Talking to Jason Pizzino on Thailand, Life & Politics. (Vegan / Vegans / Veganism)

what you just did then but to do like a
brief intro you know what you're doing okay what I'm doing we didn't talk about that very go ahead you know why Michael meet you you and you tell me I'll under skin so he's heard of this izel lays out guys even mirza [ __ ] eyes on master on a [ __ ] is other not that i announce it is a mother google but my first name is izel I'm yeah I have a different nickname in every country I've lived in so in China my nickname in Chinese that you may have seen on my website www Azure com is the big shadow literally this is a way of translating the long shadow so I am I am tall but it's it's a funny nickname because it has more than one double entendre attached to it I did two job interviews in the same day like this via Skype probably wearing the same suit jacket I remember one of the people one of the Chinese people said to me that's a stupid nickname why did you choose that nickname Chinese and the other person other job you same day was like yeah that's that's a good nickname huh interesting so yeah do you have any do you have a Hebrew name yet or no you just use no no I think they tried to I think my name sounds like a car or common or something like that I don't know how long have you lived in Thailand in total do you have a tie nickname or a tie I don't think very long it was sort of three months straight but I mean that wasn't four words about a year and a half okay well it's funny because you see how it is with with YouTube and social media I associate you with Thailand but i don't really know like no like it's just the way it is like you see videos and you think of somebody has attached to Thailand but like I don't really know like how you think of Thailand or what what importance is had in your life if any you have a brother living in Vietnam I take it or no yeah yeah my brothers living everything he's been at the nearly three years he's gone back to Australia soon to get married and I don't know what he'll do after that well for me no politically and linguistically I had nothing to do with Vietnam I was really involved with Thailand Cambodia Laos and then to a lesser extent myanmar Sri Lanka that was the part of the world I lived in and in terms of Buddhism all the countries i just mentioned are part of the tera vaada Buddhist world so it's a different religion and a different written tradition different historical tradition and Vietnam is is part of the Mahayana Buddhist world so they are two different forms of Buddhism so I first lived in Hong Kong then in Taiwan's this is after i finish universe to add visited some places before that yeah yeah guess 2002 2003 so starting back then I had this long period where I never went back to Canada and then so let's started with Hong Kong Taiwan and then Thailand and it was at that point that I broke away from working in museums at a series of jobs and museums that let me save up a little bit of money and while I mentioned this you well I was in Thailand that was a golden period for travel because there was a corruption case against the the thai thai airways the the thai airplane company so for a brief period due to do two wonderful corruption the the flights were really really cheap within within thailand so I full-time job was kept me very busy but I would have like two days off work and I would actually buy an airplane ticket and go to somewhere like chiang mai chiang mai chiang rai some obscure town in the north east so when I had that job in Bangkok I actually was exploring the north I think I made one really brief trip also defend the capital city of Laos and then I thought okay my job with which was inside technically was inside taxon Shinawatra's government does the former prime minister of thailand very fraught time both emotionally and intellectually to be involved in Thai politics I met the guy he was basically the number two I did meet the the vice president of Tyler at that time but I also met sorry now I forget is it vice president or vice prime minister I forget it hey wait but you know when I got there tax and Shinawatra soon after he came into office he had actually massacred over 2,000 people in what was justified as a war on drugs very interesting episode in history the total body count was later raised over 3,000 and they did it in the old fashioned way of having a series of government meetings making up lists of who to be killed and killing people with no trials and no investigation and so on so as interesting the taxon government in some ways it was a period of hope for democracy and in some ways because he did that the minute after he came into office he carried out this massacre that never really got properly investigated or handled it blackened democracy discredited democracy and then we had a series of things where he shut down radio stations that criticized them and that sort of thing and then finally the coup d'etat so I just mention so it was relatively briefly in Bangkok working in the museum service for that government and getting better informed what was really going on in Thailand but already at that time what I really wanted was humanitarian work in the more poverty stricken area so I was looking at the border with Myanmar refugee camps looking at the border with cambodia border with Laos I really considered going the Myanmar route but I ended up going to Laos but anyway finally when the taxes and government fell I was in Laos and working for the Lao government and I got to see their reactions so today I just mentioned as an example there's a great website for a foundation called freedom house and freedom house gives a very rough and ready measurement of what is and what is not a democracy which is quite useful that I think it's on a five-point scale or six points I forget now but you know it's just you know it's like do they have elections or not is it possible for newspapers to criticize the government ah it's just a couple of simple points but the sad fact is that during my lifetime all of Southeast Asia has gotten less and less democratic including Thailand itself which no military dictatorship and it used to be a democracy even though it was democracy with with profound problems reason that wasn't Yeah right for you thank you yeah it's it's happened repeatedly during my lifetime and I'm not that old so yeah that whole region yes I don't know how old is he do you know anyway oh wait yeah yeah he did mention that he didn't mention that right I think they're not but anyway yeah so you know Thailand Cambodia Laos there was hope for democracy when I first got there and today is sadly I think you could say there is no hope so that stuff again I think I think any one whose interests in the region should be says to you if you want to be more than a tourist oh it's all this okay kajak all right can I guys welcome back to my channel you're watching me here Jason Vezina and i'm joined with go for it izel measured first name izel last name Ezard oh yeah pronounced abolish yell die why I'll link it down below yeah pardon my french at bala co hey i got a story back from from the thai fruit festival from the last one where they told me that someone sent me fan mail saying that there were group of people sitting around talking about my videos the videos that were at that time and they were excited about they said yeah you've got to check out this this channel uh a vast Lucille yes and the girl came away she wrote it down a BBA s like she thought it was an Arabic name like a bass it's a mistake anyone could makes you know so I'm talking to you because you tell me I don't know nice hearing from you Jason let me know so I've been watching a lot of idols videos on YouTube lightly and make some really good points to do its big anism with politics with you know just the world in general on how like you can see the veganism community shifting in certain ways and you know what we can do to improve the community actually get some good yeah action taken and just to see things improve in a more positive way so you know I was really inspired by your videos stuff that you've talked about i'll link it down below guys as i said before and you can check out videos he's done on other other people here in the community and you know topics politics and stuff it's nice to hear that from you i just say i don't take it for granted it reflects well on your character that you're capable of seeing my channel and responding to it positively are seeing it as constructive criticism more inspirational or what if you want to say well no I plenty of people just respond and say who the hell is I think he is so you know you know it says something about you you know you know and you know for your background you've been going through universities as you're just chatting briefly before you've gone through our high school into our universities and then I guess you've got the experience as to what you've studied you know what politics and languages and yeah wars and conflicts and bennington veganism as well Buddhism yeah I mean you know I think the reality is I would have become vegan anyway without ending that other stuff so like I can't say it's strictly related but yeah my first University diploma is in political science when I finished that diploma a lot of what I had to do involve the Buddhist world specifically the tera vaada Buddhist world in Southeast Asia but I always did modern politics as well as ancient history and that made me unique so like when I talk to other people about Buddhism people with PhDs people with an academic background they often had a very rose-colored glasses view of Buddhism and my idea of Buddhism included slavery included war wars both ancient and modern included torture questions with the ethics of torture are quite interesting in Buddhism I mean people frightened but now but you know after September 11th back in 2001 there was also a lot of debate about torture you know in Western politics you know like the Americans Americans using tortured zone you know to me all that all that stuff was interesting too so I was I was very unusual and being kind of a political realist interested in both ancient history and modern history I mean somewhat I before I was also somebody who was always motivated by a combination of humanitarian work humanitarian interests and research so I took all this together with my useless bachelor's degree in political science k get you a job and came to Southeast Asia and then since then I've been back to University a couple times my current university degree is in Asian Studies and if you follow my channel you'll get to see what happens next in my fascinating life so anything could happen from here how did a China to you know is where next Israel may be right Israel and you know I think I mentioned in my other video I applied for a great job in in Poland did you catch that sure well I don't know a charming town called ash wets have you heard of it or no yeah yeah anyway don't worry we'll skip over there it's cool okay yeah what happens next to my boring life you get to find it on my youtube channel boring life which we will you know fully delve into it take some of that knowledge from all right we're gonna talk women cool so with all that you know what pick me up from your channel and you know what I started watching is you know like the constant drama that keeps circulating through the vegan community and I guess I wanted to get your views on it you know from your experience having studied politics and how you see these things going and especially because you you got a bit of interest in you know dictatorships and learning how those things work especially with the car situation in Thailand where it's gone into a military dictatorship as you're saying yeah look I mean you know a video already made in the recent past had the title of drama but not meaningless drama and I think that's a really important point to make me tell you about this issue of drama of infighting within veganism I think there is a really deep difference between people who are disputing real issues that they really care about and people creating conflicts either because they think it will make them money make them popular bring them more views or for some other reason you know sometimes you know two guys have slept with the same woman and there's jealousy like they're fighting for a real reason but it's meaningless for the outside public you know I those things happen they can happen to high school that can happen YouTube the cabin social media so I'm not saying this with like a lack of sympathy for the human heart and the type of drama people get into but in that earlier video I mean I pointed out I I do really believe in debate being like a knife sharpening a knife you know both parties you know kind of become sharper we sharpen our own minds we tend to define the terms we use more precisely and more clearly like both sides whether or not they say oh gee I hadn't thought about it that way before even if I'm disagreeing with you part of the process is I figure out precisely in what way I disagree with you and I'm challenge to explain why I disagree with you so that's really a crucially important thing in politics of any kind of any scale from the smallest scale of like five people trying to organize a vegan magazine or a vegan charity up to you know a whole nation I give you a really surreal example you know during the cam boat in civil war the British government actually supported the Communist side including under Margaret Thatcher who was anti-communist she supported the Khmer Rouge and you can get this out of the the hansard is the official name for the record of parliamentary debates and there's some surreal quotes from Margaret Thatcher herself where murga Thatcher's asked for this look why why are we supporting that side and she says things so British well you know uh people say that Pol Pot is a bad guy and they killed a lot of people but you know I feel that that some people in the in the Khmer Rouge are perfectly reasonable and we can support that's kind of thing okay what does debate do when it's meaningful it draws someone else like that and says look I want you to justify why you believe what you believe what we should do now in the future or why things have in the past that is really positive so there's a sense in which I'm pro drama and I give examples of that in my channel all the time and I think that you know the types of debates we can get into are not always meaningless and shouldn't be regarded negatively and some people basically attack my channel by saying why would you critique other vegans at all instead of just critiquing meat-eaters so to me that's that's it to me that's a really self-defeating point of view and you know when we don't do that then we're not gonna question you what are we doing and why are we doing it and we're not going to evolve we're not going to progress we're not going to plan for the future and a lot of the conversations I have with vegans um in terms of sorry I should clarify vegans who are online vegans who are part of the digital generation they're not thinking about the next five years they may not be thinking about the next three months because one of the profound effects that running a blog or YouTube channel has on you is you tend to think about your next upload you know period like as you go to change and you know your views change and you grow it you're just trying to make things better people don't expect things to change just like we will discuss the other night you know they expect it to be like the news and you keep repeating yourself right right and I mean that's the thing there's a natural human tendency obviously to just be interested in your own well being your own private life and your own day-to-day operations but I mean for your own future you got a plan the next groceries you buy or whatever but it's interesting because I mean something like YouTube then brings this in the political sphere in a way it never happened before again so I mean like it's it's really easy for vegans to criticize petta People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals we all do it we tend to kind of keep scoring on pet out because they're not vegan enough and they you know they do some kind of stupid ad campaigns and we will get to look down on them and feel superior but I mean you think about pedo organizing a conference the type of long-term planning long-term relationship building that goes into that in a lot of ways they're they're putting us to shame or they're putting the Thai fruit festival in torreón right into shame and it's open to everybody writing pedda has these conferences and yes people so don't say stupid things you know pedda made a big deal out of trying to get a non leather seats into a luxury car they did that with BMW and so some other stuff it seems kind of embarrassing mm and you know they do this sexy yeah some some sub just seems embarrassing some of the stuff they do and they have you know the sexy girls in bikinis and some people find that offensive and some don't mosa but it's what you call a big tent in politics anyone can join a lot of people involved they employ people do you know any vegan organization that pays you a paycheck to a hundred people or a thousand people and they have and they have brought about real legal changes they have brought about changes to American national law that changed regulations on vivisection maybe again finding examples this and veganism are rare there has been just recently a couple months ago New Zealand passed some new laws on on animal rights actually so I mean there there's some progress you can look around the world and find examples of this yeah come through in Europe and stuff like that yeah yeah but anyway just say uh just the act of organizing those people and trying to get people together who really disagree is very different from what we tend to do on social media on YouTube etc which is people working in a totally isolated way and thinking in a tourney oh well we tend to in social media is working in a totally isolated way and in a totally short-term way or it's one person thinking about one blog and thinking about their next upload or maybe think about the next couple weeks yeah right well right well no I might I might say to you oh hey I know about this cool thing that's happening in Taiwan why don't you go there and film it and put in your blog like that's not evil it's just a natural way and then maybe you're thinking just about next three weeks but what's happening the next five years what's happening next ten years where any what you know those are the kind of questions I asked on my channel yeah sorry you know if we if we're talking about during Rider and freely and the tie through festival and I guess so you know what we're talking about it's just going more segregated and we're not sort of planning for five years ahead also looking at you know henna and my and our channels and stuff like that where you know things all of us as you're saying all of us has said stuff in the past and any of that can be mish mashed into a latest video to you know try and take down the next person but like you say it's like a really short term view to be looking at things like that and it's not expecting people to change and evolve and grow yeah yeah so it's it's one of those things I guess you know like what are we supposed to do you know is it looking at change your were you supposed to stay the same you know is there any what I think I mean I think that's one of the interesting things to ask I'm trying not to make every video much regret it but you know I mean what is it that's so threatening to freely about Hannah and what happened with her I think in a sense you're mentioning this issue of change well hannya used to endorse the raw till 4 diet and she changed based on experience now freely has seen this before with for example unnatural vegan and others right she's had a series of younger women a forget there's no point listing of all the names but quite a few younger women tried the diet believed in it for some period of time and then hit a breaking point and said to one extent or another this is misleading this is [ __ ] this doesn't work where some of the claims are false so I would guess that for freely it's shocking to have hannya added to that list now freely responds to that as if it's a betrayal haha to me that's already inherently ridiculous you know like and Haney has been very clear about why she said what she said and what her you know what our mandate is basically but I mean for freely also her competition in a sense is every younger good-looking woman on Instagram who eats meat that's the reality the world we live in if you're basing your claims for veganism on as as freely does that this is the only way to be slim this is the only way to have a tight waist which is what freely argues and that's why she attacks anyone who loses weight with any other method if you lose weight with any other method then you must be anorexic you must be water fasting you must be binging or purging or whatever she makes these really damning accusations because anyone else who loses weight with any other method because she believes and she wants others to believe that her method is the only method and the reality is it's not just Hanna who's a threat to that any model on Instagram who eats me is a threat to that because they're proving the opposite all the time there are all kinds of success this why i say this part of the hollowness of beauty i mean like you know free yourself also so you're representing that you're you're healthy you're muscular and you're vegan but you know there are a million good-looking men whether their body builders or actors or whatever who eat meat so ultimately it can never it can never rest on that basis alone there has to be something more to it sure that yeah i guess a lot of people also then attack the guys that look good with other things claims of steroids or restricting calories and whatnot and all that sort of thing wish you know little [ __ ] and i sort of died anyway from what the doctors have said i know we're probably getting into a little bit of a you know difficult to the territory is it is a restricted in some sense plus it's none of it's ever been proved and nor do any of the doctors support that the plant-based doctors yeah so that mean there are two interesting issues there one is the psychology of someone like freely or durianrider attacking anyone who looks good as being on steroids or being secretly bulimic or whatever you know i'm making these kinds of accusations um well durianrider now claims that he's a former anorexic I do not oh yeah it's on his channel actually I quote him in one of my videos where I have you know clips from him in my comments oh no you couldn't you can see that and I'll clinically been talking to anybody and I'm clinically recovered format so i can speak with personal experience know what but your reaction is telling because it's like well why didn't you mention that earlier it's it is a little bit weird it's like well you've talked about anorexia a lot and you never formally mentioned that you were diagnosed with anorexia and he claims he was later like discharged like he was pronounced cured of his anorexia so yeah it's it's a bit it's a bit spooky but if if we take him at his word that he really is an ex anorexic that he's our recovered former know he can video something like that yeah yeah it's in his own I'm quoting him I mean it's nobody it's not some rumor or someone else started he proclaimed this but if that's true then again it looks really like part of the anorexic mentality where it's like I'm pretty you're not pretty if you are pretty then I'm going to take you down and denounce you by saying that you're really on steroids this kind of really childish mentality that is typical of this this kind of anorexic mindset now anyway durianrider also claims he has other unspecified mental illnesses that you know resulted in him being given government benefits so it's hard to draw too many conclusions from that that's one side of it look on the science side which the second thing you you happen to mention there is not now and never has been any debate about the fact that if you eat more calories than you burn you'll gain weight you gain body fat with a very small threshold you can eat a little bit too much though King body fat there is a threshold like most things in biology you can overdo it just a little bit but if you do any more than you gain body fat and you know there is there durianrider freely have used every trick in the book to try to distract you from this and try to guilt trip you if you question their logic to make you feel guilty that you have a starvation mentality that you have a have a an anorexic mindset you know if you dare or to believe that eating fewer calories will help you to lose weight and so on and you know I mean meanwhile the entire medical establishment the entire history of science in the Western world confirms the opposite you know calories in versus calories out and uh right yeah well no I was also gonna say the actual bodybuilders who are kind of friends with freely interim rider who don't criticize them still if you compare their actual diet and actual diet advice to freely enter in writer it's totally incompatible that includes guys like Abdullah at the glucose network if you look at the reality but he says he's considered an ally or a friend of freely into a writer but the actual content of what he says about nutrition is is hostile to them it contradicts what they say he's using calories in calories out model yeah and he also says remember one of his telling things about psychology he just said you know I'm fat people lie how much they eat suggesting the less than they do and skinny people lie about how much they say more than that you like as a general pattern we all know that from Western culture the slim woman who says oh like a horse or the fat purse you say nothing so it haha you put the pieces together uh you know look so you mentioned a bunch of other reversing things this issue of just staying on message as opposed to growing and evolving YouTube great grinder look no making it public or note that I've seen anyway so you know correct me is like the the doctor originally started at 3,000 calories and I've been down to two and a half thousand calories and I think it's dan 2,100 calories now like yeah it's a thirty percent drop yes it's huge and yet they still use the number 3000 verbally and the other thing about that whenever you're looking at the number is whether it's the 95 5 number or the 3,000 calvary number what is that based on it's not based on experimental evidence it's not based on a cohort study like Nevada I know but I mean you know those kinds of numbers like 3,000 calories 5,000 calories if you look at the longest and cyclists like in the training for the Tour de France they do eat those kind and of course they don't gain weight because they're writing their you know they're doing intensive hundreds of kilometers of cycling so i really wonder if it just reflects during riders background with you know endurance athletics that he took the number 3000 but you yeah but i mean you know if you're just taking numbers out of thin air if the diet did work it would just be a coincidence because this is not based on research it's not based on anything it's not and it's not even really based on anecdotal experience you know like the type of anecdotal experience you have if you've been a counselor working with people you know in a rehabilitation program or something or sports medicine helping people recover you might have anecdotal experience like if you just stayed long term with about 20 patients say okay this is what I see working this is not you can come up with guidelines second but they don't they don't even have that Uli's really just made up at a thin air so you know and if the diet works for you it's a miracle and I'm happy and you're probably an endurance athlete because that's what the diets decide for so you know hey yeah leah is going to be so many people that are gonna say this and it and just have to dispute it at some point because oh right because of what we were saying you know that they're bright much mentality I haven't said that really politely but yeah if you don't agree with them that's it you know yeah well again I you know again I question that in any political organization that be a disaster but like let's say I have a reason why I really believe you shouldn't eat hummus maybe its scientific maybe it's anecdotal maybe it's based on my own experience why wouldn't I just come on YouTube and explain what the reason is why would I accuse you of having a case of con tinnitus of being an ungrateful [ __ ] of like why would I treat you why would I politically persecute you the way they've they've persecuted Kenya like just what is the point like either you have a real reason to be against eating hummus or you don't you know like like if you do okay let's hear it and maybe it's interesting and we can all move on our lives but um instead it is this kind of irrational hyper conform just persecution complex like somehow you're persecuting her if you want to eat beans or you have any criticism of Ted calories that diet itself yeah they also goes a lot deeper you know on their defense that it's they're claiming that you know it worked at some point and now the same doesn't work and you know and you're saying one thing that it was you know the videos the old times that she was doing you know more high carb but over time it didn't really work long-term you know it works in the beginning but eventually things start to change and you realize that just your regular vegan diet just you're just vegan diet is is what it's about well really hit her open that in that sense the way there are two two aspects to that so one is identical to unnatural vegan which is just yeah in the past you believe in the diet and now you don't mess simple you know you learning experience but a natural vegan with you that no other people that but the second is of chania being interested in this in terms of converting others to veganism so that's also the second is hania being interested in converting others to veganism and how it fits into the social reality of having a job or raising kids or being an old person and of saying no I like basically some are as many instead of saying no I don't want to present veganism as something that's only for elite athletes or something that requires stocking up on organic fruit and all this other stuff I want to present veganism as an attainable goal for mediocre middle class middle aged people right whether that's eating hummus or eating french fries you know i'm french fries are not great for your health but so what it's vegan I point out much cocaine is not good for your health but it is vegan I'm not encourage you to use cocaine but like the reality of how broad veganism is as opposed to trying to make this this kind of title tired of thing but I mean you know one of the disadvantages of youtube is that most of the leadership roles have gone to people who happen to be good-looking and happen to have a certain kind of personality I've said before on this channel normally it's the stand-up comedian personality it's someone who wants Fame who wants attention and it was also a little bit vulnerable where if they don't get that attention they're going to really respond or lash out so it's it's certain types of people have come on camera you know again it's a credit to him like I'm now friends with vegan cheetah but I said that at one point is a criticism of him was saying look this is the kind of guy [ __ ] who comes on YouTube and gets famous through social media he's gorgeous you know he's a bodybuilder he looks great and you could feel it across you know the camera that he you know he's oh he wants to be an entertainer oh you don't know okay wait wait but you know that's that was really his his MO back in those days you know he wants your attention he does a lot of live streaming now um you know he and and if he doesn't get it he gets hurt and upset you see that reaction to a lot of stand-up comics like that a lot of people entertainment um but I think a lot of people they had hopes for the type fruit festival to be something it never could be and I mean they had taught hopes for the Thai fruit festival to be something that it never it never could be and today I mean I feel like it's it's now going into the past tense well they've already renamed it the Thai bike festival and kicked everyone out and tried to make it a much more narrow event which was really really making explicit something that formerly was implicit that you aren't you aren't wanted there if you aren't exactly their their kind of person and and aren't a you know devoted follower though all their teachings but again compare that to people for the ethical treatment of animals it's so easy to heap scorn on pettah and say pedda is no good and whatever well you know five years from now who's still going to be standing what's really going to be important and what's happening in the in the vegan community or what will have any hope for veganism and again like here in Canada I despise the Green Party I heap scorn on the Green Party the Green Party is not vegan at all the Green Party wants to give more money to the dairy industry they want to support the rape and murder of cows and all this crap but it could change in the next five years and if you go to the Green Party you don't have to own a bicycle and be on strava you don't have to be an athlete you don't have to be beautiful you don't to be thin you don't have to subscribe to a ridiculous thing about how many calories you should eat to lose weight so there's at least some hope where there's some potential there as I say when I look at what those guys have done I see absolutely no hope an absolute no potential and I think I mean one of the good things about YouTube is that people feel my sincerity and saying that I'm not saying that to just be provocative that's really the conclusion of come to that's the way we want it to go because it's about abundance and giving people options as to how they want to pursue veganism you know it's not that we want the thing to go down I don't know a lot of people are out there wanting you know feeling highly to fail and I want your progress if you disappear but this right is not what it's about so look I don't disagree they're gonna go a step further there is such an irony here because I have so much in common with the people who hate me in Chiang Mai I did long-distance cycling I used to do more than a hundred kilometers a day in Thailand I first short period time you didn't go for more no no no no but it's not the meaning of life for me but I have that experience I rode my bike from VN chenda Chiang Mai one time at the entrance capital city of Laos so that was going west to the mountains I don't remember but yet going along the Mekong River really curvy road and up and down hills beautiful very memorable very hard trip anyway but you say sir I've done long-distance cycling I've lived in that part of Asia I've lived in Thailand and even I really have considered opening a small hotel at several points but I'm still like in the future it's possible do that it's possible I will live a life fundamentally what no but that's I was gonna say I'm not so different from Joe best you know in the near future I could be living in a situation not so different from Joe best in in a lot of ways fundamentally I should be an ally of these people we were natural friends not natural enemies we all want to support veganism and the abolition of animal agriculture of some kind you know there's so much common ground there and yet you see this hostility and infighting and you know again like there's always question i'm not i'm not opposed to compromise but what would any of us get from compromised hania the reason why the example penny is so significant is that hey yeah for my compromise with freely ordering writer I think this the significance of hangings experience the reason why so many people react what happened aha yeah is that hania shows that it's it's useless to compromise no matter how flattering you are or how polite you are what happened to hanging out will happen to you know already we already saw it happen to a whole bunch of other people but I mean I just say the example of chania is telling so so that no compromise is possible No so oh but no but I don't want them to fail sure like dial back to 2013 or something I would have absolutely have nothing could be better for me than if there was a cosmopolitan vegan movement based in Chiang Mai Thailand they'll be incredibly convenient for me I'm gonna if I'm going to move back to kunming now which is my plan I could easily visit and participate and be part of the Chiang Mai seen it would be be great for me same way of anyone in the world I I speak the language there I don't know I don't know no [ __ ] does anyone in the Chiang Mai scene actually speak Thai does anyone in the chain my scene actually speak Thai I don't know even yeah I don't know if even one example but I do so I mean for me sure I could have in theory I could have opened a hotel like Joe best I could have gotten involved in as heavily and in theory I still could if it wasn't you know self-destructing already sure this could have been something really positive in my life personally and I could have contributed to what they're trying to do / you know in theory having a guy like me around who speaks Thai and wants to help maybe I could help more than Joe best maybe not I'm you know but no but I'm just saying this is just illustrate like there there is no inevitable hostility here not you know like there's no force of nature that separates us and makes us enemies and again hannya proves it what you know and I think Henny will be fine if I came on and made a video about why I think you shouldn't eat hummus like you know this is the effect hummus has had in my life let's hit the background like a ghost oh we were just talking about hummus thank you I'm good orange juice a huge cool fringes no i don't i think it's secretly coffee I wish here we go i can show him there we go point proven that you know it's just to prove a point probably like doing Radha he says you take steroids we probably not taking real steroids but my point is if I came on and made a video for some reason I think you shouldn't eat hummus what you know hey Nia wouldn't turn around and attack me like everything oh that's weird that's interesting I mean I might be guys that were you shooting comments like it's not a it's a I've so you don't aim and what what can I tell you history is full of of these kinds of sad ironies why does one person end up in charge of a movement at a certain period of time I in some ways we all know the answer and you know and in some ways we all gotta move on yeah so yeah I guess the like we were just saying is well the differences between that side of things and the homeless side of things you know especially hangar and trailing doing on a case with it's like they felt it went a bit deeper like it was a and people are out there just to make money and that sort of thing out of life I guess not considering what they've you know where they've come from and what they continue to promote in regards to making money what they do on their channels you know how to eat how their diets have change without actually you know specifically mentioning that to people well right but I mean that that is complete [ __ ] I mean we know what no no but you so you have been accused of being only motivated by money at being corporate what corporation you uh no but um do you think you know Joe best isn't trying to make money I don't blame him he's running a small hotel like I don't I don't think that's evil he said but but also let's be clear what I didn't but what I did in Southeast Asia was charity okay when I was handing out sacks of rice to starving people that's charity that I'm not doing for money Joe best running a small hotel is not a charity it's a business and that's fine but only the enemies only the enemies of freely and durianrider are said to be motivated by money and their friends are not so I don't know you tell me Sean Lee is about as corporate as it gets but he's not accused of this you know you are right so I mean anyone they turn against they say is motivated by money and its corporate and it has no gratitude real vegan is aunty vegan it's a familiar act by now because they've done to so many people many people still being fooled by it hello okay you know you know you know I keep it real my honest answer is you know stupid it quickly incorrect one you keep it real stupidity is real man I mean stupidity Israel the number one question I get asked is why don't I want to have an open comment section on my channel what percentage of comments on these videos you know would you honestly say are stupid now like it's not even mean to say this stuff is due because when you acknowledge that it's stupid you're acknowledging that there aren't you know evil intentions there these people aren't really scheming to destroy anyone but yeah I mean you know stupidity is real stupidity is a is a powerful force on earth like gravity that keeps the earth turning around the Sun Wyatt why do people believe this crap because they're stupid because they're on an ego trip because they want to believe and that's an ugly side of human nature that sooner or later as we all grow up you get to know you get to know pretty well well sorry say one more thing with that like people people ask me why I don't have an open compensation and so on you know I don't respect everyone's opinion like let's stop pretending if I if I talk to you Jason and I say I do respect your opinion almost by definition that means there's someone else's opinion I don't respect so that's also a strange part of the internet game is like pretending we respect everyone's opinion pretending everyone is equal when you know the inequalities are really stark to bring this back to you guys in a weird way like I made that video talking about Israel you may or may not have seen it and this other vegan youtuber who made comments on Israel and one of the comments one of the fundamental things I just said was look like how many years have you spent studying the israel-palestine conflict or how many months or how many weeks because coming on YouTube and speaking at a complete ignorance were not all equal and I said to myself I could have chosen to become an expert in the israel-palestine conflict and I didn't I chose to study Cambodia and Laos and some other stuff I chose take another route so I have to have the humility to recognize my own ignorance right so ignorance is also a form of inequality right and I mean with all this stuff I am NOT an expert on Crohn's disease the guy who emailed me about that the medical student he knows a lot more than I do I think a lot of people do but I ended up being the guy to make that statement so you know yeah about durianrider saying that he has Crohn's disease and the implication that does he he says that sometimes if he gave an interview with the rich roll podcast I had a fan right in to warn me about that I think it's between the 15-minute mark in the 17 minute mark if anyone wants to check with during writers interview with retro yeah you cut out for just a second there anyway 15-minute mark the 17 minute mark in that durianrider says he never was medically diagnosed with Crohn's disease now from my perspective that's about as shocking and disturbing as claiming you have hiv/aids and then later revealing that you don't but it's more shocking when you consider in the old days of their act freely enduring writer were supporting the idea of being healed through your diet and of claiming not only that he had Crohn's disease that he was dyed into the back he was cured so now we're now we're into the same level of scam as like a faith healer you know the number one way to have a miracle healing for someone with cancer is to get a fake diagnosis in the first place if I get you falsely diagnosed with cancer and then I perform a magical ritual or I pray to God or whatever and then we'd go and do a scan and you don't have cancer the easiest way to do that is to fake it at step one is to falsely diagnosed you with cancer in the first place so yeah if you falsely claim you out of disease you never had now you're cured that's a scam of another kind if you falsely claimed to have a disease that you never had and then afterwards you claim you or cured then that's a scam of another kind but I mean look these are the people who've been in this leadership role in veganism I mean with diseases and stuff like that like when I was recalling that the thing that the reason why didn't you know sort of pick up when I know I didn't want to mention it too much more because it was usually related to veganism you know they've got these diseases and they have these obesity's and they had these mental issues but now veganism diet the vegan diet has cured them so I guess a lot of us me as well we just we just put that on the back burner and just say yeah that's fine you know if you want to make that up and say big it is imputed great that's a great promotional tool to get people to come over onto a vegan diet okay so that reason other it really interesting point me another vegan youtuber who I would consider famous wrote to me asking a question I won't say who was but another vegan youtuber wrote to me basically saying well even if this stuff is not true shouldn't we kind of support it because it promotes veganism now a lot of people believe that whether it's about the the healings of Matt you know magical healing of diseases or if it's about the psychological aspects or if it's about weight loss claims that we all know or impossible lose weight while eating 3,000 calories and getting zero exercise zero exercise with you guys Gunther you're getting game way pretty fast anyway the the laws of physics gonna catch up with you um you know so he was asking the same question you're alluding to if shouldn't we support it anyway because it spreads veganism I would parallel this to things I've said about Buddhism on my youtube channel already no I do not want to be part of a religion that is based on a lie I do not think there's any moral justification for basing your religion or accepting donations because almost all religions are based on donations these days including Buddhism on the basis of lying to people of saying I'm gonna do something I'm not going to do or I'm going to give you a magical amulet that's supposed to have effects it's not really going to have to to me there is almost no justification for that we can come up with a desert island situation but no I I don't want to be part of a religion based on a lie I don't want part of a political movement based on a lie I don't want to be part of a diet based on selling people lie so you know no that's a profound important ethical difference and we all claim we're better than the the meat industry right we all claim we're better than the lies by the egg industry or the dairy industry telling you the most well are we better live up to it prove it right it means telling the truth even when the truth is inconvenient here's an inconvenient truth getting enough calcium on a vegan diet is not easy really do the math for how much broccoli you have to eat to get enough calcium it's a damn lot of broccoli you know what well anyway if you if you're eating fruit that contains calcium or what have you it's possible I'm just saying I'm just saying many many people will not have a diet that really provides them with enough calcium of course you can take a pill to catch up but it's it is possible you look you a vegan diet right well selenium is a great example but if the veniam is not easy to get enough of unless you plan ahead unless you eat Brazil nuts or other specific foods so why lie to people if you tell people you don't need to worry about any nutritional deficiencies as long as you're eating a Whole Foods plant-based vegan diet that's quoting freely verbatim she said that a thousand times well it's not true so do you want to be better than the dairy industry or not do you want to be better than an industry that says eggs and bacon are part of a complete breakfast or not or do you want to lie and say your lies are justified by promoting veganism I don't I don't want to be part of a religion that's about living a lie or selling a liar boring life so that's I'd say that's that's a point of principle you know I had to uncover myself long time ago using using but as an example you could also use communism or some other political examples that have religious it we can go very much deeper through all those political examples and some other video but i think it's thanks so much to that man like it's given us h to talk about lots to think about i'm sure we'll do some more videos coming up really soon if that's cool with you cool great it's great talking you I say I mean I'm delighted to hear that you guys are inspired but I think you know the fundamental thing is for everyone who's crestfallen and disappointed with durianrider and freely we have an old fashioned saying in English don't for everyone he feels disappointed if everyone feels crestfallen with what's happened with freely and durianrider which includes you and hen yup we have an old fashioned saying in English don't chase replace don't chase after them replace them you want something better than the Thai food festival I do to make it happen anyone can rent a room anyone can start a festival you can start it in Haifa in Israel you could start it in Malaysia you could start you know but I mean you know the potential is there the reason why there was so much interest drawn to this meaningless festival where they didn't do anything interesting they rode their bicycles up and down the hill they gave their QA yeah no I know I know but my right but my point is the international interest in it the level of interest too focused on it reflects the fact that there's an appetite for this around the world there are people who want this kind of festival to be a focus for hope social change political organization sure dietary advice also but like the fact that there are people in Germany and America and Australia all interested in this most of these people had never heard of Chiang Mai before Chiang Mai is not that famous you know Thailand made me feel not Chiang Mai you know the fact that this event took on such importance of the Internet in just a few years with all the in common and just how kind of boring the festival is at shows that there's potential there and I think I think a lot of people are interested in the positive example of what's happening in Israel that Israel has just in the last 10 years created a vegan culture out of nothing I think I mean I think you could have a really interesting festival there and other people seeing this around the world maybe you've got the the potential you know as I say don't chase replace whatever it is it's frustrated you or disappointed you whatever this didn't live up to really think about the resources it would take to do something better I think it's literally an attainable goal for you and Hannah you know if we start thinking long term we start thinking about who we can cooperate with and you know it definitely has to be like a big cooperation between many people across different that's what we want to do Israel Highland us Pastrana right right but on the other hand um you know Joe best in Chiang Mai managed just reserve a bunch of rooms make something happens does so it doesn't take a genius it doesn't take a lot of people it doesn't take a lot of money you know you you know so it's it's attainable that's what's say and there really is you can see I mean so many people with goodwill wanted this thing to work and wanted slim pause to come out of it despite all the problems with that year after year and I think you see that with a lot of failed vegan initiatives you know the woodstock fruit festival was a disaster who's all this goodwill yeah let's not talk about it but you know um you know like there is this there is this pent-up demand and again that reflects the failure of other institutions the failure of petta the failure of the Green Party you know the failure of other institutions people are looking around for a new outlet for a new a new focus point to to bring this together and make something positive happen as possible I deposited night yeah great talking to Jason thanks so much man and this before you got guys don't shake it idles channel the link is down below but wicked videos about a show a ballast yell they'll find it thanks next year in Israel