Pseudoscience & the Future of Buddhism: A Nihilist Perspective.
22 September 2017 [link youtube]
Youtube Automatic Transcription
one of the reasons I bring my girlfriend
on camera is that even she could stop but she doesn't have a lot to say about some she jumps in with questions that take the video in the direction the last video I made about Buddhism I thought was gonna be about 10 minutes long we did a solid half hour and yeah I know I know afterwards you said oh you barely said anything but the few sentences you put in actually did help it take on a new direction so for this video also I think what I have to say is really simple but I think a lot of ways the tone is improved by having me explain it to someone else someone who's have been outsider to Buddhism and she can jump in anytime we didn't prep this it's not like I you know sit out like oh don't ask about this or that it's nothing there's no no restrictions on what direction the conversation going the video I made immediately before this one a couple days ago now right but the video I uploaded before this one asked and answer the question of whether or not Buddhism is compatible with atheism and that's a pretty well warm topic and then we gave practical advice and discussions on becoming a Buddhist layperson or becoming a Buddhist monk and what the religion means today a contrast to what it was in the past the video wanted to make now is instead talking about Buddhism and nihilism and is really more explicitly about the future of the religion because I think those are issues that were raised for me at least for us by reporting that that earlier video now I have held back from ever making a youtube video that really laid down the law on how meditation is I think I might have a video that's actually titled meditating I've some stuff that comes pretty close to that but you know there's this demi-monde out there you look like you want to say something jump in oh ya know so I've written articles about this stuff too but I mean there's this whole demi-monde that sprouted out of really really pseudoscience with the word pseudoscience is overused but there is a lot of pseudoscience claiming that meditation has medical benefits and mental benefits and I got to tell you part of the magic of this pseudoscience is the public misunderstanding of what peer review is and what peer review means yes these are peer-reviewed journal articles but you have to actually read them you have to read the footnotes you have to break it down you have to do the work and do the math and when you do you find out what complete it is so you know now first I don't want to do cress too much on the history nature of peer-review I think it is sad it's a big issue think of who are the peers yes are you talking about maybe three people normally one senior editor into peer reviewers and that's it that's the whole process so no there's only one referee and one senior edit and that's it now if you are publishing in a journal of Catholic studies where all of the senior scholars the editors the reviewers where they are all either Catholic priests or very devout Catholic scholars who devoted their lives that's religion you can imagine what kind of bias you're facing from the reviewers in the review process if you want to publish something that's critical of the Catholic establishment or vice versa you know I mean like that very oh why is it people blind themselves they kind of have one eye open when they think about Buddhism this way I think the bias in buddhism totosai is much much stronger you know and I've dealt with it I dealt with that I could now launch into ten different examples about peer review doesn't work with them but it studies but I've never been involved in Catholic studies I'm sure there are people with years experience in that area and they'll talk about how peer review doesn't doesn't work but this is the first thing like you often have a devoted journal which isn't just entirely staffed by people who are pro Buddhist fanatics but it's a journal devoted to presenting pseudo scientific arguments that Buddhist meditation has medical benefits if that specific bias everyone involved in it so obviously peer review becomes meaningless now the type of tests of the type of medical testing involved is very often meaning also give you an example this is a real example that I have been through a pair of peer-reviewed medical articles dealing with where they have people meditate and then test them on their ability to remember a series of random three-digit numbers so like you have a control group you have a meditating group and you see who is better you know over time after several meditation sessions have you when someone sits there unreasonable series number 326 147 you know 928 and then the person has to sit there and how many numbers were they able to memorize now especially when it stated in vague probably latin terms what this what this you know this is a test of increased cognitive ability or something you can make this sound really exciting you know and you're looking at the difference between a group of people who sat and meditated a group of people who did a placebo group who did some other activity now what we what is the connection between this this specific type of cognitive ability and what's actually written into Buddhism as an ancient religious tradition this is one part of the problem like the Buddha didn't promise that if you did this meditation exercise you get better at reciting numbers and memorizing and reciting it's not supposed to make you better at math it's not supposed to improve your memory so that has that effect it's meaningless from a dogmatic standpoint I mean dogmatic that says that are caring about the doctrine of the original religion this is wildly spurious what Buddhism is supposed to be as the Buddha taught it as the Buddha sit down and say the same by the way about Christian prayer like if we prove that as a Catholic if you do some kind of traditional Christian prayer and then try to memorize a bunch of numbers you know maybe it works you know it's been research on that sure by the honor I'm not even skeptical but I don't know maybe when you pray as a Catholic maybe it kind of focuses your mind yeah a little bit better at math yeah you know again the differences that you're measuring are not that big it's not like people become math geniuses if they did we do this crap before writing you know math exams like if it were really effective you know people studying for the SAT and the GRE there'd be okay let's talk about this who would really be doing Buddhist meditation before do they even really know it's you it's this tiny measurable difference and the other point is look it's a false placebo group in the following sense possible savings what you'd really want to compare it to is how much can you improve your math ability if you actually do math training with the same a long time instead of spending six hours a week meditating what if I did six hours a week of training with an abacus or on the chalk board or with a math instructor doing exercises if it's about math ability that's not and none of them want to say another want to say you straight up this is how much people improve their ability to memorize a bunch of random numbers no no it's you know they're going to use some fancy term some particular form of cognitive reasoning improvement and you have to get there right yeah yeah and you have to get in and really read the fine print and the methodology and say wait what was the test what was it test and what was the person you got you've really can't let them get with anything so this is there's a whole literature filmed this kind of crap and even then and the tests that are related to improvements in mood like so they also these ways of measuring like does meditate and calm you down now again that's already doctrinally unsound its dogmatic land sound this the Buddha didn't teach this stuff there wasn't the pally can and the ancient scriptures he didn't teach the stuff to calm you down and improve your bourgeois or existence as an architect or a stockbroker that's not the point of this minute is not what's for them so if it calms you down its kind of nice but you know I read one study it was it was cited heavily in a guy's PhD thesis so I was going through this study and when you compare it to the placebo group and you know these again these are inherently corrupt tests they're obviously set up just to try to prove that put his meditation improves your mood it calms you down and makes you makes you feel better but the placebo group they didn't have them do nothing they had them spend the same amount of time listening to an audio book listening to a recording with a British accent the BBC version of The Hobbit oh my j.r.r tolkien which is apparently it's quite a calming you know I mean it's in the people who listen to the audio book they had more of the benefits of meditation than the people were this stuff you're measuring again like you know it's not the amount of difference amount of cognitive and emotional impact is smaller than the emotional impact of sitting and listening to a good audio book I assume it's gone it no maybe you you know if you like The Hobbit you know what I mean maybe you hate it maybe you listen to the Hobby kind of real pissed-off gun that Gandalf well you know that maybe you feel it's really badly written Isley I mean I guess different audiobooks but but this stuff we're measuring is is so miserable so we're living in an era when you know Buddhism has been appropriated in an ancient philosophy and ancient religion and it's been appropriated into a modern or postmodern culture of pseudoscience that's he tried to repackage and redefine you know what meditation is and sell it I mean people are making money out of this oh yeah what a university or something or in an actual temple so there was no but there is it's as if it's part of physical health for us to sit there for a half hour and say right well we then positivity breathe out negativity right and this this is not done this is not done with comp with Catholic prayer that's also inner I mean you could your gym could have a Catholic prayer room yeah but somehow some kind of mix of Hindu and Buddhist presuppositions about meditation have been modernized and bastardized and you know wrapped up with this kind of pseudo scientific claim and we say it's healthy right I mean I I would like to see studies for you know meditation versus prayer because with prayers you're praying for whatever is going on in your life and you know it's I don't know if it's really those like prayer is worship and so on yes yes right so you know people prayed for your to do well on the math test nice right so like actually somebody maybe you know I don't know how they compare anyway yeah nobody may be maybe first better in terms of motivating you or something you know if it's if it's about you know doing trying your hardest or something you know that psychiatrist psychiatrist not psychology you know robert jay lifton he did some work on that you know like the extent to which people can get themselves psyched up against the interim through you know different types of positive thinking and which would include and indeed prayer or what-have-you I mean historically people used to pray before going into battle in war or so you know anyway yeah the point is this is all on a spectrum of complete okay I'm not telling you this because I think Catholic prayer is good but it's also good I think all of the attempts to modernize this and scientifically rationalize this are a really dangerous form of pseudoscience that ruins people's lives and it's even ruining the religion of Buddhism I mean this video isn't really from that perspective this is more of a nihilistic perspective but you can totally come on and speak from an orthodox tear about it but disrespect and say look this is what the Buddha taught this is why you thought that this is what what matters about it and you people are destroying it for nickels and dimes you guys are turning it into this cheap get-rich-quick scheme take you know middle-aged stockbroker who stressed out and promised them that you're gonna solve all his problems you're gonna stop his marriage from falling apart you're gonna stop him suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder you know you're gonna go into prisons and teach Buddhist meditation of prisoners and they're gonna stop being violent offenders really really you want to do the social science research on how effective that is I mean or what or you're gonna take kids they're gonna be better at math they're gonna increase their cognitive ability like there are people really seriously claim the Buddhist meditation is gonna increase your intelligence and this kind of thing and they'll point to exactly these kinds of studies like oh well you know they're gamma 4 score increased this much and you got to look at the footnotes okay what the hell was the game of what was it actually measuring what was you know okay but yeah and obviously there were been whole Institute set up of this especially by Hindus there have been a lot of Hindu groups really trying to prove that Transcendental Meditation especially had some kind of positive outcome believe me if they could show with a tiniest increase in your IQ like any objective test like that not saying the IQ is a flawless test let me know it is what it is believe me they'd be out there these snake oil salesmen you know pushing that factoid you know any little tiny improvement you in the human mind that's visual so look the big difference between me and other voices in the internet about modernizing Buddhism and secularizing Buddhism and reinvigorating of anybody and the reason this video is structure the way it is is let me tell you if you want to have a break between the traditional and the modern meditation has to be thrown out hey I think that's the fundamental to me most of the people a lot of what we seen go on with the so-called modernization of Buddhism was a recognition of well people these days aren't into demons people these days aren't into spirit possession you know many people aren't aren't into you know healing faith healing as much as they used to be that used to be a huge part of Buddhism all caught this American Civil War veteran who was a huge part of this tree of Buddhism that's right that's right he's the guy designed the flag for international flag for Buddhism and so on he traveled around Sri Lanka as a faith healer novices that was his claim to fame that's how he builds reputation anyway faith healing is out of style demon demons are out of style the idea that there's a giant magical mountain in the middle of the world and the gods are living at the top of that mountain there are a lot of things that are not gonna make it anymore but what they've tried to do is have this kind of you know pared down aesthetically modernized Buddhism that is based on selling you know cynical misrepresent heard me cynical misrepresentations of what authentic historical meditative practices were and you know basically promising people whatever it is they want to hear in terms of the presumed outcomes of this meditation there's a lot there's a lot of cognitive dissonance on this issue it's really sad dealing people face to face on this issue whether they're Buddhist monks scholars the PhD or narrate true believers but like you know I knew one guy I guess I won't name him and he was teaching at Oxford England so he was a teacher not quite a professor at Austria and his position was that there is nothing in the Pali Canon about and heard that from other fuel before I remember talking with actually very senior but it's monk about this and I said why do you think it is that there are these white people who go around saying there's nothing about meditation in the Buddhist Canon you don't I mean and you know the reality is these are people who had a fixed notion in their own minds of what they wanted meditation to be and then when they looked at the ancient texts they didn't find it right but long story short the meditative experience in the Pala Canon which has completely routed to the Nirvana that's this is what Nirvana is in effect on the one hand it's tearing up desire by its roots that's part of the definition of Nirvana that's part of what's supposed to happen with meditation is eliminating the human capacity to feel desire which none of those people at your gym at the YMCA or something they're not going to mention that they're not gonna say yes if you meditate correctly in the Buddhist tradition you'll never you'll never feel sexual desire there's gonna destroy your sex drive and probably food won't really taste good either you'll become indifferent to the difference between delicious and or a whole thing you know food a little taste bland because you will torn out desire by its roots you know you don't hear that at all in this kind of secularized popularized version of it but you do some Buddhist monks in modernizing but as including Thailand's but at that a K but a dasa they tried to put renewed emphasis on that side of the equation because that's the less supernatural side almost quoting buddha dasa word-for-word here to say he said whatever one ignores whatever wants to forget is that nirvana fundamentally and buddhist meditation leading up to nirvana he is a method for eliminating desire that's what it is [Music] so that's one side of it but then the other side of it which again some people emphasize and some people are in a cut state a cardan distance about is a highly supernatural experience of remembering your former incarnations going through a series of hallucinatory states which are all listed off and described in sufficient detail not in great detail frankly in the Pali Canon in the para we can and we also have I mean hallucinations are not uniform two different people are going to loosen any different ways so we also have debates between Buddhist monks who had different memories of or different impressions of these close Satori States or what have you but yeah it involves having visions in that sense which again so my point is here if we're really being honest about the potential for Buddhism to adapt and endure in the 21st century in the 22nd century what most of the other modernizers have said is that meditation will become the core of Buddhism that maybe a scientist a scientist ik version of meditation meditation for a family that this is this is going to be the one element that endures from 2005 and years ago into the next century and that they'd get rid of the mythological aspects I really feel the opposite way I think we have to look at past present future of Buddhism say look the mythology still has value if we regard it as mythology no I mean like nobody's really complaining that Shakespeare isn't true you know I mean like the problem with Shakespeare isn't that it's fiction well it's I agree that what I've read from the Bible is just sure like Noah's Ark compared to something else but it's not even really disputed that Buddhism has this place you know in the world's literature and world's philosophy we've got kind of a space in the library shelf reserved for us that you know this is some of the world's greatest literature some of the world's greatest philosophy but the myth the mythology is just knowledge you know but I mean like I don't think you're gonna you know again carry this on at the future by pretending these things are portraying real historical events you know real magical events or real miracles you know I mean that's that's never gonna endure the weakness of the Bible is I think if you don't believe the miracles are real the story has no interest you know what I mean what what's the point of Noah's Ark if you you know if it's just a story what's the point of look at the acts of the Saints and the New Testament is false for I mean Buddhism absolutely can endure and thrive with the mythology being recognized as mythology that literature being recognized as literature the history being recognized as history and the philosophy being recognized as just philosophy and you know philosophy gives rise to new philosophy I've never seen philosophy and straight-up Dogma you mean with a straight religious diversity up that's the Bible and now it's nobody can add another book nobody can add a new chapter to the Bible right but philosophy is always open there can be new ideas and new critiques and new directions and new discoveries or what have you but in terms of the very messy attempts to separate the supernatural from what's productive and useful moving Fortin Buddhism all of them have tried to save meditation right and in doing so I think if they've made themselves ridiculous you know it's a false first step or then you can never met it's a usurper you can you can never modernize you can never move forward because you're you're really preserving what I think is the most most embarrassing okay so I think that's enough for one video 20 minutes already there's a long history of nihilists trying to appropriate Buddhism there's a long history of books I remember cuz I didn't just look at literature in English there were books in French and Spanish also with titles like Buddhism ah the Neely's easy a teak you know like Buddhism the the nihilism of Asia or something you know I mean there were a lot of temps yeah there was a lot of interest in people in emphasizing so-called existential and nihilistic aspects of Buddhism there have been a lot attempts to try to reimagine the history of Buddhism as if originally in its pristine State when it's first degrees it was more nihilistic and then the the other superstitious and folklore elements were later added on or later accretions on top of a nihilistic core all that's you know Buddhism needs to be appreciated in the same way we appreciate Socrates or Aristotle or Plato or what-have-you it's a really ancient it reflects really alien assumptions about life from a very ancient whole you know the totally different perspective on reality and morality and everything else but in the same way it's not like you know if you're reading Aristotle you find something you disagree with hey forget it you cooperate against all there's what possible good you know one of the exam you know Aristotle's opinion on on the status of women there's actually quite debatable he says different things about relation stream women and men some people feel he's really uh certain on a misanthrope not a miss Andrus some people feel thank you that's what she's here for misogynist idea where I think it's you know but hey what Aristotle says about slavery you know whatever you know the point of reading Aristotle is not either slavishly agree with you it's not to convert to Aristotelian ism or to reject it and say I'm against Aristotle me neither this is why again I'm framing these terms of nihilism I as a nihilist can read Aristotle and find some value in it whether you call that historical value literary value philosophical value you know whatever it is and we can move forward you know what I mean Buddhism's got to get itself into that position and play in that Lane and you're making yourself ridiculous by trying to take things like meditation that were originally magical and hallucinatory and saying the magic is real trying to make it out that these tiny differences in test scores or what have you we are going to preserve that magic for another century as something that mmm the common public is going to believe I am out
on camera is that even she could stop but she doesn't have a lot to say about some she jumps in with questions that take the video in the direction the last video I made about Buddhism I thought was gonna be about 10 minutes long we did a solid half hour and yeah I know I know afterwards you said oh you barely said anything but the few sentences you put in actually did help it take on a new direction so for this video also I think what I have to say is really simple but I think a lot of ways the tone is improved by having me explain it to someone else someone who's have been outsider to Buddhism and she can jump in anytime we didn't prep this it's not like I you know sit out like oh don't ask about this or that it's nothing there's no no restrictions on what direction the conversation going the video I made immediately before this one a couple days ago now right but the video I uploaded before this one asked and answer the question of whether or not Buddhism is compatible with atheism and that's a pretty well warm topic and then we gave practical advice and discussions on becoming a Buddhist layperson or becoming a Buddhist monk and what the religion means today a contrast to what it was in the past the video wanted to make now is instead talking about Buddhism and nihilism and is really more explicitly about the future of the religion because I think those are issues that were raised for me at least for us by reporting that that earlier video now I have held back from ever making a youtube video that really laid down the law on how meditation is I think I might have a video that's actually titled meditating I've some stuff that comes pretty close to that but you know there's this demi-monde out there you look like you want to say something jump in oh ya know so I've written articles about this stuff too but I mean there's this whole demi-monde that sprouted out of really really pseudoscience with the word pseudoscience is overused but there is a lot of pseudoscience claiming that meditation has medical benefits and mental benefits and I got to tell you part of the magic of this pseudoscience is the public misunderstanding of what peer review is and what peer review means yes these are peer-reviewed journal articles but you have to actually read them you have to read the footnotes you have to break it down you have to do the work and do the math and when you do you find out what complete it is so you know now first I don't want to do cress too much on the history nature of peer-review I think it is sad it's a big issue think of who are the peers yes are you talking about maybe three people normally one senior editor into peer reviewers and that's it that's the whole process so no there's only one referee and one senior edit and that's it now if you are publishing in a journal of Catholic studies where all of the senior scholars the editors the reviewers where they are all either Catholic priests or very devout Catholic scholars who devoted their lives that's religion you can imagine what kind of bias you're facing from the reviewers in the review process if you want to publish something that's critical of the Catholic establishment or vice versa you know I mean like that very oh why is it people blind themselves they kind of have one eye open when they think about Buddhism this way I think the bias in buddhism totosai is much much stronger you know and I've dealt with it I dealt with that I could now launch into ten different examples about peer review doesn't work with them but it studies but I've never been involved in Catholic studies I'm sure there are people with years experience in that area and they'll talk about how peer review doesn't doesn't work but this is the first thing like you often have a devoted journal which isn't just entirely staffed by people who are pro Buddhist fanatics but it's a journal devoted to presenting pseudo scientific arguments that Buddhist meditation has medical benefits if that specific bias everyone involved in it so obviously peer review becomes meaningless now the type of tests of the type of medical testing involved is very often meaning also give you an example this is a real example that I have been through a pair of peer-reviewed medical articles dealing with where they have people meditate and then test them on their ability to remember a series of random three-digit numbers so like you have a control group you have a meditating group and you see who is better you know over time after several meditation sessions have you when someone sits there unreasonable series number 326 147 you know 928 and then the person has to sit there and how many numbers were they able to memorize now especially when it stated in vague probably latin terms what this what this you know this is a test of increased cognitive ability or something you can make this sound really exciting you know and you're looking at the difference between a group of people who sat and meditated a group of people who did a placebo group who did some other activity now what we what is the connection between this this specific type of cognitive ability and what's actually written into Buddhism as an ancient religious tradition this is one part of the problem like the Buddha didn't promise that if you did this meditation exercise you get better at reciting numbers and memorizing and reciting it's not supposed to make you better at math it's not supposed to improve your memory so that has that effect it's meaningless from a dogmatic standpoint I mean dogmatic that says that are caring about the doctrine of the original religion this is wildly spurious what Buddhism is supposed to be as the Buddha taught it as the Buddha sit down and say the same by the way about Christian prayer like if we prove that as a Catholic if you do some kind of traditional Christian prayer and then try to memorize a bunch of numbers you know maybe it works you know it's been research on that sure by the honor I'm not even skeptical but I don't know maybe when you pray as a Catholic maybe it kind of focuses your mind yeah a little bit better at math yeah you know again the differences that you're measuring are not that big it's not like people become math geniuses if they did we do this crap before writing you know math exams like if it were really effective you know people studying for the SAT and the GRE there'd be okay let's talk about this who would really be doing Buddhist meditation before do they even really know it's you it's this tiny measurable difference and the other point is look it's a false placebo group in the following sense possible savings what you'd really want to compare it to is how much can you improve your math ability if you actually do math training with the same a long time instead of spending six hours a week meditating what if I did six hours a week of training with an abacus or on the chalk board or with a math instructor doing exercises if it's about math ability that's not and none of them want to say another want to say you straight up this is how much people improve their ability to memorize a bunch of random numbers no no it's you know they're going to use some fancy term some particular form of cognitive reasoning improvement and you have to get there right yeah yeah and you have to get in and really read the fine print and the methodology and say wait what was the test what was it test and what was the person you got you've really can't let them get with anything so this is there's a whole literature filmed this kind of crap and even then and the tests that are related to improvements in mood like so they also these ways of measuring like does meditate and calm you down now again that's already doctrinally unsound its dogmatic land sound this the Buddha didn't teach this stuff there wasn't the pally can and the ancient scriptures he didn't teach the stuff to calm you down and improve your bourgeois or existence as an architect or a stockbroker that's not the point of this minute is not what's for them so if it calms you down its kind of nice but you know I read one study it was it was cited heavily in a guy's PhD thesis so I was going through this study and when you compare it to the placebo group and you know these again these are inherently corrupt tests they're obviously set up just to try to prove that put his meditation improves your mood it calms you down and makes you makes you feel better but the placebo group they didn't have them do nothing they had them spend the same amount of time listening to an audio book listening to a recording with a British accent the BBC version of The Hobbit oh my j.r.r tolkien which is apparently it's quite a calming you know I mean it's in the people who listen to the audio book they had more of the benefits of meditation than the people were this stuff you're measuring again like you know it's not the amount of difference amount of cognitive and emotional impact is smaller than the emotional impact of sitting and listening to a good audio book I assume it's gone it no maybe you you know if you like The Hobbit you know what I mean maybe you hate it maybe you listen to the Hobby kind of real pissed-off gun that Gandalf well you know that maybe you feel it's really badly written Isley I mean I guess different audiobooks but but this stuff we're measuring is is so miserable so we're living in an era when you know Buddhism has been appropriated in an ancient philosophy and ancient religion and it's been appropriated into a modern or postmodern culture of pseudoscience that's he tried to repackage and redefine you know what meditation is and sell it I mean people are making money out of this oh yeah what a university or something or in an actual temple so there was no but there is it's as if it's part of physical health for us to sit there for a half hour and say right well we then positivity breathe out negativity right and this this is not done this is not done with comp with Catholic prayer that's also inner I mean you could your gym could have a Catholic prayer room yeah but somehow some kind of mix of Hindu and Buddhist presuppositions about meditation have been modernized and bastardized and you know wrapped up with this kind of pseudo scientific claim and we say it's healthy right I mean I I would like to see studies for you know meditation versus prayer because with prayers you're praying for whatever is going on in your life and you know it's I don't know if it's really those like prayer is worship and so on yes yes right so you know people prayed for your to do well on the math test nice right so like actually somebody maybe you know I don't know how they compare anyway yeah nobody may be maybe first better in terms of motivating you or something you know if it's if it's about you know doing trying your hardest or something you know that psychiatrist psychiatrist not psychology you know robert jay lifton he did some work on that you know like the extent to which people can get themselves psyched up against the interim through you know different types of positive thinking and which would include and indeed prayer or what-have-you I mean historically people used to pray before going into battle in war or so you know anyway yeah the point is this is all on a spectrum of complete okay I'm not telling you this because I think Catholic prayer is good but it's also good I think all of the attempts to modernize this and scientifically rationalize this are a really dangerous form of pseudoscience that ruins people's lives and it's even ruining the religion of Buddhism I mean this video isn't really from that perspective this is more of a nihilistic perspective but you can totally come on and speak from an orthodox tear about it but disrespect and say look this is what the Buddha taught this is why you thought that this is what what matters about it and you people are destroying it for nickels and dimes you guys are turning it into this cheap get-rich-quick scheme take you know middle-aged stockbroker who stressed out and promised them that you're gonna solve all his problems you're gonna stop his marriage from falling apart you're gonna stop him suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder you know you're gonna go into prisons and teach Buddhist meditation of prisoners and they're gonna stop being violent offenders really really you want to do the social science research on how effective that is I mean or what or you're gonna take kids they're gonna be better at math they're gonna increase their cognitive ability like there are people really seriously claim the Buddhist meditation is gonna increase your intelligence and this kind of thing and they'll point to exactly these kinds of studies like oh well you know they're gamma 4 score increased this much and you got to look at the footnotes okay what the hell was the game of what was it actually measuring what was you know okay but yeah and obviously there were been whole Institute set up of this especially by Hindus there have been a lot of Hindu groups really trying to prove that Transcendental Meditation especially had some kind of positive outcome believe me if they could show with a tiniest increase in your IQ like any objective test like that not saying the IQ is a flawless test let me know it is what it is believe me they'd be out there these snake oil salesmen you know pushing that factoid you know any little tiny improvement you in the human mind that's visual so look the big difference between me and other voices in the internet about modernizing Buddhism and secularizing Buddhism and reinvigorating of anybody and the reason this video is structure the way it is is let me tell you if you want to have a break between the traditional and the modern meditation has to be thrown out hey I think that's the fundamental to me most of the people a lot of what we seen go on with the so-called modernization of Buddhism was a recognition of well people these days aren't into demons people these days aren't into spirit possession you know many people aren't aren't into you know healing faith healing as much as they used to be that used to be a huge part of Buddhism all caught this American Civil War veteran who was a huge part of this tree of Buddhism that's right that's right he's the guy designed the flag for international flag for Buddhism and so on he traveled around Sri Lanka as a faith healer novices that was his claim to fame that's how he builds reputation anyway faith healing is out of style demon demons are out of style the idea that there's a giant magical mountain in the middle of the world and the gods are living at the top of that mountain there are a lot of things that are not gonna make it anymore but what they've tried to do is have this kind of you know pared down aesthetically modernized Buddhism that is based on selling you know cynical misrepresent heard me cynical misrepresentations of what authentic historical meditative practices were and you know basically promising people whatever it is they want to hear in terms of the presumed outcomes of this meditation there's a lot there's a lot of cognitive dissonance on this issue it's really sad dealing people face to face on this issue whether they're Buddhist monks scholars the PhD or narrate true believers but like you know I knew one guy I guess I won't name him and he was teaching at Oxford England so he was a teacher not quite a professor at Austria and his position was that there is nothing in the Pali Canon about and heard that from other fuel before I remember talking with actually very senior but it's monk about this and I said why do you think it is that there are these white people who go around saying there's nothing about meditation in the Buddhist Canon you don't I mean and you know the reality is these are people who had a fixed notion in their own minds of what they wanted meditation to be and then when they looked at the ancient texts they didn't find it right but long story short the meditative experience in the Pala Canon which has completely routed to the Nirvana that's this is what Nirvana is in effect on the one hand it's tearing up desire by its roots that's part of the definition of Nirvana that's part of what's supposed to happen with meditation is eliminating the human capacity to feel desire which none of those people at your gym at the YMCA or something they're not going to mention that they're not gonna say yes if you meditate correctly in the Buddhist tradition you'll never you'll never feel sexual desire there's gonna destroy your sex drive and probably food won't really taste good either you'll become indifferent to the difference between delicious and or a whole thing you know food a little taste bland because you will torn out desire by its roots you know you don't hear that at all in this kind of secularized popularized version of it but you do some Buddhist monks in modernizing but as including Thailand's but at that a K but a dasa they tried to put renewed emphasis on that side of the equation because that's the less supernatural side almost quoting buddha dasa word-for-word here to say he said whatever one ignores whatever wants to forget is that nirvana fundamentally and buddhist meditation leading up to nirvana he is a method for eliminating desire that's what it is [Music] so that's one side of it but then the other side of it which again some people emphasize and some people are in a cut state a cardan distance about is a highly supernatural experience of remembering your former incarnations going through a series of hallucinatory states which are all listed off and described in sufficient detail not in great detail frankly in the Pali Canon in the para we can and we also have I mean hallucinations are not uniform two different people are going to loosen any different ways so we also have debates between Buddhist monks who had different memories of or different impressions of these close Satori States or what have you but yeah it involves having visions in that sense which again so my point is here if we're really being honest about the potential for Buddhism to adapt and endure in the 21st century in the 22nd century what most of the other modernizers have said is that meditation will become the core of Buddhism that maybe a scientist a scientist ik version of meditation meditation for a family that this is this is going to be the one element that endures from 2005 and years ago into the next century and that they'd get rid of the mythological aspects I really feel the opposite way I think we have to look at past present future of Buddhism say look the mythology still has value if we regard it as mythology no I mean like nobody's really complaining that Shakespeare isn't true you know I mean like the problem with Shakespeare isn't that it's fiction well it's I agree that what I've read from the Bible is just sure like Noah's Ark compared to something else but it's not even really disputed that Buddhism has this place you know in the world's literature and world's philosophy we've got kind of a space in the library shelf reserved for us that you know this is some of the world's greatest literature some of the world's greatest philosophy but the myth the mythology is just knowledge you know but I mean like I don't think you're gonna you know again carry this on at the future by pretending these things are portraying real historical events you know real magical events or real miracles you know I mean that's that's never gonna endure the weakness of the Bible is I think if you don't believe the miracles are real the story has no interest you know what I mean what what's the point of Noah's Ark if you you know if it's just a story what's the point of look at the acts of the Saints and the New Testament is false for I mean Buddhism absolutely can endure and thrive with the mythology being recognized as mythology that literature being recognized as literature the history being recognized as history and the philosophy being recognized as just philosophy and you know philosophy gives rise to new philosophy I've never seen philosophy and straight-up Dogma you mean with a straight religious diversity up that's the Bible and now it's nobody can add another book nobody can add a new chapter to the Bible right but philosophy is always open there can be new ideas and new critiques and new directions and new discoveries or what have you but in terms of the very messy attempts to separate the supernatural from what's productive and useful moving Fortin Buddhism all of them have tried to save meditation right and in doing so I think if they've made themselves ridiculous you know it's a false first step or then you can never met it's a usurper you can you can never modernize you can never move forward because you're you're really preserving what I think is the most most embarrassing okay so I think that's enough for one video 20 minutes already there's a long history of nihilists trying to appropriate Buddhism there's a long history of books I remember cuz I didn't just look at literature in English there were books in French and Spanish also with titles like Buddhism ah the Neely's easy a teak you know like Buddhism the the nihilism of Asia or something you know I mean there were a lot of temps yeah there was a lot of interest in people in emphasizing so-called existential and nihilistic aspects of Buddhism there have been a lot attempts to try to reimagine the history of Buddhism as if originally in its pristine State when it's first degrees it was more nihilistic and then the the other superstitious and folklore elements were later added on or later accretions on top of a nihilistic core all that's you know Buddhism needs to be appreciated in the same way we appreciate Socrates or Aristotle or Plato or what-have-you it's a really ancient it reflects really alien assumptions about life from a very ancient whole you know the totally different perspective on reality and morality and everything else but in the same way it's not like you know if you're reading Aristotle you find something you disagree with hey forget it you cooperate against all there's what possible good you know one of the exam you know Aristotle's opinion on on the status of women there's actually quite debatable he says different things about relation stream women and men some people feel he's really uh certain on a misanthrope not a miss Andrus some people feel thank you that's what she's here for misogynist idea where I think it's you know but hey what Aristotle says about slavery you know whatever you know the point of reading Aristotle is not either slavishly agree with you it's not to convert to Aristotelian ism or to reject it and say I'm against Aristotle me neither this is why again I'm framing these terms of nihilism I as a nihilist can read Aristotle and find some value in it whether you call that historical value literary value philosophical value you know whatever it is and we can move forward you know what I mean Buddhism's got to get itself into that position and play in that Lane and you're making yourself ridiculous by trying to take things like meditation that were originally magical and hallucinatory and saying the magic is real trying to make it out that these tiny differences in test scores or what have you we are going to preserve that magic for another century as something that mmm the common public is going to believe I am out