Talking to the Vegan Cheetah about Activism, Education, Life (& Veganism)

no I just I just finished writing my
final exam yesterday I still have one essay to finish off but this is right now it's kind of a period of transition in my life so I may get back to the gym I may actually get to work out a bit more than a few weeks but no I've been busy but right now you picked a good day to talk to me dumb and there's a viewer that has a question he wasn't sure okay good he asks will veganism be more appealing for the masses by Oakland openly expressing it and by that I believe he means you know just kind of sharing the reasons personally why like let's say I get on YouTube and I'm like this is why I'm be in this why I'm so passionate about or do you think cold hard information medical information of dietary information what do you what angle do you think dude I guess the question is does emotion really create change inspire change in other people or do you think cold hard information facts about the truth of meat dairy industry facts about health nutrition um is one more important than the other so you you've asked me a question which is an incredibly rare example of something where I can I can quote something my father taught me my father did not teach me a great deal of wisdom life but this is one case where i can actually I'm invoke something for my father my father pointed out to me as a kid I spent a lot of my time going to museums there's a difference between learning facts and shifts in attitude so the point of for example visiting a museum about the history of American Indians your native p people in America is not to load you as a visitor you come to that museum it's not to make you memorize a whole bunch of historical dates when did this happen 1782 1824 is not the point that's informational learning that's learning facts facts are important it's not for you to memorize exactly how many Native Americans were killed by white people and how many died of smallpox that's not the point what you're trying to accomplish in having a museum or a visitor's center like that is to bring people in who have the attitude that there's nothing worth knowing about this topic that Native Americans aren't important don't matter both Americans and tourists you know you're going to get Pakistani tourists going to Washington DC and they don't know anything about any of Americans and they go to this museum till what's what's interesting about this and they'll have a shift in attitude if it's a good museum they'll have a shift in attitude thinking oh this is something interesting and important in the history of the world and then they'll be open to learning some factual information but it depends on on the type of person you know maybe that's all you get out of it maybe you just think gee you know what I thought Native Americans were of no importance and you know now I have some appreciation that they were an important part of our history and that's it and some percentage of people are going to want to move past that into learning facts of what have you and you know now museums today they may not be the best example but i think that's that's a really clear case we have this division between a change in attitude and and factual learning I've been to museums that were about you know periods of history I never heard of before who were the scynthians you know scynthians are people out of Asian history and you know this museum it shows me a whole bunch of works of art and maps and tells me this video oh okay gee you know what decisions I never heard of them before they were important to the history of Europe okay and that's about it I'm not I don't it's not my area of interest I'm not going to go research and memorize dates and facts or what have you but that attitudinal change is Israel which trying to accomplish I think so for vegans there are two separate but linked questions here one question is how do you convert people to veganism okay we can talk about that but the other is just how do vegans become respected as a minority where your point is look I want you to change your attitude you're a meat eater and you may have complete contempt for me or regard me as crazy or regard me as an eccentric or have you I want you to understand vegans are here to stay we're here forever we're part of the society whatever the same way the Chinese are we're a minority within the society unlike the Chinese we choose to live this way and I I want you to have the the shift in attitude where you recognize this is something important you know this is this is and that's me maybe that's it maybe that's all I can getta you maybe that's all I want to get to view and I think a lot of people who think about your own workplace think about how different it is to have a boss who has sneering contempt for the fact that you're vegan every time it comes up or you you know you can't do something or you're doing something slightly different for the rest of staff as opposed to a boss who recognizes you know in that way just this is something important even though they don't agree with it you know this is this is a difference they can respect maybe not the answer you were expecting I don't we stay part image of what activism should be whether it's holding signs in the street like kind of going back to the 60 so I mean holding signs in the street marching um there's a new guy on the scene who's the main portion of this content is him at first stores trying to you know just troll people get people to not buy fur I suppose you know if it's real if it's meaningful to him it's meaningful to him um I remember vegan gains about two or three weeks ago uploaded a video where he was dressed as a slaughtered pig in a shopping cart and went through whole food store um is there a difference between activism and just trolling and trolling for self-righteous regions reasons whether it's you know just to gain notoriety on youtube or just to you know be that clown and um it is that a form of activism in as though at all I mean you've stated in videos before the real activism it's more like getting three four or five guys together on figuring out strategic plans or or trying to write some kind of petition that you could take to your town hall to actually make some kind of difference do these forms of activism trolling in supermarkets which I'm guilty of doing myself and I actually still have a couple of those videos up so I'm not without guilt on this one trolling people in supermarkets or um you know just trolling people had clothing stores that sell leather for it does that really make a difference I'm or is that more of Aegeus kind of a self-righteous pursuit and besides lifestyle activism on YouTube um you know what do you think we as the regular people as individuals that maybe our YouTube celebrities what the hell should we be focused on yeah look you want to make it real you know that's really what we want to focus on well you know my propensity to keep it real a phrase I use too much but I'll give you real um you know we all struggle with this stuff we all figured on our own back when I was 15 or 16 I don't remember which I let's say I was I was 15 you know I briefly learned video editing for the pre-digital in a high school class wouldn't be my first year in high school with the old VHS cassettes how do how to edit video and you know I think we were supposed to come up with a short film project and I had this idea so I'm Jewish my mother is Jewish and you know the idea was really simple for short film this is the kind of thing people now do on YouTube YouTube didn't exist back then etc but I said okay I'm going to print out and photocopy a really simple poster and the main part of the poster was just in big letters poverty is real and there was a wealthy neighborhood a walking distance from me everything in downtown Tehran i was walking desing there just mentioned that could walk I could walk everywhere I could walk to poor neighborhoods I could walk to rich neighborhoods where I grew up in Toronto there was a Portuguese neighborhood over here and then there was a separate Brazilian Portuguese neighborhood down in the other direction and they hated each other oh but I way to say it was in the middle of a very diverse area of the city but I said okay I'm going to go to this rich neighborhood and I'm going to put this on a you know poster it on the electric electrical poles you know like light poles in the street and then you know after some time take a cameron and interview people you know as an art project just ask people in that neighborhood you know what is this really vague statement poverty is real in the midst of a really wealthy neighborhood where you can't you know you can't see that and get people's reaction inside problem and then edit it together into a short film and I thought at whatever at 15 I thought this was the greatest idea I just like to me at my 15 year old brain I thought this is fantastic and also it's telling like I didn't think of anyone seeing it aside from my friends like I had no delete like I didn't think it was gonna play in an in a cinema you know i mean like i didn't i thought i'd show like 20 friends of mine or something the video it was died there was no YouTube whatever but I thought this is a great project and remember my mother's reaction which remember till I die I'm not only did you think this was a terrible idea and try to stop me from doing it but she accused me of anti-semitism she's Jewish it up Jewish she thought this was anti-semitic which any with Jesus Christ there's a real there's debt that should have taught me to expect the kind of [ __ ] reaction you get from people on the Internet my own mother there anyway i didn't i didn't actually do it I didn't do that project but I remember that as like when you're asking yourself you know what is activism um you know what is effective activism I think most of us growing up go through that kind of thing searching why you look I shouldn't even say growing up I think some people go through at age 35 race 45 you know some people some people already have a part time job when there are 15 and they're not really thinking about any of that stuff and only when they get older something happens whether it's a war or a strike something happens that gets them thinking about politics and they first start searching for answers the really so I realize this is not answering your question but but this is all under the heading of keeping it real but my point is i wasn't born knowing the answers to these questions i I also you know looked around for any kind of answer I think what what's incompatible with the internet is that the real answer this question is going to be very local for you every you don't live in new york city you live in syracuse or something right you live in a small but I mean it's may sound stupid but the answer in Syracuse is going to be totally different from the answer in Manhattan you know it's so different uh and you know that may sound like [ __ ] to people but you know the answer is going to be different if you meet five people you can rely on and work with or if you don't you know and one of the guys who emailed me asking for advice on this and i made like a 30 minute video answering his question it's one of my Q&A videos where I just answer one question it takes 30 minutes his wife actually got in touch with me and she thanked me she said you know I know my husband didn't write back to you but your video really inspired him and in the past we were doing this kind of activism that he wasn't happy with and now we're trying to organize this so I know there are some people who responded to what I had to say by really changing the kind of activism they do directly but part of part of the answer is I can't give you and on the internet there is no answer that is true for Germany Spain California that that you really need to be sensitive to and strategic about what are the unique local factors that that provide opportunities for you to make a difference ok so other than like other than social media other than YouTube ok let's just talk about activist yeah a little bit ok yeah I want to jump in right there for one reason [ __ ] you fairly got a question no but look I mean uh one of the reasons both in fitness and activism why it's really important to talk to normal people of a normal full time job is that you know most of us are sellouts legkick you know I live in Victoria BC know but like let's let's get really real about it if you're not one of these [ __ ] like durian riders on permanent vacation if you have any jobs or any responsibilities in life even a feeling of responsibility like you're not really responsible for your mom but you feel responsible it changes your life a bit you know like you know I just saying you're not going to live a totally reckless life for that reason what you know some people they're taking care of their grandparents whatever I mean you know you just have you have a sense responsibility to the city of living in whatever it is um I live in Victoria I'm like a five minute trip from Seattle if I got invited to a vegan and animal rights conference in Seattle would I go probably not why because I have a daughter I have a three-year-old kid who lives in France and Germany it's not really related but it is like the whole question of what you do with your time and what risks are willing to take and you know what motivates you that completely changes with having a job having a kid real life stuff it's like you know I don't want to be a diet guru either i don't i don't want to have a six-pack I don't want a bench press third but I just don't care it's not my it's not my obligation lifestyle mandersohn life but also like you think about you know any job i'm gonna take on how that totally changes my priorities I'm moving to China I'm gonna have a job in China right you know I just say like on that real level once you step back from the kind of internet demi-monde real people do real things and most of us are sellouts you know most of us are neither going to live the life of the you know the so-called lifestyle activists on on YouTube but we're also not going to live this this you know image of the rebel with the black mask holding a puppy you know the anarchists anti-establishment rifle inch most of us are not going to devote a lot of time to doing these ridiculous protests with DXE direct action everywhere like walking into a restaurant and screaming at random strangers you know you can do it a couple times if it gives you a thrill I've talked to several people I won't say who I've talked to several people about this and when I say you know when you've done the same protest like five or six times it's not the same anymore and they interrupt me and say oh my god after a hundred times i'm so sick of that oh I I don't really have that like bitterness or death of experience but there are people who have been to exactly the same fer protest on the street you know 110 they've reached their limit you know so just say like in a sense real life make sellouts out of all of us that's why don't I don't uncritically endorse that kind of stuff I engage in some kind of nuanced discussion of it but you know for me the conversation has to start with recognizing who you are in your life and your own propensity to sell out or however you want to put it right I feel like for me personally um social media for a while has been you know a pursuit of mine and it is important and it's still very very important whether it's YouTube live streaming I'm very active on Twitter um and I do think it's it's a tool to spread the message about a certain lifestyle right now is it gonna really make any huge changes in society I've kind of given up that um that dream or thats a delusion maybe um but I would like to say that you know inspired by you uh and some of your videos from six months ago eight months ago I did go back to school you know um I took school seriously this time I've never received the grades that I'm getting now I did pursue an internship which I got um you know it's only a few hours here and there throughout the week but you know I'm on live radio and i'm editing radio shows i'm trying to move into the TV Department um I feel like for myself everything that I'm doing offline I am setting myself up for being potentially um the most influential kind of person that I that I can be you know like you've said in a video I could never run for town mayor that's never going to happen I don't want the ambitions and I don't have a credibility or the background but I do believe that I'm setting myself up personally in the future um for reaching my full potential as you know an influential person and an influential vegan a per that happens to be vegan so um do you think maybe we don't see or hear about a lot of that but would you say that the majority of vegans are responsible citizens and do really contribute something to society or do you think a lot of us maybe even the majority of us are fame-hungry like course yeah I know to me it raises a totally different interesting question I mean look what what percentage of vegans are our digital vegans I think we both know it's a minority but it's the most visible minority it was the people you can see in here interact with like I say all the time I feel I don't have a sense of what normal vegans are like because I only know what vegans on YouTube are like and they're a very peculiar minority on the other hand but back when I was on tumblr I was like these people can't be normal vegans because the type of vegans who are doing you know tumblr social justice warrior activism is like you people can't be the majority either but if you go to an animal rights conference and meet those weirdos they're not the majority either they're really I mean they may be great people some of them may be terrible people but the kind of people who are these embittered old um activists who spent 30 years protesting against a particular vivisection lab and maybe you have been to jail over it and so on they're not normal they're not the mass market either but I mean for me the question comes to my mind in and listening what you were just saying is actually of your connection the particular place you're living you know I think your view of veganism both digital and real world would be different if you knew for a fact or if you were committed to living in Syracuse for the next 10 years you know if you were going to be routed to that spot for whatever reason on the other hand if you're planning to move to you know Los Angeles or New York or something new york city you know that changes your outlook in many ways for me like during my first year here in victoria it wasn't really clear it was like well i could stay here long term this could be my base of operation and you know I have meshed you I consider becoming a cop here it's one of the only steady jobs you can get with a diploma in political science so yeah I beat up the local drug addicts for a living that kind of thing and I relay to think about that but I mean ultimately one of my reasons for not being it for not wanting to be a copier is that I don't have a meaningful connection to the place to this city this is not my city and I wouldn't you know I wouldn't be motivate I wouldn't do a good job at that although I I think I would be a better cop than beneath the people i meet you know you know anyway I i have i have a set of attitudes that might make me okay at that job but anyway yeah where I was going with this is like you know and I've said this on a video in the past imagine if you know members of local police department fire department you know yeah ambulance squad imagine these people were being and imagine if our local politicians were vegan imagine if our local school teachers were vegan and you know there is so um well right but my point was once once you're committed to a place I mean the idea of being committed to a place is kind of out of style in the 21st century and there's all this [ __ ] on YouTube of being a digital nomad you know don't live anywhere in particular just buy a new airplane ticket every every month when your visa elapses well that's also giving up a sense of social responsibility connected to a place and you know like is it meaningful or is it meaningless to be a cop that changes a lot with how you feel about your city or your town if you're in a small town and you love that small town you care about the people in that small talent being a cop there it can be tremendously meaningful rewarding if you're not from that town you don't give a [ __ ] about these people you're just trying to get a paycheck you might be doing the same job as a cop and have totally different ads utility of a sense of engagement I mean so for me that question of you know what's the meaningful role of vegans in the community I think that really changes with with the community and with your sense of engagement to it like I mentioned Hong Kong a lot of these you know to me they're just bullshitters these bullshitters both digital nomadism of living this nomadic life and make your money internet there in and out of Hong Kong I used to live in Hong Kong I lived in Hong Kong for more than a year I think I forget to think is it felt like a long time I think was born here um there are foreigners in Hong Kong like there were like white people in Hong Kong and there were there people from India so there are brown people in Hong Kong who are deeply committed to local politics who literally who go to City Hall and who are really involved with the democratic process and who are really involved in like controversies about corruption you know corruption in the government and who are so committed who appear on the local TV news you know just shown within the city you know in English and you know involved in human rights trials and all kinds of stuff so I mean and there are foreigners they're not born in Hong Kong they're not raised there but somehow they got a job there they stayed for a couple years and they got committed engage and I can remember looking at those people because I was involved with you know Civic politics in Toronto I remember when I was in Hong Kong looking at those people and thinking that ain't me yeah that ain't me throw this is not my city this is not my fight these politics are not my politics like I'm just a tourist here even though whatever I lived there for you like I'm on this job I'm getting this paycheck and I'm getting out and like like ecological politics in Hong Kong are insane it's one of the most polluted places in the world there's all this struggle but like so I just say like as part of that is invisible part of that is totally subjective and personal and as a matter of your your decision your character your commitment does it make a difference to have vegans in those positions absolutely I believe it does and maybe that's I mean maybe the short short answer that is that's the sense in which I'm still a kind of naive optimist I won't i won't say who but one of my professors he actually asked me not to say this so I don't know why but one of my professors I have a hundred professor so you'll never know which one obviously he's older than me I never preached veganism to him I like you know he came up and we talked about a little bit in passing but he really changed his life in some in some deep ways because of my influence on him and that came to surprise the same way my influence on you came to surprise to me but just from him kind of hanging around me and talking to me for a couple of times I don't think he became a hundred percent vegan but he changed his lifestyle and a whole bunch of ways including that he completely quit drinking alcohol and that kind of thing because of me now you know so if you ask question what influence can you have on people as a university students that's all I am I don't have any you know it's weird you know I I don't know you know and you know in terms of him and what's going on in his life I mean realistically is it really me that was the cause or did he have a whole bunch of other things going on in his life that made him re-evaluate what he was doing life and I you know I happen to be there you know at that time um I think in most cases that's you know that's what's going on you happen to meet someone at a time when whatever they hate their job you know whatever they've got you know their their grandmother just died you know there's a whole bunch of unrelated things in their life that has them questioning what's the meaning of life what what do they want to do I actually to make I haven't yet mentioned Cambodia in this video i have to mention cambodia in every single video but you know there was a guy in cambodia who ended up becoming famous for torturing and murdering people that huge huge number of people and when he was asked in an interview he was under oath like he was in a courtroom type situation he was asked why did you why did you join the Communist Party in the first place like why did you switch sides from in the comments but you know he eventually was torturing people what why did you join the first place and he said you know I was trying to get a girlfriend and there was this girl i really liked and she rejected me you know she she turned me down and then i was i was on my way home and I went to to unlock my bicycle his bicycle it's locked up and somebody had stolen my bicycle he thought that's it [ __ ] it he's gonna go join these revolutionaries in the jungle he's gonna get a machine gun and and so that's the realest answer on earth man that is keeping it real that is the one hundred percent honest answer you know he was unlucky in love this girl didn't want to date him and then somebody stole his bicycle he's like [ __ ] it I'm getting a gun so nobody mean it's like that with veganism also so like I in terms of you know converting people you can't you can't put too much cause and effect position when I found you know when I great ocean me TV him so yeah I think that's a very real answer on before I lose the thought I wanted to go back just to the local level thing okay bread phone on you know vegan vegan activism on a local level as being very meaningful maybe more meaningful than doing social media um so my brother and I yesterday we went to a vegan restaurant only vegan restaurant in Syracuse called strong hearts um you know I was going there hoping to kind of hoping for a different experience than I had no it's not that the food was bad and it's not that it was a dirty restaurant or anything but a walk in there and actually a very famous um vegan youtuber from Syracuse his name is the vegan zombie is like over a hundred thousand subscribers I actually just recently found out about mom that's how big I guess the world is on YouTube but um but yeah there's a guy walking around town with a hundred thousand subscribers who frequents this restaurant so I was like you know let's go check it out Andrew and um I go in there and it's the typical kind of image of what I used to think vegans Wertz the hipsters the gauges the beards it's girls with you know pasty white girls that are not phone at all with [ __ ] blue and green tattoos all up and down their arms people that I would never um you know and just I know I'm kind of making a judgemental statement by by by there yeah people I genuinely don't think that I have much in common with whatsoever and that I um I don't plan on going back to that restaurant I can eat a whole for a lot cheaper and the food wasn't outstanding so yeah I become a little frustrated because it's like the only small little community that I can actually go to right besides yeah but look you may not have even you may not have even thought of it but the other invisible barrier there is drug use right like well I don't even want no no but no but for me that's a huge one I drink zero alcohol i use zero drugs i'm not an ex-addict that's that's how I live my life but in different cultures that's a cute we're very often socialization totally depends on at least alcohol and marijuana may be other drugs the people you're describing one reason for you let me know I mean anyone but for you personally to avoid that kind of company is would be I would think that you'd be concerned about them using you know alcohol and marijuana quite possibly other drugs and if they're expecting you if you're going to socialize them with them or join their social circle whatever to be to be using you know alcohol nor want with them or at least they're gonna use it in front of you so that's also emits a huge barrier for all age groups I mean if you're trying to meet I mean if I look at these people they don't live the same kind of lifestyle I do i write pretty much different styles of music they're probably in two different movies they don't work out I mean there's just it's hard to find my version of veganism which is pretty much gym rat uh going to school you know hanging out on YouTube kind of veganism here in town um and what I'd like to find vegans that are maybe a more like professionals eventually and you know have that that group of people that group of guys that I can kind of count on and maybe collaborate with shore but when I have an experience like that um I mean how do you yeah how does one deal with that kind of frustration I mean is it worry is it worth my while to try to forget about that and and and look past the the initial impressions I get from these kind of people and see if I can build real relationships start hanging out in places like that maybe go out to eat there once a week try to get to know the employees I mean look at me at all I I think when you do it you'll find out what the barriers are I mean look the good news is if you do it maybe you'll at least make one friend maybe you'll make two friends well you know I agree the odds of you making 10 or 20 friends is not very good but if you if you try that's when you'll learn what the real barriers are now I think drug use actually is going to be one of the barriers you encounter where you meet someone and you kind of tie them you can kind of get along to some extent but then you realize what a big role drugs and alcohol have in their lives and you think well okay I got to keep my distance and for me personally as i say i'm not an ex-addict but that's still the reality for me and when I'm in a place like England it's impossible the British are so psychologically dependent on alcohol where they can't talk to you at all without drinking alcohol and some so anyway different in different scenarios that's one but another is going to be politics you know I'm actually I'm very open-minded about and relaxed about discussing politics I can sit down and chat with someone who disagrees to me of a polis I don't need to have friends who you know or denticles me in politics but the kind of stereotypical left-wing hippie is not going to be someone who gets along with me someone who believes in crazy conspiracy theories about September 11th it's not going to be someone gets along with me someone who does not believe in using soap is not going to get along with me I mean these are linked the kind of conspiracy soap is a conspiracy invented by the man trying to keep you down no [ __ ] you soap is a brilliant [ __ ] human invention I mean come on hey sorry I'm Pro I'm politically I'm Pro soap you know uh no I don't remember that but somebody did ya know yeah yeah I know Jim people do know wash and no no shampoo and other other fat ideas here right great I mean this is real deep but it's real yeah those are the barriers people the kind of vegans that exist in my town um are there professional vegans out there I'm sure but how do I find them you know what I'm saying are there people that I can get along with um that either in recovery or straight edge you don't mean how does it it's I guess more of just a question to ponder a rhetorical question but that's that seems to be the barrier right now is locally getting involved you know even just socially with other vegans is finding those you know because vegans are very different people you know we are kind of a minority but there's so many different versions of lifestyle and and personalities um really I feel very isolated feel alone well I mean well I I I don't feel alone I am alone like you know that's the reality of my life like it's just a fact does your machine you know being lonely and being alone i would say what you and I have in common it i think it's an advantage we both have very honest YouTube channels talking about our lives and to me that's an advantage because when people reject me look when people don't want to talk to me because my youtube channel that's great because it saves me time on the other hand when people do want to get to know me because they have a sense of who I am or what I'm about from a channel that's also very positive so you know it's it's a two-way filter whatever you want to say it it can put you in touch with people who who really do want to know you and it can keep away people who don't want to know you I had people back when I first start a major chennai people saying to me oh why would you include this stuff about your divorce and your daughter you know this is going to turn people off and so no I want people to be turned off like it's good like having a self month about my divorce it discourages women from hitting on me unless they really want to hit on me you know it's like though the women who are really interested knowing this stuff about me are getting touched me but yeah for me that would be a kind of a major deception if I just pretended that I was like single and fancy free that I didn't have a divorce and a kid in Europe to me that would be a pretty significant way of misrepresenting my life and who I am um but I mean you know that's again I guess there's there's still an aspect to me that's optimistic that by doing exactly what you and I do on YouTube you will make connections with at least a few people of who have something meaningful con with you and I think you and I are a really unlikely example of that like you and I now our friends I didn't see that coming you know yeah yeah yeah so I mean you know like even if whatever even this is one example there are some positive example to come out of it and look I mean you know again it's cool to what the H get happened so on I'm 37 how often would I meet someone who's 55 or 25 or what have you so there there there are some advantages but look long story short the struggle is real I completely relate to what you're saying when I my first year here I tried to meet in person all the local vegans in this small city in Victoria and so what kind of activism they were involved with and I don't do that anymore yep you know ultimately I felt it was a long story short it was wasted my time but if any of those people could have cooperated with me or there could have been a positive connection what have you at a minimum they could be sitting at this desk with me in a video I could have a couple people come over and film a conversation you know an absolute minimum if there was anyone York walk cooperate with they would have shown up on my youtube channel but sure beyond that sky's the limit yeah let's talk about reckless self-confidence just real quick um you know I myself and definitely guilty of that probably still guilty of that I would even say you know you sharing something as personal as a divorce and you know the struggles of custody with your child um there's a girl in here right now she watches me on youtube and she said that she had just uploaded a video about mental illness perience with mental illness um and you have mentioned before and even criticized the big youtubers for promoting you know there are not promoting but discussing their to their drug history their criminal history vegan gains even made a video maybe a couple months ago about tripping on mushrooms openly promoting drug use and and describing the benefits of a hallucinogenic mushroom experience so is should we filter ourselves if we're going to get on camera and hope to influence people I mean is there should there be limits to what we say what we don't say and what we share what we shouldn't share mean should there be that kind of online personality where you know maybe the viewers don't especially if you have a huge following where the viewers don't have to know everything and the mainstream media doesn't have to know everything you know or should we just put it all out there well look I think that the the first point of course is going to be different strokes for different folks Jason and hania in if I mean they they have vlogs but really they don't tell you anything about their lives not a criticism but really that's an example of their example to people who are highly successful but it's pretty it's pretty impersonal you get to see what eight for breakfast but you don't you don't hear any of this other stuff um and you know I don't know you know I don't know them all that personally but nevertheless I've seen horrifying personal attacks on hannya there's this you know really creepy guy in Taiwan and she stayed at his place like a couple of years ago and he now has videos denouncing her and like really creepy stuff insinuating you know things about her sex life and stuff very hurtful you know really you know for any normal person this stuff is very hurtful so I mean the the risk you open yourself to by having this kind of personal material nature it is exactly that I said in a recent video like any of us if just one of our ex girlfriends came on youtube without lying and just had a rant saying unflattering things in a flattering way like if one of your ex-girlfriends just talked about a bad night you had where you lost your temper without lying I mean if they lie they can make it into anything but just really you know defamed you with things that happen to be true or they're told that a context or whatever you know I think that's that's ultimately the risk we take and and the threat you got to live with I don't know for the people who wear a mask literally or figuratively like like vegan revolution I don't know I know if that's what they're afraid of or what I'm in his case I don't think it's it's for the sake of his career but look I I'm not against people talking about their their drug experiences I'm anti-drug I I disagree with what they're saying but I don't fault them for saying it I really am about keeping it real and I think it's good for them to talk openly about their drugs merits you talk about some of your drug experiences and obviously you're not doing that to encourage people to to start using heroin yeah hey heroine is vegan okay I mean I made a video a few months ago like stay on Iran almost a year ago now about my relapse and you know just confessed my sins i guess and people were actually um they were relieved that when i said relapse i didn't heat on my diet that i had never expected here i went into my arms and you know they were like you're good in my blue pro at least at least you weren't eating pork right yeah right yeah yeah though because I mean this question of what do you call it reckless reckless self-confidence you know point one is not everyone is cut out for it some people are going to suffer some people are not as strong mentally or emotionally they're not going to cope with it and some people I wonder how they do cope with it I am cut out for it I don't really give it down but the second thing is I mean I have to think about this I'm unlike other youtubers I think about it both in a really short term way and in a really long term way uh in the long term it's I think about my daughter seeing this stuff one day yeah and I am the kind of guy like I've had people writing to me saying how the hell could you want your daughter to ever see this about you I want my daughter to know the full range of what my life is like including whatever like you know politics violence you know humanitarian work failures talking about failures in life I don't want to present myself as some great success story you know I've had to deal with real failure and recover from failure and come up with new directions in my life I would want all that to be there for my daughter to see one day uh but on the other hand I've also got to think very short term what why did I come in the Asia talking about veganism the first place I had just moved to France I didn't know anyone in France I was vegan I wanted to meet the other vegans in France who's trying to make those connections um why did I start this youtube channel i just moved to victoria bc i moved back i've been living in taiwan i didn't know a single person here of any description and you know in the short term hoping to meet other vegans hoping to meet other people interested in Chinese politics because i was doing politics of China trying to make those connections so I mean you know and like keeping all the way real at any given point in that story I really did not know if I was going to be alive a year or two down the road I've got a lot of extreme risk factors in my life including the fact that I joined up to sign the army which I'm also public about on my youtube channel like in terms of like really weird challenge which again I'm glad my daughter would know about that one day so look this is really real like in terms of changes I was trying to make in my life like you know I was actually I didn't just think about it I actually signed up to join the military so you know and I've all this all this crazy stuff I mean in some ways my life is staying absolutely the same you know the books in the background changes the kind of stability but in some ways there were like these really crazy changing all the time so like short term don't know what's going to happen next don't know if I'm still gonna be here you're 24 now long-term leaving slammed for my daughter those for me are powerful incentives to be recklessly self-confident to really disclose what's going on in my life um for other people it's the wrong thing to do I know one vegan youtuber here in Victoria he only briefly had more of like a vegan comedy channel he was vegan but he kind of played a fictional character he wore a wig and he did put on a funny voice and he was getting abusive phone calls at work and he closed down the channel and you know whatever deleted his videos for this thing you know so for some people that's it I'm you know there's there's a really simple threshold which is if if I'm that that wasn't even about being recklessly honest if this brings anything negative into your life you're going to show it down well and whatever in the immediate I vegan girl and so on am you know a lot of people hit their limit with it and close it down so yeah that's that's the most honest answer I can give you it's not it's fine man we actually we could talk about anything you want to talk about it no if you want to talk about applying for jobs at starbucks and grocery stores or what but if you know we can talk about whatever it's you know gwendoline as well yeah yeah but look I would I would encourage you that whatever you do do do come on YouTube and talk about it because for one thing it's meaningful to your viewers it's meaningful to you is we need meaningful to your friends right now but it's also going to be meaningful when you look back on it five years from now I don't know I only have a couple of months before i go to China so I don't think starbucks would hire me but if I did work at Starbucks you know well I would really want to come on and talk about that for that reason and again it connects all these things my life clinics to my education it connects to my long-term aspirations obviously i work starbucks the rest of my life and for you to write let mean you're looking at taking these jobs but for you you exactly do not want it to be a dead end job and you do not you're not doing it just to save up enough money to go to Thailand or any this other horseshit you are someone with long-term ambitions in your life so I mean that I think that stuff is worth talking about and again I even compliment freely about that when freely was talking about it was like to be a waitress I think that's great i think that's positive content know that you brought up my boy durianrider um yeah so he's made some wild accusations lately but you do you mind if i share with your sure but it's it's on the internet it's public guess what that's his tumblr page or something yeah that's his blog yeah on tumblr Graham so he well he did make a video indirectly you know saying that you were probably sneaking me dairy products and that you weren't really vegan but now he's telling people on a one-on-one basis that you're uh you're on you know taking testosterone so like well I mean what do you feel about no steroids he didn't accuse me think you saw John steroid it's um you know how do you think that how do you think you know maybe on a one-on-one basis but also with the masses at least on you know his channel how do you think some of these wild statements and accusations I mean do you think people actually take during Ryder seriously when he says stuff like and I'm not trying to throw shade at durianrider but its statements like these that at least for me personally discredits um everything else that he said and I do you think other people feel the same and what do you how do you feel personally about him you know making those kind of accusations that you're using steroids or that you know sneaking meat dairy products into your diet we talked about that um look I mean thing one is so you're asking does anyone believe it does anyone take it seriously doesn't mislead anyone the answer is yes and sadly a lot of those people are kind of victims of this cult and it's easy to ignore those people maybe because they're stupid maybe because they're eccentric it's like who becomes a victim of a real cult anyway I'm talking about a Buddhist or a Hindu cult when you look at you know the type of person who signs up to join a religious cult it's very easy to be dismissive and contemptuous and say oh well this guy's a loser you know he would have ruined his life anyway but that's really not fair I mean you have to look with some sympathy and detachment and who these people are who do take it seriously and do believe it my first video really attacking the diet like attacking freely under my terms with a eat that was a spontaneous reaction to a young woman who had gained a lot of weight she'd gone from being thin to being pudgy on the rato for diet what no no different girl actually so i'll mention more this is actually a british girl but no there's a british young woman but yeah she to me she's pretty much a girl out of our age she looks like a teenager I think she was stole university student and you know so she's a British female she can't go out jogging or cycling I mean you know she's not terribly athletic and the British climate is what it is and she wanted to be vegan but she actually went back to eating meat at least briefly because she was so distraught at the results she was getting falling freely endure mother's advice so I got in touch with her I knew personally some of the youtubers she respected like she didn't know me so like for example she was a fan of Ali Tabrizi the friendly activist and I got in touch with him and said look can you talk to her because she you know she's a fan of your channel and you know can you give her some encouragement reassurance what have you but you know she was cracking up in her life is falling apart gaining a ton of weight as a young person for a lot of people it is it is a big deal i mean you know it's not it has some real emotional impact in their lives and whatever maybe during ryan freely act like it's no big deal well they only gain weight for three years it's only short-term it's only from age 21 to 24 that you were overweight then the diester you'll [ __ ] you come on you know right oh yeah and that's that's completely different from you know some of the results people yet right right right no uh you know but i mean the the my point was that i recorded that video as a spontaneous reaction to her experience you're asking what kind of person takes this seriously she's an example of someone who followed it like a like a religion like you know she chi and i asked her but that she and i eventually chatted a little bit it was like well how did you come to trust these people in the first place and i asked that in the video and i like why would you of all the people to trust with this kind of advice like if you trusted your high school principal i'd say well what the hell does your high school principal know about diet and weight loss maybe he does maybe he's a great guy but like you know is it just because he's the high school principal is it your gym coach a lot of people like you know they have a coach who teaches them how to play football and they believe everything he says about diet he might not know what he's talking about you know why why do you put your trust in in these people this way well you know even just from her own youtube channel because she talks about her life she is someone with psychological problems she is someone who you know I you could see emotionally and mentally she's a bit scattered she's the kind of person becomes a victim of the sort of thing so you know yeah cult leaders prey on the weak and that you like that's not a reason to have a kind of derisively a tude towards the week you should take it just as seriously or take it even more seriously but yeah and asking the question does anyone really believe this stuff does anyone take it seriously the answer is yes and you know if you if you look with open eyes and an open heart who those people are there are certain patterns and you know among them there are these people are just looking for justification to live on a live on permanent vacation to check out to have no sense of social responsibility no sense of more responsibility no sense of ambition if I mean a lot a lot of people got money in this world if you're rich if you inherit money I hope you do something positive with it I hope you don't just buy an airplane ticket to Thailand and check out you know there's so much you can do with your life if you have money so luxury I never had when I was doing humanitarian work in Asia I was flat broke I was I had to worry about where my next paycheck was coming from and I was I was helping the poor I was hoping for himself you know I just say but I mean like I actually don't I'm not a conventional left winger I don't hate rich people for just being rich if you're if you're born with money it's an opportunity to do wonderful things but for sure you look at the influence people like during right or have and and you know yeah it's pretty negative it's negative on the people who either are weak or susceptible because they want to believe it they want an excuse to live that lifestyle and it's also you know a bad influence on people who have psychological problems and you know who are victims of it the same way they'd be victims of a cult group is like I like it that's just from personal experience um I can kind of relate to pain I do feel like a lot some people are more acceptable to you know the effects that you know maybe cult-like quote-unquote leaders have on on you know on the individual logically I myself found you know veganism in general on youtube in a you know I i was i was in a halfway house at the time this was a couple years ago now but uh you know I was kind of in a in a vulnerable place especially socially you know what I was looking for something at that time to to be motivated about to be inspired by so I do feel like me personally I did at first I really gravitated towards figures like during rider and freelee the banana girl and others you know but it did give me that kind of sense of um there was almost an air at a spiritual heir to especially some of their earlier content you know because like you've said in other videos that they're asking you not only ethical questions but um not not only at they're not they're asking an ethical requests but it's almost has a spiritual nature to it you know saving the animals saving the planet and not only that but saving yourself um and just some of the language they've used so I also want to say though some of the negative effects um spilled over into the way that I presented myself on but okay and I know this might sound kind of cheesy or whatever but it was only last summer you know about this time last year and I just got kind of caught up with everything that was going on you know vegan games just came out um freely and durian personally we're proving of my content you know whether it was through Instagram DMS or commenting on my I remember I uploaded a video I actually deleted it because it made me look like an ass but the the title the video was um why my dick is huge thanks to veganism and you know that was one of that was one of the the the videos that freely really enjoyed she shared it on her Twitter you know and um no I again I appreciate um the the I guess assistance that some of these guys have have given me in growing my channel early on but I would say the way I presented myself and just the content that I was producing was negatively influenced by these um you know huge you know micro celebrities online that happen to be vegan so you personally I definitely relate to that I'm something else I wanted to kind of get into as well moving off of during rider but going to freely um we were talking about you know the kind of influence that these people have freely got on a television unused a news tell bread that video yeah i did and i played a short clip from it in one of my recent videos just an audio clip yeah all right um not in the actual video but in the video that she made about her interview um she actually and she's made this statement for and so is during writer that education doesn't mean [ __ ] having a degree in the interview when they asked her about it it was the only time she kind of looked off away from the camera and it was cringe-worthy in my opinion yeah the first time I saw it I felt that too or it's you know could feel the tension you know interesting moment yeah and so we're in talking about negatively influencing people I mean you know I could I could name probably five or six people off the top of my head that have dropped out of university probably under the guidance of tree right well what do you think about that like these huge vegan youtubers um you know promoting the idea that it's okay to uh drop out of school and pursue social media stardom and you know uh ride a bike and eat fruit all day I mean what what do you think about that and do you think do you think those kind of sentiments are going to hurt um at least the people that are on YouTube the vegans that are on YouTube do you think it's gonna hurt our position or our cause you know five years down the line ten years online when you have hundreds of thousands of vegan YouTube channels that all have a thousand subscribers and nobody has any diplomas or any kind of education or no career paths or anything like that well look um there are three very powerful incentives here that are different from most cults money sex and fame like if you get involved with Buddhism not much money not much sex stuff like no Fame like you know most religious groups girl groups they can't offer you much of those three things and the powerful incentive that's driving people to basically become freely clones is that promise money sex fame and the money I mean here you should never underestimate this is the importance of money in life have you heard of money a lot of people like it oh yes you know I don't know why it's it's really popular with the kids these days but I mean I i also have seen Sarah I don't fall the channels because they're extremely boring to me but you know several these people who did self-righteously drop out of university and thanked you know the influence of free land during writer for inspiring them to do so or you know at least the fount of justification doing so and where they explicitly articulate that they're now going to become full-time vegan activists and by activists they mean filming their breakfast they mean uploading a video of hi no just getting my nails done you know this is not i mean when i think of full-time vegan activist what image do I have my mind not this kind of you know lifestyle activism but that they're going to do that as their primary source of income or is their only source of income and no actually it's it's even more we're talking but when it's only primary so you know someone like Brianna fruit jackfruit son you know just as an example comes my tub my head I have heard her mention that she works a number of really low level jobs like you know being a waitress or a cashier this kind of thing which I'm not hating I just mentioned it I may be doing that kind of work for a couple of months myself between the end of the semester and when I start my job in China I'm not a snob about that but um you know I think there is a real question for any of these people including Briana don't you have any ambition in life you know like I'm familiar with this stuff because of my background with Buddhism like in Buddhism one of the problems you have to address is you literally have to tell people you know the point of Buddhism is not for everyone to quit their job become a Buddhist monk it's not I can understand why you'd think that but like the point of Buddhism is not for everyone to meditate or for everyone to live in a save some people are going to be medical doctors and some people are going to be soldiers in the army and actually when you know tear about a Buddhism it's interesting because its anti-violence but they really encourage people to join the army and and pursue that as a career and so on and they encourage people afterwards to get rid of their bad karma through different means as well they get it both ways but I just say that that kind of ambition in life whatever you want to be a soldier you want to be a doctor you you know you want to do something whether it's out of personal Drive ambition to be someone out of a sense of social responsibility and engagement why would you want to be a bum you know living in and out of a cheap hostel in Thailand you know working crappy short-term jobs out of the back of a restaurant and chasing youtube fame and even if you do want to do that where are you going to be five years from now or 10 years from now a very small number of people are going to earn the kind of money during writer earns I don't even know how much money earns but apparently he covers his rent at least the vast majority are not but whether or not you do I mean I find that saddening in many different ways as you know I mean other people might know I'm not someone who's motivated by money in life what I'm talking about ambition i'm not i'm really not talking about financial ambition or the finite the money is not the reason well i think that's important but some but even so if you're going to remain financially desperate in your 30s and your 40s if you're destroying your long-term earnings ability now yeah those are serious decisions that have really really serious long-term consequences and in some ways it's different from any cult that's that's existed before but in some ways it's more powerful than it called because like what what people what anything people will do anything for money and if they won't do it for money they'll do it for sex and if they won't do it for sex they'll do it for fame so that's that that's a really powerful cocktail well are you moving away from the financial instability omelets let's go back to fame or just get your name or your face out there I you know freely may not be a you know poverty stricken obviously yeah for her to get on you know national television show in Australia with no credentials um and you know kind of dodging some of the questions where she did don't don't you think the lack of credibility um really shows especially with the mainstream media I mean a lot of people want to say oh well mainstream media doesn't matter you know you YouTube's the future internets the future but the truth is the main sources of media is still television and radio and legitimate sources online um so when when a figure like freely gets on I'm kind of in my opinion blundering certain aspects of that interview I mean how does the public see that I mean it she could be super famous super rich it could be anybody but if you if you are deemed incredible by um you know the masses in australia or america I mean doesn't that pose sort of a problem because then it's like you're only preaching to the choir on your YouTube channel if you can't really translate that message over um because maybe your lack credibility or your extreme statements whatever um you know doesn't that really pose a problem for people yeah I mean look you know who is the mass market it's definitely been crucial for freely that she got covered by mainstream newspapers she's had newspaper articles do feature stories on her she's appeared on television and so on and that's not going to happen to everybody has ever called happy healthy vegan they also did a mainstream TV spot you know I'm happy for them i mean good for the obviously on some level I'm happy for actually didn't I if you're talking about the doctors Yeah right right right it it didn't go right yeah it's kind of [ __ ] yeah right a lot of these vegan youtubers they make national news or whatever but you know you tend to read the stories or watch the interviews and it's you know it's always with the angle of this extreme diet the heat of 30 bananas a day you know I mean that's it does that look good for us and for promoting veganism the only well-balanced diet none of it looks good but me I don't know does the but like another question does Beyonce look good you know like really I mean duh he's not making statements that she's trying to say well she she kind of did for like one week I mean yeah no I mean that's that's that's why I say like I mean those are open questions for sure but I mean you know I think the other thing about about mainstream media or let's just say old-fashioned media I think it's also way more humbling like these people who come on youtube and other new media you get to set the rules you get to speak the audience you want to speak to you get to delete any comments and pluck any users you don't like and that's it if you go to a newspaper you have to work with an editor you have a relationship of authority and they're gonna tell you what they want you to write about etc you've got to work to spec you've gotta you know produce for somebody who's your boss and you gotta produce for an audience and you got to satisfy the advertisers you know preparing media for television radio etc there are all these things that are basically like limits on your ego trip that filters yeah yeah but also I mean you know it's asking you to step up so I used to be an editor in the nonfiction book industry and I remember this author came to us so you know I was employed by a company that published books I'm not the CEO of that company obviously but I was I was an editor and this guy complained to me he said well you know I would make more money if I published this book as a series of 30 newspaper articles like if you broke it into pieces method and I said to him yes but that would be more than 60 times as much work i said i encourage you to do that but I'm hat i said if this book comes out of 60 newspaper articles i'm happy for you but that that's going to take ten years hook and again every single one of those articles you're going to have to go to the editor and the editor for that section and do it now again that can be educational you can learn a lot doing that as an author it can also be frustrating you can hate your boss and the old fashioned comic books roll about that you know spider-man you know back in the 1960s he worked at a newspaper and he hated his boss and you know these questions of the editorial bias of the news paper and struggling inside it that used to be what comic books like spider-man and Superman were about these days I don't know spider-man should switch to running his own blog or something right um none of that really makes sense anymore but I think that's also an interesting component of it is that veganism as something that's um sprouting from you know the new generation of media is is lacking that education experience um right now I'm just doing the internship and going to school my goal is be employed at the end of the semester which is another month away um I don't really see any other um any other option so I'm gonna have to you know kind of buckle down I have been applying and I've even been going to interviews but as your viewers of my viewers know my criminal background is causing quite it's it's quite a hurdle to overcome yo when they ask me can you explain what happened it's it's not it look good you know but i mean the the hilarious thing is man let me tell you i have zero criminal background not and i and i got the certificate from the government you could pay money to get a piece fair with you ever saying you have no I've got that oh but people still treat me like [ __ ] and people don't want to give me a job give a chance nervous I mean I get to see it from the other side I have a totally respectable CV but I mean nobody wants to give me a job either so it's got any excuse I may be so i just mentioned i do have now I have a job lined up in China and the employer tells me that's a hundred percent certain however nothing in China is is a hundred percent until you're there like like they're being honest with me it's just like I would say it's ninety-five percent certain like there's still a kind of five you know I mean son of a five percent chance that the last minute they could write and say look we got to cancel everything for whatever reason um yeah also i'll come back to just one sec but actually i am for the sake of honor at least because it's not really economical necessary i think i am going to go out and apply for some real Joe jobs like working at Starbucks or working at the grocery store just for the couple of months between now and going to China wish again from Eli it's kind of an honor thing it's kind of like you know because financially it's kind of showing respect for my parents showing respect for my obligation to my own daughter it's like even though I've only got a couple of months between now and when that job starts in China like to me that that seems like the thing to do again really in terms of honor because what like the salary I'm going to earn from a couple of months of job what that is is almost nothing but um how will your you know upload schedule be affected by living in China yeah it may it may be totally cancelled we'll see and also hey I make it to go visit I get bigger to go visit Joe best in shape I yeah yeah my homie Joe best man uh we can we conform the fat bald vegan club man oh but he stopped calling himself vegan oh I'm sorry I forgot he stopped using the term vegan for himself it's really too bad yeah he just he made video saying he like regrets ever calling himself a vegan because vegans are so judgmental and don't get along with him or what oh oh I feel so bad for you Hey durianrider says someone's right right right anyway but yeah if I do go back and forth drinkin ving and and Shang Meyer something I can upload their from Thailand but if you check Wikipedia there's a wikipedia page called list of websites banned in China and Facebook is banned YouTube has banned google is banned gmail is banned so stringing out with me I I doubt it but anyway the question be can I once in a while upload once I'm inside mainland China because people do we'll see but yeah it's possible that i'll have a period of being a lot more quiet on the internet and you know maybe people have to check my blog for updates and text and everything but even even my blog is run by google corporation so that even that is blocked in china because everything owned by google is blocked in china so yeah so long the white pariah she's cooking and much as my channel I'm not on youtube i'm on a different app but she wants to know can you tell izel to open up some line of communication how do we get in there's no comment section yeah if you want to explain sure sure I'll just I'll just give really sure though my my email has been public all this time if you put into Google izel mazhar email you'll get my email address right away my name plus the word email a whole bunch of websites WWI so laser comm my own website gives you my email it always has and there's a video on my channel called why are there no comments below your YouTube videos that gives an explanation and also in the description points out anyone who wants to talk to me can send me an email anytime so I've had my email open to public and I do get really substantive I've already mentioned some of this conversation I do get meaningful communication for my audience and I do write back to them and and one of the differences is when people write to me they're writing to me they're not trying to get attention from everyone else in the comments section it's not a public display it's a private communication there are a lot of things that change you know when you shift between those two there's a difference between two men standing alone having a fistfight and a crowd of people cheering them on some you know even when it's people who are hostile towards me or what have you I think that's that's very different and again at this time in my life like this semester I have really been able to have quality interactions with people if I get a full time job or once I moved to China that'll change you know I can't I can't promise to be there always but sure during this during this last few months when my number of open have been really increasing of a huge number of people writing in with letters of appreciation or specific reflections on how my content has changed their life what have you and you say not not an ego trip but for me again it's it's the quality of influence not the quantity back when my youtube channel was talking more of a Buddhism I got you know emails from people about how I had really changed their life where I'd really had a huge impact and change their direction in life in a big way and for me that's not an ego trip but yes whether even I mean back when i did my critique of direct action everywhere the first critique I think that right away it reached about 800 people but direct action everywhere themselves saw it shared the link it reached the right 800 people it reached exactly the 800 people who were involved in los angeles and in northern california and in chicago it reached everyone involved with the ACA saw it they responded to it what have you to me that's meaningful you know and I I'm not chasing an audience of 50,000 people who've never heard of DX e or don't know what veganism is and wouldn't appreciate that's just not the nature of the content it's um it's something more deep and specialized and I'm really privileged to have had that that interaction with with my audience however small that audience is and I even felt that way back when back when I was doing but ism back I was doing you know Southeast Asian Studies back you know I was a nobody i'm still a nobody but you know i was i was able to communicate with you know leading scholars in the field from a very early stage just thanks to email thanks to the drink communication so you know again in terms of YB recklessly honest and so on my reckless honesty has been you know rewarded in life and yes there have always been people who hate me on the internet always like even back when I was just writing about Buddhism there people who respond to what I do with intense hatred and stalker behavior and what have you um you know but I can tell you for me it's worth it you want to end there yeah I really appreciate your time and appreciation that's too but yeah now cool man I see I'm I'm happy to talk to any time we can maybe we can both talk about working at Starbucks sometime you know doesn't doesn't have to be about veganism cool abolish Yale it's so easy to spell you'll find a no problem ah bah the shell