Tearing Down Statues: Mob Violence vs. Direct Democracy.

if you want to know
what i think about people tearing down statues in the year 2020 if you want to know what i think about people burning down buildings breaking windows looting stores covering buildings with graffiti boarding up windows destroying the downtown core of various cities if you want to know what i think about that ask yourself one simple hypothetical question and think it all the way through how would you feel about these same methods if they were being used by your worst enemies how would you feel about these same methods if they were being used in pursuit of political objectives that you abhor how would you feel if they were being used against you and you had to call on the police to save your life to save your community i hear a lot of people today complaining that there's some terrible crime against humanity being committed by the police by federal agents in the city of portland oregon in the city of seattle washington in trying to restrain what are frankly violent and destructive protests i hear a lot of that i have a long memory i can remember the year 2017 when there was a right wing political protest called the unite the right rally seems like a long time ago 2017. at that rally there were racists white supremacists anti-semitic people neo-nazis there were a lot of people a lot of political commentators here on youtube asking why can't the police step in why can't the police do something to restrain this protest this rally which one has been more destructive which one is more genuinely terrifying the unite the right rally or what's happened in portland oregon seattle without going into even other examples of cities where buildings have been burned down so on and so forth which one was more disruptive to use a polite term if you think that what's happening in downtown portland right now is permissible for them in the name of their cause then you believe it's permissible for the right-wing extremists in the pursuit of their cause also if you think that left-wing protesters can shut down downtown seattle can occupy several city blocks of the city how would you feel about it when it's right-wing protesters if you think that pro-abortion protesters can do this how are you going to feel when it's anti-abortion protesters if you think anti-racist protesters can do this if you think it's permissible how are you going to feel when it's pro-racist white supremacist anti-semitic protesters this is not a hypothetical question within the last few months yes some statues of slave traders have been torn down some statues of historical figures who were notorious for their racism their participation in slavery for doing terrible things some have been torn down by anti-racist progressive left-wing protesters you know what else happened to get revenge there were right-wing white supremacist protesters who went down and tore down statues some of them commemorating slaves abolitionists anti-slave activists which which one which one are you against are you only opposed to members of the public tearing down statues when it's convenient for your side are you only opposed to violent angry mobs carrying torches when it's convenient for your side on a really deep level i look around the whole political spectrum and it seems to me like 98 of you people still have the mentality that the ends justify the means like the ends that these protesters are pursuing in portland or in seattle are so pious so hallowed so morally good that it justifies tearing down a statue build burning down a building looting pillaging breaking windows graffiti political discourse the possibility of having a political community of any kind begins only when and where this might makes right mentality ends only when we let go of this delusion that the ants justify the means right so that that's the difference in in the mind not it's not the left wing the whole center the whole moderate middle of the political spectrum thinks this oh well these people want to accomplish something good like the end of racism so that justifies these methods these means this destruction this burning has happened right and it never even occurs to them that at the other end of the political spectrum there were anti-abortion protesters who really believe that they're saving lives they believe they're saving lives and saving souls and they're not just serving the public they're serving god and man they believe they have the most hallowed moral cause you think you think if you make this permissible if you normalize this you think there won't be anti-abortion protesters who have real numbers and real money and real guns you think they're not willing to do the same thing you think we're not going to see anti-abortion protesters who occupy seattle and set up a zone like this chad zone who occupy portland for 40 days you think you think it's only one set of motivations that can be paired to these methods you have to think through how you would feel if these same methods were being used by your worst enemies and don't just engage in a single stage of analysis engage in a full life cycle analysis really think it through over time think about how that changes in society over decades think about how it changes you and your life think about how you'd feel when [ __ ] like the people at the unite the right rally or anti-abortion catholic fanatics when they're coming for you or when they're screwing up your neighborhood when it's even even just you maybe own a coffee shop and you've got to shut down and can't do business because of these fanatical protesters you're going to call the cops you're going to you're going to you're going to be a hypocrite the all these people who today are making excuses for the violence of the left-wing anti-racist protests do the same people in 2017 were saying why can't the police intervene why can't the federal authorities intervene when it was right-wing [ __ ] having a much less disruptive protest and this is going to happen again unrest in portland oregon and seattle washington overnight as protesters set fires and destroyed property the black lives matter march in seattle started peacefully but turned violent as demonstrators targeted the king county youth detention center some used sledge hammers to shatter workers cars they slashed all four of my tires they broke my back window out you know i just got off work i want to go home police and federal agents use pepper spray and tear gas against the demonstrators shots rang out people can be heard screaming in the streets there is an alternative to mob violence there is an alternative to just letting whoever is passionate enough whoever has the numbers and the guns to tear down a statue go out and tear down statues the alternative is democracy i am the last person to glorify ancient athens most of you will never understand how horrible life was in ancient athens for the vast majority of people the vast majority of the time slavery racism and religion in ancient athens most people don't really want to think through how terrible their religion was in ancient athens partly because we're all ashamed of how terrible christianity was afterwards ancient athens was a dystopia there's no doubt in my mind but you know what there were a few things a few things of tremendous importance that they demonstrated for us and they even demonstrated the problems and the shortcomings with democracy for us you can have a meeting at which people actually debate these things openly and vote to decide whether a statue should continue to stand in the middle of the public square whether it should be taken down and destroyed or maybe it should be removed and put in a museum where it's part of an exhibit about the history of slavery that's something that could be debated and decided openly and you could let you let all the people who disagree with each other every political extreme attend and have a voice and you know what a lot of them would feel ashamed of themselves when they actually stand in front of the crowd and are laughed at and the the arguments that they made up in their own mind that seemed so convincing or that maybe seemed so convincing when they were on the internet with a small number of like-minded people agreeing with them that standing in a public forum standing in the agora standing in the pinx really being in the marketplace of ideas and having to defend that in a q a session in a genuinely democratic forum in the context of direct democracy suddenly it seems like their ideas aren't so convincing anymore or they realize what a tiny percentage of people find their arguments convincing there is no doubt in my mind that if you have a genuinely democratic society in a genuinely democratic process today in 2020 the vast majority of people are anti-slavery it's not a fringe issue the vast majority of people are anti-racism why don't we have more direct democracy in our society it's because a lot of us are terrified a lot of people are terrified of what will happen when you can just bring people together and debate openly hey you know what male circumcision did you ever think about it do you ever really think about whether this should be legal or illegal hey you know what cows they don't have sex anymore do you know what farmers actually do to make cows reproduce here's a photograph of it let's debate this there are so many evils underpinning the norms of our society that fall apart under just momentary scrutiny under the briefest sort of open examination reflection airing of ideas and debate that can't be supported that again the excuses made for these things would be laughed at if we had direct democracy if we had the panics the agora if we had that theater of ideas where people could come and argue and debate and you know what in athens they made a lot they made a lot of mistakes there's a great example preserved forever in thucydides where the people of athens decide to carry out a massacre against their enemies and they basically say well if we don't massacre them if they had won the battle they'd massacre us and the very next day i think it's less than 24 hours later they convene again to debate this and they decide they were wrong they sent off one boat to carry off the massacre and the very next day they sent off another boat and tell them to row as fast as they can to arrive before and say no no no cancel the massacre you know you do get to see in the history of athens the disadvantages as well as the advantages of direct democracy and there are a lot of tough questions to be asked about what would really happen in our society if these things could be decided through debate but on an issue like this if you're comparing mob rule if you're comparing this the the process you have going on right now in the streets of seattle in the streets of portland oregon if you compare that to what ancient athens figured out there's no contest the solution to our problems is neither going to be blind rebellion nor blind conformity but some sort of progress towards meaningful direct democracy