The Magic of Jordan Peterson: a Conversation with Troy Parfitt.

i'm in conversation with an author named
troy parfet so troy has a new book and i'll be honestly troy i couldn't get the date of publication for this book is this book only a few months old or is it a few years old you seem to have a brand new book but i don't know quite when it came out dealing with the uh intellectual oddities of jordan peterson we'll say uh to be put when did the book come out right uh the book came out on december 21st 2020 but if you buy the book i dated it ahead a few days so it says publication copyright 2021 which is a kind of uh trade practice so that's interesting and the book is referred to as volume one so i presume having seen your youtube channel i take you of a volume two that's going to deal with jordan peterson's more recent work an assessment of i mean correct me if i'm wrong but i assume you're now going to go after um peterson's uh beyond order yes um yeah that's something like that but the the um the framework and most of the content for volume two was already written before beyond order came out so um i'll probably just be dealing with beyond order in one section called beyond order okay i'm surprised just because on your youtube channel it did seem to me that you had done an in-depth reading of beyond order within days of that book being published so you had quick turnaround on applying your analysis of peterson's work to his to his new book when he came out just a few months ago yeah yeah and incredibly i knew that i'd find um plagiarism in the book and i knew who from and sure enough what a shock uh you know so the the pattern continues right in fact and in fact it's recycled plagiarism in many instances so he um so well let's introduce the audience to this one one step at a time i'm going to start i'm going to start the shower into the pool now i just say to to describe myself as a jordan peterson skeptic would be an understatement but that skepticism can lead off in several different possible directions uh one view of dr peter peterson would be that he is a totally normal somewhat stupid uh young canadian man who grew up reading books such as aleister crowley and especially the necronomicon written by simon books that were hit books popular books in the decade of the 1980s and and the late 1970s that he was a young man who got interested in the philosophy of carl jung and what could be frankly called a pulp fiction occultism yes because a book like the necronomicon that was a mainstream mass-market trade paperback now you know so to say this you have gone through the corpus the small corpus of of dr pearson's published work and the much larger corpus of his youtube videos uh you had a level of self-discipline i have never had to go through hours and hours of this guy's aimless videos and i think you've picked out quite correctly you know this this series of influences what can you tell me i mean okay why don't i put this in a more uh autobiographical frame did you ever read the necronomicon or did you have to read this kind of material because of doctrine were you encountering this stuff for the first time because of dr pierson it's funny that you should ask when i was 14 i went through you know when you're a kid you try on different phases you know and i went to this phase for i think it was about half a year where i was listening to heavy metal music where i found a kind of funny cap like one of the guys in ac dc and i was playing um dungeons and dragons and i bought the necronomicon at the cole's bookstore and hid it from my parents you know so they wouldn't see it wow so this is this is a classic example of dungeons and dragons leading to satanism so this is what your church pastor warned you about go on and uh anyway but i i read like a couple of chapters i didn't get it i didn't i didn't like it i changed i i stopped playing dungeons and dragons like i i hid the book or threw it away i uh whatever it was under the next phase i think it was the beatles next and i was like kind of where i was wearing tie dyes and things like this so uh you know it didn't stick so and when you started reading jordan pearson because i mean i i it is very hard just to read that one that one chapter about lobsters were you getting the feeling you know when you first started this that that some of his use of mythology that this really was bringing back to you the memory of the necronomicon and aleister crowley and no yeah yeah oh okay for me that might be a first impression of him the use he makes of history and mythology and symbolism but go on yeah i was walking around this neighborhood listening to all these with a notebook listening to him going on evening walks and listening to his lectures and i kept and then i i finally realized like hold on mardik stuff he was like it cracks me up because you can also tell he's someone who has done absolutely zero research on martial containment and middle eastern asian was around the time challenges um that was around the time that he had just interviewed with kathy newman from channel 4 news right and all of his fans were saying yeah he really stuck it to that woman you know he told her what was what and i and when i written and i realized that people like kathy newman are they're really suspicious like something's wrong with this guy but they can't quite figure out what what and here i am sitting with a copy of the necronomicon and looking at peterson's maps of meaning thinking that's plagiarized almost verbatim right it's plagiarized good god i'm dealing with an adult child well okay okay so let me push back in that uh just a little bit though so when when you say plagiarized i don't think you use the word in the same way other people would i mean so i mean when i look at so his book contains numerous parallelisms and comparisons sometimes with precise wording being verbatim the same and look it does establish what has intellectually influenced peterson there's no doubt about that but you know this sounds like a very immature slightly insane daughtering elderly drug addict incoherently regurgitating things that he read in the necronomicon and in aleister crowley but i mean i think for many people they'd say oh well this isn't really plagiarism yeah okay it's wholesale academic fraud so my background i have a background in linguistics so that i think that um uh specifically social linguistics i think that that helped lend to being able to figure out that this is more than influence this is more than social construction you know like when i write like i before i wrote about peterson i wrote other books other people's styles influenced me but i mentioned you know like the way they kind of turn a sentence or turn a phrase or something but i would i would say you know hear the people that i like hit him like i've kind of borrowed from their register or something like that but it's not but i'm not sitting down with their book open beside me and copying out the sentence and then just changing a couple of words right that you know and that's what peterson is doing in it's it's bananas and he you know he talks about how much he dislikes writing right and um and how he how he just hates it well i i don't i think that in addition to all of his other problems like plagiarizing from the occult he can't and he can't write and you never hear anyone say not even his fans you know you know right oh okay so i'm just going to show you though i'm going to use the chapter about um lobsters as an example uh there's certainly certainly many of jordan peterson's fans or even most of them will admit that the chapter on lobsters is badly written so that's one view of it is that it's badly written and one explanation for why it's badly written would be that he's an idiot or he's insane there are many many explanations for bad writing there's no this doesn't just lend itself to one possible analysis no no wait another analysis of the lobster chapter is that it is full of very carefully constructed hidden meanings now i would think so maybe i don't know where you are in the spectrum maybe you're in the middle maybe because just given what you said maybe you think it's a mix of bad writing carefully constructed uh uh you know imagery which you know frankly to some extent it has an occult purpose in the same way that aleister crowley's writing has an occult purpose or the necronomic with this kind of pulp paperback uh satanism frankly anyway so where do you stand on the spectrum well i i would agree that it has to do with numerous factors yeah he lacks talent to write he's of course guided by uh he's mentally insane so i think that there are many lenses through which we can view people but first and foremost we ought to see him as a a lunatic i think and um so there's there's that and i agree with you there go on yeah yeah it's a cultic and he's um you know the idea of the lobster uh almost certainly comes from the occult uh the crab is uh aleister crowley wrote about lobsters and crabs and and the rising of the lobster and whatever else and and peterson has sort of imitated his language on lobsters you wouldn't see that in volume one that'll be in volume two so so i've so i've documented over well over 500 examples of him plagiarizing aleister crowley so in his new book beyond order yeah he doesn't wait he doesn't plagiarize adolf hitler so much that's my main claim that he's plagiarizing hitler right uh he he's reverted to um mostly to plagiarizing from al master crowley i would say second is that book you mentioned that the necronomicon and then it's hitler but it's much more covert than usual the particular plagiarism is quite apparent and 12 rules for life and also maps of meaning and massive meaning is filled with plagiarism as well and i would say mostly from aleister crowley but in order in order it goes so again i'm just going to challenge you so i've already i've already admitted that i share the analytical view that he's fundamentally um an insane person and you know i just say though it is then very difficult to pin down any analysis any analysis of someone's incoherencies or intentions once we've admitted that we think that a lot of this is insane that there is no you know so this is written with no clear purpose with no clear plan rather than interpreting it as sort of brilliantly and intentionally manipulating the audience he has a plan like he's still even though he is i i believe so i argue in the book that he has schizophrenia yes he's been diagnosed with it i just want to know for the audience so this is not slander he he himself has admitted and his daughter admitted that he has been diagnosed as confronted go on yeah yes eventually and then she also denied it so so a doctor diagnosed him with it and then but i think well she claimed that she disagrees that's different from denying that so she admits it happens she just doesn't like the diagnosis that's different if if someone diagnoses me and says that i'm diabetic but i disagree that's different from denying that i was ever diagnosed as having diabetes okay let's keep it straight both of them both father and daughter have stated on the record that he has been diagnosed as schizophrenic uh by more than one medical professional they got a second opinion and so on they talked through that thing and we said that this was just a digression you were saying you do primarily see him as as uh peterson there are a million digression so that's that's um so that's the i think that's the main lens that we that we ought to view him as is he schizophrenic now when i call him a limited i just want to be clear that i'm not um denigrating uh other people with schizophrenia or making just mental illness i just dislike him so intently that i'm making an exception so hashtag not all schizophrenics not all not all schizophrenics are as bad as jordan this is true so look uh i'm just gonna say you know i can uh normalize rather than abnormalize uh peterson's experience however so as i've already alluded to it and many people in the audience may not be old enough to remember when this stuff was mainstream i am you and i are about the same age troy um not to not to dox you but you and i are about this image i can remember a time when books like the necronomicon were mainstream on store shelves i can remember when that whole school of 1970s jungian reinterpretation of mythology was very mainstream and it was powerfully linked to people experimenting with lsd and other minor hallucinogenic drugs magic mushrooms uh you know the kind of valorization of the ego death and the hallucinatory trip we're feeling something all of those those things were quite mainstream in white english speaking canada which is where you know george so just say as much as we can kind of abnormalize him and treat him as an outlier or an extraordinary person i think there are a lot of cranky old men from his generation who were influenced by many of the same sources especially people with phds people like kathy newman didn't understand you know something's wrong with you meanwhile i'm looking at the necronomicon going this guy's he's plagiarized this book you know he's like uh he took too many drugs and he read too many books by the occult that's a that's a very uh from the occult from alastair crowley that's a very good way so so your analysis is like it's like uh light years ahead of i have some advantages over the average they keep room like for example in beyond order they kept referring to what he wrote it as mythology right he cites a book about the occult and and talks about her medicism and the the aleister crowley's religion was the hermetic order of the golden dawn influenced by her medicine which was a strain of the occult i mean it's right there in the text he writes about the occult and maps of meaning that they never mentioned this and if you and if you tell anyone this look why is he writing about the occult in these so-called health books and why why does he say flattering things about their culture explain what he learned about the occult the response you'll get is no he doesn't right right yeah it's right it's on page 17. i couldn't no i don't want to see it i just know that let me quote your book this is from within the first within the first 20 pages to quote the book quote why did the doctor i.e why did dr jordan peterson extol the reliability of magic mushrooms or label hallucinogens quote unquote amazing why did he insist that the sole way to quit smoking was having a mystical experience induced by these same magic mushrooms why did he publish a psychedelic video promoting magic mushrooms ayahuasca dmt and ecstasy also known as mdma now again especially given the predominantly conservative predominantly christian public he is preaching to yeah that this is hidden in plain sight yeah have you so just given that you've read so much of his work and you've also seen all the videos though have you ever seen him admitting to using these drugs himself okay you they're talking about mushrooms or something like that and then the guy asks him you know that kind of like a stoner voice have you ever taken these or something yeah and the christianity i mean that his interpretation of christ is not right as for the bible uh someone should have picked up is he talking about like a like a gnostic interpretation like a mystical interpretation of christ i mean i'm uh i haven't even read the bible in full but even i know that that's not christ from that that's not christ from the bible right well yes i think too i mean he reflects a tradition that involves and includes aleister crowley that involves and includes a pre-nazi figure like arthur schopenhauer um that involves and includes nietzsche who is in some ways derivative of schopenhauer of a very dangerous ambivalence towards christianity and and christ where you know there's this philosophy of the will you know and then how whether or not that should destroy christianity which you know even if you read hitler directly sometimes that's what hitler is saying is that his movement is anti-christian or if it should in some sense embrace the inner essence of christianity but transcend or discard other elements you know the this yeah so i'd say he is um a kind of consistent proponent of that view i think he has a lot in common with aleister crowley and frankly a whole lot of me a whole lot of mediocre minds who were inspired by carl young yeah yeah that's so peterson is he most of his ideas are not his own yes most of his ideas are copied from other people and one of his big ideas is that see what the thing that he likes one of the things that he likes about crowley is that his ideas were very similar to he got them from nietzsche and they're very similar to that of hitler the the post um the post uh judeo um judeo-christian world where you can unleash your inner demon and we don't have to live by the stultifying laws that have been handed down to us through the bible and of course it's this is all delusion anyway because i don't think that we are so influenced by um the morals in the bible like i've been reading the um the old testament recently and i don't see how it's very more i don't see how it's very moral and um i rejected christianity when i was quite young i think i think and even in israel every even in israel very few people actually live their lives according to the old testament there's there are tiny minority sects within judaism that actually live by the writ of the old testament and and they do things like sacrificing goats and sheep they actually carry out those rituals and they're regarded as insane or eccentric but to us now that looks satanic these blood rights of you know they they sacrifice the animal and daub the blood on each other's foreheads and so on that's in the bible you know but yeah yeah yeah yeah so you know there's another question there the gap between what we think of as christian culture and actual christianity in the bible which includes you know sex slavery and uh genocide and all kinds of other things that christians presume they're against to presume their religion sorry go on now i don't know if i into what it's not interrupted either this this side of jordan peterson though um what was so one of my few criticisms of of your book and maybe in volume 2 you'll see different or maybe you'll make a youtube video too because i know youtube on like a book you can do in bits and pieces at any time i don't like what you do with narcissism and peterson so for those in the audience don't know there's narcissism as a cultural concept and then there's the specific diagnosis of npd narcissistic personal disorder many of the same so many of the same shall we say manic episodes or examples of madness or at least eccentricity in jordan peterson's writing and his conduct on youtube and so on uh many of them can be interpreted as indicating his fragility rather than his egomania do you see what i'm saying like rather than indicating narcissism or npd it can be a sense of dejected worthlessness that he's out here so i just want to suggest that you very broadly and ask if you've ever had that sense that you know that there is a more fragile uh jordan peterson that emerged this in some ways that that could be linked to carl jung's song yeah well this is certainly a very fragile peterson behind the false persona right of the father strong father figure he is a child um and that's what a narcissist is they're like uh it's like arrested development and actually what he's been doing although i haven't told anyone this so far and i i didn't write about it in volume one is that what he's actually doing is it's he's giving a running confessional on how he was traumatized as a child if you listen carefully uh to what he's saying he he talks about his father and then he'll talk about adolf hitler like he's confused too and he talks about schizophrenia and living living growing up under a domineering parent and so on and i think that when he was young he was i think he was mentally ill when he was young and i think that his father was possibly also mentally ill and um and that that runs in the family as he has said and that uh and that he was mistreated and and i think that what everything he's trying to do is to try to prove his worth to his biological father in some really warped and twisted ways and he has indeed he has indeed stated that quite literally as part of his philosophy that the meaning of your philosophy is to go and rescue your dead father from hell is to go into the mouth of a whale and rescue this issue of redeeming one's relationship with one's father beyond the grave is both literally and symbolically part of the flaws of georgia god just just to include the audience if they haven't wasted their time on this stuff as much as i have yeah when he talks about redeeming his father this is going to sound strange to your listeners if they haven't read the book or if they're not familiar with what i'm talking about but it's he's speaking in code he what he mean you don't wake up every day and say redeem the father you know like what what do you mean by that but this is one of the questions that no one ever asks who's the father why should we redeem it redeem him for what critical questions don't exist in the peterson sphere and journalists certainly aren't helping and um what he means is that uh you have to redeem the the figure of the fatherland adolf hitler that that's what he means by that he and um and he's he calls god the father the the jovial father of the race the great father the also great father so so when he says we need to rejuvenate redeem or rejuvenate the father this is like we need to rejuvenate the right can he talks about rejuvenation of the state we need to rejuvenate this state he's not political mind you but we need to rejuvenate the state and hitler talked about the need to rejuvenate the reich and said we will we national socialists will rejuvenate the world so this is this is crypto fascism right a number of so a number of claims there are a number of claims in this book he's that he's plagiarizing hitler he's plagiarizing chronic he's plagiarizing others like people you've mentioned nietzsche and young and he's also a crypto fascist and he's almost certainly schizophrenic and yeah yes so no no i'm happy could contribute as much as you want the conversation i was going to say on this issue of self-loathing a lot of unsophisticated people interpret what he says about dominance and dominance hierarchies and i think this will inevitably bring us back to questions about fascism and so on they interpret this as him proclaiming his own strength and his own dominance but when i look at that whether it's what he says in lectures or in the actual chapter about lobsters and dominance hierarchies and jordan peterson's own book what seems to me to be going on there is he's expressing his own self-loathing his own lack of self-esteem that he considers himself and his daughter to be people and of course completely completely scientifically false when a motorcycle has no scientific validity and it couldn't possibly have scientifically but you know he felt that he and his daughter both were born born with low serotonin levels and he repeatedly and unscientifically expresses that somehow the dominance hierarchy is about who has the most serotonin which um crayfish or which lobster has the most serotonin in its brain and that that actually what he's saying is that he feels that he and his daughter and you make a very point possibly his own father also perhaps goes back another generation as well as going forward another generation that they were born to be at the bottom of the dominance hierarchy that they are the losers that they are the ones as he says quite openly teetering on the edge of of suicide i mean he talks about just waking up in the morning and he again he attributes this to various mysterious ailments that don't exist and his daughter also has this series of mysterious ailments that do not really exist but his being miserable fragile breaking down weeping in public for ridiculous reasons all the time you know the the the hyper fragile jordan peterson and how that fits into the idea of the dominance harkey i i just say this this madness is susceptible to more than one analysis or interpretation for sure everything is i um i would say that i don't i think when he does the water works it it's it's a show i don't think that i don't think that the um the crying is real the self-loathing i think is probably um uh a sign of possibly vulnerable narcissism and he inflates his ego so much too to try to you know be the super kind of like a superman or something like that um yeah as for the as for the the dominance hierarchy it is a metaphorical or aspirational zone and um and you're supposed to it is ten levels he has said and his lobsters are supposed to attend uh uh to uh ascend the ten levels and at the top of the at the top of the dominance hierarchy there's the all-seeing eye of horus which of course was the figurehead of aleister crowley's religion nobody ever points this out as being strange but when i say when i say hello he's he's actually plagiarizing aleister crowley people call me strange look i'm not the one with a um a giant cult who's um the central paradigm is which is an egyptian pyramid over which there floats a magical eye i don't tell people you need to be like the eye be like the eye of hoarders of course pay attention pay attention to problems that yes what what is it that that's absolute madness i mean if i had a professor who started talking about the all-seeing eye of horus in that way in class i'd be straight out the door to the registrar's office and asking for my money back lunatic in the classroom what the hell is this you know like it it it's just it's just that the whole story is just so exciting well i'd also just digress here in case any of my listeners think that this material is interesting to read um nothing could be more boring than the philosophy of alistar coley like it's incredibly boring and pointless and i would say it's especially boring and pointless if you are a young man growing up in white english speaking canada which is what jordan peterson was trying to change your own life for the better like trying to use it as something like a a self-help book now i could say to you also i mean just to keep it on peterson rather than crowley this philosophy of being like the eye of horus how could you possibly apply this what what do you what do you mean how can you say this is self-improvement well yes only now do i realize my mistake was i wasn't being enough like the eye of horus you know grocery store but i forgot to bring my shopping bags what would horace do you read read all the ingredients on every item you buy at the grocery store be like the eye of horus this is not a i mean there are slogans like look i'm not a fan of self-help literature i'm really not but you can look at self-help books written by people where they're giving you some kind of advice you could apply to your education or your finances or something you know i but yes jordan peterson's advice it has this kind of radical irrelevance to modern life that again i see it in uh i see in crowley and that that whole tradition coming out of uh well crowley crowley by the way he's born in the same year as carl young um you can't really they were more or less simultaneous uh famous figures yeah so anyway but yeah on the level of having read newspaper articles about him because crowley currently managed to make himself notorious and that's the only reason anyone knows his books today british press that's right do you see so let me just ask you this before we get into kind of the the adolf hitler side of it expressly um with this kind of material about the snake eating the snake with the eye of horus and so on do you think that the final point of his philosophy is that man himself should become god which is a theory all the fascists played with they rarely committed to and and crowley and nietzsche were interested in this peterson's always yeah us and we need to there's this idea that we should take that that notion under ourselves it's a hell of an idea he says that we need to become divine ourselves i mean it's just an idea i'm not espousing that idea i'm just saying there's this idea he just floats these ideas and that's that's what he means yeah so that we need to become godlike so do you think do you think he's really kind of rolling that out slowly as the point of his philosophy or do you think he is just the world's most inarticulate advocate for it because yes that i would agree if that's the point it's it's uh it's baffling uh rather than overt and direct yeah yeah and also people don't ask questions like so and then he has said you know like he endorses the the the superman who says nice things about me right and then in another video he said that the nazis appropriated the idea of a superman and it's it's a concept they really pulled off this is praise he's commending them for pulling off this idea of the superman and then then later he talks about the you know the idea of the ubermensch without the nazi context but you're supposed to put it together oh yes over here he said that about the superman in connection with the nazis our own we ought to become and we could become god like we could become like an ubermensch but people don't make these elementary connections i don't really i don't understand why not and that may sound like simplistic thinking like i'm just making a simple connection that's not there well no no no no so what the audience does understand is as as simplistic as it may sound for troy to make these comparisons you have to understand the incredibly simplistic use of historical facts and mythology that are made by followers of carl jung and jordan peterson may be an extraordinary example that in some ways but in many ways he is a dismally ordinary example you know i just mentioned to you um because you may not know it no you know what i never had the experience jordan peterson had of coming home drunk one night and sitting down with a pen and paper and drawing a picture of jesus christ wrapped in a giant snake and deciding that i was going to take on you know that kind of jungian symbolism really never did it for me christ was on the cross and the bird i think it's horrors i think was pecking the eyes out of christ's head or something like that and again it's to signify the end of the the you know stultifying jewish era the epoch yes where we can all become devils and create the new eon or third third reich and this is this is the core belief of what peterson thinks but again journalists would never ever think of that who who could have such beliefs this is why journalists are like you see like um some pretty intelligent people like steven sacher from the bbc and and wendy messley from the the cbc they're getting really close it's they can they know he's a fascist they know something is wrong but what is it that he's hiding and they don't know and that's what it is it's the track it all comes from those trashy paper book that uh the occultic paperbacks and he said he says in 12 rules for life he grew he hung out with the bad kids now you're canadian i'm canadian think about what the bad kids would be like in fairview alberta they played dungeons and dragons and they read the necronomicon and they were into hp lovecraft he probably later got into carl young or more erudite thing but probably started with lovecraft and necronomicon this kind of thing yeah maybe space aliens yeah yes yes yes right yeah and a bunch of borderline criminals who were his friends and so on and his best friend who he compared to adolf hitler he said that his best friend chris he calls him his real name is robert dernan uh or richard durbin um at harvard he talked about his friend he didn't say his name he said he was just like hitler but he didn't have the opportunity to murder people but if he'd had the chance he would have you know like like hitler did and so on and so he's that's his best friend someone who's like adolf hitler right well that's that's how peterson sees his best friend i doubt that you or i would probably we would both see this guy as a very mediocre self-indulgent undergraduate student i'm just saying but but this is how pete peterson clothes him in greatness because peterson makes everyone into a hero or a villain this way yeah i would just say you know there's there's the question of establishing the particular source material peterson is working from which your book goes a long way towards my opinion but there's also the kind of overall methodology of his and you know i'll just give you an example this may interest you in its particulars but my point is here more more general with how these people think and when i say these people i mean a certain generation who grew up with psychedelic drugs and the philosophy of carl young and a few other of these accessible readily accessible sources you know um aleister crowley was personal friends with ananda mehta so i i am assuming you didn't so i'm giving you i'm giving you an interesting wrinkle ananda mezza was a white englishman who at that time flew i stay flew he probably took a boat now they think about it anyway he one way or another he transported himself to southeast asia and became one of the first white men to ever become a theravada buddhist monk he ordained and he became a very activist vocal leader who published books so he didn't just become a monk and go and live in a cave he presented a view that in the future europe should itself become buddhist should convert to buddhism but before that he was a member of the order of the golden dawn and was close personal friends yeah yeah and he was he was perceived as the most talented or charismatic of the younger members i think he was more favored than than crowley and he went on to be a charismatic and successful uh buddhism interesting footnote here about how reality worked why did he go to southeast asia in the first place and then get tempted to leave behind occultism for for buddhism uh it was his health he uh he had respiratory problems and as many people said there were no cures for this problem he went out to live in the tropics and once he was there more than the climate influenced him but this is my point here's what you know here's what happened the philosophy of thalema so thalema and thalemism is the quote-unquote philosophy of elsewhere it's my preferred pronunciation yes so thilima can also be found on the internet but yes uh but philema rhymes with dilemma anyway what he did was he directly took buddhism as interpreted by his personal friend because he didn't actually do any research none of these people actually researched ancient egypt none of them researched greece or rome you know what i mean this is this incredibly facile um you know it would be like someone looking at google image search today while high on mushrooms and lsd like that's the level of research these guys did but you know what else to crowley did was he took uh the idea of buddhist philosophy from this monk who spoke english and endometria and he basically deleted all of the stuff about selflessness and replaced it with selfishness that's the kind of intervention he plays instead of yeah instead of having no soul and no self it's about you this man becomes god you are the higher self you are the superman you take world religions and you twist and warp their you you take the the even the good parts of all those religions because they all do have some morality in them somewhere it's it's really the opposite of anthropology like with anthropology you look at a myth whether it's indigenous people of canada like the creed the ojibwe the inuit or you look at people in india or china you look at it and you say what did it mean to these people in this historical context in this culture what's the authentic real meaning in these people in their lives right and very often like as with the um misinterpretation of the dow to jing it's historical significance and the meaning of that text in chinese culture is totally different from what what europeans did with it why europeans totally reinvented this text yeah yeah that's why i'm mentioning it aleister crowley himself as an example oh and aleister crowley you know his knowledge of uh his knowledge of classical chinese i mean you know he couldn't read chinese any more than he could read ancient egyptian i mean he couldn't read egyptian there's no no actually i just say but what peterson is doing it is the same as crowley and it's the same as carl jung which is that he's just willing to in this hallucinatory state just quote oh yeah the eye of horus and you know anything from any culture oh and marduk and tim and it all means whatever he wants it to mean and he will say yeah peterson does this constantly this is what jordan peterson is doing he'll just pick and choose and he will insist to you that i think it is ultimately through his own drug-induced experience he'll insist you that what he is saying in the 21st century about marduk about horus or about jesus christ or about the buddha that it's it's the truth that that has been true since before human beings had writing it's not just something he made up of wow look i know do you want do you want to come into that but that's in terms of the methodology of jordan peterson that's what i see and i see him treating adolf hitler the same way he's willing to loosely reinterpret and appropriate ancient gods texts written in languages you can't understand so on and so forth well it's funny that you mentioned hitler in association with those ancient gods because yeah i i take your point that peterson is doing what was so popular in the 70s and so on it's just a recycling of that there's always the kind of market for people who and and i agree that with you that people can take whatever interpretation they want away from it because it doesn't really mean much but you know be like horus pay attention like horse what does that mean but the thing is is that peterson actually has very specific meanings that i unpack in the right the book and those those gods actually stand for real people historical figures they're they're uh standings for they symbolize actual people for example marduk marticus is standing for hitler as strange as that sound so i have not finished the book just full disclosure the audience no no but great okay i'll be interested to see that when you get to it and it's easy to figure it out because when he talks about marduk he he lists uh he uses a number of adjectives and speaks in a certain way he's the god of speech he could see everything going on and whatever he he and then when he talks about hitler he always talks about how he was such a great speaker and he was he had such good vision and all this stuff and he uses that you know you can just make a list of the here's how he describes marduk here how he describes hitler obviously mark is a stand-in mark's at the top of the dominance hierarchy he has said hitler is at the top of the dominance hierarchy all right so i just pushed you this way there's a question it is very clear that jordan peterson has no sincere interest in the real history of communism it's very clear that he has no sincere no sincere interest in the history of fascism sorry i'll just finish because i'm just doing these things before it's clear that he has no sincere interest in the history of communism no sincere interest in history of fascism he obviously has no sincere interest in the history of ancient near eastern religions you know it's not you know neither egypt nor um ancient samarkand or anywhere else i mean he's he's no sincere research but i'm putting what is his sincere interest i mean you can take that in any direction you want but given that he's put in this work to gather together this strange bird's nest of seemingly random you know mythological references and frankly gross distortions of 20th century history what do you think his interest is so you you all right so you really think he's he okay so you really think he is actually a classical anti-semitic neo-nazi okay and he's an occultist but to me those one doesn't prove the other i mean that to me sorry i'm not i'm not saying again i haven't finished your reading your book i'll be interested to see if you prove the case but to me it seems the more we admit that he's insane the more we admit that he's a drug drug addict and doesn't know what he's doing then the harder it is to prove that he has an objective like that like he's actually trying to revive something like that he has multiple objectives basically he's on a mission to harm so so and he can do that in very subtle ways by just filling up people's minds with nonsense like wasting students time i mean imagine you think about it euro imagine a female student from saudi arabia comes to canada to study psychology maybe she can go back to saudi arabia get a master's go back to saudi arabia and work for the government and uh as a psych as a social worker and maybe a psychologist like in a country that would probably really need it you know this could be good for her family and good for society and what is she learning about marduk and and the ayathura so so that's a kind of harm like harming people young people's education so that's one goal and it goes all the way up to nazism and even even beyond lying to people and manipulating people that he's absolutely hypocritical he is insidious and um all of his goals he has many he has many of them and they're all malevolent as is he but he's he is first and foremost to his core a nazi an actual nazi and people don't think that such people exists if you add what's the takeaway message from the third rock of world war ii it seems to be that there are no nazis what are you talking about so i just mentioned you know um i am not naive in this way i'm a former political science major i have spoken to and on on youtube i've crossed swords with people who are nazis and neo-nazis today and all my life i've had to deal with communists it's much easier to find an overt communist than an overt nazi at present i think communism is going through a revival of of public popularity in 2021 um so i am not naive that way however you know i i can challenge you as follows has has jordan peterson ever been a member of a neo-nazi organization i don't know but he but his his movement is a neo-nazi organization it's just clandestine so the jordan peterson phenomenon as dubbed by the the media is a clandestine neo-nazi organization many and many of his followers are too dim to realize it and so and so are the journalists and all the other power holders i'll give you i'll give you a contrast all of the things that he said how many nice things can you say about adolf hitler right before people start to maybe think you know something maybe maybe he likes adolf hitler i mean this is like 40 pages of him going on about how wonderful hitler was you ever get the idea that maybe he thinks oh i get it but the counter argument is that he's just insane so there's an interesting contrast the possibility of which is presented by your book and by your youtube videos uh to faith goldie so many people don't know the name faith goldie she's not that famous if you search my youtube channel there is a video i made that is called faith goldie colon canadian hitler so you know so just just to say a little bit guys before we get to the faithful so faith goldie is a kind of white supremacist neo-nazi leader however uh faith goldie conceals precisely what jordan peterson reveals and i would say you know vice versa you know faith goldie would never come out and say the positive things about hitler that jordan peterson says her whole act is to try to present herself as an acceptable mainstream politician like when she's running for mayor so again it's not that i disagree i do think faith goalie is somewhere on the spectrum of white supremacist or neo-nazi what you could get into the precise differences between her and a neo-nazi in the strictest definition of the term or something you know but faith goldie does not say any of the things jordan peterson says and to my mind you know again what george jordan peterson is saying and doing is very different from example so you reply that any way you want to but including you are interested in the connection between those two precise people they are they are connected historical figures go on yes no and and you know that isa because you know about faith because you're canadian and that's that's another aspect of this story is that peterson often mentions canadian neo-nazis but non-canadians wouldn't know who they are these are really obscure names ernst zandol and saint goldie in right people can canada is like canadian mass murderers too he mentions he mentions canadians who've committed atrocities and mass murders and things yeah there's weird canadian cultural references yeah but he does have things so for example faith goldie was outed as a neo-nazi after she spoke to other neo-nazis american new nancy's who worked for the daily stormer and the 2017 united rally and and what she did and this is what the media plays let me just say the audience it was never hard to figure out what faith called except it was it didn't take that much research or imagination but anyway go on yes what she did was the conversation she had was was leaked to the press and then that was it she was outed as a new next she was kicked off of facebook in canada canadian non-conservative politicians in canada applauded her being kicked off and she's pretty much been banished and then peterson had to you know she was supposed to appear with peterson but then she didn't and well you know it was a very tough decision and um you know it's not that she's a bad person she's just too hot a commodity right that's what peterson said too hot a commodity she just she just parlayed with other neo-nazis in a minecamp code in just to mention that she physically went to and participated in the united way yeah and what people didn't get was that what people listened to the recording and realized oh my god that's horrible but what they didn't what no one realized what she was doing was when she was talking to the neo-nazis from the states they were they were paraphrasing and quoting mind conf to each other yes that's that's the that's the in that's the code that's crypto fascism talk about a yearning and so on the the for a future civilization for a a place where their grandchildren can grow up and so on and everyone needs to wake up and this the merit has become like the new berlin or the new vienna or something which is you know well and she she says something like there's so many degenerate and you know low class and vermin like people here or something or something to that effect it's it's straight it's straight out of my heart right and so the media the media got the the gist of it the tone but they failed to realize that this is actually oral pla they they ordered so this is a i mentioned you sorry this this may or may not be interesting to the audience but as an example of that again directly involving faith goldie there is a video faith goldie made with lauren southern and it's just the two of two of them sitting and talking on the floor faith goldie with with lauren southern so now today i doubt you can find it on youtube i know you can find it but it was on lauren southern's own youtube channel like i would assume stick now but in that there's a passage where if lauren southern asks some incredibly vague question like what are you planning to do next like with your careers what are you planning to do on youtube whatever and and faith goldie gives this very carefully worded very slow and meticulous statement about finding the secret connections between things and if you know something about what's going on in the alt-right it is a it is a perfect textbook example of dog whistling or speaking in code and what's also interesting is they're both on camera when it's filmed and the other woman the blonde woman friend she breaks up laughing she responds in this very peculiar woman there's nothing funny about what uh faith goldie is saying lauren southern is cracking up and she has this very strange sort of uh expression in her face and uh you can tell she knows what's going on and she's maybe she's maybe astonished that faith is being this provocative or this forward so yeah there is a kind of game that goes on the internet that way and there are there are cases where you can catch you right-handed the the problem with peterson is he's such a lunatic the counter argument is lunacy the counter-argument you say well yeah yeah to use a cliche so uh he is he is mad but he's also speaking in a crypto-fascistic code and um i've deciphered that code of the child's play too to understand it it would have to be simple to understand um because he's reaching out to simple-minded people it's obvious just just how sophisticated an analysis of marduk can you offer without losing he went higher and higher speaker he organized his people in the state he right i would like i would like to interview you again when i finish the book and maybe that'll coincide with when you publish your volume two because it's he's gonna do a second book but let me let me ask you this to wrap up this interview because an hour is a nice round what is your interpretation of the crustacean mythology the lobster and and crayfish so that chapter or that aspect of what jordan peterson what is troy parfet's view of it well the whole lobster thing is um it's quackery it's like that we are biological you know our biological imperative we're just running we're just run by serentone and he's comparing basically sea insects to human beings so he's positioning his his listeners as basically bugs and they they take up that role yeah i'm a bug you know you want to be the biggest bug in the bottom of the sea boy it's all about biology like the the the biological imperative role run by chemicals and so on this was a who else talked about the biological imperative and so on and um and oh it's it's a straight blend of uh nazi um eugenic speak and warped darwinism and it's also combined with occultism as i said earlier because i think that the idea of the lobster in part comes from aleister crowley's use of the lobster the lobster appears in the occult so if with peterson if it has to do with nazism he loves it if it has to do with occultism and nazism he loves it even more that's that's the connection so almost everyone peterson mentions in his books look them up he's not talking about them okay i agree with that but i want to stay on top of here what what do you think in jordan peterson's mind is the point of that chapter like what so in the same way i could ask look what like if i were talking to jordan peterson i could say what do you expect people to do with this advice to be like the eye of horus what do you expect people to do with this elaborate mythology about uh lobsters and crayfish you know so what do you think what do you think he expects what is the point from jordan petersburg i can i can sit here and agree with you it's pointless but you know he's he's running with some attention for people he doesn't know anything about it but what i completely agree you know there's nothing but what is the point for those people then what is the point of the myth what is the it's a metaphor but metaphor for what for what they've got a lot of those a lot of this is going to sound really really strange this is a very strange story but a lot of the text about lobsters mentions opponents lobsters battling opponents he plagiarizes that from hitler so but of course no one would ever understand this and this is where it all kind of breaks down it gets really really strange he's trying to communicate this really really warped uh ideology this skits through this kind of schizoid loose association language that has to do with nazis and the occult yet his followers can barely spell i mean they're not they can't even figure out basic information let alone a code you know like and so this is where it all breaks down he keeps telling them that they're like lobsters don't you get it you have a biological imperative ascend the dominance hierarchy who's at the top of the thomas harvey i told you in another lecture hitler in other words be like hitler but they don't get it because they're thick so um you know so the whole thing doesn't really make sense we have a lunatic who's speaking to an audience in a fascistic crypto fascist code and the audience is dim and they don't understand and not only that but but intelligent people don't understand uh other comments you know like as i've said like it talks about mythology a lot biology but i don't they don't ask themselves critical questions who are the lobsters who do the lobsters represent why does he keep talking about the lobsters um who's marduk why should we be like be like horus what you know does this god represent somebody what's peterson's aim like even when he's going banging on about like ordering chaos you don't wake up every morning and fist pump about you need to have order we you know that's water you know we need to eliminate chaos what do you mean by order what do you mean by chaos are you talking about people and he is there's a there's an orderly group of people there's a chaotic group of people we need to eradicate chaos we need to eradicate this disorderly group of people who in this case is non-whites there's so there's such a lack of basic critical thinking in the story of baker's belief i don't understand how what i have discovered is not um unbelievable what's unbelievable is no one else has put together the story but in any of it i do appreciate your questions well good look i'll i will leave it up to the audience i'm going to provide a link both to his youtube channel and to the book in the description so as you can get the book and read it now i felt like this book was written five minutes ago i thought you'd written this book after jordan peterson's newest book came out because i do think it is very much relevant to what's going on there and you know obviously his youtube channel is something he updates periodically it looks he was putting up one video once every couple of months so unlike the book that doesn't just sit there in a in a static form you know my concern is that what you're doing is interpreting madness and no matter how finely or precisely you're like you know like if it's just you know what i mean you can't really come to any meaningful conclusion with the interpretation of mind of a uh it's a scary place and i've gone quite far into looking into the dark corners of that person's mind yeah it's a frightening place well look i'll ask you this because okay go on yeah well i was gonna say mistake people think you know oh he's described people can't differentiate between someone who's describing a madman they think that you know they think that i'm the madman you know like right sure i'm trying to explain to you what he's doing but you please listen to what i'm saying but they just think that oh that what you're saying sounds crazy to which i think of yes it does sound crazy because he's out of his mind well so troy the audience doesn't know this about you troy also has a background in chinese studies or sinology in the history language and politics of china yes and so do i we have this in common we have a number we have a number of things in common um uh which one of us speaks better chinese remains to be seen we can have a duel we can start both doing chinese language education videos on youtube and see who makes less money i know but i i know but about 10 years ago that seemed to be the main thing uh going on your life but you know another example of someone who's considered a madman is mao zedong now i am anti-communist you can even see from the flag i have in the background i am i am morally opposed to maoism and uh chinese communism and i don't express against mass murder i have something but no everything i'm against the economics i'm against the philosophy of social even when you take the mass murder out of it i'm a very harsh critic of of maoism and maoist communism however um you know what i found about mao was the more you knew about his particular cultural background his like the the books he read and the books that were popular in the debates that were going on between the age of 15 and 25 for him the less he seemed insane and the more he seemed like a really mediocre person whose ideas were derivative of this other stuff which was it which maybe itself is insane you know what i mean no i just say likewise i think your your your volume one is susceptible to this and maybe volume two you'll go into it or something but you know okay there is this sense that jordan peterson is crazy but there's also a sense in which he's just a kind of mediocre who is reflecting you know what was in the 1980s and in some ways it's really a kind of echo of the 1960s like the real heyday of lsd-infused reinterpretation of eastern mythology was maybe the 1960s but there's this sort of you know second wave of it in the 1980s that he's this mediocre mind who read these particular books and frankly did these particular drugs and he's just giving you this this kind of this kind of rehash of sources that are you know insane to begin with he pretends not to like it he called when he talks about communists he does so as a rhetorical stratagem to link people like me liberals to communists you know the liberals of the communists but he secretly loves communism and like 20th century marxism leninism because it was evil and all evil is good yeah evil uh evil be the uh be thou my good it says in mine it says in uh milton's paradise lost peterson quotes that uh takes that line and quotes it he will be that my good and um aleister crowley quoted the same line funny thing eh and um so i mean he he lives in a cocoon of um uh of pictures i mean next to his desk there's a picture there's a soviet propaganda portrait of five people about to be executed who would put that in their house yeah i mean i think the the counter argument is just to point out that in all of peterson's writing correct me if i'm wrong and in all of peterson's lectures i think he never gives a view of a better society he's trying to accomplish or a better political order whenever he's questioned about that he will immediately retreat to saying the point of his philosophy is to clean up your room it's for you individually to be more morally upright yeah he's not political he's psychological yeah of course this is again just part of the it's just another lie you know and any many you mentioned about it's a very different strategy from lauren southern or you know the other kind of you know crypto fascists of our time i mean i just say it's it's certainly strategically it's very different yeah he's more clever than they are i mean lauren is not an intelligent person and neither is faith called lauren southern was i incidentally banned peterson's power lauren southern was instantly forbidden from entering the united kingdom under a terrorist act which gives you a maybe a better sense of some of the people that he um consorts with you know that he also uh peterson is uh are you familiar as a canadian are you familiar with sunderland of course yes and no one in the audience will be but he's basically canada's most notorious uh nazi sympathizer and holocaust denier what have you yeah and peterson defended him in norway and said that the canadian government was wrong to prosecute him and that the audience ought to be careful because one day the the the the government might prosecute them uh zundel was given two years in canada for being a threat to national security and then he was deported to his native germany where he was given five years for inside a racial hatred against the jews peterson's defending this guy he was all and he also like peterson identified as a champion of free speech and like peterson he was out of his mind but he can talk about ernst in public and people don't know who that is well let me say this though you know there was a long period when jordan peterson's drug addiction was secret and i made videos talking about it and uh let's see this look i'm i'm an older gentleman i have a lot of real world experience if you know someone who goes to the type of dramatic weight loss jordan peterson goes through while having the dramatic change in his personality that jordan pearson went through um there are very few explanations other than drug addiction you know like looking at him before the drug addiction element went public it was like well either this is drug addiction or this is insanity of an extreme and very unstable kind it's very rare to have the combination of physical and emotional and intellectual symptoms yeah without drug addiction but but this is what i want to put you is before the drug addiction went public people were talking about the possibility that he would be elected the next prime minister of canada and i think that was a very real possibility now currently his star is at a much lower ebb i think because of the drug addiction but i can put that to you that unlike faith goldy so of course he could be elected uh mayor of toronto easily he could be elected premier of ontario and again if if the drugs hadn't interrupted his uh meteoric rise no i mean it seems to me it seems to me that real political power is very much within his grasp one day we are going to put someone in charge who is this absolutely insane as jordan peterson has so much trouble that we're not going to i mean it almost happened in the ux we were lucky to survive trump and he might not even be gone but he is so nuts and um uh no he was planning on running for prime minister um or uh at least for some uh some seat or something for the conservative party as mentioned by bernard schiff his former friend and associate who wrote a column in the toronto star saying jordan p you know jordan peterson used to be i used to endorse him or something but now i believe he's dangerous um and then peterson uh denied saying that oh no i'm not have no interest in politics but then of course this is just another one of his lies and then his friends said that he talked about running for the conservative party well i say too like this is not a defense of jordan peterson i have known men of his generation who lie the same way all the time it's totally morally reprehensible but that style where it's it's a little bit of dishonesty all the time and you can tell that underneath it it's not just that he speaks that way that he really thinks that way i'll give a shout-out to another book um you may or may not know this this is blitzed by norman oller okay so i think the quality of writing is very poor i think if you can read german get the german because the quality of english is really poor but this is an important book as you can see i have made my own youtube video talking about the role of the occult in nazism so since you strictu nazism in germany at that time i don't mean neo-nazism today although they're certainly linked and they're both discussed in the video but you know um anyone who starts to look into the occult elements of nazism in germany will immediately say oh but this is so irrational this is so preposterous this is so crazy even just to give a brief example the stuff they say about india the stuff they say about egypt what do you anyone with a high school issue what do you mean at that time the british empire exists in india people know the reality of like you know this isn't true at all what you're saying about india you know so i just say various aspects of the mythology are self-evidently preposterous and crazy in this historical period but a crucial part of the story that this book draws attention to is drug addiction that people already were drug addicts in uh you know nazi era germany world war ii germany that actually what we often talk about as mass hysteria or mass hypnosis mass drug addiction mass drug dependency was uh was a huge part of that yes i mentioned that book in the in volume two and i've spoken to the um the author about really about my book yeah uh but um yeah drugs are yes again the uh isn't isn't it funny peterson's hero adolf hitler was a drug addict his doctor theodore morel you know kept him happy with uppers and downers and speed balls and whatever else but on a mass scale the nazis and nancy soldiers were being given methamphetamine go on yes that's right exactly if not not just hitler and if you um if you look in hitler's table talk which is the book that peterson often recommends it says that he has read repeatedly and calls it amazing i think one of the reasons why it's so amazing is because those red it's filled with western populated speech and he's what you're looking at is maybe schizophrenia meets um or borderline schizophrenia meets um speed balls yeah and i think that's hitler's hitler's long-term drug use and sleep deprivation catching up with him and he was he was pretty crazy to begin with but as time went on you know that worked boring stories about people he used to know while all around him there are death camps europe is dotted with yes it's so incredible that people would be serving him and listening to him and yes my fear are so interesting and that's why peterson loves it it's so complete you know it's amazing what hitler did it's a a huge trick foisted on everyone and peterson is voicing his own trick his own joke on his own hoax on everyone they think that he's a self-help coach they didn't understand that he's a neo-nazi well i would go so far as to say that he has a kind of fantasy that he can be the alistair crowley of this generation and in a limited sense that he can be the adolf hitler of this generation um yeah you might say that his fantasy is that he could be what what aleister crowley thought adolf hitler was for this church is very you know specific kind of view or delusion of hillary let me conclude the interview by asking you if you look ahead to the next five years where where do you think this will go next and i admit i mean with with jordan peterson you know i mean i i i think most of us were surprised he even had one more book in him you know maybe this it's got nowhere left to go but yeah what would your prediction be for for his project what he'll try to accomplish what he's going to do in the next five years well futuroology is a full scheme i would say but um i i would think that millions of people will suddenly read my book and realize that he's a nancy i can go to prison for violating i'm sure the process will start getting next week i don't know like you know his beyond order is a lot of it is recycling like he he says he uses the same phrases so like as i said what he talked about like he's plagiarizing him here here here and just and then but he did that he used the same bit of plagiarism in 12 rules for life it's like he's on a repeat he's spinning his wheels or something i don't know how many more books can he write about my cult and and nazism better covertly and dress them up as self-help books i'm not sure i don't know i have no idea what will happen so um i don't know i actually thought that he mightn't recover from the last his um drug-induced coma and all that stuff but um he seems to be if um to be quite recovered so i don't have no idea what's going on well i just say this we did have a personality on youtube for many years named stefan molyneux now he how quickly these people are forgotten he's now been deleted from youtube he was an example of someone who very intentionally advanced a white supremacist and specifically anti-black doctrine now i'm mentioning that because some some neo-nazis are obsessed with jews and some are obsessed with this but this was specifically about white versus black in the american and canadian context and he advanced that for years covertly it was like minimum a five-year process of of claiming to be a libertarian and claiming to want equal rights for everybody and then kind of taking half a step and half a step and half a step and letting the audience in on what his real purpose is and yeah i have actually made some youtube videos talking about kanye a men's health coach or something i'm helping men and then he would he would try to get men off of women you know like you can't get away from those women you know they're they're bad and peter does peterson does something similar and um because of course if you're a heterosexual man and you have a girlfriend to get married you're going to be domesticated you're going to throw away those cells to crawl with books aren't you and you're going to but i just say with molineux so monu is evil and bad and wrong but he's not crazy in the way that jordan peterson was he had the self-discipline and sense of purpose and so on he really intentionally pursued that goal and now someone who was paying attention could have said at one point if you ask where is this going in the next five years it's like oh well eventually he's gonna kind of show his hand he's going to reveal that this is really what it's about is this kind of white versus black you know and for him it's specifically about differences in levels of iq and uh different which talking about the is jews and so on right and which are the jews that settled in the middle and just settled in northern france and western or eastern germany you know so why is he talking about this it's all uh it's all a game you know why is it talking about race and i think well my point is with molineux that's intentional that's cerebral that's more interesting with jordan peterson i feel like i'm just looking at an elderly drug addict you know coming apart in front of my eyes i think that he has moments of clarity i think he suffers from psychosis and i think that it's at times it's kind of i've looked at him and thought is he having a psychotic episode now or is he on something or what but he's also disciplined in a kind of frightening way uh i would say uh sometimes he's um not sometimes he's impulsive and and that's actually one of the things you know you meant you said that you weren't uh impressed by my narcissist yeah i would say it's one of the weaker elements going on and um you may have a point in that i think that narcissists are often very impulsive and peterson doesn't seem to be impossible he's quick he can be quite in control but i would say that he's also completely dedicated to a project that almost no one understands you know and sometimes you know and um and that's the strange thing that i wish that people would um try to try to understand what he's doing it's actually quite easy to figure out once you once you start to unravel it oh that's what he's doing you know this is what he means when he talks about ordering chaos this is what he's doing it's all very understandable okay the secrets of marduk so look as i said be delighted to have another interview with you when i've read more of the book maybe one year volume 2 is coming out there are links in the description both to troy's youtube channel and to his book on amazon which is it's very affordably priced you can get it and read it on kindle for a song and you know i would say also to people in the audience if you disagree with troy's interpretation come up with a better one you know because i think you know the raw materials of your analysis are undeniable it is undeniable that i mean sorry let's let's just let's just again i really think the drugs matter here all right jordan peterson is someone who recommends cocaine positively he speaks how is it possible well okay perfect parallel he is someone who right up until the moment it destroyed his life and he almost died in hospital recommended antidepressants passionately passionate defender of antidepressants passionate defender of the all the drugs he took himself uh you know biopsychiatry drugs and still this day he has this completely incoherent attitude towards this he's someone you could look at and say well drugs have destroyed your life and yet he speaks about them positive this way um you know at the university of toronto yes right promoted cocaine two students and said you know it's a it's amazing you know that you don't do it it's not strange or something or right don't do it all the time you should be nose deep in that stuff non-stop right and although you could excu you could explain this away you shouldn't he's he's suggesting to his students to to take cocaine at canada's foremost institute my point is you know my point is not to insinuate that he's actually a drug dealer or something my point is that he is foolish enough you know that despite having a phd in exactly that field you know if anyone should know the dangers of antidepressants it should be jordan peterson i'm sure if anyone should know the dangers of benzodiazepines so this is another class of drugs but they're frankly they're prescribed in the same way as antidepressants oh there's something wrong with you oh forgive an example benzodiazepine use you experience fear while on airplanes fear and anxiety or benzodiazepines so it's handed out this way benzodiazepines are currently the most prescribed drug in the united states of america especially elderly people are giving them huge numbers and they have terrible consequences but the point is not that i should know better the point is not that you should know better troy this is precisely his field if anyone should know the dangers of cocaine addiction the dangers of benzodiazepines the dangers of anti-depressants and he knows none of it you know so that's you know to take drugs and he wants them to ruin their lives this is what i said he has multiple aims if he can keep promoting drug use and so on it'll make it easier for him to brainwash them and they in the chance of them doing something terrible ruining their lives is higher and then he wins anything this is the this is the narcissist this is the narcissist on a mission you know of revenge to to for the trauma that they suffered for the hurt and pain that they've experienced whatever that may be in his life you know he is insidious he is evil itself so so to quote your own book troy's assertion here troy's assertion here is that this is evil for the sake of evil a concept that jordan peterson has been fascinated with his whole life and that he quotes again and again from everyone whether it is aleister crowley or hitler yeah so that that's the bottom line for you is that it's it's not that he's doing something that's incidentally harmful on his way to what he thinks of as a as a positive goal the harm is the purpose of jordan peterson okay guys so i gave you guys the links in the description i think you have a sense of just how stimulating as a cross-examination of the philosophy of jordan peterson this is thank you very much for your time troy and i hope to speak to you again