Vegan Politics: Are "Nation Rising" Sheep in Wolves' Clothing?
26 October 2017 [link youtube]
No, that was not a typo: with their promises of "revolution", I am indeed asking if they're sheep in wolves' clothing (not vice-versa, wolves masquerading as sheep).
Youtube Automatic Transcription
they use the name nation rising and they
say what they're doing is not a protest it's it's a revolution all right we'll see if they live looks suspiciously like a protest this is this is really paradoxical so why would you say it's not a protest it's a revolution why wouldn't you say look guys this isn't a revolutionary movement this is a totally reasonable request to amend the tax code to amend how taxation works in Canada and here's how we're going to accomplish it here's the plan we're gonna do it the same way PCRM does the same way any other lobbying for for government changes it makes no sense instead what they want to do is front on some kind of left-wing radical aesthetic maybe they're just trying to be obtuse about it and like that they're not a vegan movement appeal appeal to people who aren't vegan dole oh I see what you mean I see what you mean right right so sorry so yeah so they they want to appeal to people who are outside of the vegan fold or something okay yeah maybe that's maybe but aren't really vegan I don't know though those people it's a very small number of people that those people would you describe them as a nation would you describe I don't already want to describe vegans as a nation Lee that's what I thought the point was like there's like a nation of vegans that's ready to rise up but if you're talking about this larger category of soft core slightly uncomfortable with government subsidies for the meat industry not really vegan maybe not even reduce it Aryan are they a nation do they comprise a nation that's gonna rise up and change the history of Canada I know I don't see it you say it's not just a protest you say it's a revolution okay so you can occupy a building are you gonna burn it down what you say it's not a protest so what am I being invited to a revolution are you gonna shoot people to the head that's what revolutionaries do are you gonna burn down buildings are you gonna barricade a street these are legit questions and the fact that you are DXE that as soon as I write to you they'll reply I get is from DXE DXE endorses various forms of quote violence against property unquote which leads to violence against human beings as one of leads to murky claims and that their website doesn't really have that much okay you're right it doesn't have that much information it just we pretty much just read at all yeah yeah I think maybe they are under the impression that it could make their movement look edgy and people to it but to me I think that kind of signals that it's maybe unorganized or shoddy like they don't really know what what people are being invited to do you know I wrote to them seeking more information that's very clear in my first message I wrote to them seeking more information and they gave me none that's a red flag and the only other indication I have is that the name of the person who replied to me is the direct action everywhere stooge so I don't have any crazy conspiracy theory about this but I would tend to assume that this is a coalition and a front organization put together so the direct action everywhere can recruit more people and so that direct action everywhere could have a kind of roundtable that these other groups would sit at despite the odious reputation that the right action everywhere has earned in the last couple of years baddest yen [Music] [Music] uh-uh no yen you know what's winter in the tropics because my best girl actually has a jacket on and it is possible for us to record this video or read a book or do anything without an electric fan directly blowing on us at all times you get get a little bit of separation from the the electric fans in your life I think we're living in a really interesting transitional time in politics so we did talk about this a little bit while walking around town before making the video but like back in the 1960s or the 1930s if you were getting involved in politics you would really depend on pamphlets and rumor word-of-mouth to find out who were your political leaders especially at the local level what did they really represent what was their real agenda and look this word agenda has a variety of meanings you know all of us have more than one agenda I said openly in writing this letter to these these guys these vegans at nation rising look I got more than one agenda I'm interested in First Nations and the Cree in the edge away and the Mohawks I've got more than one political interest I've got more than one iron in the fire doesn't mean evil you know what is the difference we having an agenda at having an objective I'm you know I have more than one political objective and I know people judge me by all of them and that's fair you know like I could imagine there'd be some vegan who wouldn't want to be associated with me politically because they disagree with me on the First Nations issue or for any of the other issues that have been addressed in my 770 videos on this channel because I think I'm too left-wing cuz I'm too left-wing no that's that's not likely to happen much more likely other vegans will be more left-wing than me and think I'm - I'm too moderate they wouldn't use that term but they'll come to some conclusion like that but look the point is implicitly here today in 2017 people can judge people can judge themselves people here stupid ugly rumors about me all the time or defamation and insults made up by other vegans and you know you can have a look for yourself you can you can hear in my own words tone of voice you could hear with my political philosophy is you can hear my position on any specific issue and you can decide for yourself whether or not I'm somebody you can work with somebody you'd cooperate with in the vegan movement what's I you know this is a unique period of our history that way we've never had that luxury before think of yourself in terms of local politics especially 1930s or 1960s somebody tells you well look some of the guys in the Black Panthers are okay but this particular guy has a background as a drug dealer or as a criminal or as a pimp and some did a lot of history books today are celebrating that rather than momentum yet but at the time you know that some of the guys who were black radicals had a criminal background you know before after or during their black radicalism when you're in that position what do you do at that time you can't Google them you can't go to cocoa and put the person's name and find out more you can't approach them face to face and ask you can't walk out and say look look man you know I got your pamphlet you know I like what your political movement is ostensibly about however this is what people are saying about you I don't really know where you stand on issues in terms of people having more than one agenda or more than one hidden agenda you can imagine being involved a group like the Black Panthers then you hear that some of the people within the organization are communists some of them were and you think you don't want to be a part of that you don't want your name to be on the same bill with those people by the way just mentioned um I knew a guy I knew a white man who was not only the first white member of the Black Panthers but he was a tall they're their founding meaning so he was one of the first 50 members he was one of the original roundtable of people who found the Black Panthers he had some really interesting insights on the history of that movement and how it started and who the different for people who the different people were influencing the movement as it as a progressed from its early stages so just mentioning he was he was often the only white man in the room with those meetings as you can imagine yeah the disadvantage of this age is that rumors can spread a lot more easily on the Internet thanks specifically for you you know I my family was really concerned when we were first getting together because there were these brokers online about you and it really is up to the person to listen to your videos and actually putting the time to see your side of the story is someone else the side of the story and determine is this person more reliable like who should I you know who's the better historian like you know anyway so that is a disadvantage you know you have to you have to you have to be able to look at a source and see if it's reliable or something that you can right go from your point is the rumors can spread maybe in a more dynamic way to the rumors can spread more rapidly yeah what the antidote is right there right someone in the Black Panthers could be assumed it could be accused of being a communist in right you know that rumor could just come right dissipate because it's not everywhere on the Internet I think somewhat permanent I feel I feel more comfortable with it with the system today though cuz at least then you can also address those things once right like I can make one video saying no I'm not a communist and no I'm not a former dope dealer and then it's it's there anyone wants to see it can look it up I think the opposite I think it's hard to imagine how when the pre-internet era you'd be hounded by the same questions again and again yeah and that some of them might be the same kind of rumors you know are you a communist are you a criminal what about the rumors surrounding your divorce or did you cheat on your wife or girlfriend I think all those questions were still there but that how do you deal with them at a town-hall meeting and face-to-face interactions that there are other people in politics okay I just say I think that's it's a much more intractable problem in the pre-internet but yeah you're right I mean the the rumors start quicker and go further and so on in our in our Internet age now this is the we're thing nation rising it's a terrible who was at the roundtable meeting that came up with his name there's a new vegan would be political movement called nation rising I don't even know why they're called nation rising I mean if I went and I just put like nation rising politics into Google and you know guess what you get it sounds like a white nationalist movement it sounds like some kind of fascist far-right movement it's a very poor choice name and then on the other hand that kind of sentiment nation rising that kind of phraseology is associated with with First Nations people actually I got one link out of Google or a Hawaiian revival the native people of Hawaii trying to come back in the brink of of genocide you know trying to revive their language and cultural heritage and so on so this idea of nation rising why maybe they're just trying to be obtuse about it and like that they're not a vegan movement appeal appeal to people who aren't vegan but oh I see what you mean I see what you mean right right right so sorry so yeah so they they want to appeal to people who are outside of the vegan Folles there's nothing okay yeah maybe that's maybe they care about reducing the subsidies for the dairy industry but aren't really vegan I don't know those people it's a very small number of people that those people wouldn't you describe them as a nation would you describe I don't already want to describe vegans as a nation well that's what I thought the point was like there's like a nation of vegans that's ready to rise up but if you're talking about this larger category of soft core slightly uncomfortable with government subsidies for the meat industry not really vegan maybe not even reduce it Aryan are they a nation do they comprise a nation that's gonna rise up and change the history of Canada I don't I don't see it I don't see it okay and so I its weak but their their main tagline the main the main thing they they give you and their pamphlets so to speak is the claim quote it's not a protest period it's a revolution period so this is this is very problematic for me no I didn't just come on the internet and complain about it I wrote to them the great Canadian tradition I wrote to them for more information and who do I get a reply from I get a reply from a member of direct action everywhere TXE right so this is the problem nation rising it's basically it we know nothing beyond that we don't know who they are we don't know anything about them personally and in politics everybody is somebody everybody has to stand on that platform and be judged for all their miscellaneous political beliefs I said before there are some people I like it's not integral to my life as an aspiring vegan activist that I have a position on First Nations languages that I have a position on Korean Ojibwe that's not care about you can judge me it tells you something about me Tosa know who I am but with this kind of thing so you're looking at a blank facade a blank propaganda they use the name nation rising and they say what they're doing is not a protest it's it's a revolution alright we'll see if they live the background looks suspiciously like a protest I'd be so much more comfortable there doing if they said the exact opposite if they said don't worry we're not leading a revolution it's just the protest oh okay well maybe it's not maybe it's not that bad if you're not gonna put anything down right I mean yeah okay what does it mean what does it mean in this day and age to make promises of revolution and to do it in a completely anonymous way it seems to me like we're throwing away all the advantages of the 21st century an era when it's really possible to know someone's political beliefs in a meaningful way when it's possible interact with them you can watch my youtube channel you can join my patreon you can ask me questions then I make videos replying to those questions and there's there's progress that's that's the great thing about politics the 21st century you're throwing all that away to instead have an anonymous facade promises of revolution and we're left to wonder who are these people what do they represent politically what are their what are their beliefs now look at me obviously you're under no obligation do so but even though you know the woman who replied to my email I don't know she's the organizer I don't know she's just a woman who buys my email I don't think she has anything to be ashamed about if she made this if she put her name on it she said this is her protest reflecting her values and who she is if she's in the leadership role okay maybe I can sign on to that maybe I can talk to her maybe I can find out maybe I can read her resume find out more about her like you know I mean I think again this is a lot of my criticism of both political attitudes and religious attitudes I think these people perceive weakness as strength they think it's a strength to have this stark revolutionary facade who are we we're anonymous we're nobody we're all wearing a mask you don't know who we are you don't know what we believe what we represent when they were calling for revolution and talking about so-called national uprising well I don't know maybe this is a facade and underneath the facade you're a couple of dorks from direct action everywhere who are aware that direct action everywhere DXE has become kind of so what's the word so ominous it's reputation has become has become such a liability that you need to create a new front in order to reach out to and and have common cause with Toronto Pig save and you know a couple of other couple of other organizations that are listed on the website animal justice and not all of these are vegan a some of these are non vegan animal rights groups they don't think anonymous voices so I just love what you said in your response to or your first emails or that you know revolutions have body counts and I think maybe people don't think about revolution and historical terms like as much as you do because you know if you've studied revolutions and you know Russia and China and people don't really think about him right people don't think about it in that way I think the the meaning of revolution is its losses its meaning a little bit well I mean I think it's funny too because yeah they could present this information in some other way they could be making comparison to the Industrial Revolution the Scientific Revolution you know there are other ways we use the word revolution but I'm not being insincere when you look at this it is I think trying to capture the ambiance of well I'd say specifically anarchists or a narco communists you know left-wing you know revolutionary ardor which vegans very often lack now okay look let's let's preface here what is it they're actually calling for this is the weird thing this is the paradoxical thing what they're calling for isn't revolutionary what they're calling for is an end to government subsidies for the meatpacking industry and they want the government to shab support for farmers making the transition you know so that farmers don't suddenly become unemployed overnight yeah which is great like you know I think they're about us page has some really good really good information I think it's good well okay there's about six sentences here information okay yeah but that's that's their platform they want to end government subsidies they want to help farmers with that transition and they even say we are a love based movement we are not trying to destroy farmers so this is this is really paradoxical so why would you say it's not a protest it's a revolution why wouldn't you say look guys this isn't a revolutionary movement this is a totally reasonable request to amend the tax code to amend how taxation works in Canada and here's how we're going to accomplish it here's the plan we're gonna do it the same way PCRM does the same way any other lobbying for for government changes it makes no sense instead what they want to do is front on some kind of left-wing radical aesthetic yeah I remember when Bernie was running for president Bernie Sanders and if you actually went to his website he really gave a good outline of every single road thing that he was hoping to accomplish as president and you know I think more politicians and political groups such as this such as this one should write should use that as a model to actually have okay create create new subsidies to ensure healthy organic we're int we're against organic organic is not ving as mentioned they probably don't know that organic involves using you know cow blood as fertilizer and so on and cow poo too but anyway create new subsidies to ensure healthy organic plant-based food is affordable for everyone in particular indigenous and low-income communities okay what's revolutionary about this why is this a revolution why is this a nation rising why package it that way why approach it that way now okay a funny thing is I don't know there's any point reading out the whole email correspondence but okay I I think I think I got to do this I wrote to her say her cuz this person you respond I wrote to nation rising I wrote hello I'm a Canadian vegan activist with the YouTube channel that has hundreds of discussions of vegan politics etc again we're above well above 700 videos at this point so that's not a boast although I would obviously although I would obviously support addenda subsidies for animal agriculture and this is for example a significant source of tension between myself or any given vegan and the Green Party as the Green Party actually calls for more subsidies to support the Canadian meat and dairy Canadian meat dairy farmers the current situation with nation rising is one I do not know enough about who or what the organization is this is being totally sincere guys I just want to emphasize this again this is the difference between politics in the 1930s 1960s and politics today in the 21st century where you can read my resume you can read my work history you can come on YouTube you can know who I am politically you can decide for yourself whether or not you want to support what I support whether you want to stand where I stand and I got to tell you I don't want to support direct action everywhere direct action everywhere in and out of court all the time they're facing criminal charges right now they're trying to defend themselves against charges of terrorism I don't want any part of that I do not want my name attached to TXE and I don't want to be a part of nation rising if they're a front organization for DXE I wrote I wrote to nation rising up sorry yeah yeah this was called t-shirts not nation uprising nation rising right got it it's like cake rising anyway look I sing I wrote to them I get a reply from someone in DXE to me that's a really bad sign oh well I don't want to be part of the XE you know this is a this is a choice I've made after doing real research I want to know who you people are and what you represent and yes what your agenda is I've already said agenda is not a bad word what your objectives are and I think of the 21st century have a right to know I don't have to make this political decision any more on the basis of just a pamphlet we should be able to know more about this about who you are what you represent and what methods you're gonna use to pursue it you say it's not just a protest you say it's a revolution okay so you can occupy a building are you gonna burn it down what you say it's not a protest so what am I being invited to a revolution are you gonna shoot people to the head that's what revolutionaries do are you gonna burn down buildings are you gonna barricade a street these are legit questions and the fact that you are DXE that as soon as I write to you the reply I get is from DXE DXE endorses various forms of quote violence against property unquote which leads to violence against human beings that's what leads to so they're making murky claims and that their website doesn't really have that much okay you're right it doesn't have that much information it just we pretty much just read it all sir yeah I think maybe the are under the impression that it could make their movement look edgy and attract people to it but to me I think that kind of signals that it's maybe unorganized or shoddy like they don't really know what what people are being invited to do at this point is my impression that I you from looking at this website it's like you know if you if you're going to put up a website and invite people to do something you should have like clear goals and say you say what about your agenda you said you should have a full platform like Bernie Sanders we use that comparison we actually suppose of what he's gonna do and how it's gonna do it it would be more professional and it would attract a different character of people I think well if you're asking people to sign up and donate their time donate their money and attend a protest that is not a protest that I want to know what it is what am i doing any money - Who am I being associated with and so on you know and again for me it's if it's DXE I don't I don't want to play you know I don't want to be part of the same group as DXE so you know these are decisions we often make bothers but again I think what you're describing is again a fundamental problem of perceiving weakness as strength I think that idea of okay we're gonna have a clean facade nobody's name is on it nobody's particular political beliefs are on it you know we're gonna have this clean revolutionary aesthetic you know I think they perceive that as strengths but it's really weak now again this comes up in the email I think I make a number of contrasts here in one contrast is - the Green Party you know if you support the Green Party you know exactly who you're supporting and at different times different people have been leaders of the Green Party sometimes they were really left-wing sometimes not so much you know the character of the party and what goals their position really has changed you know from year to year and decade to decade but you know who my point is here you know what you're supporting because first and foremost you know who you're supporting that's how you that's how you find that out um you know I mentioned dr. Melanie joy so if you join a political movement founded by dr. Melanie joy you know who she is you can look up a resume you can read her book you can see her YouTube channel you find out who she is that's the great step forward from the pre-internet past when all you had maybe was a pamphlet and some rumors and accusations that you couldn't you couldn't really counter you could be right-wing extremists you could be left-wing extremists you could be a coalition that formed out of ecological activists I know nothing from the available materials about what your organization is or who formed it right and again I think those of you questions I would be asking the 1960s if someone just handed me a pamphlet and say hey you know I mean a lot of those movements said hey Coalition for peace but they were actually a Coalition for communism some of them said you know Coalition for black rights well what kind of black rights do you support you know again that's a real question you know there's thousands some are violence some one nonviolent different different methods different approaches you got it you've got to dig past the pamphlet and in this case you know they've kind of defied the logic the internet we only get that family okay there's a difficult to understand contrast between the nonviolent demand to end subsidies and the rhetoric about revolution I'm an old political science major I've written quite a lot of research about real revolutions they have real body counts please understand that I'm the sort of person who researches vegan institutions or movements precisely because I want to understand what works and what doesn't and this research does not indicate hostility I actually read the annual reports from groups as diverse as Petta TXE at center right now DXE got mentioned there but she doesn't actually recognize it so I get this reply from Jenny Heysel thanks for your message we are a group of animal rights activists who want to see an end to animal agriculture subsidies there is no hidden political agenda it's just as simple as it sounds well is it just as simple as revolution it's just as simple as it's not a protest it's a revolution it's just as simple as it's not me that's violence it's just as simple as no compromise the animal exploiters like think about all the slogans DXE has thrown out which which really are similar to this and then of course they proved themselves to be hypocrites even that ridiculous situation with DXE protesting a specific civic butcher shop in California in Berkeley California they did end up compromising they did it that's exactly what they swore they'd never do you know they wouldn't stop til we shut down over well you said okay you so you're promising it's not a protest it's a revolution are we gonna see you live up to that promise we want it to end for the good of the people to plan and the animals we're trying to bring together people in order to care about these three issues to make it so I wrote back saying okay thanks to the reply there was no discussion of any hidden agenda in my message I think that's worth drawing attention to here there is some paranoia in her reply and it may be paranoia that's well found it because I didn't ask about a hidden agenda I I just said it's difficult to know who your organization is or what you represent you could be right-wing extremist you could be lovely extremist you could be ecological activist I need to know more you don't provide me with this and again they sound like neo-nazis nation rising it sounds like a white supremacist group that's so you know I didn't say anything we hit agenda however everybody is somebody I'm a vegan activist but for example I also have past involvement with First Nations indigenous languages so yes for example I have an agenda in as much as I care about the Korean language not going extinct for most vegans this is neither good nor bad but merely interesting it is something about Who I am politically likewise every organization even petaa etc reflects the political reality of its founders DXE is an extreme example in some ways to understand what DXE is and what it does you really need to understand the idiosyncratic political views and experiences of Wayne and Prix of the two people at the top of that organization that's very true but that's true of most political organizations small medium or large I mean you know even when you get into really large political organizations you won't understand what's going on in the US occupation government of Iraq you know we just saw this documentary about that it comes down to a small number of personalities you know you need to know about a couple of people for what that organization is what it's doing talking about one department in a university but you know small and medium sized political organizations it's even more true it's kind of easy to hide behind the fact that they are supported by Toronto Pig save and some of these other organizations that you that are on their website you know they're able to hide behind that and say you know we're not I don't know who the founders are what they were what they're advertising is that it's just a it's a group which he says in the email it's just a nation rising yeah she said we want to bring together people and organizations who care about these three issues to make it happen right so yeah but to make what happened not a protest okay yeah revolution to end revolution in musti's revolutionary tax reforms right something else you said you said this we talked about it before you said that maybe this exists to reach out beyond veganism to bring in people who are not vegan who would support this and I said yeah but then the revolutionary get up the revolutionary stick is even worse because it's the only public you'd be able to reach you can alike that would normally be conservatives and libertarians who are guests are not attracted to this this prose this this rhetoric there's a kind of segment of the public or just really big on not wasting taxpayers dollars normally small see conservative or Big Al libertarian or something those people could get behind this but not if you're promising a revolution not if you package yourself in this way yeah you're right not because there are people who on the point on point of principle free-market principal or not wasting taxpayers principle would support you but you gotta put yourself in a lane where you can support where you can be supported by them where you're really making common cause so I don't know I didn't know if this was their trying to do or not I think I think it looks like not that much thought to it but again being being self-critical here I mean I've said you know okay if you want understand a political organization like DXE you have to understand the idiosyncratic leaders and who they are and believe me within the last five years most of the changes at DXE they have idiosyncratic as the word they've come down to particular knee-jerk reactions from Wayne Priya sorry not to get in a big digression but for example they used to preach they were a strictly horizontal organization with no leadership and then they got rid of that entirely and now they say they're a vertical organization with clear leaders and hierarchy and elections and in those scandals with election so things have changed but they have changed because Wayne has changed because one man has changed and his girlfriend one woman you know now if you and I start our own foundation in Canada it's up to people if they want to get involved in it plethora of videos about your political views on online they want to get behind her remember also my criticism of black lives matter I said look they don't define who they are on what they do in the Constitution they need to take the time to write a better definition I would take the time to make a better website or better Constitution than nation rising or about black lives matter however my point is this criticism still applies to me or still applies to us you know people would be able to look at organization and say well I don't think they're gonna tackle this issue okay let that fundraiser for sorry sir I was invited to join a fundraiser for an animal sanctuary and I said well look you know if you actually checked my channel this is my position on the issue and the people making the invitation said well we're still happy to have you and I said well without knowing more about the situation I don't think I can do yes reflecting things that you have a different point of view I'm not saying that's a black-and-white issue it's not like I think all sanctuaries are evil however you know my point is if you you and I in the future being involved in making politics people would be able to look at who we are and know what we stand for and what we represent and which issues we will and won't take what position on and what that right I've repeatedly said I'm not gonna protest against supports throwing carriages right so yeah in that same way you need to know who are the leaders what is the leadership and obviously in this case they're claiming they don't have any Constitution or any any any program of action or any agenda beyond this simple point about subsidies maybe maybe but I don't know you know you're not inviting me in so probably you got some principles that exclude me probably and maybe I got some principles that exclude excute excluding you - if we can figure out who we are another side so yeah this this point you know I stated - you're very simply you know everybody is somebody and the great advantage of doing politics in 21st century is that it's knowable we can move beyond the pamphlet to know who these people are and what they represent and also what methods they will and won't employ you know so I mean I'm big on democratic transparency I'm big on participating in the democratic organs of the government we've got and also internally being democratic ourselves DXE is the exact opposite on those two issues they both don't use the democratic organs of the United States of America and Canada so they don't use democratic methods in that sense scaling it up and internally they are not democratic doctor has been out there the opposite of democracy well yeah our tyrannical or whatever want to say I've a playlist of videos talking about politics of of DXE and I and I just want say against you I make those videos with with sympathy for the devil I do have sympathy with the other side I can imagine what situation I'd be in if I were playing for that team or if I were if I were in Wayne's position and so on okay so I continue with my with with my letter here so my point here is that someone who wanted to get involved would have no sense of who and what your organization is beyond a very vague slogan and the slogan itself is really not that accurate either what you're offering isn't a revolution or else it is and I'm assuming that the honest answer is that no you're not revolutionaries not in your politics not in your practice please understand I'm not claiming to be perfect my own situation as a vegan activist is for example people hear about me because I've written a children's book about veganism then someone else tells them know that guys are conservatives don't support them they can look at my youtube channel and decide for themselves if I'm conservative or not in fact I'm not but understand why some extremely left-wing people perceive me that way and so on in 2017 I don't know if such vague political platitudes linked to vague calls for revolution are really the way to organize people I can say from my part that this is a weaker start than calls for action that come from specific organizers with specific resumes compare for example the failed attempt of dr. Melanie joy or organizations that really disclose who they are and what they want to accomplish and what methods they will and won't use for example PCRM very successful or the go vegan world we're gonna start in that right so that's it look you know I don't make this video now claiming to be an expert on nation rising I don't think anyone can claim that I think they put themselves in a precarious position for no good where nobody can really know who this organization is or what they represent or just who organizes them who's making the decisions who's gonna be responsible if they're massively successful or if it all goes terribly wrong they list the logos of a number of different organizations but if you scroll down to the bottom of their web page one of those logos is direct action everywhere I should make another video about this ASAP direct action everywhere are facing charges of terrorism and you can go on YouTube now and hear Wayne's long lecture about why he doesn't consider himself a terrorist even if legally he's got a he's got a bite that bullet he's got to face those charges you know um I do not want it on my resume it's just a terrible name to begin with that I had anything to do with nation rising I don't want to list that I was a member of nation rising what that doesn't look good in my resume I don't want any positive connection between myself and direct action everywhere and you know I wrote to them seeking more information that's very clear in my first message I wrote to them seeking more information and they gave me none that's a red flag and the only other indication I have is that the name of the person who replied to me is the direct action everywhere stooge so I don't have any crazy conspiracy theory about this but I would tend to assume that this is a coalition and a front organization put together so the direct action everywhere can recruit more people and so that direct action everywhere could have a kind of roundtable that these other groups would sit at despite the odious reputation that the right action everywhere has earned in the last couple of years that's all I know I wrote to them asking for more information so that I could know more and they have completely failed to provide that information
say what they're doing is not a protest it's it's a revolution all right we'll see if they live looks suspiciously like a protest this is this is really paradoxical so why would you say it's not a protest it's a revolution why wouldn't you say look guys this isn't a revolutionary movement this is a totally reasonable request to amend the tax code to amend how taxation works in Canada and here's how we're going to accomplish it here's the plan we're gonna do it the same way PCRM does the same way any other lobbying for for government changes it makes no sense instead what they want to do is front on some kind of left-wing radical aesthetic maybe they're just trying to be obtuse about it and like that they're not a vegan movement appeal appeal to people who aren't vegan dole oh I see what you mean I see what you mean right right so sorry so yeah so they they want to appeal to people who are outside of the vegan fold or something okay yeah maybe that's maybe but aren't really vegan I don't know though those people it's a very small number of people that those people would you describe them as a nation would you describe I don't already want to describe vegans as a nation Lee that's what I thought the point was like there's like a nation of vegans that's ready to rise up but if you're talking about this larger category of soft core slightly uncomfortable with government subsidies for the meat industry not really vegan maybe not even reduce it Aryan are they a nation do they comprise a nation that's gonna rise up and change the history of Canada I know I don't see it you say it's not just a protest you say it's a revolution okay so you can occupy a building are you gonna burn it down what you say it's not a protest so what am I being invited to a revolution are you gonna shoot people to the head that's what revolutionaries do are you gonna burn down buildings are you gonna barricade a street these are legit questions and the fact that you are DXE that as soon as I write to you they'll reply I get is from DXE DXE endorses various forms of quote violence against property unquote which leads to violence against human beings as one of leads to murky claims and that their website doesn't really have that much okay you're right it doesn't have that much information it just we pretty much just read at all yeah yeah I think maybe they are under the impression that it could make their movement look edgy and people to it but to me I think that kind of signals that it's maybe unorganized or shoddy like they don't really know what what people are being invited to do you know I wrote to them seeking more information that's very clear in my first message I wrote to them seeking more information and they gave me none that's a red flag and the only other indication I have is that the name of the person who replied to me is the direct action everywhere stooge so I don't have any crazy conspiracy theory about this but I would tend to assume that this is a coalition and a front organization put together so the direct action everywhere can recruit more people and so that direct action everywhere could have a kind of roundtable that these other groups would sit at despite the odious reputation that the right action everywhere has earned in the last couple of years baddest yen [Music] [Music] uh-uh no yen you know what's winter in the tropics because my best girl actually has a jacket on and it is possible for us to record this video or read a book or do anything without an electric fan directly blowing on us at all times you get get a little bit of separation from the the electric fans in your life I think we're living in a really interesting transitional time in politics so we did talk about this a little bit while walking around town before making the video but like back in the 1960s or the 1930s if you were getting involved in politics you would really depend on pamphlets and rumor word-of-mouth to find out who were your political leaders especially at the local level what did they really represent what was their real agenda and look this word agenda has a variety of meanings you know all of us have more than one agenda I said openly in writing this letter to these these guys these vegans at nation rising look I got more than one agenda I'm interested in First Nations and the Cree in the edge away and the Mohawks I've got more than one political interest I've got more than one iron in the fire doesn't mean evil you know what is the difference we having an agenda at having an objective I'm you know I have more than one political objective and I know people judge me by all of them and that's fair you know like I could imagine there'd be some vegan who wouldn't want to be associated with me politically because they disagree with me on the First Nations issue or for any of the other issues that have been addressed in my 770 videos on this channel because I think I'm too left-wing cuz I'm too left-wing no that's that's not likely to happen much more likely other vegans will be more left-wing than me and think I'm - I'm too moderate they wouldn't use that term but they'll come to some conclusion like that but look the point is implicitly here today in 2017 people can judge people can judge themselves people here stupid ugly rumors about me all the time or defamation and insults made up by other vegans and you know you can have a look for yourself you can you can hear in my own words tone of voice you could hear with my political philosophy is you can hear my position on any specific issue and you can decide for yourself whether or not I'm somebody you can work with somebody you'd cooperate with in the vegan movement what's I you know this is a unique period of our history that way we've never had that luxury before think of yourself in terms of local politics especially 1930s or 1960s somebody tells you well look some of the guys in the Black Panthers are okay but this particular guy has a background as a drug dealer or as a criminal or as a pimp and some did a lot of history books today are celebrating that rather than momentum yet but at the time you know that some of the guys who were black radicals had a criminal background you know before after or during their black radicalism when you're in that position what do you do at that time you can't Google them you can't go to cocoa and put the person's name and find out more you can't approach them face to face and ask you can't walk out and say look look man you know I got your pamphlet you know I like what your political movement is ostensibly about however this is what people are saying about you I don't really know where you stand on issues in terms of people having more than one agenda or more than one hidden agenda you can imagine being involved a group like the Black Panthers then you hear that some of the people within the organization are communists some of them were and you think you don't want to be a part of that you don't want your name to be on the same bill with those people by the way just mentioned um I knew a guy I knew a white man who was not only the first white member of the Black Panthers but he was a tall they're their founding meaning so he was one of the first 50 members he was one of the original roundtable of people who found the Black Panthers he had some really interesting insights on the history of that movement and how it started and who the different for people who the different people were influencing the movement as it as a progressed from its early stages so just mentioning he was he was often the only white man in the room with those meetings as you can imagine yeah the disadvantage of this age is that rumors can spread a lot more easily on the Internet thanks specifically for you you know I my family was really concerned when we were first getting together because there were these brokers online about you and it really is up to the person to listen to your videos and actually putting the time to see your side of the story is someone else the side of the story and determine is this person more reliable like who should I you know who's the better historian like you know anyway so that is a disadvantage you know you have to you have to you have to be able to look at a source and see if it's reliable or something that you can right go from your point is the rumors can spread maybe in a more dynamic way to the rumors can spread more rapidly yeah what the antidote is right there right someone in the Black Panthers could be assumed it could be accused of being a communist in right you know that rumor could just come right dissipate because it's not everywhere on the Internet I think somewhat permanent I feel I feel more comfortable with it with the system today though cuz at least then you can also address those things once right like I can make one video saying no I'm not a communist and no I'm not a former dope dealer and then it's it's there anyone wants to see it can look it up I think the opposite I think it's hard to imagine how when the pre-internet era you'd be hounded by the same questions again and again yeah and that some of them might be the same kind of rumors you know are you a communist are you a criminal what about the rumors surrounding your divorce or did you cheat on your wife or girlfriend I think all those questions were still there but that how do you deal with them at a town-hall meeting and face-to-face interactions that there are other people in politics okay I just say I think that's it's a much more intractable problem in the pre-internet but yeah you're right I mean the the rumors start quicker and go further and so on in our in our Internet age now this is the we're thing nation rising it's a terrible who was at the roundtable meeting that came up with his name there's a new vegan would be political movement called nation rising I don't even know why they're called nation rising I mean if I went and I just put like nation rising politics into Google and you know guess what you get it sounds like a white nationalist movement it sounds like some kind of fascist far-right movement it's a very poor choice name and then on the other hand that kind of sentiment nation rising that kind of phraseology is associated with with First Nations people actually I got one link out of Google or a Hawaiian revival the native people of Hawaii trying to come back in the brink of of genocide you know trying to revive their language and cultural heritage and so on so this idea of nation rising why maybe they're just trying to be obtuse about it and like that they're not a vegan movement appeal appeal to people who aren't vegan but oh I see what you mean I see what you mean right right right so sorry so yeah so they they want to appeal to people who are outside of the vegan Folles there's nothing okay yeah maybe that's maybe they care about reducing the subsidies for the dairy industry but aren't really vegan I don't know those people it's a very small number of people that those people wouldn't you describe them as a nation would you describe I don't already want to describe vegans as a nation well that's what I thought the point was like there's like a nation of vegans that's ready to rise up but if you're talking about this larger category of soft core slightly uncomfortable with government subsidies for the meat industry not really vegan maybe not even reduce it Aryan are they a nation do they comprise a nation that's gonna rise up and change the history of Canada I don't I don't see it I don't see it okay and so I its weak but their their main tagline the main the main thing they they give you and their pamphlets so to speak is the claim quote it's not a protest period it's a revolution period so this is this is very problematic for me no I didn't just come on the internet and complain about it I wrote to them the great Canadian tradition I wrote to them for more information and who do I get a reply from I get a reply from a member of direct action everywhere TXE right so this is the problem nation rising it's basically it we know nothing beyond that we don't know who they are we don't know anything about them personally and in politics everybody is somebody everybody has to stand on that platform and be judged for all their miscellaneous political beliefs I said before there are some people I like it's not integral to my life as an aspiring vegan activist that I have a position on First Nations languages that I have a position on Korean Ojibwe that's not care about you can judge me it tells you something about me Tosa know who I am but with this kind of thing so you're looking at a blank facade a blank propaganda they use the name nation rising and they say what they're doing is not a protest it's it's a revolution alright we'll see if they live the background looks suspiciously like a protest I'd be so much more comfortable there doing if they said the exact opposite if they said don't worry we're not leading a revolution it's just the protest oh okay well maybe it's not maybe it's not that bad if you're not gonna put anything down right I mean yeah okay what does it mean what does it mean in this day and age to make promises of revolution and to do it in a completely anonymous way it seems to me like we're throwing away all the advantages of the 21st century an era when it's really possible to know someone's political beliefs in a meaningful way when it's possible interact with them you can watch my youtube channel you can join my patreon you can ask me questions then I make videos replying to those questions and there's there's progress that's that's the great thing about politics the 21st century you're throwing all that away to instead have an anonymous facade promises of revolution and we're left to wonder who are these people what do they represent politically what are their what are their beliefs now look at me obviously you're under no obligation do so but even though you know the woman who replied to my email I don't know she's the organizer I don't know she's just a woman who buys my email I don't think she has anything to be ashamed about if she made this if she put her name on it she said this is her protest reflecting her values and who she is if she's in the leadership role okay maybe I can sign on to that maybe I can talk to her maybe I can find out maybe I can read her resume find out more about her like you know I mean I think again this is a lot of my criticism of both political attitudes and religious attitudes I think these people perceive weakness as strength they think it's a strength to have this stark revolutionary facade who are we we're anonymous we're nobody we're all wearing a mask you don't know who we are you don't know what we believe what we represent when they were calling for revolution and talking about so-called national uprising well I don't know maybe this is a facade and underneath the facade you're a couple of dorks from direct action everywhere who are aware that direct action everywhere DXE has become kind of so what's the word so ominous it's reputation has become has become such a liability that you need to create a new front in order to reach out to and and have common cause with Toronto Pig save and you know a couple of other couple of other organizations that are listed on the website animal justice and not all of these are vegan a some of these are non vegan animal rights groups they don't think anonymous voices so I just love what you said in your response to or your first emails or that you know revolutions have body counts and I think maybe people don't think about revolution and historical terms like as much as you do because you know if you've studied revolutions and you know Russia and China and people don't really think about him right people don't think about it in that way I think the the meaning of revolution is its losses its meaning a little bit well I mean I think it's funny too because yeah they could present this information in some other way they could be making comparison to the Industrial Revolution the Scientific Revolution you know there are other ways we use the word revolution but I'm not being insincere when you look at this it is I think trying to capture the ambiance of well I'd say specifically anarchists or a narco communists you know left-wing you know revolutionary ardor which vegans very often lack now okay look let's let's preface here what is it they're actually calling for this is the weird thing this is the paradoxical thing what they're calling for isn't revolutionary what they're calling for is an end to government subsidies for the meatpacking industry and they want the government to shab support for farmers making the transition you know so that farmers don't suddenly become unemployed overnight yeah which is great like you know I think they're about us page has some really good really good information I think it's good well okay there's about six sentences here information okay yeah but that's that's their platform they want to end government subsidies they want to help farmers with that transition and they even say we are a love based movement we are not trying to destroy farmers so this is this is really paradoxical so why would you say it's not a protest it's a revolution why wouldn't you say look guys this isn't a revolutionary movement this is a totally reasonable request to amend the tax code to amend how taxation works in Canada and here's how we're going to accomplish it here's the plan we're gonna do it the same way PCRM does the same way any other lobbying for for government changes it makes no sense instead what they want to do is front on some kind of left-wing radical aesthetic yeah I remember when Bernie was running for president Bernie Sanders and if you actually went to his website he really gave a good outline of every single road thing that he was hoping to accomplish as president and you know I think more politicians and political groups such as this such as this one should write should use that as a model to actually have okay create create new subsidies to ensure healthy organic we're int we're against organic organic is not ving as mentioned they probably don't know that organic involves using you know cow blood as fertilizer and so on and cow poo too but anyway create new subsidies to ensure healthy organic plant-based food is affordable for everyone in particular indigenous and low-income communities okay what's revolutionary about this why is this a revolution why is this a nation rising why package it that way why approach it that way now okay a funny thing is I don't know there's any point reading out the whole email correspondence but okay I I think I think I got to do this I wrote to her say her cuz this person you respond I wrote to nation rising I wrote hello I'm a Canadian vegan activist with the YouTube channel that has hundreds of discussions of vegan politics etc again we're above well above 700 videos at this point so that's not a boast although I would obviously although I would obviously support addenda subsidies for animal agriculture and this is for example a significant source of tension between myself or any given vegan and the Green Party as the Green Party actually calls for more subsidies to support the Canadian meat and dairy Canadian meat dairy farmers the current situation with nation rising is one I do not know enough about who or what the organization is this is being totally sincere guys I just want to emphasize this again this is the difference between politics in the 1930s 1960s and politics today in the 21st century where you can read my resume you can read my work history you can come on YouTube you can know who I am politically you can decide for yourself whether or not you want to support what I support whether you want to stand where I stand and I got to tell you I don't want to support direct action everywhere direct action everywhere in and out of court all the time they're facing criminal charges right now they're trying to defend themselves against charges of terrorism I don't want any part of that I do not want my name attached to TXE and I don't want to be a part of nation rising if they're a front organization for DXE I wrote I wrote to nation rising up sorry yeah yeah this was called t-shirts not nation uprising nation rising right got it it's like cake rising anyway look I sing I wrote to them I get a reply from someone in DXE to me that's a really bad sign oh well I don't want to be part of the XE you know this is a this is a choice I've made after doing real research I want to know who you people are and what you represent and yes what your agenda is I've already said agenda is not a bad word what your objectives are and I think of the 21st century have a right to know I don't have to make this political decision any more on the basis of just a pamphlet we should be able to know more about this about who you are what you represent and what methods you're gonna use to pursue it you say it's not just a protest you say it's a revolution okay so you can occupy a building are you gonna burn it down what you say it's not a protest so what am I being invited to a revolution are you gonna shoot people to the head that's what revolutionaries do are you gonna burn down buildings are you gonna barricade a street these are legit questions and the fact that you are DXE that as soon as I write to you the reply I get is from DXE DXE endorses various forms of quote violence against property unquote which leads to violence against human beings that's what leads to so they're making murky claims and that their website doesn't really have that much okay you're right it doesn't have that much information it just we pretty much just read it all sir yeah I think maybe the are under the impression that it could make their movement look edgy and attract people to it but to me I think that kind of signals that it's maybe unorganized or shoddy like they don't really know what what people are being invited to do at this point is my impression that I you from looking at this website it's like you know if you if you're going to put up a website and invite people to do something you should have like clear goals and say you say what about your agenda you said you should have a full platform like Bernie Sanders we use that comparison we actually suppose of what he's gonna do and how it's gonna do it it would be more professional and it would attract a different character of people I think well if you're asking people to sign up and donate their time donate their money and attend a protest that is not a protest that I want to know what it is what am i doing any money - Who am I being associated with and so on you know and again for me it's if it's DXE I don't I don't want to play you know I don't want to be part of the same group as DXE so you know these are decisions we often make bothers but again I think what you're describing is again a fundamental problem of perceiving weakness as strength I think that idea of okay we're gonna have a clean facade nobody's name is on it nobody's particular political beliefs are on it you know we're gonna have this clean revolutionary aesthetic you know I think they perceive that as strengths but it's really weak now again this comes up in the email I think I make a number of contrasts here in one contrast is - the Green Party you know if you support the Green Party you know exactly who you're supporting and at different times different people have been leaders of the Green Party sometimes they were really left-wing sometimes not so much you know the character of the party and what goals their position really has changed you know from year to year and decade to decade but you know who my point is here you know what you're supporting because first and foremost you know who you're supporting that's how you that's how you find that out um you know I mentioned dr. Melanie joy so if you join a political movement founded by dr. Melanie joy you know who she is you can look up a resume you can read her book you can see her YouTube channel you find out who she is that's the great step forward from the pre-internet past when all you had maybe was a pamphlet and some rumors and accusations that you couldn't you couldn't really counter you could be right-wing extremists you could be left-wing extremists you could be a coalition that formed out of ecological activists I know nothing from the available materials about what your organization is or who formed it right and again I think those of you questions I would be asking the 1960s if someone just handed me a pamphlet and say hey you know I mean a lot of those movements said hey Coalition for peace but they were actually a Coalition for communism some of them said you know Coalition for black rights well what kind of black rights do you support you know again that's a real question you know there's thousands some are violence some one nonviolent different different methods different approaches you got it you've got to dig past the pamphlet and in this case you know they've kind of defied the logic the internet we only get that family okay there's a difficult to understand contrast between the nonviolent demand to end subsidies and the rhetoric about revolution I'm an old political science major I've written quite a lot of research about real revolutions they have real body counts please understand that I'm the sort of person who researches vegan institutions or movements precisely because I want to understand what works and what doesn't and this research does not indicate hostility I actually read the annual reports from groups as diverse as Petta TXE at center right now DXE got mentioned there but she doesn't actually recognize it so I get this reply from Jenny Heysel thanks for your message we are a group of animal rights activists who want to see an end to animal agriculture subsidies there is no hidden political agenda it's just as simple as it sounds well is it just as simple as revolution it's just as simple as it's not a protest it's a revolution it's just as simple as it's not me that's violence it's just as simple as no compromise the animal exploiters like think about all the slogans DXE has thrown out which which really are similar to this and then of course they proved themselves to be hypocrites even that ridiculous situation with DXE protesting a specific civic butcher shop in California in Berkeley California they did end up compromising they did it that's exactly what they swore they'd never do you know they wouldn't stop til we shut down over well you said okay you so you're promising it's not a protest it's a revolution are we gonna see you live up to that promise we want it to end for the good of the people to plan and the animals we're trying to bring together people in order to care about these three issues to make it so I wrote back saying okay thanks to the reply there was no discussion of any hidden agenda in my message I think that's worth drawing attention to here there is some paranoia in her reply and it may be paranoia that's well found it because I didn't ask about a hidden agenda I I just said it's difficult to know who your organization is or what you represent you could be right-wing extremist you could be lovely extremist you could be ecological activist I need to know more you don't provide me with this and again they sound like neo-nazis nation rising it sounds like a white supremacist group that's so you know I didn't say anything we hit agenda however everybody is somebody I'm a vegan activist but for example I also have past involvement with First Nations indigenous languages so yes for example I have an agenda in as much as I care about the Korean language not going extinct for most vegans this is neither good nor bad but merely interesting it is something about Who I am politically likewise every organization even petaa etc reflects the political reality of its founders DXE is an extreme example in some ways to understand what DXE is and what it does you really need to understand the idiosyncratic political views and experiences of Wayne and Prix of the two people at the top of that organization that's very true but that's true of most political organizations small medium or large I mean you know even when you get into really large political organizations you won't understand what's going on in the US occupation government of Iraq you know we just saw this documentary about that it comes down to a small number of personalities you know you need to know about a couple of people for what that organization is what it's doing talking about one department in a university but you know small and medium sized political organizations it's even more true it's kind of easy to hide behind the fact that they are supported by Toronto Pig save and some of these other organizations that you that are on their website you know they're able to hide behind that and say you know we're not I don't know who the founders are what they were what they're advertising is that it's just a it's a group which he says in the email it's just a nation rising yeah she said we want to bring together people and organizations who care about these three issues to make it happen right so yeah but to make what happened not a protest okay yeah revolution to end revolution in musti's revolutionary tax reforms right something else you said you said this we talked about it before you said that maybe this exists to reach out beyond veganism to bring in people who are not vegan who would support this and I said yeah but then the revolutionary get up the revolutionary stick is even worse because it's the only public you'd be able to reach you can alike that would normally be conservatives and libertarians who are guests are not attracted to this this prose this this rhetoric there's a kind of segment of the public or just really big on not wasting taxpayers dollars normally small see conservative or Big Al libertarian or something those people could get behind this but not if you're promising a revolution not if you package yourself in this way yeah you're right not because there are people who on the point on point of principle free-market principal or not wasting taxpayers principle would support you but you gotta put yourself in a lane where you can support where you can be supported by them where you're really making common cause so I don't know I didn't know if this was their trying to do or not I think I think it looks like not that much thought to it but again being being self-critical here I mean I've said you know okay if you want understand a political organization like DXE you have to understand the idiosyncratic leaders and who they are and believe me within the last five years most of the changes at DXE they have idiosyncratic as the word they've come down to particular knee-jerk reactions from Wayne Priya sorry not to get in a big digression but for example they used to preach they were a strictly horizontal organization with no leadership and then they got rid of that entirely and now they say they're a vertical organization with clear leaders and hierarchy and elections and in those scandals with election so things have changed but they have changed because Wayne has changed because one man has changed and his girlfriend one woman you know now if you and I start our own foundation in Canada it's up to people if they want to get involved in it plethora of videos about your political views on online they want to get behind her remember also my criticism of black lives matter I said look they don't define who they are on what they do in the Constitution they need to take the time to write a better definition I would take the time to make a better website or better Constitution than nation rising or about black lives matter however my point is this criticism still applies to me or still applies to us you know people would be able to look at organization and say well I don't think they're gonna tackle this issue okay let that fundraiser for sorry sir I was invited to join a fundraiser for an animal sanctuary and I said well look you know if you actually checked my channel this is my position on the issue and the people making the invitation said well we're still happy to have you and I said well without knowing more about the situation I don't think I can do yes reflecting things that you have a different point of view I'm not saying that's a black-and-white issue it's not like I think all sanctuaries are evil however you know my point is if you you and I in the future being involved in making politics people would be able to look at who we are and know what we stand for and what we represent and which issues we will and won't take what position on and what that right I've repeatedly said I'm not gonna protest against supports throwing carriages right so yeah in that same way you need to know who are the leaders what is the leadership and obviously in this case they're claiming they don't have any Constitution or any any any program of action or any agenda beyond this simple point about subsidies maybe maybe but I don't know you know you're not inviting me in so probably you got some principles that exclude me probably and maybe I got some principles that exclude excute excluding you - if we can figure out who we are another side so yeah this this point you know I stated - you're very simply you know everybody is somebody and the great advantage of doing politics in 21st century is that it's knowable we can move beyond the pamphlet to know who these people are and what they represent and also what methods they will and won't employ you know so I mean I'm big on democratic transparency I'm big on participating in the democratic organs of the government we've got and also internally being democratic ourselves DXE is the exact opposite on those two issues they both don't use the democratic organs of the United States of America and Canada so they don't use democratic methods in that sense scaling it up and internally they are not democratic doctor has been out there the opposite of democracy well yeah our tyrannical or whatever want to say I've a playlist of videos talking about politics of of DXE and I and I just want say against you I make those videos with with sympathy for the devil I do have sympathy with the other side I can imagine what situation I'd be in if I were playing for that team or if I were if I were in Wayne's position and so on okay so I continue with my with with my letter here so my point here is that someone who wanted to get involved would have no sense of who and what your organization is beyond a very vague slogan and the slogan itself is really not that accurate either what you're offering isn't a revolution or else it is and I'm assuming that the honest answer is that no you're not revolutionaries not in your politics not in your practice please understand I'm not claiming to be perfect my own situation as a vegan activist is for example people hear about me because I've written a children's book about veganism then someone else tells them know that guys are conservatives don't support them they can look at my youtube channel and decide for themselves if I'm conservative or not in fact I'm not but understand why some extremely left-wing people perceive me that way and so on in 2017 I don't know if such vague political platitudes linked to vague calls for revolution are really the way to organize people I can say from my part that this is a weaker start than calls for action that come from specific organizers with specific resumes compare for example the failed attempt of dr. Melanie joy or organizations that really disclose who they are and what they want to accomplish and what methods they will and won't use for example PCRM very successful or the go vegan world we're gonna start in that right so that's it look you know I don't make this video now claiming to be an expert on nation rising I don't think anyone can claim that I think they put themselves in a precarious position for no good where nobody can really know who this organization is or what they represent or just who organizes them who's making the decisions who's gonna be responsible if they're massively successful or if it all goes terribly wrong they list the logos of a number of different organizations but if you scroll down to the bottom of their web page one of those logos is direct action everywhere I should make another video about this ASAP direct action everywhere are facing charges of terrorism and you can go on YouTube now and hear Wayne's long lecture about why he doesn't consider himself a terrorist even if legally he's got a he's got a bite that bullet he's got to face those charges you know um I do not want it on my resume it's just a terrible name to begin with that I had anything to do with nation rising I don't want to list that I was a member of nation rising what that doesn't look good in my resume I don't want any positive connection between myself and direct action everywhere and you know I wrote to them seeking more information that's very clear in my first message I wrote to them seeking more information and they gave me none that's a red flag and the only other indication I have is that the name of the person who replied to me is the direct action everywhere stooge so I don't have any crazy conspiracy theory about this but I would tend to assume that this is a coalition and a front organization put together so the direct action everywhere can recruit more people and so that direct action everywhere could have a kind of roundtable that these other groups would sit at despite the odious reputation that the right action everywhere has earned in the last couple of years that's all I know I wrote to them asking for more information so that I could know more and they have completely failed to provide that information