and I see your name come up you know this is a literally this is how you got the Buddhism you know and he never he never replied he no I could name names I'm not breaking any last names but I would just say in that same way the whole field of like respectable Buddhist studies whether it's like academic level of PhDs or the respectable religion for a lot a lot of people there's you know there's something really important in closeted this link which is how did you first get into this how did you end for a lot of people now it's gonna haunt them in the future of the movement where whatever they will be like Joey carbs strong or what-have-you maybe they go on to more respectable and more political forms of engagement with veganism the future may be they go on to join PCRM or become a real dietitian stop giving fake diet advice targeting whatever it is they do going to become a personal trainer people are gonna take it in different directions but yeah how did you first how did you first open the door how did you first learn you'd be interested in what's behind this door for a lot of them it's gonna be this this dark period of their life they look back on and they didn't think it was dark at the time right you know yeah yeah all right so look legit I mean I sympathize do the star of this video said look you know you feel you have no interest in this I think I mean someone made a witty remark to minions said you know um durianrider is just like a crazy guy standing in the street screaming at traffic and this is this from memory and I said back but I have seen yeah but look you know this is like my point about the Crohn's disease claim or the schizophrenia claim if nobody else is taking him seriously there's no point criticizing it if his what he has to say about education and university well one now that he's a joke there's no point member it has become boring precisely because the consequence of the stakes there I said back as I recall from memory no during writer is not like a madman screaming at traffic he's a guy on YouTube who's telling you that if you buy his ebook now you can make money the same way he did standing in the street screaming at traffic I mean that there's this kind of pyramid scheme like element to it where it's both that he was making money from the e-books and videos and everything else and then he was promising his audience you also could make money if you do the same thing and that was that was huge and a lot of people have admitted to be normally low-key that yeah they did start that you know they actually did believe that they believed the financial element of the hook that he used to draw people in including some of the women that have made allegations against him ah Touche yes indeed yeah so the the profit motive was there even for some of the women who ended up sleeping with him and for the women who ended up later regretting that they slept with him yes um but look for this video but the only news I have I wanted to make it video tonight so I wouldn't have to make another video in the future yeah is that you know in terms of what I hear from my lawyer and the process of the court case which is real only lunatics believe it's not real we've shared legal documents have shared the receipts looking of the actual invoice for the showing the lawyer was paid you know I've shared videotape showing me at the courthouse and the other point just really briefly at the same moment as the laptop gate at the same moment when all these people in Shanghai who were in Shanghai with durianrider were scandalized by the fact that he had this conflict with his ex-girlfriend partly about a laptop and going to the police and he was alleging she stole his laptop like tires I will never know the whole story partly because I just don't have the interest I mean I'm I'm within six degrees of separation but I think if I wanted to I could know the whole story but I don't you know anyway there was this conflict at that time and I'd already reached out to some people including angry vegan I said then look if you want to know what's going on with the court case if you want to confirm for yourself with your own eyes what's going to cookies go to the courthouse you're not in Los Angeles you're not in New York ride your bike up to the courthouse now remember everybody I told this to I said look but you can't wear bike gear so every time I said look remember like you can't wear your helmet you have to wear like a respectable suit you know otherwise it's Thailand you know a little bit conservative that way try to wear a black suit you know black shirt what-have-you but if you want you can go to the courthouse you can see the writing on the wall you can attend the next hearing there's ongoing court case and a bunch of them did so that was the other thing invisibly was we went from a period of time where there was this all this BS on the internet ignoring all the evidence when those and surrenders to the evidence claiming that the court case is fake and then we had this turning point which wasn't too much commented on there weren't people really making videos about it where that all disappeared and more everyone I think including durianrider well right because when durianrider had his fake fistfight with Sam they had this physically what he's screaming at Sam about is he's screaming at Sam you want me to go to prison and this kind of stuff because like you support the court case so even that even built into that scenario is implicitly that he knows the court case is real and now he's scared that it's real so the court case in all this nonsense all the lies told on all sides from during writer and the drama mongers when have you it was another occasion for during writer to lie and discredit himself and behave just behave in an aberrant way that would make people you know disrespect him and he did that and a whole lot of people woke up now those people are gonna have to ask themselves I see videos of them asking themselves they're gonna have to ask themselves why didn't I wake up before like why didn't I wake up back when it was just the thing about Crohn's disease or they're gonna have to ask themselves that for the rest of their lives why didn't I wake up why didn't you wake up back when he was accusing someone else did being a pedophile and it wasn't me why didn't you wake up when he was threatening to beat up there's a there are websites that have tried to collect all the people he's made all the examples of people he's made threats of violence against you know and I mean where he's threatened to go over to his house and beat them up and this kind of stuff so there are there are websites Anthony colpo is one where they putting together these kinds of example and it's a long list why didn't I wake up back when it was those threats of violence when it was that defamation when it was this pseudoscience why didn't wake up some but they didn't and for a lot of people it was about that time the laptop and ex-girlfriend situation and simultaneous with I'm not saying everyone in Chiangmai went to the courthouse but everybody knew someone who'd gone to the courthouse whereas like no dude this is not just a YouTube thing this is like the documents the legal documents are not fake how could they possibly be it's ridiculous they've been to the courthouse they've seen for themselves that that this is a real ongoing so that's I've said in earlier videos I mean the happy ending is just that yeah we you know a bunch of people but you know including myself including my donors you know we really created the circumstances for durianrider to self-destruct and to some extent you know we destroyed him you know his credibility as a leader in the vegan movement is over and that was my concern his ability to her others the way he tried to hurt me to deter people is over so we've won and I would say even his ability to influence people telling them to drop out of university or telling them to quit their medication which I've read examples of you know that's over and yeah I was an important part of that and you people and the donors and so important part of that and as they say the other mystery is just that hey people woke up you know or we're asleep before however if you asked me do I have high expectations of this court case and shame I that the justice system is ever going to deliver justice my answer is no this is a very long and convoluted paperwork process that as imagine has involved hearings has involved a lot of legal activity but I think it I think it's it's at a dead end I think without durianrider ever employing a defense lawyer I think on the legal side of the equation durianrider wins and in every other important sense including the question of the destiny in future the vegan movement we won he lost and for him it is game over just because Iowa Mazar had some papers in his hand and he was standing outside the courthouse or he walked inside the courthouse you know any anybody can con anybody like I could do things every day and show you things that look real and they're not you know they're not they're not real you know I yeah like I this is a bad analogy but I could take a picture of my urine in the toilet bowl and then do another jump cut and have me drinking something out of a jar that looks exactly the same color and you people would believe it right where some of you would write just for shock value no they don't do that but they make stuff up so people keep coming back for more you become more and more gullible you know klipsch and and and videos that manipulate and play tricks on your brain with music behind it it's very it's very interesting and very creative and I actually got suckered into it somewhat you know and it's a mindfuck it really is a mindfuck but once you're older and you start to realize like wait a minute how does this person have this person's contact number or information how does this other person say okay well someone's old contacted me by phone and and we agreed to wait a minute I thought you guys are against one another how how do you have each other's contact information you know and even I've come you know eyes a lot contacted during Ryder I told him that you know I we could have a fight and about and he declined and he didn't get back it's it's all smoke and mirrors man and the whole thing with this aisel guy like think about it somebody that old with with now he's doing videos with somebody that's half his age and all the videos don't if you find it a little creepy that they're actually inside the apartment like there's no videos of him going anywhere or walking down the street or even he eaten anything it's vegan what have you seen this man eat I was almost what have you seen him he he talks a lot of stuff about veganism right listen you don't know what this person's diet is there is no inclination that he's vegan there's no inclination that he's a meat-eater there's no increment it's just talk it's just talk you don't know these people you're only going by what they tell you you don't know me you don't know me but I'm saying as an older person I can look and I can analyze and I can place judgment on people and I'm usually a hundred percent right I've honest yen
Chiang Mai was a total coincidence we took selfies with each other I thought it was like a funny thing and either put my selfie in his video and then Holly message means like you gotta fix this I'm gonna destroy him I'm gonna get my knife and tear up your baby bag by the way that that bags worth I think three hundred and fifty Australian dollars so you know smashed the iPad and I'm in New South Wales and he's in Adelaide so I can't really go and just get my [ __ ] back none of my friends want to go to his house so yeah that's that's where I met it's kind of I really believe that these three people vegan cheetah journey writer and eyes'll are all in the same bed together and what I mean by that is people get together and they say hey how can we create drama how can we create drama within a community these are all people I can almost guarantee and I'm me nobody's gonna say anything are common about this because I'm a small Channel but there was never any court case Melissa just said something very interesting to me she said that she has absolutely no interest in my court case a third writer I have interest in how it relates to your life and our lives together yeah we're about to go to Chiang Mai for the court case and you know I care about it and how it relates to your life and the impact that it has just on the vegan movement in general yeah but when I first was watching your channel I avoided any videos that had to do with durianrider because I was just like you know my opinion at without okay yeah without having watched the video as my opinion was that this was stupid drama this was not worth my time not worth you know just wasn't interested you know and with YouTube you can do that if you're not interested in a certain subject on somebody's channel you can just choose not to watch it right um but then like I think it was probably when I joined patreon and I had seen more patreon exclusive content and I saw like how big of an extent this how much this had impacted your life basically so um keepa that but that's really but you got erika so it affected my life yeah even when you were seeing that sentence I thought you were gonna say you saw how much an impacted other people's lives well that's where I assume you're wrong with that that you saw there were other people who really but no no because thank you you know I cared about your channel because of you no okay so I mean another thing that I just asked about you have family members with Crohn's disease yes and for me I guess like chapter 2 of this drama the big turning point in the drama between myself and durianrider was about Crohn's disease it was my saying no during writer did not cure Crohn's did he claimed that he cured Crohn's disease he said a lot of contrary things about that so when you saw that video did that impact how you saw this like in terms of just it being real or meaningful words' yeah yes I knew that it was important I totally changed my opinion from it being frivolous or just you know something - yeah cash in on views or something clickbait titles or whatever I saw it to being something really important that you were making videos in response to durianrider and his crazy righto for Colts his claims about veganism carrying diseases such as Crohn's or just you know mental health disorders and no I knew it was very important than what you see and also like what you know I realized that the gravity of it once I saw how much money had been raised from the from the fundraiser and also watching your video where you're you're in an apartment in Chiangmai and you're talking about but how this is impacted you you know to me that was you know the reason I mean look it's not out of some false sense humility that I said to you oh I didn't think you'd say you got an address because how much it impacted me those how much affect other people is for this reason the Internet's full of crazy people the Internet's full of people just make things up off the top of their head just fiction fiction presented as fact the fact that there's some guy somewhere on the internet saying he cured Crohn's disease that's not a story you know that doesn't matter just that fact yeah what matters is there were thousands and thousands of people really worshiping this guy really taking his opinion more seriously than a medical doctor he was really regarded as a guru oh yeah there's a politically seriously that's that's what makes the Crohn's disease thing that's what makes the insane diet advice matter that it's not just one guy's opinion then it's a guy's opinion who's put himself in a position of being a political leader in the in the vegan movement and the kind of lifestyle coach and I think that's a fair thing to say right and that and that it's really impacting people's lives yeah but as I mentioned like the selectivity of what you choose I had never seen during writers Channel of course I wasn't into like the diet and lifestyle part of veganism like I I really didn't watch much on YouTube you know like it just wasn't a big part of my life right so yeah in that in that sense I really didn't know like what it was about until I but yes you're right once I did watch those videos I knew this would have an impact on the people who follow him because there are people who have changed their lives completely to pursue the life well just another example that though you know like I talked a lot about the about gay rights in parallel to the vegan movement now during the writers views on homosexuality it's not that they're so offensive I mean every day on the internet people say things that are more offensive you know I mean like on Twitter or what if for example you only members the Republican Party see more offensive things about gays in homosexuality every day but again that's example to me it's like well it mattered because it really impacted people and I mean I interviewed one guy by a Skype and it was it was on my youtube channel he was a gay man and he talked about like he really had this like group of like durianrider followers they were you know they thought themselves as vegans but in reality that's what they were and when during writer kind of made his policy position stated on on homosexuality then it really impacted he and it really impacted his circle of friends so again it's like you know the fact that someone's saying this on the Internet isn't what makes it worth addressing or worth criticizing it's the impact it was having on the vegan movement and including on a kind of emotional and psychological level on people you know and of course we could extend this also to something like his making a cute allegations of people accusing people being a pedophile and him saying he was gonna beat people up and so on you know the threats of violence they were real incredible you know like I know yeah I'll just say like that too was very striking to me as opposed to somebody on Twitter or threatening violence you know and there's no real buzz you know what I mean if somebody in Washington DC says they're gonna beat someone up in Alaska or something no I mean these were these were credible threats and this was this was a form of defamation and slander that was real and it and did impact people and in fact did a whole long list of people before it ever impacted me right yeah you were the first person to stand up to it and actually take legal action against Turner right guys right I definitely see how it's important and I can see you know the benefits of you know updating the people who watch this YouTube channel about what has been going on on our way what has been going well right okay but let's let's be all the way real here by the same token during the last two years during might are completely destroyed his power and influence so you know by the same to it before I was saying look what he says about Crohn's disease matters because the impact is people well now what he's saying has no impact on people anymore he's not taken seriously more he has discredited himself and a number of critics like me and including me criticized him in a way that exposed you know how unreliable or untrustworthy was saying was so in this process in the last two years I mean I think it ceased to be interesting you know I think it's easy it's no longer worthwhile I no longer criticize anything as on his channel yeah I don't watch his videos with claims about health or weight loss or even life coaching someone actually sent me an email the other day asking me to criticize a new video during my tour posted about education about university education and again well he's become a joke I mean staying in school what he says but education so no I'm not saying I never did but I mean back then it was taken seriously and there were real examples people need a net people who said they made this decision they dropped out of school because of during writers advise that's right there were people who you okay yeah I met people who changed their life in this way right but I mean today I mean surgery writers basically saying the same message again and no today it's it's not worth criticizing because he's not taken seriously he's been discouraging yeah yeah so I think that's that's the other thing that's that's change is the reality of this the extent to which he's been defeated although not in court not legally it wasn't I mean the court battle was an occasion yet another important occasion for the whole world to see that he's a liar for the whole world to see that he's unreliable and and shouldn't be taken seriously but it was about this time that people actually stopped taking services they should have stopped me back back with the Crohn's disease thing I mean what else do you need to know I mean even even if it was just if you just watch my one video about during Crohn's disease really that's enough there are so many red flags there you know or one thing like what he has to say about schizophrenia or diet and weight loss there are so many things that are so crazy and just so inappropriate so if I'm being honest there's a certain amount of disdain I have for people that in the first place even during writers it's like how could you listen to what he says with and I think it has any credibility like what who are these people but you know these are people that you had interviews with and I was like yeah these are people they're they're real human beings I mean oh what do you were gonna say yeah just impressionable or like just not critical of what they wanted to believe yeah yeah it's bizarre so yeah you know it also was like a level of not having sympathy when I was firstly right learning about this I was just like really come on like who - to two things could my perspective on that so this is this is basically the kind of blame the followers element which is important we've got up we can't just blame the leaders you've gotta blame the forwards yeah but when I look at those followers you know part of it is um they are the future of the vegan movement you watching this video you are so like it or not so someone like Hania Hannya mania she was a hundred like diehard hypnotized freelee and durianrider supporter even after she'd met them for years yeah yeah well I mean as you know even unnatural vegan was right like I natural because she was part of the hi raw you know raw food diet of this crap right she was a dredge yeah it's like high on fruit or something so she stores the URL for high on fruit right yeah yeah so a privileged vegan she went to chiang mai and she stayed in Joe bests house she stayed in the infamous best transformation mansion did everything yeah yeah so a lot of these people a lot of these people were true believers so no I mean there's a sense in which I can look at those people and including obviously someone like Ali Tabrizi Eve's kind of a moderate you know to me but who was who wasn't as a daring writer and freely supporter or someone like vegan gains vegan gains flipped he was a during rider freely support her and then because of my conflict with her he switched sides so you know you can look at those people and say look maybe there's a lot wrong with them but to some extent this is the future of the vegan movement of course my time is better spent no no but of course you see the kind of cynicism I have to put up with this road ship you see you can say mr. president but is my time better spent trying to influence someone like Kenya mania vegan gains and all the you know nameless you know followers of this of this movement of eating the same way I try to influence people who today are supporters of the rotation everywhere is my time that are spent trying to influence them or standing on the street corner with a with a leaflet giving it to someone who eats meat every day who doesn't get it doesn't care it all I think it's pretty obvious what is yeah these people care about the future the vegan movement maybe they're really misguided maybe they're under the spell of these stupid health ideas and you know cure Crohn's disease cure schizophrenia etc but still these are people who have committed not just to the diet to the future the movement to save the planet and save the animals and all this kind of stuff so there's some potential there right yeah yeah it's yeah I just have to resist the temptation to be cynical and like there's no help for these people if they're gonna but it's true that a lot of them were very young too so there's a certain amount a lot a lot of them are old I saw them in Chiang Mai also you can see those people face to face you can see the older people like they may they may not be the ones that are popular on YouTube but there are a lot older people who are into this you know bicycle tell you barf eat so many bananas so you gain 30 pounds weight loss I think I had the same reaction the other day when we were watching Joey carp strong's new video right you're like wow this is the best content I've ever seen on his channel my shoulder shirt or something old content so we saw you know a couple of clips of him from when he was really deep into the marine rider cold Wow yeah but you know it showed it shows that he's able he's capable of being somebody positive for the vegan movement you know I think that an interest is a joint carb strong he has been positively influenced by my channel but not my criticism of durianrider to give an example he was really positively influenced by my video about palm oil you know and deforestation and wood in relation to veganism the ethics of those things so I mean again you know my time is better spent making a video I think that video is actually criticizing the vegan lass about palm oil right was how that started so I'm you know I'm criticizing a misconception another vegan has but this is about the future of the movement you know what I mean so I just mentioned you know that is the kind of influence you can have with a tiny YouTube channel like mine I don't do hair and makeup I don't do beauty I don't do pro notification but yeah we definitely had a kind of catalytic effect or that a very important effect you know in marketing the transition from one era of digital vegan activism to another at least within YouTube at least for these few thousand people and yeah I can say without hesitation those few thousand people matter you know like I care about Hania I care about Jason I care vegan gains and stuff they're not my close personal friends but like they're they're human beings who are vegan and you have the potential to really do something positive for the future movement and a lot of them are trying and again Joey carp strums probably the most extreme transformation making videos showing off eating 20 bananas a day you know that means like to what he's doing now doing real political activism and giving you know interviews on the news and so on the other thing that really pops nevermind apart from like hey don't don't demonize and dismiss these people just because they used to fall turn around the other thing is that's really kind of parallel to part of my experience that Buddhist studies but as Buddhism as a religion a lot of the people including the professor's the PhDs they really were former cult members and they were put it this way they didn't think they were members of a cult at the time right there was this one really really infamous group in the United Kingdom but with links back and forth to Tibet and the leader was a he was specifically a gay sexual predator and what he was into was sex with younger heterosexual men so that is not that uncommon if obviously if that's your kick if you're a gay man and you want to have sex with straight men you got problems in your life right as opposed to consensual sex between you know gay men and a little boy and you know not it wasn't just him once he put together his own cult it seemed like all the elite leaders in this pseudo Buddhist cult were other gay men into this kind of stuff and the sexual abuse in women and you know I remember writing to especially one professor guy with the PhD he was a professor in the UK now I said look man you know I was just looking at some of the stuff on this cult I was researching the cult you know and I see your name come up you know this is a literally this is how you got the Buddhism you know and he never he never replied he no I could name names I'm not breaking any last names but I would just say in that same way the whole field of like respectable Buddhist studies whether it's like academic level of PhDs or the respectable religion for a lot a lot of people there's you know there's something really important in closeted this link which is how did you first get into this how did you end for a lot of people now it's gonna haunt them in the future of the movement where whatever they will be like Joey carbs strong or what-have-you maybe they go on to more respectable and more political forms of engagement with veganism the future may be they go on to join PCRM or become a real dietitian stop giving fake diet advice targeting whatever it is they do going to become a personal trainer people are gonna take it in different directions but yeah how did you first how did you first open the door how did you first learn you'd be interested in what's behind this door for a lot of them it's gonna be this this dark period of their life they look back on and they didn't think it was dark at the time right you know yeah yeah all right so look legit I mean I sympathize do the star of this video said look you know you feel you have no interest in this I think I mean someone made a witty remark to minions said you know um durianrider is just like a crazy guy standing in the street screaming at traffic and this is this from memory and I said back but I have seen yeah but look you know this is like my point about the Crohn's disease claim or the schizophrenia claim if nobody else is taking him seriously there's no point criticizing it if his what he has to say about education and university well one now that he's a joke there's no point member it has become boring precisely because the consequence of the stakes there I said back as I recall from memory no during writer is not like a madman screaming at traffic he's a guy on YouTube who's telling you that if you buy his ebook now you can make money the same way he did standing in the street screaming at traffic I mean that there's this kind of pyramid scheme like element to it where it's both that he was making money from the e-books and videos and everything else and then he was promising his audience you also could make money if you do the same thing and that was that was huge and a lot of people have admitted to be normally low-key that yeah they did start that you know they actually did believe that they believed the financial element of the hook that he used to draw people in including some of the women that have made allegations against him ah Touche yes indeed yeah so the the profit motive was there even for some of the women who ended up sleeping with him and for the women who ended up later regretting that they slept with him yes um but look for this video but the only news I have I wanted to make it video tonight so I wouldn't have to make another video in the future yeah is that you know in terms of what I hear from my lawyer and the process of the court case which is real only lunatics believe it's not real we've shared legal documents have shared the receipts looking of the actual invoice for the showing the lawyer was paid you know I've shared videotape showing me at the courthouse and the other point just really briefly at the same moment as the laptop gate at the same moment when all these people in Shanghai who were in Shanghai with durianrider were scandalized by the fact that he had this conflict with his ex-girlfriend partly about a laptop and going to the police and he was alleging she stole his laptop like tires I will never know the whole story partly because I just don't have the interest I mean I'm I'm within six degrees of separation but I think if I wanted to I could know the whole story but I don't you know anyway there was this conflict at that time and I'd already reached out to some people including angry vegan I said then look if you want to know what's going on with the court case if you want to confirm for yourself with your own eyes what's going to cookies go to the courthouse you're not in Los Angeles you're not in New York ride your bike up to the courthouse now remember everybody I told this to I said look but you can't wear bike gear so every time I said look remember like you can't wear your helmet you have to wear like a respectable suit you know otherwise it's Thailand you know a little bit conservative that way try to wear a black suit you know black shirt what-have-you but if you want you can go to the courthouse you can see the writing on the wall you can attend the next hearing there's ongoing court case and a bunch of them did so that was the other thing invisibly was we went from a period of time where there was this all this BS on the internet ignoring all the evidence when those and surrenders to the evidence claiming that the court case is fake and then we had this turning point which wasn't too much commented on there weren't people really making videos about it where that all disappeared and more everyone I think including durianrider well right because when durianrider had his fake fistfight with Sam they had this physically what he's screaming at Sam about is he's screaming at Sam you want me to go to prison and this kind of stuff because like you support the court case so even that even built into that scenario is implicitly that he knows the court case is real and now he's scared that it's real so the court case in all this nonsense all the lies told on all sides from during writer and the drama mongers when have you it was another occasion for during writer to lie and discredit himself and behave just behave in an aberrant way that would make people you know disrespect him and he did that and a whole lot of people woke up now those people are gonna have to ask themselves I see videos of them asking themselves they're gonna have to ask themselves why didn't I wake up before like why didn't I wake up back when it was just the thing about Crohn's disease or they're gonna have to ask themselves that for the rest of their lives why didn't I wake up why didn't you wake up back when he was accusing someone else did being a pedophile and it wasn't me why didn't you wake up when he was threatening to beat up there's a there are websites that have tried to collect all the people he's made all the examples of people he's made threats of violence against you know and I mean where he's threatened to go over to his house and beat them up and this kind of stuff so there are there are websites Anthony colpo is one where they putting together these kinds of example and it's a long list why didn't I wake up back when it was those threats of violence when it was that defamation when it was this pseudoscience why didn't wake up some but they didn't and for a lot of people it was about that time the laptop and ex-girlfriend situation and simultaneous with I'm not saying everyone in Chiangmai went to the courthouse but everybody knew someone who'd gone to the courthouse whereas like no dude this is not just a YouTube thing this is like the documents the legal documents are not fake how could they possibly be it's ridiculous they've been to the courthouse they've seen for themselves that that this is a real ongoing so that's I've said in earlier videos I mean the happy ending is just that yeah we you know a bunch of people but you know including myself including my donors you know we really created the circumstances for durianrider to self-destruct and to some extent you know we destroyed him you know his credibility as a leader in the vegan movement is over and that was my concern his ability to her others the way he tried to hurt me to deter people is over so we've won and I would say even his ability to influence people telling them to drop out of university or telling them to quit their medication which I've read examples of you know that's over and yeah I was an important part of that and you people and the donors and so important part of that and as they say the other mystery is just that hey people woke up you know or we're asleep before however if you asked me do I have high expectations of this court case and shame I that the justice system is ever going to deliver justice my answer is no this is a very long and convoluted paperwork process that as imagine has involved hearings has involved a lot of legal activity but I think it I think it's it's at a dead end I think without durianrider ever employing a defense lawyer I think on the legal side of the equation durianrider wins and in every other important sense including the question of the destiny in future the vegan movement we won he lost and for him it is game over just because Iowa Mazar had some papers in his hand and he was standing outside the courthouse or he walked inside the courthouse you know any anybody can con anybody like I could do things every day and show you things that look real and they're not you know they're not they're not real you know I yeah like I this is a bad analogy but I could take a picture of my urine in the toilet bowl and then do another jump cut and have me drinking something out of a jar that looks exactly the same color and you people would believe it right where some of you would write just for shock value no they don't do that but they make stuff up so people keep coming back for more you become more and more gullible you know klipsch and and and videos that manipulate and play tricks on your brain with music behind it it's very it's very interesting and very creative and I actually got suckered into it somewhat you know and it's a mindfuck it really is a mindfuck but once you're older and you start to realize like wait a minute how does this person have this person's contact number or information how does this other person say okay well someone's old contacted me by phone and and we agreed to wait a minute I thought you guys are against one another how how do you have each other's contact information you know and even I've come you know eyes a lot contacted during Ryder I told him that you know I we could have a fight and about and he declined and he didn't get back it's it's all smoke and mirrors man and the whole thing with this aisel guy like think about it somebody that old with with now he's doing videos with somebody that's half his age and all the videos don't if you find it a little creepy that they're actually inside the apartment like there's no videos of him going anywhere or walking down the street or even he eaten anything it's vegan what have you seen this man eat I was almost what have you seen him he he talks a lot of stuff about veganism right listen you don't know what this person's diet is there is no inclination that he's vegan there's no inclination that he's a meat-eater there's no increment it's just talk it's just talk you don't know these people you're only going by what they tell you you don't know me you don't know me but I'm saying as an older person I can look and I can analyze and I can place judgment on people and I'm usually a hundred percent right I've honest yen